From spector@calumet.purdue.edu Tue Oct 1 12:13:47 1996 X-NUPop-Charset: English Date: Sun, 29 Sep 1996 13:10:24 -0600 (CST) From: "Alan Spector" Sender: spector@calumet.purdue.edu Reply-To: spector@calumet.purdue.edu To: revs@csf.colorado.edu Subject: Fw: SPLC >From Alan Spector, REVS Editor: The following message is forwarded from another network. It is relevant to current discussions taking place on REVS. Forwarded message follows: ------------------------------ From: dhenwood@panix.com (Doug Henwood) Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1996 14:23:24 -0500 To: PROGRESSIVE SOCIOLOGISTS NETWORK Subject: SPLC Coincidentally, the new issue of Counterpunch (202-986-3665) just arrived in my mailbox, with a followup to their May 15 story on Morris Dees and the Southern Poverty Law Center. Most of the article is a rebuttal of SPLC's rebuttal of the original, but a couple of salient points: * I forgot to mention that the SPLC shuns death penalty cases, along with job and housing discrimination cases. SPLC denies that this is for fundraising reasons, a denial that "amused" the ex-SPLC staffer whom Dees fired. * SPLC supported the nomination of one Ed Carnes for a federal judgeship. Carnes was a former Alabama prosecutor who is an enthusiastic supporter of the death penalty. * I erroneously said that the Center filed only about 12 cases a year. I quote from Counterpunch: "[T]he center filed only 12 lawsuits between October 1989 and Decembe 1994, a period during which it had raised some $50 million." In contrast, Stephen Bright's Southern Center for Human Rights is currently handling 50 death penalty cases on a $600,000 annual budgtet, only about a third the SPLC's annual budget. * In 1994, the most recent year for which IRS filings are available, the SPLC had revenues of $17.2 million, and spent $1.6 million on litigation. Doug -- Doug Henwood Left Business Observer 250 W 85 St New York NY 10024-3217 USA +1-212-874-4020 voice +1-212-874-3137 fax email: web: ========================================================================= From LUUKKA@Sato.Helsinki.FI Tue Oct 1 04:29:32 1996 From: "Panu Luukka" Organization: University of Helsinki To: Tore.Bjorgo@nupi.no, revs@csf.colorado.edu Date: Tue, 1 Oct 1996 13:31:53 EET DST Subject: Re: Milton Kleim: FORMER White Nationalist proposes researc Dear Everybody, Sorry about the long message. I am a graduate student from University of Helsinki, Finland and I am doing my master thesis about the extreme right wing movements in the USA. Because of the lack of funding and unfortunate distance between me and object of my study I have been using Internet as tool to gather information. >From Internet I've learned a lot, both good and bad. Not to mention that I've "seen" lots of people come and go. Two of the most "brilliant" and "dangerous" of these net-persons were Mr. Milton Kleim Jr. and Mr. Ronald Schoedel III. People who don't know Mr. Kleim's and Mr. Schoedel`s work let me enlighten You a bit. Mr. Kleim was _THE Net Nazi #1_ (even though he used that phrase himself). Mr. Kleim was one of the chief strategists of the White Nationalist - movements use of the USENET. His essey "The Strategy and Use of the Usnet" was spread very widely in the Web by Ultras (to use Mr. Crawford Kilian's phrase). Some of his other esseays could also be found from quite many pages in the Web, for example from Don Black's _Stormfront_ webpage, which is the most influential White Nationalist page in the Web. Despite of his young age (25) he already had a name in the Movement. Without a doubt he did not only have a name, but a future in the movement. BUT he changed the course of his ship! God only knows the real motives behind Mr Kleim's resignation from the movement (Why do we always question them). Anyway, I am glad as hell that he did. He still might be racist or whatever, but he is willing (and fighting) to bring down the hate movement. What comes to Mr. Schoedel he was the brains behind one of the most impressive hate-pages in the Web, the Christian Identity On-line. It was well written and it had VERY impressive outlook a real tool of recruitment! Some time ago Mr. Schoedel also left the movement. He is 20 years old and would also have had a "bright" future inside the movement. But he said "no" to movement and has been speaking against it ever since. I am not a person to speak about Mr. Schoedel's motives, but as with Mr. Kleim I am glad that he got out. I am not only glad for them, but for us also because the movement lost two smart persons. I've been on this list for a while. When I first saw Mr. Kleim's message and his statements about the ADL and SPLC I felt sorry for him: "Shhhhh! This is not the right forum to talk about the ADL et al." I felt sorry for Mr. Kleim, because I was sure that his important message would be forgotten and his non-PC statements about the Watchdog-organizations would be used to throw mud at him and call him the "wannabe Duke". When Prof. Rodney Coates' reply to Mr. Kleim's statement came, my nightmare seemed to come true. BUT, few days passed and the response to Mr. Kleim's suggestion changed. Thanks to Prof. Stephanie Shanks-Meile and Prof. Tore Bjorgo. This list still IS worth of subscribing. Here is willingness to DISCUSSION and tolerance to different opinions. Let's honour Mr. Kleim's right to opinion and let's not judge him by his past. Mr. Kleim touched a tender spot in the hate-group researcers collective body: What motivates and how objective is the research done by the Watchdog organisations. I think the subject is worth of more disscussion. With Best Wishes, Panu Luukka panu.luukka@helsinki.fi From coatesrd@casmail.muohio.edu Tue Oct 1 07:45:01 1996 Date: Tue, 01 Oct 1996 09:43:55 -0400 From: "Rodney D. Coates" Reply-To: coatesrd@casmail.muohio.edu Organization: Miami University To: LUUKKA@Sato.Helsinki.FI Subject: Critical response and concern References: <7089BCC2559@sato.helsinki.fi> Critical response and concern: I have been called into question by those who think that I have prejudged Mr. Milton Kleim and his conversion. Perhaps a little bit of personal history will help you to understand my concern and my critical response. I was born in Mississippi. One of my earliest memories was being awakened early one morning to screams of fire. Our house was in flames and on the front yard there was a burning cross. The perpetrators of this deed was never found. My parents, fearful of a repeat performance, moved to the St. Louis area. This memory lives with me and causes me to be critical of all forms of hatred, particularly racial hatred. Now I know that this is my personal baggage..but it is real nevertheless. Before I proceed let me ask some questions: If a seriel rapists were to suddenly change and present themselves to a group of women what do you think they're initial response would be to the new person before them. If a seriel child molester were to suddenly change and present themselves to a group of parents what do you think they're initial response would be to the new person before them? If a former nazi were to suddenly change and present themselves to a group of Jews what do you think they're initial response would be to the new person before them? So before my concern and critical response to Mr. Kliem's conversion be dismissed as a knee-jerk reaction..consider my baggage... I have not condemned Mr. Kleim, far from it..I have put my baggage in the closet..but I have not put away my critical concerns. If indeed we are to have a open discourse....it should be open..So if my comments as our collegue from Helsinki are chilling..remember that they are open and this is the forum for such openess, critical reasoning, and a place where we can freely express our concerns. peace out..in love.. rodney coates director of black world studies miami university oxford, ohio From eblair@softcom.net Tue Oct 1 12:30:05 1996 Date: Tue, 01 Oct 1996 11:22:25 -0700 To: coates@casmail.muohio.edu From: "Milton John Kleim, Jr." Subject: Professor Coates' poem >Will it Last? > rodney c///96 >Stranded souls on the sea of time >drifting to nowhere fast. >Hating others a way of life >seeking redemption in their pain. >Desperately wanting to be somebody >distorted lies destroying life. >Guilt soaked conscious pleas >for another=C6s demise. >Hoping every day=20 >that they just go away. >Twisted psyche submerged >pride masking self insecurity. >Strangers targeted cause they=C6re different >neighbors suspect cause they=C6re new. >Cloaked behind pseudo-science >strained through distorted minds. >Reaching deep within the madness >hate the tool of choice. >Though we wait and wonder >when your change will come. >When you change will it be forever >or just another ploy? >We=C6ve played this game too long it seems >and question why we play. >And so my friend a convert now >seeking forgiveness and sanity. >We sat aside your evil deeds >and welcome you back to humanity. >Forgive us if still we question >and wonder if it lasts. >"When those who hate knock at our door, how should we answer? When >those that love war become tired of killing, can they learn to love >love? And when those who live just for destruction, can they learn >to create anew?" (questions from the unwritten book of life/rodney >c..//96) Dear Professor Coates & friends: Thank you, Prof. Coates for this piece. It is most appreciated, and is a very artistic piece speaking about issues of importance to both of us. Indeed, how long will my departure from my "previous lifestyle" last? Forever, I hope. My challenge is in identifying those traits in me, as well as the social environmental factors which elicit negative responses from my psyche, and then overcoming them permanently with reason and humanistic feelings. I realize I have negative traits, as we all do, some having more harmful shortcomings than others. I will reply to Prof. Coates' short autobiographical explanation of his feelings, and also offer some more thoughts on my sitatuation as well. -- Milton John Kleim, Jr. From eblair@softcom.net Tue Oct 1 12:42:06 1996 Date: Tue, 01 Oct 1996 11:22:43 -0700 To: coatesrd@casmail.muohio.edu From: "Milton John Kleim, Jr." Subject: Re: Critical response and concern Rodney Coates writes: >I have been called into question by those who think that I have >prejudged Mr. Milton Kleim and his conversion. Perhaps a little bit of >personal history will help you to understand my concern and my critical >response. > I was born in Mississippi. One of my earliest memories was being >awakened early one morning to screams of fire. Our house was in flames >and on the front yard there was a burning cross. The perpetrators of >this deed was never found. My parents, fearful of a repeat performance, >moved to the St. Louis area. This memory lives with me and causes me to >be critical of all forms of hatred, particularly racial hatred. >Now I know that this is my personal baggage..but it is real >nevertheless. Indeed it is, and I think it helps me to understand why I thought you overreacted to my post. Perhaps it is my place to extend YOU an apology. "Personal baggage" is not an excuse for action, but one's past IS an understandable reason for emotional reaction. I have my own personal baggage, as well, and while I in now way intend it as an excuse, I believe it helps people to understand who am I and why I was what I was, and to a certain degree still am. I've been reading Professor Ezekiel's excellent work since yesterday afternoon, and am impressed and moved by his artistry in making the feelings of both himself and his subjects come to life in words. He helps people to understand that we racists are human, despite our terribly negative shortcomings. I believe Prof. Coates latest poem also shows he understands this well, too. When I was little, I still have the fond memories of playing with kids of various racial backgrounds. In Sacramento, when my family would go shopping in the largely Black areas of the south, I often would play in the store with African-American kids. One of my best friends in my youth was half Japanese. We moved to Galt, to a largely Hispanic neighborhood. While I'm not trying to justify my past activities, I think telling this will help people understand who I am, where I came from, and perhaps offer insights into how a racist-hater develops. I was about 12 when I had a gun stuck in my back. Why? Because I was a stupid "gringo" kid. I don't talk about this experience often, and only told my parents last year. Actually only my mom, since my dad would still be infuriated by it. We had a living Hell in that neighborhood, being one of the few Anglo families in the area. Without a doubt I was taught "racism" during those years, 1978-1984. And I learned to be a racist, too. I entered the "movement" in late 1988, ironically after I had marginally worked for the Dukakis-Bentsen campaign. I was attracted to the "movement" at first by it's social justice advocacy. My family has never been one of stable finances by any means. In addition, my resentment against minority groups at my junior college in Stockton, California for practicing their native languages and cultures over and above "American" language and culture, making myself feel as though I was a stranger in my own homeland, enflamed my passions, and made the (non-)answers of the "movement" look all more appealing. The hatred didn't come until later, after being caught up in the "philosophy" of the "movement" which offered quick, simple solutions to every social problem. Like Mencken once wrote, "For every complex question, there is a simple answer. And it's wrong." Ironically, my racism focused little on Hispanics. Most irrational of all was my hatred of the Jews. Never in my recollection have I been personally harmed by a Jew. In fact, the very Jews I have known have been good to me, and would never give me reason to in the least revile their people. Of course the economic explanations that the "Jews control the economy" helped develop my anti-Semitic hatred. Also was the distaste for people who looked so radically different from me. Becoming a racist is a long journey. Becoming a non-racist (at least relative to what I used to believe) is also a long journey. Fortunately, first ends the hatred. The lesser prejudices leave later. But also, let us not fool ourselves into thinking that all prejudices disappear, regardless of what we do. All are racist, only it is a matter of degree. >Before I proceed let me ask some questions: >If a seriel rapists were to suddenly change and present themselves to a >group of women what do you think they're initial response would be to >the new person before them. A legitimate one, one of distrust, and fear, and anger, and hatred. >If a seriel child molester were to suddenly change and present >themselves to a group of parents what do you think they're initial >response would be to the new person before them? A legitimate one, one of distrust, fear, anger, and hatred. >If a former nazi were to suddenly change and present themselves to a >group of Jews what do you think they're initial response would be to the >new person before them? A legitimate one, one of distrust, fear, anger, and often hatred. >So before my concern and critical response to Mr. Kliem's conversion be >dismissed as a knee-jerk reaction..consider my baggage... It is considered, and my reaction to your reaction is something I can see now is an overreaction. >I have not condemned Mr. Kleim, far from it..I have put my baggage in >the closet..but I have not put away my critical concerns. If indeed we >are to have a open discourse....it should be open..So if my comments as >our collegue from Helsinki are chilling..remember that they are open and >this is the forum for such openess, critical reasoning, and a place >where we can freely express our concerns. I think Panu was not intending harm towards anyone on this list, and perhaps it is his somewhat limited command of the English language that created the wrong impression of his commentary. Panu is a good young man, who I have worked with for over a week now, and his soul is one of relative purity. At least I think so (am I right, Panu? :-). He is a friendly and kind person, but is also a person who speaks his mind. I'm sure Panu would be happy to apologize for any misunderstanding of his words. I extend good wishes to all. Good day! -- Milton John Kleim, Jr. From rturner@law.ua.edu Tue Oct 1 13:45:35 1996 From: "Ronald Turner" Organization: University of Alabama School of Law To: Racial-Religious-EthnoNationalist Violence Studies , coatesrd@casmail.muohio.edu Date: Tue, 1 Oct 1996 14:30:22 CST Subject: Re: Critical response and concern Like Rodney Coates, I am skeptical of claims, self-serving or otherwise, that an individual has abandoned a treacherous way of life and, having seen the light, has placed himself or herself on the side of the angels. That is not to say that Kleim has not made a genuine and transformative change. It is to say that skepticism is a normal and, in my view, healthy response and does not and need not chill discussion. Ronald Turner Univ. of Alabama School of Law 205/348-1137 > Date: Tue, 01 Oct 1996 09:43:55 -0400 > Reply-to: coatesrd@casmail.muohio.edu > From: "Rodney D. Coates" > To: Racial-Religious-EthnoNationalist Violence Studies > Subject: Critical response and concern > X-To: LUUKKA@Sato.Helsinki.FI > Critical response and concern: > > I have been called into question by those who think that I have > prejudged Mr. Milton Kleim and his conversion. Perhaps a little bit of > personal history will help you to understand my concern and my critical > response. > > I was born in Mississippi. One of my earliest memories was being > awakened early one morning to screams of fire. Our house was in flames > and on the front yard there was a burning cross. The perpetrators of > this deed was never found. My parents, fearful of a repeat performance, > moved to the St. Louis area. This memory lives with me and causes me to > be critical of all forms of hatred, particularly racial hatred. > > Now I know that this is my personal baggage..but it is real > nevertheless. > > Before I proceed let me ask some questions: > > If a seriel rapists were to suddenly change and present themselves to a > group of women what do you think they're initial response would be to > the new person before them. > > If a seriel child molester were to suddenly change and present > themselves to a group of parents what do you think they're initial > response would be to the new person before them? > > If a former nazi were to suddenly change and present themselves to a > group of Jews what do you think they're initial response would be to the > new person before them? > > So before my concern and critical response to Mr. Kliem's conversion be > dismissed as a knee-jerk reaction..consider my baggage... > > I have not condemned Mr. Kleim, far from it..I have put my baggage in > the closet..but I have not put away my critical concerns. If indeed we > are to have a open discourse....it should be open..So if my comments as > our collegue from Helsinki are chilling..remember that they are open and > this is the forum for such openess, critical reasoning, and a place > where we can freely express our concerns. > > peace out..in love.. > > rodney coates > director of black world studies > miami university > oxford, ohio > From vhelmle@earthlink.com Tue Oct 1 13:50:23 1996 Date: Tue, 01 Oct 1996 12:51:17 -0700 From: Vietta Helmle To: revs@csf.colorado.edu Subject: Re: Critical response and concern References: <7089BCC2559@sato.helsinki.fi> <3251201B.2131@casmail.muohio.edu> Dear Friends, (This is very long. Sorry) I respect and appreciate the hopeful and fair-minded statements of our colleague Panu Luuka. I agree that we should all hope for the best from Kleim. I believe he should get the same nod anyone would receive who loudly proclaimed their intention to work against hatred, especially organized hatred. I have worked for many years with the movement to end violence against women. Dr. C's comments asked us to consider how we women would react to a rapist who claimed to be reformed. I can confirm that I would never believe the self-report of a rapist who claimed to be recovered. I have good, sound, rational reasons for my position. My understanding about rape and child sexual abuse not only reflect on my victimization as a child but on the facts about rapists, their thinking process and their proven predictable behavior. In other words, rapists do what they do whether I trust them or hate them. Frankly, rapists and other criminals get many chances to change and just don't bother, because the penalties are rare and inadequate. In fact, one of the most annoying and predictable acts that offenders perform is the "confession". They confess to the crime, ask forgiveness and then expect to be fully trusted and accepted. When they make these grand statements, they target the most highly impacted groups--women who work on hotlines or other activists women's groups, for instance. Rapists can count on sexism to undermine the women's authority, so when the women react with realisic skepticism to their loud chest pounding "change", they can depend on the public backlash against the women which will soon follow. Everyone gets crabby with the women because they "won't give the guy a chance to prove himself" or, worse, "listen to his side of the story." This process is so reliable that I consider it to be a feature of institutionalized sexism. Finally, I think the parallel between racist thinking and sexist thinking is very useful. Being fairly new to the internet, I have by no means seen the worst of the hate groups on Usenet. But I have seen enough to feel sick. The thinking which drives the hatred and racism is very similar to the thinking which drives crimes against women. Redemption, forgiveness and renewal are definitely possible, but we need to see more than big talk. We need an internal investigation--bank statements, membership rosters, organizational goals and objectives. We need to see Kleim expose the hatred, not just proclaim his new "truth". Vietta From ishgooda@tdi.net Tue Oct 1 16:44:01 1996 Date: Tue, 01 Oct 1996 18:53:17 -0400 To: eblair@softcom.net From: Ishgooda Subject: Re: Professor Coates' poem At 11:22 AM 10/1/96 -0700, Rodney Coates wrote: >>Will it Last? Khwe, My name is Ishgooda. I am Wendat, Lumbee, Black and European. I also am a list owner for a native discussion group on race relations, sovereignty issues and native rights protection. How does a person become trusted? By showing honorable actions toward the people with whom he/she is involved. No amount of rhetoric ever changes trust level, only consistency of action. Reasons make good excuses not trustworthy and honorable people. We will watch your actions and wait. Ishgooda From llurch@networking.stanford.edu Tue Oct 1 19:47:35 1996 Date: Tue, 1 Oct 1996 18:47:30 -0700 (PDT) From: Rich Graves Reply-To: Rich Graves To: REVS@csf.colorado.edu Subject: Re: Milton Klein: FORMER White Nationalist proposes research Milton Bcc'd me on one of his recent messages, so I joined up, for a while at least. I've read the last two months' archives on the web. Back on Sat, 28 Sep 1996, Tore Bjorgo wrote: >For a recent and interesting auto-biographic account, see Ingo >Hasselbach with Tom Reiss, Fuehrer-Ex: Memoirs of a Former Neo-Nazi >(London: Chatto and Windus, 1996). Funny you should mention this, because I believe I recall Milton chiming in on a Stormfront thread several months ago calling Hasselbach a fraud. :-) (Or was that "AryanGar"?) My own interests have been more along the lines of how the views of extremist groups percolate through society, but since mid-February, I believe I've been following Milton and company as closely as anyone (and vice versa, in a few cases). For various reasons, I'm not sure how productive discussions with Milton would be on this list, but I will without reservation vouch for his sincerity and good will (if clumsily expressed, and sometimes misinformed) at this time. I say this as someone who about six months ago felt personally threatened by the man. I've got Stormfront and private email archives, Usenet expertise, and my own recollection to corroborate/balance stories he might tell you. (Not that the two of us are a traveling road show, or anything.) My own framework for understanding these issues comes from studies of political extremism and recovery from authoritarianism in Latin America, plus a general education in political science and international relations. I knew essentially nothing about "white nationalism" until this February, but I'm extremely well-read on current events in this area, especially as they relate to the net. On DejaNews, you'll find me as rich@c2.org and rcgraves@ix.netcom.com. Peace. -rich From LUUKKA@Sato.Helsinki.FI Wed Oct 2 12:16:54 1996 From: "Panu Luukka" Organization: University of Helsinki To: coatesrd@casmail.muohio.edu, revs@csf.colorado.edu Date: Tue, 1 Oct 1996 22:02:12 EET DST Subject: Re: Critical Response and concern Dear Everybody, At first I thought that We all need a break with this matter related to Mr. Kleim and his change, but there still are some things that are worth discussing (at least clarifying from my part). Let me start by clearing my mind about my last message. I re-read it. Well what can I say: It was something it quite wasn't meant to be. My intention was not to praise Mr. Kleim's and Mr. Schoedel's possible intellectual capabilities or to tell You how nice persons they might be. I wrote the message to underline that we should be happy about their "departure" from the starship called "Movement". It may be that they realized that the starship was heading towards it's own destruction and decided to save their own skin before it. What ever their motives are I personally think that after their departure from the starship called "Movement", it's destruction will be much nearer compared to situation when they would be in the spaceship or even controlling it. We all know, the biggest problem of the spaceship called "Movement" is that all the pilots who are capable to drive it are quite old (at least to my knowledge). They need Young and bright Cadets to replace themselves after their time has come. Now as I said earlier they've lost two VERY possible successors. Let's not push them back to spaceship, but let's consider it this way: "They might know the weak places of that spaceship." If they are willing to tell us what they are, let's try. Hell we don't have anything to lose, but lots to win. What comes to my critque towards Prof. Coates first reply I'll answer by answering his newest post. This might get a little bit to personal for the list, but to Honor Mr. Coates' opinions I posted this to the list also: > I was born in Mississippi. One of my earliest memories was being > awakened early one morning to screams of fire. Our house was in flames > and on the front yard there was a burning cross. The perpetrators of > this deed was never found. My parents, fearful of a repeat performance, > moved to the St. Louis area. This memory lives with me and causes me to > be critical of all forms of hatred, particularly racial hatred. The words aren't enough to tell how deeply sorry I am about Your history, Mr. Coates. Even though I haven't experienced (and hope I nor my family ever will) nothing like You just described, please take my words; the unfortunate situation You just described IS the reason why I am in this research. > Before I proceed let me ask some questions: > > If a seriel rapists were to suddenly change and present themselves to a > group of women what do you think they're initial response would be to > the new person before them. Let me quess... Lots of Yelling and screaming. Maybe even physical attacks... Reactions like this would be understandable, But let me ask a counter question (please forgive my English and the syntax, I hope You all understand what I mean): If the seriel rapists suddenly changed and presented themselves to a group of presumed professionals who were studying rapists (both men and women) and were doing research about them. The rapists might say that they _might_ know what is wrong in the nature or the nuture of possible rapists and that they also _might_ know how some people could be prevented from becoming a rapist. They would also point out that research about the rapists done by some feminists reseachers _might_ not be correct or it even _might_ be biased. What would You think would be rapists response, if the presumed professionals only answer to the rapists were: "How dare you call the study done by this feminists inaccurate or even biased. If you don't change your opinions about them or their research we are not even going to talk to You....and by the way rapist IS and will always be rapist!" > I have not condemned Mr. Kleim, far from it..I have put my baggage in > the closet..but I have not put away my critical concerns. If indeed we > are to have a open discourse....it should be open..So if my comments as > our collegue from Helsinki are chilling..remember that they are open and > this is the forum for such openess, critical reasoning, and a place > where we can freely express our concerns. Critical concerns are needed, but let's not make THEM a baggage. And YES, Prof. Coates Your posts have always been open and YES this is the forum for such openess... but let's keep it open to everybody! > peace out..in love.. No, there is always room for both of them! ;-) Peace AND Love Panu Luukka Your collegue from Helsinki From ishgooda@tdi.net Wed Oct 2 13:07:53 1996 Date: Wed, 02 Oct 1996 15:17:09 -0400 To: From: Ishgooda Subject: GUILT AND TRIBAL ROLL INCREASES >Date: 96-09-30 07:40:24 EDT >From: TheSharonG@AOL.COM (Sharon Gottstein) > > >Thanks for the follow-up information concerning the Mohawk Indian seizure of >a school. Given the state of Indian life on most reservations with its high >rates of alcoholism, suicide, and unemployment, it is hard to see how they >could do worse! > >Of course, in a broader sense, I wonder about American sentimentality and >guilt feelings for the Indian tribes that inhabited this continent before the >Europeans arrived. Was it really to be expected that about a million people >would continue to be allowed to hog an entire continent while millions of >other people were starved for land? An entire continent that is capable of >supporting hundreds of millions of people is to be left to a few people so >they can engage in hunting and gathering or subsistence farming? Before the >Europeans arrived, the Indian tribes spent most of their time either in >warfare, hunting, or pillage. Instead of thinking of the "poor" Indians, we >should think of them as the "idle rich" who controlled an immensely rich >continent and did virtually nothing with it. Did they deserve to keep it or >did they get exactly what they deserved? > >It may be sad that groups of people were dispossessed of their lands and ways >of life, but surely a greater good was accomplished for an infinitely larger >number of human beings by the population and development of this continent by >other nations. I hope that we, as history teachers, aren't filling our >students heads with a lot of pap about the "Noble Savage" when their story is >really a lesson about the viability of certain ways of life. In the modern >era, hunting and gathering just didn't have much of a future. >Sharon > Khwe Sharon, It is my belief that many seek status on Tribal rolls in order to say I am not a part of those who committed these atrocities on the peoples of this land the European ancestors invaded. See the treatise below on Genocide American style, and recall the families who changed their names from Hermann to Hermes, or Heinlein to Hineline in order to escape the collective guilt of the Jewish holocaust in Europe. This reaction is common among the European ancestored people with whom I have spoken. You mentioned that wealth is the goal of those who seek tribal status. There are two very distinct philosophies at work in your argument. One, the get rich market mind of the European bankers mentality, I term the "Takers", and the other traditional model I call the "Leavers" {coined in the book Ishmael}. The Takers justify subduing and ruling creation from a "God Created us to rule the World" philosophy which in essence states there are no rights separate from what is granted by mankind. A tree has value only for that which it can be used, and any mess we create of this world will be forgiven because we are the Chosen People, or science will clean it up because we are the end of the evolutionary chain. How dare the "Savage" fail to acknowledge this God Given right! The second philosophy is inherently based upon the inherent worth of all creation simply because it has been created and therefore fills a niche in the over all Whole. I do not own my dog, anymore than my dog owns me. I value a tree because it IS. Nothing exists to serve me as the reason of its existence. The Earth replenishes what is used by recycling what it has created, I follow the Earth's natural cycle and have been successful if I make NO change. As to relations between the two philosophies regardless of color of skin it is not until we can cease to identify ourselves as victim and perpetrator will there be a common ground to resolve any issues between our people. Not until the right to exist unmolested in our lands is recognized will these atrocities cease. The treatise below is a compilation from various sources. Read it and weep for the lost children of both cultures, those who have lived it and those who remain ignorant due to a genocidal governmental policy which would obscure its own role in the demise of the people of this land. Justice is a whore that won't let herself be stifled, and collects the wages of shame, even from the poor. Karl Kraus (1874-1936) Austrian satirist. Ishgooda -=-=-=-=>>>>> "Out at Wounded Knee, because a storm set in, followed by a blizzard, the bodies of the slain Indians lay untouched for three days, frozen stiff where they had fallen. Finally they were buried in a large trench dug on the battlefield itself. On that third day [General] Colby...saw the blanket of a corpse move...Under the blanket, snuggled up to its dead mother...he found a little suckling baby girl. On her head, the eight- month-old infant wore a tiny buckskin cap with a needlepoint design in the shape of an American flag. ....Zintka Lanuni - Lost Bird - was taken by General Colby against the other survivors objections, not to educate her but to display her thereafter for profit as a genuine Indian 'war curio.' When Colby first showed off 'his newly acquired possession,' reported his home newspaper, 'not less than 500 persons called at his house to see it.' Finally put on display in Buffalo Bill's Wild West Show, Lost Bird died at age twenty-nine in Los Angeles. In July 1991, the Lakota had her remains moved from Los Angeles back to Wounded Knee, where she was interred, a hundred years after the massacre..." On June 21, Kellogg sent the following telegraph message to the Tribune: . . . tomorrow, June 22, General Custer with twelve Calvary companies will scout from its mouth up the valley of the Rosebud until he reaches the fresh trail discovered by Major Reno, and move on that trail with all the rapidity possible in order to overhaul the Indians whom it has been ascertained are hunting buffalo and making daily leisurely short marches. Gibbon's part of the command will march up the Big Horn Valley in order to intercept the Indians if they should attempt to escape from General Custer down that avenue. Then suddenly the telegraph from Bismark, Dakota Territory, began tapping out the message: General Custer attacked the Indians June 25, and he, with every officer and man in five companies were killed. Reno with seven companies fought in intrenched [sic] positions three days. The Bismark Tribune's special correspondent was with the expedition and killed. CANKPE OPI (Wounded Knee)...a collection [The contents of this page are approved by traditional elders on the Pine Ridge and Cheyenne River reservations.] (first nations) "There is nothing to conceal or apologize for in the Wounded Knee Battle - beyond the killing of a wounded buck by a hysterical recruit. The firing was begun by the Indians and continued until they stopped - with the one exception noted above." "That women and children were casualties was unfortunate but unavoidable, and most must have been [killed] from Indian bullets...The Indians at Wounded Knee brought their own destruction as surely as any people ever did. Their attack on the troops was as treacherous as any in the history of Indian warfare, and that they were under a strange religious hallucination is only an explanation not an excuse." ....excerpts from an official investigation of Wounded Knee initiated at the behest of Congress, written by General E. D. Scott. In The Spirit of Crazy Horse "You Christians are a lost people with no identity to this land, the only God you have is your technology which will destroy you because of the greed it demands...I have no fear of your materialistic power and your brutality can not harm me, it will only separate you further from your spirit which will bring me closer to mine. My love for my People and the land is my strength and that i something you will never be able to touch because it is a power you do not understand." Darrelle Butler (Rouge River Tuni) "I do not regret the part I played and received ten years in prison for, on the contrary, I would have thought less of myself if I had not done that which I am obligated to do, so that my people may live. Moreover, I would not hesitate to do it again if and whenever the need arose. My only pain is in knowing that my people and family still suffer from our government manipulations and control over their lives, and the lives of our future generations. The struggle of my people continues, and will continue until liberation is achieved." Robert Robideau (Ojibwa) Dead Indians, Live Indians, and Genocide As per "American Holocaust, Columbus and the Conquest of the New World, David Stannard, Oxford University Press, ISBN 0-19-507581-1 the term "genocide" was coined by Raphael Lemkin in his book, "Axis Rule in Occupied Europe, published in 1944. His thinking is summarized by Frank Chalk and Kurt Jonassohn. pp. 279-280: Under Lemkin's definition, genocide was the coordinated and planned annihilation of a national, religious, or racial group by a variety of actions aimed at undermining the foundations essential to the survival of the group as a group. Lemkin conceived of genocide as 'a composite of different acts of persecution or destruction.' His definition included attack on political and social institutions, culture, language, national feelings, religion, and the economic existence of the group. Even nonlethal acts that undermined the liberty, dignity, and personal security of members of a group constituted genocide if they contributed to weakening the vitality of the group. Under Lemkin's definition, acts of ethnocide- a term coined by the French after the war to cover the destruction of a culture without the killing of its bearers-also qualified as genocide. Lemkin stated that "Genocide has two phases: one, destruction of the national pattern of the oppressed group: the other, the imposition of the national pattern of the oppressor." This has most certainly been the case as regards the First Nations. American Holocaust, pp. 279. United Nations General Assembly resolution, 1946: Genocide is the denial of the right of existence to entire human groups, as homicide is the denial of the right to live of individual human beings; such denial of the right of existence shocks the conscience of mankind, results in great losses to humanity in the form of cultural and other contributions represented by these groups, and is contrary to moral law and to the spirit and aims of the United Nations. Many instances of such crimes of genocide is a matter of international concern. The General Assembly Therefore, Affirms that genocide is a crime under international law which the civilized world condemns, and for the commission of which principals and accomplices-whether private individuals, public officials or statesmen, and whether the crime is committed on religious, racial, political or any other grounds-are punishable. pp. 280 - Genocide Convention of the United Nations (1948): ...Article II- In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial, or religious group, as such: (a) Killing members of the group, (b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group, (c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part, (d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group, (e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group. The United States failed to sign on to the Genocide Convention for forty years. This, in itself, makes a very definite statement. As noted in Indians Are Us? Culture and Genocide in the United States, Ward Churchill, ISBN 1-56751-020-5: Considerable anxiety was expressed by various senators and expert witnesses over the years that certain activities of subordinate (state and local) governments and private parties, each of them sanctioned and/or protected by the federal government might well violate the terms of the Convention." Indeed the United States, when the time was right took pains to modify the Convention via a resolution which contained the following: "Nothing in the Convention requires or authorizes legislation or other action by the United States of America prohibited by the Constitution of the United States as interpreted by the the United States. In this manner, the government sought to "elevate the U.S. Constitution to a status above that of the Laws of the Nations." And...quoting from Chapter 5 - The Earth Is Our Mother from the book The State of Native America, Genocide, Colonization and Resistance, edited by Annette Jaimes, ISBN 0-89608-424-9: Hitler's conception of lebensraumpolitik - the idea that Germans were innately entitled by virtue of their racial and cultural superiority to land belonging to others, and that they were thus morally free to take it by aggressive military action - obviously had much in common with the 19th century American sense of 'Manifest Destiny.' ...Even the the Nazi tactic of concentrating 'undesireables' prior to their forced 'relocation or reduction' was drawn from actual U.S. examples, including internment of the Cherokees and other 'Civilized Tribes' during the 1830's before the the devastatingly lethal Trail of Tears was forced upon them, and the comparable experience of the Navajo people at the Bosque Redondo during the period 1864-68. Okay...no point, in my opinion, to go into a, b, or c as noted in Article II - I believe the record speaks for itself. However, as regards d - Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group, I'd like to throw in a particularly appalling 20th century episode. This, as regards the Indian Health Service: In the mid-70's a Choctaw-Tsalagi doctor was approached by a 26-year-old NA woman who desired a "womb transplant." She had been sterilized when she was 20 at the Indian Health Service hospital in Claremont, Oklahoma. One thing lead to another and it was discovered that 75 percent of the Claremont sterilizations were non-theraputic, that women (NA's) were being prompted to sign sterilization forms they didn't understand, that they were being told the operations were reversible...some women even being asked to sign sterilization papers while they had yet to come out of birthing sedation. "Common Sense magazine reported that the Indian Health Service was sterilizing 3,000 Indian women per year, 4 to 6 percent of the child bearing population...Dr. R. T. Ravenholt, [then] director of the federal government's Office of Population, later confirmed that 'surgical sterilization has become increasingly important in recent years as one of the advanced methods of fertility management.'" In response to critics of this program Ravenholt "told the Population Association of America in St. Louis that the critics were 'a really radical extremist group lashing out at a responsible program so that revolution will occur.'" Now, I am familiar with the Norplant flap some years ago when, I believe, someone posited that Norplant might be a great idea for welfare/poor women. However, I have not encountered, ever, in this country anything that compares with the IHS operation.(If anyone can aim me to a detailed pool of information re the IHS Claremont Ops I would be grateful.) Couple the Claremont ops with "Historic" vice "Non-Historic and "Termination"(no pun intended) and, IMO, it becomes clear that one way or another, by hook or by crook, Wasichu is/was? determined to lessen the administrative/moral burden carried by virtue of being responsible for the First Nations/First Peoples once he had conquered the continent. Campaign slogans and rhetoric: Consider a campaign with slogans such as "The only good injun is a dead injun" and "Nits Make Lice" (a justification for murdering children for chrissakes). Can we really say that there are/were no genocidal intentions here? I don't think so. But then I haven't noted any documented evidence to the effect that the U.S. government advocated such policy. Correct me if I'm wrong but it seems to have been generated by the military commanders who would have had no one to kill if the Indian campaigns had been cancelled. After all, everyone needs to justify the neccessity of his job in some way or other. Of course the government did not do much to insure that the military represented the United States in a suitable fashion. Even after the tales of Sand Creek began to circulate--and many U.S. citizens were appalled by the atrocities that occurred there--not much was done to curb the actions of insubordinate military commanders. What do you think happened on the Washita? That was no accident, it was a premeditated massacre which, incidentally, was not sanctioned by government officials. "Germ warfare" has been utilized against the Native population as evidenced by William Trent's description of the "gift" to the Delaware, 1763: Out of our regard to them [the Delawares] we gave them two Blankets and Handkerchief out of the Small Pox Hospital. I hope it will have the desired effect. From Don_R._Calkins@commonlink.com Wed Oct 2 14:03:22 1996 From: Don_R._Calkins@commonlink.com (Don R. Calkins) Reply-To: Don_R._Calkins@commonlink.com To: Religion%*@commonlink.com, Spirituality/Religion%*@commonlink.com, revs@csf.colorado.edu, COVR%ECUVM1.BITNET@mitvma.mit.edu, chironmail%*@commonlink.com Subject: Fwd: U.S. condemns death sentence on Iranian Bahai Date: 02 Oct 1996 14:47:16 GMT Organization: Common Link On-Line service ================================fwd==================================== WASHINGTON (Reuter) - The United States Tuesday urged Iran to annul a death sentence passed on a member of the Bahai faith and to release the convicted man. State Department spokesman Nicholas Burns said Washington understood that Musa Talibi had been sentenced to death by an Iranian court for ``apostasy'', a word used in Iran to mean abandoning Islam. ``The United States government strongly condemns this conviction and calls on the government of Iran to repudiate it immediately, to release Mr Talibi from custody, and to guarantee his safety,'' Burns said in a statement. ``We further urge that the government of Iran release all other Bahais imprisoned on apostasy charges,'' he said, adding that Iran should stop persecuting Bahais and members of other religious minorities. The Bahai faith, an offshoot of Islam, was created in Iran 150 years ago. It claims six million members worldwide including 350,000 in Iran where it is officially considered ``a misleading and wayward sect''. =================================end==================================== "Know ye not why We created you all from the same dust? That no one should exalt himself over the other." - Baha'u'llah : Race Unity pages - http://www.commonlink.com/~chiron_rising/race/race.html: IP = 204.77.198.71 From jota@netbistro.com Wed Oct 2 19:21:28 1996 Date: Wed, 2 Oct 96 18:23 PDT To: revs@csf.colorado.edu From: jota@netbistro.com (Jay/Lois Cowsill) Subject: Re: Maya ***Genocide by any other name smells just as rotten!! ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 20 Sep 1996 17:56:43 GMT From: Anthony Murawski Subject: NYT: Guatemala: Origins of the Civil War NEW YORK TIMES Friday September 20, 1996 A War So Long, Its Origin Is Dim to the Guatemalans ------------------------------------------------------- Related Article * Guatemala and Guerrillas Sign Accord to End 35-Year-Old War ------------------------------------------------------- By LARRY ROHTER [M]IAMI -- In retrospect, the civil war in Guatemala now seems "an absurd conflict," as one of the country's leading businessmen called it just last month. The conflict has been going on for so long, that most of Guatemala's 10.5 million people can no longer remember what started it, even though they have been forced to live with the consequences their entire lives. John Kennedy was president of the United States and the Cold War was at its height when a group of military officers rebelled against their commanders in November 1961 to form the kernel of what soon became a leftist guerrilla insurgency. More than 100,000 people have been killed since then in what has become the longest and most deadly of Central America's many civil wars. The Guatemalan government and the rebels signed a peace accord in Mexico City on Thursday. From the start, the conflict has also been very much an American war. Even over the last 18 months, as the fighting has been winding down and the leaders of the Guatemalan National Revolutionary Union and the Guatemalan government have made clear their desire to bring the bloodshed to an end, decisions that Washington made a generation ago are still producing repercussions. Most notably, the Central Intelligence Agency came under fire early last year after the release of documents implicating a Guatemalan Army colonel, Julio Alpirez, in the killings of an American innkeeper and a rebel commander married to an American lawyer. Like many of his colleagues, Alpirez turned out to have been an informant on the payroll of the CIA, which had been funneling money to Guatemalan officers even after American aid was suspended. The roots of the Guatemalan conflict can be traced back to 1954, when the CIA sponsored the military coup that overthrew Jacobo Arbenz Guzman, the country's popularly elected president. Known as "the soldier of the people," Arbenz had been elected in 1950 on a platform of social reform, but was ousted after trying to carry out a land redistribution program that alarmed the Eisenhower administration and the powerful United Fruit Co. The successor whom Washington recruited, Col. Carlos Castillo Armas, was assassinated three years later. Full formal civilian rule did not return until the mid-1980s, and for the last decade four successive civilian presidents have sought, with limited success until the election of Alvaro Arzu Irigoyen in January, to curb the power of the military. Throughout four decades of conflict, the Guatemalan military has been criticized for systematic human rights violations, which have resulted in the deaths of tens of thousands of people. Though the guerrillas too have earned a reputation for brutality, the bulk of the killings and disappearances of labor leaders, intellectuals, peasants, students, human rights advocates, and even the first cousin of a sitting president have been attributed to the military. Like similar insurgencies in El Salvador and Nicaragua, the fighting in Guatemala pitted leftist guerrillas, claiming to speak for an impoverished peasantry, against a small and wealthy local oligarchy. But Guatemala's war also had a racial element, since nearly two-thirds of the population is of Mayan Indian descent, while the elite likes to emphasize its European heritage. In the early 1980s, in particular, the war took a turn that human rights groups describe as being close to genocide. Under the "beans or bullets" strategy of Gen. Efrain Rios Montt, several hundred Indian villages were obliterated and their inhabitants, presumed to be guerrilla sympathizers, either killed or forced into exile in Mexico. If the United States can be blamed for helping start the war, it has played much less of a role in bringing it to an end. Beginning with President Jimmy Carter's emphasis on human rights, American relations with the Guatemalan military have frayed, resulting in a declining ability to mix jawboning and aid to bring the military to heel. Even now, some within the military are resisting the approaching peace. In a manifesto last month, a clandestine group of military dissidents threatened to kill 19 civilian leaders, including Arzu, and 57 army officers whom they accused of "discrediting our great victory and trampling our national dignity." Home | Sections | Contents | Search | Forums | Help Copyright 1996 The New York Times Company ---------------------------------------------------------- From Don_R._Calkins@commonlink.com Thu Oct 3 00:06:02 1996 From: Don_R._Calkins@commonlink.com (Don R. Calkins) Reply-To: Don_R._Calkins@commonlink.com To: Religion%*@commonlink.com, Spirituality/Religion%*@commonlink.com, revs@csf.colorado.edu, COVR%ECUVM1.BITNET@mitvma.mit.edu, chironmail%*@commonlink.com Subject: Fwd: Press Release re: Iranian Baha'i Date: 03 Oct 1996 00:40:12 GMT Organization: Common Link On-Line service ===================================fwd================================== The National Spiritual Assembly of the Baha'is of the United States issued the following press release on October 2, 1996. TEXT State Department Condemns Death Sentence Against Iranian Baha'i Convicted of Apostasy -- Urges Iran to End Religious Persecution of Baha'is The State Department has strongly condemned Iran's conviction of a Baha'i for apostasy and called on the Iranian Government to repudiate the death sentence recently imposed on Mr. Musa Talibi. In a special statement issued at yesterday's press briefing, State Department Spokesman Nicholas Burns urged Iran to release all other Baha'is imprisoned on apostasy charges and to cease its persecution of the Baha'is and other religious minorities in Iran. Four Iranian Baha'is currently face death sentences on account of their religious beliefs. On February 15, the State Department had issued a strong appeal in the case of Mr. Zabihullah Mahrami, who had also been sentenced to death for apostasy. Following the U.S. appeal and actions by U.N. officials and representatives of other governments, Iran's Supreme Court referred the Mahrami case to a civil court for re-trial. Two other Baha'is who have been imprisoned since 1989 have also appealed death sentences based on their religious beliefs. U.S. Baha'i spokesman Firuz Kazemzadeh noted that Christians and other converts from Islam could be in danger of prosecution if the apostasy verdicts are upheld. Following is the text of the State Department Spokesman's statement, with additional background information provided by the American Baha'i community. Statement by Nicholas Burns, State Department Spokesman, October 1, 1996 "We understand that Mr. Musa Talibi, an Iranian Baha'i, has been sentenced to death for apostasy by a court of the Government of Iran. "The United States Government strongly condemns this conviction and calls on the Government of Iran to repudiate it immediately, to release Mr. Talibi from custody, and to guarantee his safety. We further urge that the Government of Iran release all other Baha'is imprisoned on apostasy charges. "The United States once again calls on the Government of Iran to desist in its persecution of members of the Baha'i and other religious minorities residing in Iran, and to comply fully with the International Convention on Civil and Political Rights." The National Spiritual Assembly of the Baha'is of the United States ===============================end=========================================== "Know ye not why We created you all from the same dust? That no one should exalt himself over the other." - Baha'u'llah : Race Unity pages - http://www.commonlink.com/~chiron_rising/race/race.html: IP = 204.77.198.71 From llurch@networking.stanford.edu Thu Oct 3 02:08:28 1996 Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 01:08:23 -0700 (PDT) From: Rich Graves To: REVS Subject: Re: Critical response and concern In-Reply-To: <32517635.5519@earthlink.com> On Tue, 1 Oct 1996, Vietta Helmle wrote: > Finally, I think the parallel between racist thinking and sexist > thinking is very useful. Being fairly new to the internet, I have by no > means seen the worst of the hate groups on Usenet. But I have seen > enough to feel sick. The thinking which drives the hatred and racism is > very similar to the thinking which drives crimes against women. Perhaps. Milton himself, speaking personally rather than academically, has spoken of a psychosexual component to hate propaganda and violence. However, while there is certainly such a thing as institutionalized sexism, there is no "movement" that benefits directly when an individual man attacks an individual woman. Nor, I believe, do crimes against women typically involve the supporting ideological infrastructure of falsification and denial of history that you see in racial/ethnic hate groups. Stereotypes, machismo, and societal acceptance of gender roles, yes; but nothing like, for example, Holocaust denial, and certainly no Fuhrer of Rape. This may ironically make violence against women more, not less, difficult to combat. Hating Jews requires the acceptance of some really loony lies, easily disproven if you can get someone to listen to reason. Holocaaust denial is insanity supported by fraud. Believing that you can get away with rape, on the other hand, may be *rational*. Telling the truth is a lot easier than changing social structures and, perhaps, biology. > Redemption, forgiveness and renewal are definitely possible, but we need > to see more than big talk. We need an internal investigation--bank > statements, membership rosters, organizational goals and objectives. We > need to see Kleim expose the hatred, not just proclaim his new "truth". Actually, most of this is already available. Because of the National Alliance's cell structure, Milton probabaly knows less about the NA's finances and membership than, say, the ADL does. While I am personally ecstatic about Milton's withdrawal -- I feel, without putting too fine a point on it, that a soul has been saved -- I am dubious about his ability, in the near term, to fight racial hatred. He has rejected the *conclusions* of racial hatred. At this time, though, I believe he is ill-equipped, to counter the *premises* of racial hatred, which in my view are far more important. All he knows is one side of the hate propaganda war. He is trained in denying and falsifying the historical record, not in investigating and honestly teaching it. He can and has convinced key former comrades in racial hatred to withdraw from active propaganda and violence, and for that I'm quite grateful; but they still cling to loony ahistorical and pseudoscientific ideas, because Milton lacks the ability or will to change their hearts and minds fundamentally. Maybe that's all we can hope for; maybe they're too far gone to hope to change any more radically than from neo-Nazi to somewhere to the right of Buchanan, and maybe the only person who can reach them at all is one of their own. I will continue to treat former (and current) neo-Nazis with respect and, if they don't mind, with friendship. In learning to understand how they got into the "movement" and how they got out, though, it is essential to avoid validating the claims of hate propaganda. Arguing that Nazism is a really lousy way to "Secure the existence of our people and a future for white children," as Milton has successfully done, is fine for getting "activists" to stand down, but inasmuch as it accepts the racist propagandist's units of analysis and historicism, it's entirely the wrong way to go. This, not Milton's alleged insincerity or recidivism (I firmly believe he's 100% sincere in his current endeavors, and that he currently bears no ill will towards any other "race"), is the danger in being too accepting. -rich From eblair@softcom.net Wed Oct 2 13:06:30 1996 Date: Wed, 02 Oct 1996 12:06:41 -0700 To: vhelmle@earthlink.com From: "Milton John Kleim, Jr." Subject: Re: Critical response and concern Vietta writes: [discussion about rapists and misogyny deleted for space] A bit of comment. I'm fairly sure there was no implication of such, but I don't think it would be at all fair to compare me to a rapist. Unlike many in the "movement," my actions never _directly_ harmed anyone. I painted no swastikas, burned no crosses, beat up no homosexuals (or anyone for that matter), called no innocent African- American walking down the street the "n" word. My guilt lies _solely_ in creating propaganda and techniques to deliver it. My guilt lies in creating a vision with my literary abilities that fostered further racism and hatred, and conveyed visions I created which now I'd rather not see become realized. >Finally, I think the parallel between racist thinking and sexist >thinking is very useful. Being fairly new to the internet, I have by no >means seen the worst of the hate groups on Usenet. But I have seen >enough to feel sick. The thinking which drives the hatred and racism is >very similar to the thinking which drives crimes against women. In some ways, aberrant thinking which fuels hatred of women is very similar to the mentality that fuels hatred of other ethnic groups. Further, in some ways, the two mentalities are linked. I was one of the few men in the "movement" I knew of who was not a misogynist of sorts. This misogynist mentality was always troubling for me, since the very cultural traits the "movement" supposedly venerated, those traits from the old northern and western European traditions, were not inherently sexist -- in fact, as Gimbutas and others have pointed out, it was the very opposite. Ironically, the misogynist attitude of William Pierce (check out any of his works, and try to find any reference to "she," "her," or _any_ positive comment about women, in fact), et.al., comes from the old Judeo-Christian paternalitistic traditions. >Redemption, forgiveness and renewal are definitely possible, but we need >to see more than big talk. We need an internal investigation--bank >statements, membership rosters, organizational goals and objectives. We >need to see Kleim expose the hatred, not just proclaim his new "truth". Well, organizational goals and objectives I can tell you about, since I helped make some of them, and studied them in depth. At least the _stated_ goals of the "movement." However, "bank statements" and membership rosters I never had access to, and correct me if I'm wrong, it seems you're bringing up a bit of Hollywood intrigue here, as someone on the PSN mailing list did recently. No, the National Alliance is not funded by Martin Bormann in Uruguay with "secret Nazi accounts." The "movement" is BIG business, an "entertainment industry," much like the pornography industry, and can generate large sums with relatively small mailorder sales. _The Turner Diaries_ alone, especially with Pierce's recent 101% increase in price, and his contract with Lyle Stuart, can bring in large amounts of funding relatively quickly. And then there's membership dues (at least $120 a year), and donations from the shortwave broadcast listeners. The "movement's" finances are not as myseterious and intriguing as everyone would somtimes like to imagine. -- Milton From Tore.Bjorgo@nupi.no Wed Oct 2 06:16:59 1996 From: Tore Bjorgo To: revs@csf.colorado.edu Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 13:52:19 +0000 Subject: Leaving racist groups Reply-to: Tore.Bjorgo@nupi.no I fully agree with Panu Luukka's points about Milton Kleim and similar former racist activists. I do not care som much about the purity of the soules of the defectors from these extremist groups as long as they stop their destructive activities. And when they even, like Milton John Kleim and Ronald Schoedel, make real efforts to repairs some of the damage they have caused and try to bring down the movements they belonged to, we should rejoice! I also think we should be tolerant concerning the often deficient political correctness of some of the views still held by some of those recent leavetakers. Leaving such a totalitarian movement is a very dramatic process. It may take some time before all aspects of the person's world view has changed -- and it is a process. If you read Kleim's statement "A Reconing" posted early this summer, where he still declared himself more or less as a true National Socialist but broke with the movement, and compare it with the views he expresses today, it is obvious that he has been through a prolonged and rather painful process of transformation. If persons who want to break with racist groups are repeatedly rejected by the world outside at an early stage in that process, because their views are still not sufficiently PC, there is a considerable risk that they are pushed back to the group they belonged to. My experience, after having followed closely several young activists through this process, is that one should not expect them to have an ideologically "pure heart" at once. It takes time to ajust to a new sense of reality, and one should give them some time before one passes a judgement about how "real" their defection is. Just like most youths who join racist groups do not do so because they hold racist confictions (but for a number of quite other reasons), most leavetakers do not do so primarily because they lose faith in the ideology, but for a number of other reasons. Changes in attitudes follow changes in life situation. Paradoxically, it seems that many antiracist activists are often among those who are moste likely to reject persons who want to break with racist groups. Possibly, they have very strict demands on what is acceptable political views to hold, and if a defector does not immediately reject *all* former views immediately, that person's defection is considered as "not genuine". It also seems like defectors from racist groups becomes an anomaly in the minds of some people -- they do not fit the categories. As some of my local antiracist hotheads put it, "A good Nazi is a dead Nazi". A *former Nazi* is hard to fit in... Regards, Tore Bjorgo From Ashok.Swain@pcr.uu.se Thu Oct 3 02:47:18 1996 id sma035164; Thu Oct 3 10:46:40 1996 Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 10:50:58 +0100 To: Racial-Religious-EthnoNationalist Violence Studies From: Ashok.Swain@pcr.uu.se (Ashok Swain) Subject: Conflicts over Bangladeshi Migration to India A new book has been published by the Dept. of Peace and Conflict research of Uppsala University, Sweden on the Ganges River Dispute and Bangladeshi Migration to India. Title of the Book: "The Environmental Trap: The Ganges River Diversion, Bangladeshi Migration and Conflicts in India" Author of the book: Dr. Ashok Swain To order the book, Contact: Dept. of Peace and Conflict Research Box-514 751 20 Uppsala Sweden Tel. No. +46-18-18 23 49 Fax No. +46-18-69 51 02 Abstract of the Book "THe Environmental Trap" A substantial amount of research work has been recently devoted in establishing that the environmental destruction may become the cause of the conflict by itself. Environmental destruction, besides being the immediate factor in fuelling competition over natural resources, can also potentially lead to loss of source of living, which may result in the migration of the affected population. The resulting mass migration may bring alteration to the power equation among the various actors in the host society and that actuate them to take actions. In this study, an attempt has been made to develop a conceptual framework of conceivable social conflicts that are more likely to develop in an environmental migration induced scarcity situation. In order to test some of the ideas of the framework, a case study was conducted in South Asia. India and Bangladesh are in a long-standing dispute over the sharing of the water of the River Ganges. Since 1975, India is diverting most of the dry-season flow of this river to one of her internal rivers, before it reaches Bangladesh, for her own development. This water diversion at Farakka Barrage has affected agricultural and industrial production, disrupted domestic water supply, fishing and navigation, changed the hydraulic character of the rivers and the ecology of the Delta in the down-stream areas. These trans-border and human-inflicted environmental changes have resulted in the loss of the sources of living of a large population in the south-western part of Bangladesh and have necessitated their migration in the pursuit of survival. The absence of alternatives in the other parts of the country has left no other option for these displaced Bangladeshis but to migrate into India. The large-scale migration of the Muslim migrants into Hindu dominated India from the late 1970s has culminated in a number of native-migrant conflicts in the receiving society. The Indian state of Assam, which received a large portion of these migrants, was the first place to experience the native-migrant conflict and it has now spread to some other parts of India. The BJP, the most powerful Hindu fundamentalist political party in India, has started using the Muslim migration from Bangladesh as a major electoral issue in its pursuit of power. The Indian Government's attempt to deport the migrants back to Bangladesh has now been a serious issue of contention among these two south-Asian neighbours. According to the findings of the case study, environmental destruction-even that resulting from 'development projects' like Farakka barrage-can lead to the loss of sources of living and resultant mass population movements. These migrants in turn come in conflict with indigenous populations in the receiving areas-in this case, in various parts of India, which is the culprit for the environmental destruction. So, a powerful state may able to cause serious environmental destruction on the territories of other countries for its own short-term development, but that does not connote that it can stay out of the spectrum of reverberation of that destruction. The possibility of environmental migration from the environmentally destroyed region may trap the powerful state in a difficult situation, which it had failed to anticipate beforehand while carrying out its own development projects. From ajkosten@magigimmix.xs4all.nl Thu Oct 3 03:45:20 1996 From: "Arthur Kosten" To: RACE-POL@ACADCOMP.CMP.ILSTU.EDU, REVS@csf.colorado.edu, social-theory@mailbase.ac.uk, sps-emi%enlace.bitnet@listserv.net Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 10:43:55 +0000 Subject: Update on Virtual Library Migration and Ethnic Relations Reply-to: ajkosten@xs4all.nl *** Apologies for cross-posting *** For those interested in Migration and Ethnic Relations, Below is a list of new resources in the Virtual Library Migration and Ethnic Relations, the largest collection of Internet resources in the field. You can find the Virtual Library at: http://www.ruu.nl/ercomer/wwwvl/ Please do not forget to bookmark the Virtual Library pages for future reference. Currently the Virtual Library gives access to about 250 major Internet resources in the field of Migration and Ethnic Relations, and many search facilities that can help you to find your way on the Internet. If you want to receive regular updates on new resources in the WWW Virtual Library Migration and Ethnic Relations, you can subscribe to the announcements mailinglist. Subscription is free. To subscribe, all you have to do is send a message 'subscribe wwwvl-mer-announce Your Name' to listserv@alcazar.com New 3 October, 1996 ARiC ARiC, Rotterdam, the Netherlands URL: http://www.aric.nl/ Resource Category: Documentation Centers (NGO's) Subject Category: Racism and Discrimination ARiC is a Documentation- and Advisory Centre focused on combatting racism and discrimination and stimulating good inter-ethnic relations. Information is mainly in Dutch, and includes online databases with publications and addresses and the online newsletter Zebra. [Description from: Arthur J. Kosten (A.J.Kosten@fsw.ruu.nl) / 26 September, 1996] CIEMI - Centre d'Information et d'Etudes sur les Migrations Internationales Prencipe Lorenzo, Paris, France URL: http://members.aol.com/ciemiparis/ Resource Category: Research Centers (Documentation Centers) Subject Category: Migration (Culture, Ethnicity and Ethnic Identity) Le CIEMI (Centre d'Information et d'Etudes sur les Migrations Internationales est une Association 1901 dont le but est l',tude et la sensibilisation - par la documentation, l'information et l',dition d'ouvrages - aux migrations internationales comme facteur de transformation et de recomposition du paysage social, culturel et religieux des soci,t,s nationales. Le CIEMI publie deux revues: Migrations Soci,t, (bimestrielle) ; Migrations Europe (mensuelle). A travers son activit, documentaire (14.000 ouvrages; 300 revues; 50.000 r,f,rences bibliographiques consultables par ordinateur composent sa base de ressouces) dans le domaine des migrations, le CIEMI contribue . la connaissance des ph,nomSnes migratoires. [Description from: Maffioletti Gianmario & Prencipe Lorenzo (ciemiparis@aol.com) / 27 September, 1996] ECRE - European Council on Refugees and Exiles Milan Shah, London, UK URL: http://www.poptel.org.uk/ein/ecre/ecre.html Resource Category: NGO's (Research Related Sites) Subject Category: Migration (Human Rights) The European Council on Refugees and Exiles (ECRE) is an organisation for cooperation between more than 50 non-governmental organisations in Europe concerned with refugees. ECRE's objective is to promote through joint analysis, research and information exchange, a humane and generous asylum policy in Europe. ECRE is concerned with the needs of individuals who seek asylum in Europe and the development of a comprehensive response to the global refugee problem. ECRE's principal activities may be summarised under four main headings: POLICY ANALYSIS AND ADVOCACY; LEGAL ANALYSIS AND NETWORKING; INFORMATION AND DOCUMENTATION; CENTRAL AND EASTERN EUROPEAN PROGRAMME. ECRE's home-page offers at the moment mainly information on its own organization and activities, arranged under headers as SPECIALISED SEMINARS, EUROPEAN LEGAL NETWORK ON ASYLUM (ELENA), PUBLICATIONS. [Description from: Joost van Beek (mbranco@fsw.ruu.nl) / 26 September, 1996] Forum on Developing Countries Silva Ferretti - Politecnico di Torino, Torino, Italy URL: http://obelix.polito.it/forum/welcome.htm Resource Category: Research Related Sites (Academic Departments and Courses) Subject Category: Settlement and Housing The Forum on Developing Countries is aimed at providing information about architecture, planning, housing and, generally, habitat related issues in and for developing countries. It has a perspective on communication, training, education. [Description from: Silva Ferretti (forum@araxp.polito.it) / 16 September, 1996] HHRF - Hungarian Human Rights Foundation HHRF, New York, USA URL: http://www.hhrf.org/ Resource Category: Topical Information (Documentation Centers) Subject Category: Nationalism and Ethnic Conflict (Human Rights) The Hungarian Human Rights Foundation (HHRF), initially Committee for Human Rights in Rumania, was formed in 1976 to alert the public opinion and political leadership of the United States and other Western countries to the gross human rights violations against national minorities in Rumania. The Foundation is now working on behalf of the ethnic Hungarians who live as minorities in Croatia, Serbia, Slovenia, Slovakia and Ukraine, as well as in Rumania itself. The Foundation serves as a clearing-house of information for Western governments, human rights organizations, the media and the general public. The Foundation provides services in four primary areas: * Monitoring, Research and Analysis; *Publications, Lectures and Information Services; *Representation at Domestic and International Forums; *Samizdat and Dissident Assistance; Relief Funds. At the moment, the information offered by the HHRF on-line is limited to it's own organisation and activities and a link to the RMDSz home-page. [Description from: Joost van Beek (mbranco@fsw.ruu.nl) / 26 September, 1996] Humanist Center of Cultures Beate Parra, New York, USA URL: http://humanism.org/Cultures Resource Category: NGO's Subject Category: Prejudice and Xenophobia (Racism and Discrimination) Humanist Center of Cultures promotes the dialogue among the different cultures of New York City through events, meetings of personal development work and the magazine "DiverseCity". [Description from: Beate Parra (beate@chelsea.ios.com) / 4 September, 1996] IEMA - Instituto Euromediterraneo de Migraciones y Asilo IEMA, Madrid, Espaa URL: http://www.isid.es/ongs/IEMA Resource Category: NGO's (Research Programs) Subject Category: Migration (General) El Instituto Euromediterraneo de Migraciones y Asilo es una organizacion sin fin lucrativo, constituida por las dos organizaciones sindicales mas importantes de Espaa (CC.OO. y UGT) y dos ong's (ASTI y CEAR). Las migraciones, el asilo y la libre circulacion son los grandes ejes de su actuacion, a trav,s de: realizacion y difusion de estudios; edicion de publicaciones; organizacion de seminarios y conferencias; actuaciones en las riveras del mediterraneo... [Description from: Francisco Soriano (IEMA@isid.es) / 16 September, 1996] INS - U.S. Immigration and Naturalization Service U.S. Immigration and Naturalization Service, Washington, D.C., USA URL: http://www.usdoj.gov/ins/ Resource Category: Government and International Bodies Subject Category: Citizenship and Political Rights (Migration) The U. S. Immigration and Naturalization Service (INS), an agency of the Department of Justice, is responsible for enforcing the laws regulating the admission of foreign-born persons (i.e., aliens) to the United States and for administering various immigration benefits, including the naturalization of resident aliens. The INS website includes information on the agency, its activities, and various bits and pieces of information on immigration to the United States. [Description from: Arthur J, Kosten (A.J.Kosten@fsw.ruu.nl) / 3 October, 1996] IOM - International Organization for Migration IOM Information Channeling Service, Geneva, Switzerland URL: http://www.iom.ch Resource Category: Government and International Bodies (Documentation Centers) Subject Category: Migration (Social Aspects) The International Organization for Migration is an intergovermental organization with over 100 member and observer states. IOM assists migrants with both emergency and non-urgent movements, but is also strongly involved in both pre- and post-migration activities such as medical services, integration/information programs and migration for development programs. The Migration Home Page is designed to provide up-to-date information on a variety of migration related topics, including legistation, Who's Who and What's Where in the world of migration, recent research and studies, Audio-visuals, etc., as well as updated links to others working in this field. [Description from: Michael J. Barton (BARTON@GENEVA.IOM.CH) / 25 September, 1996] KWMC - Kitchener-Waterloo Multicultural Centre KWMC, Kitchener, Ontario, Canada URL: http://www.golden.net/~kwmc Resource Category: NGO's (Other Information) Subject Category: Agencies (Settlement and Housing) The Kitchener-Waterloo Multicultural Centre is a community-based non-profit organization dedicated to assisting new Canadians integrate into the local community. We offer direct settlement services, and provide cross-cultural sensitivity and anti-racism training and information to the general public. Online services include links to relevant sites for our work, a listing of Canadian immigrant-service organizations who have an online presence, information about community integration, and information for other non-profits to make use of the Internet in their work. [Description from: Marco Campana (kwmc@golden.net, campana@sentex.net) / 30 August, 1996] Migration Meetings and Conferences International Organization for Migration (IOM), Switzerland URL: http://www.iom.ch/meetings.htm Resource Category: Conferences and Meetings Subject Category: Migration This Migration Meetings and Conferences page by the International Organization for Migration lists events from around the world in the field of migration. [Description from: Arthur J. Kosten (A.J.Kosten@fsw.ruu.nl) / 1 October, 1996] NIC - Network for Intercultural Communication Australia NIC, Canberra Australia URL: http://www.pcug.org.au/~jgunn/hmpage1a.htm Resource Category: Other Information (Conferences and Meetings) Subject Category: Culture, Ethnicity and Ethnic Identity (Migration) NIC is a network of regional Australian groups of people interested in pursuing understanding of cultural diversity [Description from: John Gunn (jgunn@pcug.org.au) / 12 September, 1996] OPU - Organization for Aid to Refugees OPU, Prague, Czech Republic URL: http://www.ecn.cz/opu/Indexan.htm Resource Category: NGO's Subject Category: Social Aspects (Education) The Organization for Aid to Refugees (OPU) is a non-profit, non-governmental, humanitarian ogranization based in the Czech Republic. Founded in 1991, OPU has been primarily concerned with assisting refugees in central and eastern Europe. The Organization for Aid to Refugees insists on implementing programs, such as educational assistance, housing programs, children's activities and the dissemination of information in refugee languages which promote self-sufficiency and hope for refugees. The OPU home-page offers information about the projects it is currently involved in, and on the publications they are (co-)distributing: Apel, Mostovi (a Bosnian-language refugee journal), and Via Europa (a European journal focusing on socio-political issues). [Description from: Joost van Beek (mbranco@fsw.ruu.nl) / 26 September, 1996] RMDSZ - The Democratic Alliance of Hungarians in Romania maintained by World-Wide Link, Inc. for the HHRF, Bucuresti, Rumania URL: http://www.hhrf.org/rmdsz/index.html Resource Category: Topical Information Subject Category: Culture, Ethnicity and Ethnic Identity (Legislation) The Democratic Alliance of Hungarians in Romania (DAHR) was founded to represent the interests of Romania's Hungarian minority. Since the 1990 and 1992 elections taking part in the legislature (now 12 senators, 27 deputies), it has assumed a double role. On the one hand, it "is the partner of those political forces which fight for the establishment of democracy, rule of law and market economy. On the other hand, one of its major tasks is to assert the human rights and fundamental freedoms of the Hungarian community through internal self-determination within the framework of the constitutional order. The party's home-page includes, next to some general information about the hungarian minority in Rumania and about the party itself, memoranda and position papers. [Description from: Joost van Beek (mbranco@fsw.ruu.nl) / 26 September, 1996] SAMP - Southern African Migration Project SAMP, Kingston, South-Africa URL: http://info.queensu.ca/samp/ Resource Category: Research Programs Subject Category: Migration The Southern African Migration Project is a three-year, multi-faceted research programme designed to facilitate the formulation and implementation of new policy initiatives on cross-border population migration in the region and to promote public awareness on the role, status and contribution of foreign immigrants of African origin in South Africa. [Description from: Self description / 3 October, 1996] the Swedish Immigrant Institute Miguel Benito, Bor+s, Sweden URL: http://www.algonet.se/~migrant Resource Category: NGO's (Documentation Centers) Subject Category: Migration The Swedish Immigrant Institute is a non govermental organization which main porpose is to serve as a centre for information and documentation on immigration and refugee issues. The library has the largest collection in Scandinavia of litterature on migration from different points of view. The Institute also serves as a secritatiat for three national immigration organizations in Sweden. Furthermore the Institute conducts different kinds of cultural activities such as arranging artexibitions and concerts and book publishing. Online services include: information on the Institute, its library, the three national immigration organizations and other activities. [Description from: Miguel Benito (migrant@algonet.se) / 11 September, 1996] U.S. Commission on Immigration Reform U.S. Commission on Immigration Reform, USA URL: http://www.utexas.edu/lbj/uscir/ Resource Category: Government and International Bodies Subject Category: Migration The mandate of the Commission is to review and evaluate the implementation and impact of U.S. immigration policy and to transmit to the Congress reports of its findings and recommendations. The website contains information on the commission, its activities and summaries of reports to Congress [Description from: Arthur J. Kosten (A.J.Kosten@fsw.ruu.nl) / 3 October, 1996] _________________________________________________________________ Arthur J. Kosten European Research Centre on Migration and Ethnic Relations P.O. Box 80.140, 3584 CS Utrecht, The Netherlands Phone: +31 30 2532968, Fax: +31 30 2534733 e-mail: ajkosten@fsw.ruu.nl ERCOMER website: http://www.ruu.nl/ercomer Virtual Library: http://www.ruu.nl/ercomer/wwwvl/wwwvlmer.html _________________________________________________________________ From PARK@unhcr.ch Thu Oct 3 04:26:55 1996 Date: Thu, 03 Oct 1996 12:27:34 +0200 From: Susin Park To: race-pol@acadcomp.cmp.ilstu.edu, ercomer-news@alcazar.com, ethnic@asuvm.inre.asu.edu, eram-list@bradford.ac.uk, ACUNS-IO@BROWNVM.BROWN.EDU, eth-net@cms.cc.wayne.edu, iglhrc.ern@conf.igc.apc.org, revs@csf.colorado.edu, hrb@derechos.org, forintlaw@law.wuacc.edu, hrights@lists.best.com, migra-list@lists.utah.edu, ajkosten@magigimmixxs4all.nl, huridocs-gen-l@sonne.comlink.apc.org, asil-innovations@ming.law.vill.edu, forced-migration@mailbase.ac.uk, int-boundaries@mailbase.ac.uk, unhcr.cdr@oln.comlink.apc.org, Ethnic-L@uhccvm.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu, rre@weber.ucsd.edu, EWNET-L@YORKU.CA Subject: UNHCR to Launch New Internet Presence (This announcement has been cross-posted; please forgive the duplication.) The United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees announced today the launch of a new Internet site to focus world opinion on refugees. The new UNHCR World Wide Web site, located at http://www.unhcr.ch, will feature a comprehensive look at the agency#s existing documentation for the general public, along with texts outlining refugee issues in 90 countries, and a legal information database drawn from the REFWORLD CD-Rom that is already produced by the agency. #I am delighted that we can present this new resource,# said High Commissioner Sadako Ogata. #I think it will prove to be not just a very valuable research tool but also an intriguing new look at some old and difficult issues. I think we#ll be seeing this site consulted by school-children as well as university students and people involved in refugee programs. This diversity is very important to me. It#s vital that we get the message out as widely as possible: refugees are not a threat, they are simply ordinary people in need of protection.# The launch of UNHCR#s new Web site has been timed to coincide with the launch of a ground-breaking companion Web site that focuses on displaced people in Bosnia. WITNESS (located at http://www.worldmedia.fr/witness) has been co-produced by UNHCR and a French Internet company, WorldMedia Live. The site features panoramic virtual-reality photographs which provide a startlingly vivid look at life in Bosnia, and which are virtually unique on the Internet. UNHCR welcomes links with its Web site and quotations of any information regarding refugee issues. However, UNHCR discourages extensive reproduction on other Internet sites of information produced by the agency. From LUUKKA@Sato.Helsinki.FI Thu Oct 3 09:02:47 1996 From: "Panu Luukka" Organization: University of Helsinki To: zapata@together, revs@csf.colorado.edu Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 18:04:51 EET DST Subject: Ebeneezer Scrooge and others Dear Mr "eZ" and others, Let me ask You three questions: 1) Do You think that only Blacks can do research about racism? 2) Do You think that only Jews can do research about anti-semitism? 3) Do You think that only Anti-Facists can do research about facism? For Equality, Panu Luukka From coatesrd@casmail.muohio.edu Thu Oct 3 09:40:01 1996 From: "Rodney Coates" To: "revs@csf.colorado.edu" Date: Thu, 03 Oct 96 11:39:30 +0 Reply-To: "Rodney Coates" Subject: Re: Ebeneezer Scrooge and others I will not waste too much bandswidth with this response as i have previously sent this out but check out my earlier review of Feagin et ot new book..By the way Feagin is white, also you might want to check out Cozel's Savage Inequalities..he too is white, or check out Edna Bonicich's Middle Men Minorities..she is a white female..or any of the work of shall i go on... Feagin's New book: A must read:::: I am not one for high praise, but the new book written by Joe R. Feagin, Hernan Vera and Nikitah Imani titled "The Agony of Education: Black Students at White Colleges and Universities" is one where such is certainly due. This book looks at how the rhetoric of equality and openess is not matched by the calousness and what I would call the insanity of the Reality that black students face. The authors demonstrate the barriers (structurally, in terms of hostile white peers and instructors, and recruitment). The problems are many, not least of which the fact that we in academia refuse to acknowledge that we are part of institutions which have perserved separate but equal, have help to ghetorize, issolate and ignore blacks (both student and professors)m and that we lack the will to change. This is a must read for those who still look at these situations through 'glass darklies..rose colored glasses'' or simply refuse to believe that we in America and especially the academe have a serious race problem. And the problem is not with, I might conclude, the black students but with the broader white oriented establishement. Well done and praise to you Joe Feagon and your collegues..for this brilliant piece of sociological research. Now the question before us is..do we care? umoja Only when lions have historians will hunters cease being heroes. African Proverb Without struggle there is no progress. Frederick Douglass The most potent weapon of the oppressor is the mind of the oppressed. Steven Biko yours in the struggle Rodney D. Coates Director of Black World Studies Associate Professor of Sociology Miami University Oxford, Ohio 45056 513 529-1235 email: coatesrd@casmail.muohio.edu umoja Only when lions have historians will hunters cease being heroes. African Proverb Without struggle there is no progress. Frederick Douglass The most potent weapon of the oppressor is the mind of the oppressed. Steven Biko yours in the struggle Rodney D. Coates Director of Black World Studies Associate Professor of Sociology Miami University Oxford, Ohio 45056 513 529-1235 email: coatesrd@casmail.muohio.edu From Don_R._Calkins@commonlink.com Fri Oct 4 05:35:09 1996 From: Don_R._Calkins@commonlink.com (Don R. Calkins) Reply-To: Don_R._Calkins@commonlink.com To: COVR%ECUVM1.BITNET@mitvma.mit.edu, revs@csf.colorado.edu, Spirituality/Religion%*@commonlink.com Subject: FWD Re: advisory comm on religious freedom Date: 04 Oct 1996 06:02:53 GMT Organization: Common Link On-Line service +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++fwd++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ By Laurie Goodstein Washington Post Staff Writer Sunday, September 22 1996; Page A03 The Washington Post <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The administration is forming an advisory committee on religious freedom to be housed in the State Department and composed of about 20 prominent religious leaders and scholars who will make recommendations to the secretary of state, according to White House officials who requested anonymity. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> White House sources say the administration was reluctant to appear to focus on Islamic Middle Eastern nations for oppression of Christians, when regimes of many kinds are persecuting many different religious minorities. Although Christians are most often the targets when the persecution is based solely on religious identity, one White House source said, the advisory committee will be charged with looking at all problems of religious oppression and intolerance. Given that, the proposed committee includes two Muslims, two Jews, one Baha'i, and several scholars with expertise in Eastern religions, according to a list of candidates obtained by The Washington Post. There are Catholic, Protestant and Orthodox Christians, but only two could be said to represent the evangelical community. The advisory committee, to be announced "very soon," another White House official said, is charged with making concrete recommendations in areas such as diplomacy, refugees, and using religious leaders to resolve disputes. It will be housed in the State Department's Office of Democracy and Human Rights and Labor. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++end++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ "Know ye not why We created you all from the same dust? That no one should exalt himself over the other." - Baha'u'llah : Race Unity pages - http://www.commonlink.com/~chiron_rising/race/race.html: IP = 204.77.198.71 From LUUKKA@Sato.Helsinki.FI Fri Oct 4 05:54:38 1996 From: "Panu Luukka" Organization: University of Helsinki To: Racial-Religious-EthnoNationalist Violence Studies Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 13:44:31 EET DST Subject: To "eZ" Dear Everybody, Here we go again. There are few more comments needed: "eZ" wrote: > Something in your post did interest me, however. > This equality to which you refer, what might the standard for this > be in your view? "eZ" is refering to my "For Equality" phrase in the end of my last post. My "answer" to "eZ": If You don't mind I'd like to remind You that my post before that had "Peace AND Love" phrase in the end. It's surprising that You don't want me to reveal my standars for them too? Let's stop this "discussion", it's not fruitful for anyone. For Everybody, Panu Luukka From spector@calumet.purdue.edu Fri Oct 4 11:20:48 1996 X-NUPop-Charset: English Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 12:17:20 -0600 (CST) From: "Alan Spector" Sender: spector@calumet.purdue.edu Reply-To: spector@calumet.purdue.edu To: revs@csf.colorado.edu Subject: Fw: Immigration/Business View >From Alan Spector, REVS Editor: The following appeared on the PSN network. It is of interest to many members of REVS ------------------------------ In case you were wondering about the true nature of immigration "reform", here are some excerpts from today's Chicago Tribune Business Section story on the new immigration law. EMPLOYERS GAIN UNDER NEW LAW ON IMMIGRANTS REQUIREMENTS EASED; RIGHTS GROUPS UNHAPPY By Vincent J. Schodolski, Tribune Staff Writer Web-posted Thursday, October 3, 1996; 5:59 a.m. CDT Dateline: LOS ANGELES The new immigration law signed this week by President Clinton is being welcomed by businesses big and small after many provisions strongly opposed by employers were stripped away from the final legislation. The law also reduces some requirements businesses view as costly and cumbersome and leaves essentially untouched several programs favored by employers. "We are very happy with the results," said Cherae Bishop, an immigration law specialist for the National Association of Manufacturers. Not so happy are immigrant rights organizations. They say Congress caved in to pressure from business lobbies and gutted provisions of the legislation that would have protected legal immigrants. .... "Employers are justifiably happy," said Cecilia Munoz of the National Council of La Raza civil rights organization. "It is actually easier under this law for businesses that hire illegal aliens." One feature of the new law that pleases business is a provision that dramatically scales back an employer's responsibility to verify the immigration status of people it hires. Under the old law, 29 different forms of identification could be produced to prove that an individual was entitled to work in the United States. Employers had to be familiar with all of them and attest to their validity when filing a form with the government. Failure to comply with the rules, or errors in doing so, could have led to swift and stiff fines. Now, however, only six documents are considered valid forms of proof of immigration status. In addition, employers who fail to file the proper notification or who make errors in filing are no longer liable for immediate fines. The new law gives employers a 10-day grace period to correct any mistakes or omissions. "Overall the law does a good job of curbing illegal immigration without placing burdens on businessmen and turning them into (Immigration and Naturalization Service) agents," said Nelson Litterst, a legislative representative for the National Federation of Independent Businesses. .... Another aspect of the new law that pleased businesses was the continuation of special visas granted to foreign workers with high levels of skills. The so-called H-1B visas allow people from other countries with specific skills, such as computer technicians and engineers, to work legally in this country. Some companies favor such workers because they are often willing to work for lower salaries than U.S. citizens with a similar level of skills. One area where business was disappointed was on the question of temporary visas for migrant workers. "We had hoped for some reform of that program," said Brian Little, a legislative specialist for the American Farm Bureau. He said that if farmers have abundant harvests this year, there could be a shortage of farm labor. He suggested that this would be compounded if beefed-up border surveillance prevents illegal aliens from entering the country. "Our fear is that if you start to see greater interdiction, we may start seeing shortages of labor," Little said. The present program grants visas of up to six months to field laborers, but Little said that farmers have found the system "unwieldy." He said he hopes the new Congress will take up the issue again in January. Although the new law almost doubles the size of the U.S. Border Patrol by adding 5,000 new agents over the next five years, Congress stripped away a provision that would have added 350 new INS inspectors to verify that employers were paying workers at least the minimum wage. Immigrant supporters said this would lead to exploitation. "There is practically no workplace enforcement in this law," said Bruce Goldstein of the Farmworker Justice Fund. "The people who work for less than minimum wage are people who are illegals, who have no recourse." The new law had authorized the INS to hire 300 new workplace inspectors annually for the next three years to verify workers' legal status, but Congress did not appropriate money to pay for the inspectors. ------------------------------------------------------------------- John P. Walsh 312-996-4663 (phone) Department of Sociology 312-996-5104 (fax) 1007 W. Harrison St, 4112 BSB JWalsh@uic.edu (email) University of Illinois at Chicago Chicago, IL 60607-7140 From mweigand@usa.net Fri Oct 4 14:24:16 1996 Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 14:23:59 -0600 (MDT) From: mweigand@usa.net Subject: Re: Milton Kleim: FORMER White Nationalist proposes researc To: LUUKKA@Sato.Helsinki.FI, Racial-Religious-EthnoNationalist Violence Studies Thanks for your comments. One book which I would recommend to you is called "Culture Wars" by American sociologist James Hunter. It describes the religious right's vision of America compared with other perspectives. I hope this is helpful to you. -=MW=- From mweigand@usa.net Fri Oct 4 17:05:30 1996 Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 17:04:48 -0600 (MDT) From: mweigand@usa.net Subject: Re: FWD Re: advisory comm on religious freedom To: Don_R._Calkins@commonlink.com, Racial-Religious-EthnoNationalist Violence Studies In-Reply-To: <1868689374.3499738@commonlink.com> This sounds like a good idea. Religion has a long history of being directly or indirectly involved in international conflicts. Religiously-based wars are often more severe and long lasting than wars over territory or political differences. In fact, a good case can be made that if religion were eliminated from the world, it would be a better place to live. Would anyone disagree with this statement? -=MW=- From coatesrd@casmail.muohio.edu Sat Oct 5 11:41:17 1996 Date: Sat, 05 Oct 1996 13:38:37 -0400 From: "Rodney D. Coates" Reply-To: coatesrd@casmail.muohio.edu Organization: Miami University To: PARK@unhcr.ch ethnic@asuvm.inre.asu.edu, eram-list@bradford.ac.uk, ACUNS-IO@BROWNVM.BROWN.EDU, eth-net@cms.cc.wayne.edu, iglhrc.ern@conf.igc.apc.org, revs@csf.colorado.edu, hrb@derechos.org, forintlaw@law.wuacc.edu, hrights@lists.best.com, migra-list@lists.utah.edu, ajkosten@magigimmixxs4all.nl, huridocs-gen-l@sonne.comlink.apc.org, asil-innovations@ming.law.vill.edu, forced-migration@mailbase.ac.uk, int-boundaries@mailbase.ac.uk, unhcr.cdr@oln.comlink.apc.org, Ethnic-L@uhccvm.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu, rre@weber.ucsd.edu, EWNET-L@YORKU.CA Subject: Race and Ethnic Relations: Conflict Resolution and the Internet References: (This announcement has been cross-posted; please forgive the duplication.) Moderators please allow this message to go forward on your list..thanks Rodney Coates To: Racial-Religious-EthnoNationalist Violence Studies We have reached the point of decision. Several have indicated that this course is needed. We are currently asking those who are serious about offering this course in the spring of this academic institution to let us know. The readings are intended to be suggestive, where specific readings will be dictated by availability at host institutions, interests in specific regional conflicts, and our collaborative effort. Here is the gneral syllubus and information regarding this course. I look forward to hearing from you. I would like to thank all the many who took part in developing this course from England, Germany, Switzerland, and throughout the United States. The course looks to be an exciting one. Now the task before us is to begin the process of coordinating. For those who have been contemplating offering this course at your institution there is a little time ..at least 2 months or so to get on board. Look for future updates to come as they develop. Again, thanks all who participated in this developmental stage, and for those who will come on board..there is plenty of room at the table. Below you will find the course as it currently exist, I expect that the syllabus will be further modified for local partner issues (i.e., if a particular set of readings will be more appropriate for your location please advise and we will make adjustments). Gotta go, but stay in touch as I will also.... BWS 380.H - Race and Ethnic Relations: Conflict Resolution and the Internet Course Objectives: Xenophobia has reemerged throughout Europe, while Racism and ethnic hostilities are on the rise in America. Scapegoats and groups are being singled out for hostile reactions, discrimination, and hate. Uncertainty, fear, economic recessions, political instabilities are the most identifiable causes of these problems. In the light of the latest wave of xenophobia and racism it is increasingly essential that students become involved in race relations and conflict resolution 1. To enhance student awareness of the impact of perceived realities upon intergroup relations, misunderstandings, and hostilities. 2. To widen the student's frame of reference in studying race relations and conflict resolution through interaction with students in other institutions, both in the United States and abroad. 3. To develop student awareness of the many forums and perspectives available on the Internet from either enhance or undermine race relations. 4. To stimulate individual research into identifying, analyzing, and cross-culturally comparing race relations problems and proposing possible action plans for conflict resolution. Teaching Strategies: 1. Lecture 2. Discussion 3. Role Playing 4. ListServ readings and discussions 5. Internet discussions with peers taking similar course 6. Assigned readings Evaluation Methods: 1. At designated intervals (usually every two weeks), students submit a two-page paper that summarizes discussions they have had with ListServ participants. 2. Class participation in seminar discussions. 3. Final paper on a pre-approved topic on a race relations topic and the proposed conflict resolution. Class Structure to Meet Learning Objectives: 1. Each student "hooks up" with peers in courses elsewhere to form electronic discussion groups for weekly "chats" on the assigned topic. 2. Within the seminar class, students participate in open discussion based the readings and electronic input. 3. Instructor serves as a facilitator in generating discussions both in class and on the Internet, guiding students into a greater understanding of the subject while also developing further their critical thinking skills in the issues, hidden agendas, and social constructions of reality that impact upon both race relations and the ongoing electronic discussions. The nature of the Class: (I) Syllabi and bibliographic resources could be shared via E-mail. (II) Electronic "bulletin boards" would announce topics or themes for dialogue or debate. (III) Faculty and student discussion groups could "talk" back and forth - respond to questions, "solve" problems. (IV) Lectures would be sent via E-mail and made available for reading at any time. (Electronic TEAM-TEACHING) Some products of this process: "Conflict Resolution" course that results in or produces: (a) an innovative mode of teaching and learning, (b) instructional networking among social scientists, (3) an electronically generated set of resources (e.g., films, bibliographies), (4) a teaching product that could be submitted to the ASA Teaching Resources Division, and/or (5) "solutions" to troubling problems of the time. Focused in class discussions featuring role playing. This exercise carried out in a series of critical negotiations and debates could lead students into deeper discussions of how perceived history feeds into racial/ethnic hatreds which combine with current security concerns. How these factors place obstacles while negotiating lasting solutions to ethnic violence. By devoting time in class over an extended period to role playing, students may gain some understanding of how deeply felt some hatreds are and what measures would be needed to move beyond them. Rational: There are literally thousands of listservs devoted to providing a forum for specific ethnic and/or racial groups. One can find every variant of perspective, from racist to racialist, antagonists to protagonists, those whose aim is racial conciliation to perpetuating racial and ethnic discord. Students, from multiple universities will be encouraged to tap into these listservs. This will provide what might be called some superficial and typically a more detailed first hand introduction to various sources of conflict. After an initial period introduction, surfing of the net and scanning published material, students will be encouraged to select a particular regional conflict and pair up with colleagues at other institutions. Teams will be constructed which will be devoted to a particular side of the conflict ( for example: If Ireland were taken as a regional location, one set of students will take the side of Protestants while another will take the Catholics. In America, one set could represent Native Americans living on reservations while another federal or local townspeople. In Canada it might be between French and English. In the middle east one set obviously could take Palestinian while others will take the position of Jewish settlers. ). Through research and dialogue the student teams would explore the historical, psychological, economic, political, sociological and contemporary sources of conflict from the unique vantage point of the particular group. By looking at the multiple facets of the problem through interdesciplinarian lenses slanted from the unique perspective of the particular groups greater clarity will be provided regarding the exact nature of various conflicts. Through continuous and regular dialogue with fellow students over the Internet a more dynamic intellectual process will follow. Syllabus: BWS: 495 "Race/Ethnic Relations: Conflict Resolution and the Internet - Process and Solutions" - A Seniors Honors Course Pedagogical Rational All too often racial/ethnic groups (in America and throughout the world) and issues relating to their existence are objectified. Such objectification reduces racial/ethnic group existence to that of problems that are then researched, examined, and discussed but rarely solved. The consequences of this approach are that racial/ethnic groups and problems become inseparable in the minds of the student and lay public. Thus rather then the problems faced by racial/ethnic groups, the subject of inquiry becomes racial/ethnic group problems, the problem of racial/ethnic groups, etc. Historically, to the extent that solutions are rendered, they are done so with the aim of rehabilitating racial/ethnic groups. While the problem(s) remain(s) unresolved. Alternatively, a problem focused research concentrates on symptomatic discussions rarely identifying underlying causes, symbiotic relationships (between problems), and structural processes that inhibit identification of specific solutions and/or successful policy formulation. What this means is that we periodically rediscover the same problem set(s), offer typically the same cosmetic solutions which results in frustration and apathy when our efforts prove ineffectual. It is envisioned that this capstone course would be process and solutions oriented. The course would have three primary foci: (1) Problem identification (i.e., analysis of the historical, social, political and ethical context by which a problem set has emerged), (2) process identification (i.e., cross-cultural analysis of programs and policies implemented to resolve similar types of problem sets), and (3) solution generation (i.e., the synthesis of 1 and 2 above into an action plan aimed at resolving, solving, eliminating the problem set). This capstone course is designed to be labor intensive (both for students and faculty). A seminar format, with its implicit informal/intimate character, would best accommodate this course. Class size would therefore be limited to no more then 20 upperclass students. While this capstone would not specifically require that students either complete a BWS thematic sequence or be BWS majors, it does assume as prerequisites one or more of the following: Research and Data Analysis, Policy Design, Understanding the history, politics, theories, sociology of the racial/ethnic groups. Obviously, the more of these prerequisites the student has mastered the greater potential benefits of such an educational experience. Optimally (and with the understanding that no one student will have mastered these areas), the student makeup of the class would maximize each of these areas thereby increasing the group learning experience for all. `Students will accomplish the following and consequently learn the following because of this course. 1) Create and maintain a listsrv linking students on the Internet concerned with Conflict Resolution 2) Understand the nature of different types of ethnic/racial conflict to include history, theory, and practice 3) Understand the nature and complexity of conflict resolution 4) acquire knowledge and formulate ideas regarding conflict resolution overall and particularly as it applies to a specific conflict situation. Optimally, seminar students will interact with their peers at other universities on a ListServ devoted to conflict resolution. At the very least, students will identify news groups and other listsrvs devoted to ethnicity, race, and/or conflict resolution. This will provide a practical medium to discuss and expand students understanding and knowledge of various types of racial/ethnic conflict and its resolution. Readings for this course will come from: Week 1 and 2: Read and discuss: Wilkenson, Doris, "Transforming the Social Order: The Role of the University in Social Change." Sociological Forum 9 (1994): 325-341. Martin Luther King's Where do we go from here: Community or Chaos activity: set up listsrv: Race/ethnic conflict resolution identify other news groups and listsrv on INTERNET which deal with various ethnic and racial groups. Select area conflict interested (groups of 2-3 students will select a particular regional conflict they are interested in knowing more about). Begin research and interaction over net (with net partners at other institutions) regarding the history of this conflict, theories and solution sets. Establish contact with these groups and listsrv's. Establish partnerships with other student colleagues at other participating universities. Week 3 and 4 read and discuss: Volpe, Maria R. "An Urban University-Based Conflict Resolution Program" 1994 Education and Urban Society, 1994, 27, 1, Nov, 22-34. Harris, Albert W."Negotiation Context: An Introductory Essay " 1994 Humboldt Journal of Social Relations, 1994, 20, 2, I-xxv. activity: take these issues apply to regional conflict of choice. Interact with INTERNET colleagues over listsrv, arrive at a consensus re: how it applies. Week 5 and 6: read and discuss: Zoubir, Yahia H., "Protracted Conflict and Failure to Achieve Prenegotiation in the Western Sahara Conflict," 1994, Humboldt Journal of Social Relations, 1994, 20, 2, 1-44. Norman, Alex J., "Black-Korean Relations: From Desperation to Dialogue, or from Shouting and Shooting to Sitting and Talking" 1994, Journal of Multicultural Social Work, 1994, 3, 2, 87-99. Prepare an initial response paper re: policy implications of regional conflict, infuse readings, listsrv discussions into group paper. Submit paper to listsrv for debate and discussion. Week 7 and 8: Discuss and refine group paper based upon INTERNET responses. Resubmit paper to listsrv for review, debate and discussion. Read and discuss: Haj-Yahia, Muhammad M.; Edleson, Jeffrey L. " Predicting the Use of Conflict Resolution Tactics among Engaged Arab-Palestinian Men in Israel" 1994 Journal of Family Violence, 1994, 9, 1, Mar, 47-62. Week 9 and 10 read and discuss: Antonovsky, Aaron , Mburu, F. M.; Waitzkin, Howard; Siegrist, Johannes Complexity, "Conflict, Chaos, Coherence, Coercion and Civility " 1993 Social Science and Medicine, 1993, 37, 8, Oct, 969-981. Engage with listsrv participants re: the relevancy of these observations and determine how this new information and discussions impact upon position/policy paper. Week 11 and 12 read and discuss: "Anti-Semitism and African Americans." Society (September/October, 1994): 45-48. Stone, John "Power, Ethnicity and Conflict Resolution" 1992 Studies in Law, Politics, and Society, 1992, 12(Part A), 89-105. engage with listsrv participants re: the relevancy of these observations and determine how this new information and discussions impact upon position/policy paper. Week 13 and 14 2nd draft of position/policy paper due. Class, INTERNET discussion to follow. Read and discuss Borg, Marian J. "Conflict Management in the Modern World-System"1992 Sociological Forum, 1992, 7, 2, June, 261-282. Week 15: final paper due: Presented on net and in class for discussion, review and revision. End of course rap-up. "Only when lions have Historians will hunters cease being heroes." African Proverb UMOJA, Rodney D. Coates Director of Black World Studies Associate Professor of Sociology Miami University Oxford, Ohio - 45056 PH: 513-5291235 umoja From mweigand@usa.net Fri Oct 4 17:06:47 1996 Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 17:06:25 -0600 (MDT) From: mweigand@usa.net Subject: Re: GUILT AND TRIBAL ROLL INCREASES To: ishgooda@tdi.net, Racial-Religious-EthnoNationalist Violence Studies In-Reply-To: <2.2.16.19961002191709.33d7cf58@tdi.net> Anyone interested in the history of Native Americans would probably benefit from the new PBS series called "The West". It details a lot about the Indian wars, European diseases which decimated the Indian population (often spread deliberately), etc. There is also a series available here in Denver, perhaps not nationwide, called "How the West Was Lost", from the Native American perspective. I watched most of the PBS series, and it reminded me of the "ethnic cleansing" in Bosnia. -=MW=- From mweigand@usa.net Fri Oct 4 17:14:56 1996 Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 17:05:45 -0600 (MDT) From: mweigand@usa.net Subject: Re: Fw: Immigration/Business View To: spector@calumet.purdue.edu, Racial-Religious-EthnoNationalist Violence Studies Your post reminded me of a film/video tape I show in my classes called "America: The Huddled Masses". It a part of a series called the Best of the BBC narrated by Alistair Cooke. It shows clearly how the European immigrants of the early 1900's were seen by American industrialists as a bottomless pool of cheap labor (they could be bought in job lots for 8 cents per hour). In addition, shrewd industrialists always used the newest immigrant groups as strike-breakers. Another good PBS video is "The Price of Profit", about U.S. corporations with factories in Mexico. -=MW=- From al720531@academ02.chi.itesm.mx Sat Sep 21 13:07:54 1996 Date: Sat, 21 Sep 1996 14:24:26 -0500 (CDT) From: "Ericka Farias \"Scarlet\" " To: revs@csf.colorado.edu Subject: Hello everybody!... I'm new on this but I want to learn how to use it. If I understood good this adress is to write to the whole list of people subscribed.. I discovered this adresses because I'm looking for information about the Ku Klux Klan, its history, thoughts, development and also images and I think you can help me. The reason I'm looking for all this is that I have to do a project in my communication class, I'm studying high school in Tec de Monterrey Campus Chihuahua in Mexico and I'm 17 years old. But that is not the only reason, I would like to learn more things about the life and I think here I can do it. I thing this is good also to discuss points of view, try to make a better world and practice my english :) I will be waiting for your answer, I hope you will read this message, because I don't want it to be ignored, I'm really interested. Thanks. Ericka. P.d. If somebody wants to write me my adrees is al720531@academ02.itesm.mx From spector@calumet.purdue.edu Fri Oct 18 07:53:44 1996 X-NUPop-Charset: English Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 08:49:39 -0600 (CST) From: "Alan Spector" Sender: spector@calumet.purdue.edu Reply-To: spector@calumet.purdue.edu To: revs@csf.colorado.edu Subject: Fw: Farrakhan-LaRouche alliance ------------------------------ From: Steve Rosenthal Date: Thu, 17 Oct 1996 19:14:45 +0000 Subject: Farrakhan-LaRouche alliance To PSN and ABS and REVS: The Washington Post coverage of yesterday's "Day of Atonement" rally in New York quoted Manning Marable as stating that the connection between the Nation of Islam and the La Rouche organization "has grown tighter with former LaRouche vice-presidential candidate James Bevel frequently appearing with Farrakhan." I checked the NOI home page and found that James Bevel is listed as "international coordinator" for the "Day of Atonement" rally. The LaRouchites are a fascist organization. LaRoch has worked closely with members of the KKK and the U.S. Nazi Party. LaRouche received funds from South Africa's apartheid-era Bureau of State Security and has close ties to German Nazis. Bevel and a handful of black ministers have helped the LaRouchites attract blacks by helping them peddle fascist conspiracy theories. (This information is summarized by Clarence Lusane in African Americans at the Crossroads, pp. 59-61). The alliance of white and black fascists replicates earlier Zionist collaboration with the Nazis in Europe during the 1930's and 1940's. I would like to know if PSN'ers and ABS'ers have more information about the tightening NOI--LaRouche alliance. Steve Rosenthal (mdr@borg.evms.edu) From SmallW@aol.com Fri Oct 18 08:42:25 1996 From: SmallW@aol.com Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 10:42:22 -0400 To: revs@csf.colorado.edu Subject: re Farrakhan - LaRouche alliance I'm curious; why would any black Americans, including Farrakhan, ever have anything to do with LaRouche if he has close ties to KKK and Nazi elements?? I can't figure this one out. Don't African Americans realize that Nazis would like to have them all either removed or exterminated? Is the lack of leadership and progress so great that fraternizing with hatemongers is becoming mainstream or acceptable? Or are Farrakhan's latest antics with LaRouche, Qaddafi et al. ignorable because they are so far outside the mainstream? I hope they are far outside the mainstream, and that these actions do not bode ill for the future of U.S. security. If Qaddafi is allowed to bankroll activities in the U.S. to the tune of millions of dollars, you can bet he is going to want something in return. I suggest that anyone having real facts, not just hearsay or innuendo, on the topic of LaRouche's ties to Nazis or KKK, and Farrakhan's ties to LaRouche, Qaddafi (Farrakhan was quoted in the Washington Post as calling Qaddafi a "freedom fighter"), or other fascists or terrorists, post those facts to this list and circulate them on the Internet in general so that we can all be informed and not fall prey to fascists with an agenda that only includes certain chosen races. Farrakhan can be an eloquent and charismatic speaker, and thus attract a lot of support; let's make sure we don't look the other way on too many uncomfortable facts about him that fly in the face of what we might want to believe about his good intentions -- lest history repeat itself. Christine Hanson From llurch@networking.stanford.edu Fri Oct 18 11:50:01 1996 Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 10:49:58 -0700 (PDT) From: Rich Graves Reply-To: Rich Graves To: Racial-Religious-EthnoNationalist Violence Studies Subject: Re: Fw: Farrakhan-LaRouche alliance In-Reply-To: <199610180849409690.spector@nwi.calumet.purdue.edu> On Fri, 18 Oct 1996, Alan Spector wrote: > I would like to know if PSN'ers and ABS'ers have more > information about the tightening NOI--LaRouche alliance. I don't know about "tightening," but there are some (perhaps dated) archives at http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/l/larouche.lyndon There's an old (1993) ADL report that mentions LaRouche and the NoI at http://www.pafb.af.mil/deomi/ext.htm The disclaimer at the top of every page ("this information is only for active military") is amusing. -rich From coatesrd@casmail.muohio.edu Tue Oct 22 12:50:51 1996 From: "Rodney Coates" To: "Racial-Religious-EthnoNationalist Violence Studies" Date: Tue, 22 Oct 96 14:47:34 +0 Reply-To: "Rodney Coates" Subject: Character Assassination, Lies and Myths: Molefi Asante Character Assassination, Lies and Myths: Molefi Asante For the past few days there has been a one way conversation where a rumor that first aired in the Philadelphia Inquirer took on the air of truth. I find it strange that when a black man is concerned, we, especially us blacks, are so willing to castigate, scorn or otherwise get on the bandwagon to bring the brother down. The Philadelphia Inquirer story implied that Dr. Asante was being forced to leave his position as chair of the Department of African Studies and even the university, as a result of an "inquiry into charges of plagiarism". Below, I have included a letter from Professor Molefi Asante's Dean and one from the good Dr. Here I would like to spend a minute and discuss Character Assassination and our people. This is an old story, my grandfather said that many blacks are like crabs in a barrel. There is no need for a lid, for as soon as one tries to climb up others quite willingly pull it back down. The eagerness in which we were willing to believe the lies and myths regarding Asante suggests that we are not unlike those crabs. Why is it that few chose to give Molefi a call, but would rather continue to spread the lies which only served to assassinate this good brothers character? Shall we continue to be weapons of our own oppression, or will we grow in wisdom and begin to support our own? Unless the answer is in the affirmative ...we are truly a despised people. If we are to go forward this type of insult must be condemned and not repeated. Rodney c...///96 Here is the letter from Carolyn T. Adams, Dean of The College of Arts and Sciences, Temple University. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>begin forwarded message>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> October 18, 1996 Letters, Philadelphia Inquirer P.O. Box 8263 Philadelphia, PA 19101 Fax 215/854 -4483 To the editor: I fear that your report earlier this week that Professor Molefi Asante will conclude his term as Chair of our Department of African American Studies may have misled your readers. Your account implied that Dr. Asante is leaving the chair, perhaps even leaving the University, as a result of an inquiry into a charge of plagiarism. That is not the case. In fact. Dr. Asante will finish his administrative term in June 1997, as stipulated five years ago when he accepted re-appointment to the Chair's position. He now prefers to invest his energy in the roles of teacher, researcher, and consultant. We expect Dr. Asante to remain on our faculty for many years to come as one of our distinguished senior scholars. Carolyn T. Adams Dean 215/204-7748 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>end of forward>>>>>>>>>>> Now the question..Are we going to sit idly by while yet another brother is castrated or will we stand up for this brothers who is being lynched? Only you can change the course of history. umoja Only when lions have historians will hunters cease being heroes. African Proverb Without struggle there is no progress. Frederick Douglass The most potent weapon of the oppressor is the mind of the oppressed. Steven Biko yours in the struggle Rodney D. Coates Director of Black World Studies Associate Professor of Sociology Miami University Oxford, Ohio 45056 513 529-1235 email: coatesrd@casmail.muohio.edu From coatesrd@casmail.muohio.edu Tue Oct 22 13:09:39 1996 From: "Rodney Coates" To: "Racial-Religious-EthnoNationalist Violence Studies" Date: Tue, 22 Oct 96 15:06:38 +0 Reply-To: "Rodney Coates" Subject: Racist Situation at SUNY-Binghamton ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^PRESS RELEASE regarding SUNY-Binghamton "RIOT" ^^^^^^^^^^^^ Let it be known the press has labeled this a RIOT... IT IS NOT! Press release 10-18-96 We, the coalition of concerned students, are still occupying the Couper Administration building at SUNY-Binghamton and have been since Wednesday, October 16, at 12 noon to demand that our rights be enforced by University President Lois B. DeFleur and her Administration. On Wednesday October 15, 1996 at 7:15 PM, students attempted to excercise their right to free assembly by attending their Student Assembly (SA) meeting. Having misread the student's desire to speak out against unjust Judicial Board elections at the previous SA meeting as a "disturbance", President DeFleur and the Student Assembly Executive Board had called an unconstitutional meeting in order to construct an illegal lottery system through which only 30 students would be selected to enter the meeting. In addition, President DeFleur had ordered that university Law Enforcement Department (ULED) officers be present in riot gear in order to enforce her idea of "ordered liberty". Upon attempt to enter the meeting, ULED officers responded with physical force to what they saw as a threatening situation. After shoving, manhandling, and beating students, ULED deployed pepper spray directly into student's faces. Many students who were not sprayed were nonetheless affected by the concentration of fumes. Though ULED has direct radio access to Harpur's Ferry Emergency Medical Service, students were deprived of immediate medical attention. When the call for assistance finally reasched Harpur' Ferry, it was place by a student manager. This violence occured within a specific context. Since his election last year, SA President Anthony J. Benardello has been on a personal crusade to silence every student voice that threatens his reactionary agenda. One of his earliest tactical maneuvers was to remove the Vice President for Multicultural Affairs (VPMA), Natalie Bledman, from her office and to block at every moment the campaign for her reinstatement. Judicial Board elections were anti-democratic to the extreme; candidates were required to state their political stances and any student in political disagreement with Benardello was not considered for appointment. Most recently he invited, without the support of his Board members, an alleged CIA agent to speak to the campus as an expert on Multiculturalism. His advertisements for this event contained an image of Nazi soldiers and termed multiculturalism "The New Fascism". By refusing to condemn these actions, the University Administration provideed Benardello an unchallenged space for his extremist agenda. We are not rioting, we are rallying, A riot is spontaneous, unfoceused, damaging, and potentially violent. What we are doing is part of a historical struggle for student rights. We are focused on a goal and work toward it intelligently, responsibly, and with conviction. The people tha have united here represent every race, ethnicity, sexual orientation, economic, background, religious belief, etc.--a truly multicultural coalition. We are peacefully excercising civil disobedience and will until our demands are met. Our struggle is not only a struggle of student rights, but of human rights. We urge you to take a stand. this is not only our fight but yours as well. Please forward this to as many people as possibly. Be wary of how the media tries to portray this it seems that facts are being misconstrued to provide better 'newsworthiness". For more INFO watch CNN or check this out: http://www.geocities.com/Collegepark/2680/ umoja Only when lions have historians will hunters cease being heroes. African Proverb Without struggle there is no progress. Frederick Douglass The most potent weapon of the oppressor is the mind of the oppressed. Steven Biko yours in the struggle Rodney D. Coates Director of Black World Studies Associate Professor of Sociology Miami University Oxford, Ohio 45056 513 529-1235 email: coatesrd@casmail.muohio.edu From spector@calumet.purdue.edu Wed Oct 23 11:06:10 1996 X-NUPop-Charset: English Date: Wed, 23 Oct 1996 12:02:10 -0600 (CST) From: "Alan Spector" Sender: spector@calumet.purdue.edu Reply-To: spector@calumet.purdue.edu To: revs@csf.colorado.edu Subject: Fw: Program on slavery in the sudan rescheduled ------------------------------ From: "Rodney D. Coates" Subject: Re: NBC show on slavery Date: From: American Anti-Slavery Group Organization: American Anti-Slavery Group To: coatesrd@casmail.muohio.edu References: 1 , 2 , 3 Please tell everyone you know: NBC dateline expose on the slavery of blacks in Sudan. new time and date: 10/25 at 9pm scenes of the sale of black children will stun people In Freedom, Charles Jacobs is there a way you can get mass lists of people to know this? -- Please visit our homepage: www.channel1.com/aasg/ From coatesrd@casmail.muohio.edu Thu Oct 24 09:12:19 1996 From: "Rodney Coates" To: "Racial-Religious-EthnoNationalist Violence Studies" Date: Thu, 24 Oct 96 11:08:43 +0 Reply-To: "Rodney Coates" Subject: On The Struggle On The Struggle rodney c//96 Our collective struggle shall not cease until our battle is won. By any means necessary, through education and protest, research and diplomacy, direct action and self-defense we shall struggle. Our struggle is a righteous one and we shall pursue it in righteous ways. Our struggle is just, our time is now - so swiftly we run the corn is high, the cotton knee deep -grandma's hand still on the plow Its bruised and torn from the fight, Grandpa's guitar heard throughout the night. The blues, the holler - Jump jack jump -Whoppie's a clown, Lawrence a fool, Hollywierd rewrites, Media picks another slight. Beat em, strip em, forget them now, heightened frustration behind the smile. Look here, another rape, Egyptians face hidden -Nubien princes turned white by time, paint dried, tombs built by Aliens of the Black Race. Oh, we're alien now, another breed - white -white - no blacks in space. God has died, Allah has left, we are there but now is here. Forget the past, ignore the present and thus damn the future. The Eternal One does not sleep, nor has our plight been forgotten. Our eternal struggle must forever be -this you must see. Knowledge, wisdom, truth, justice, and liberty By all means necessary. Our weapons will not be the weapons of our oppressors, we shall not employ hate, envy, lies or conceit for these only lead to destruction. Our weapons will be the weapons of peace, love, knowledge, and understanding, we shall utilize these to seek out our friends and overcome our enemies. Brothers and sisters, regardless of race, creed or color, we welcome you to our struggle. Mothers and fathers, regardless of education, age, or position, we welcome you to our cause. Friends and neighbors, regardless of geography, identity, or religion, if you will righteously take up our cause, we will righteously accept you as allies. We shall not be moved nor shall our goal be diverted. We will not be assimilated or amalgamated, we shall hold on to our cultural heritage and identity. We will not be coopted or silenced, we shall boldly set forth our agenda, pursue our interests and continue our struggle for complete and total freedom. Live free or die, we shall not wait for it to be granted for it is ours to possess. Be real or be quiet, for we have no time for plastic games and superficial battles based in ignorance, self-destruction and bigotry. Lead, follow or get the hell out of our way, for we have no patience for mediocrity, self-serving ego-tripping exiles from reason. There can be no peace without justice. There can be no justice without liberty. There can be no liberty without opportunity. There can be no opportunity without collective action. Without collective action there shall be no progress. umoja Only when lions have historians will hunters cease being heroes. African Proverb Without struggle there is no progress. Frederick Douglass The most potent weapon of the oppressor is the mind of the oppressed. Steven Biko yours in the struggle Rodney D. Coates Director of Black World Studies Associate Professor of Sociology Miami University Oxford, Ohio 45056 513 529-1235 email: coatesrd@casmail.muohio.edu From ajkosten@magigimmix.xs4all.nl Fri Oct 25 11:49:49 1996 From: "Arthur Kosten" To: RACE-POL@ACADCOMP.CMP.ILSTU.EDU, REVS@csf.colorado.edu, social-theory@mailbase.ac.uk, sps-emi%enlace.bitnet@listserv.net Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 18:49:10 +0000 Subject: Last V-lib update - subscribe to wwwvl-mer-announce Reply-to: ajkosten@xs4all.nl [apologies for cross-posting] For those interested in migration and ethnic relations, Many new Internet sites in the field of migration and ethnic relations have been added to the virtual library in the last two weeks, and an even larger number of existing resources have been updated. The new sites are listed in the 'recently added resources' page of the virtual library which can be found at: http://www.ruu.nl/ercomer/wwwvl/index.html If you want to regularly receive a complete list of new sites in the field of migration and ethnic relations, you can subscribe to the wwwvl-mer-announce mailinglist. You can join this mailinglist (it's free!) by filling in the subscription form at the bottom of the Virtual Library homepage at the address listed above, or you can send an e-mail message to listserv@alcazar.com saying 'subscribe wwwvl-mer-announce Your Name' (without the quotes). Please pay proper attention to correct spelling as the mail will be handled by an electronic mailserver. In order to prevent unneccessary crosspostings, we will stop posting complete virtual library updates on other mailinglists. However, you will be informed of special developments that go beyond 'business as usual' updates with listings of new sites. List moderators who think that virtual library updates are interesting for the members of their list, may off course freely redistribute any messages from the wwwvl-mer-announce list on their own mailinglists. We look forward to welcoming you at the wwwvl-mer-announce mailinglist. Arthur J. Kosten, Virtual Library maintainer. _________________________________________________________________ Arthur J. Kosten European Research Centre on Migration and Ethnic Relations P.O. Box 80.140, 3584 CS Utrecht, The Netherlands Phone: +31 30 2532968, Fax: +31 30 2534733 e-mail: ajkosten@fsw.ruu.nl ERCOMER website: http://www.ruu.nl/ercomer Virtual Library: http://www.ruu.nl/ercomer/wwwvl/wwwvlmer.html _________________________________________________________________ From coatesrd@casmail.muohio.edu Sat Oct 26 07:05:35 1996 Date: Sat, 26 Oct 1996 09:03:18 -0400 From: "Rodney D. Coates" Reply-To: coatesrd@casmail.muohio.edu Organization: Miami University To: Racial-Religious-EthnoNationalist Violence Studies Subject: Racist groups organizing..what should be our response References: <9610221909.AA07300@rose.muohio.edu> Racist groups in this country and arround the world are organizing for an assault against people of color...the forward below is from a NA friend of mine..he asks what are we doing to organizing..how should I respond..and are we in a position to join forces with our Native American, Latino, Mexican and other brothers/sisters of color..or are we a house divided? rodney c... <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: Larry Kibbey To: "Rodney D. Coates" October 24, 1996 6:37 a.m. Good Morning All, This morning I am presenting to you a list of groups that are in fact currently in operation in these United States and for the most part are or have been endorsed and supported by the Republican Party, openly at times by Senator Bob Dole and House Speaker Newt Gingrich. Through documentation located on the "Peoples Home Page"(Treaty Rights- Paths to Political and Legal Issues), and the Fourth World Center, there is a very strong indication that the anti-Indian groups, militia and wise-use groups have formed a unity, with an indication that some have in fact close ties to Neo-Nazi, White Supremacy and Aryan groups. Advocates of Private Property Rights, State Rights, Pro Logging, Pro Mining, Pro Wildlife and Fishing, etc., many of the Anti-Indian groups are large financial contributors to local, state and federal legislators who have in fact promoted legislation on their behalf, mainly Republicans. With an agenda directed largely at Treaty Rights, Land Claims, Cultural Resources, these Anti-Indian groups continue to advocate their regards not only to local, state and federal legislators, but play a major role in the policy making efforts of the U.S. Forest Service, National Parks Service, and the Bureau of Land Management. Utilizing various tatics, people and other groups/organizations, the Anti- Indian Movement has developed a wide range of communication and in order to suppress this movement, a solidarity movement of combined forces from the Traditional Movement to various Environmental groups/organization(NA) must be established, and Tribal Leaders, and other voices of the Sovereign Nations must assist in this strength of solidarity so that a full effort to hinder or distort anti-Indian activity can be arrived at. "PLEASE NOTE THE FOLLOWING" U.S. Farm Bureau, National - All Citizens Equal, Montana East Slope Taxpayers Association, Montana - People For The West, National Citizens Right Organization, Montana - North Dakota Committee for Equality Cheyenne River Landowners Association, South Dakota Concerned Citizens Council, Nebraska - Equal Rights for Everyone, Wisconsin Wisconsin Alliance for Rights and Resources - Trout Unlimited, National Protect Americans Rights and Resources, Wisconsin National Wildlife Association - Citizens Equal Rights Alliance, National International Association of Fish and Wildlife Interstate Congress for Equal Rights and Responsibilities Steelhead/Salmon Protective Association and Wildlife Network Western States Coalition Various New Age Groups/Organizations Various Occult groups/organizations If you have information of other such groups, please add to this list. The establishment of solidarity must be a factor of reality, if there is going to become a stronger force towards the preservation and protection of the culture, tradition and heritage. Thank you. Larry Kibby - kibbey@sierra.net <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> by the way how many AA know their NA ancestry, the collective battles waged where African and Native Americanw were allies against white supremacy, enslavement, and imperialism..check out Leron Bennett's Book The Shaping of Black America ..chapter 3 if you don't know... still in the struggle.. rodney coates director of black world studies associate professor of sociology miami university oxford, ohio..45056 From varvel@plains.nodak.edu Sat Oct 26 23:48:48 1996 Date: Sat, 26 Oct 1996 23:48:43 -0600 (CST) From: Andrew Varvel To: revs@csf.colorado.edu Subject: Basic Question: What is America? In-Reply-To: <32720C16.21BE@casmail.muohio.edu> The Problem After Samuel Huntington wrote "Clash of Civilizations?", it appeared that the dean of the American foreign policy establishment had written a manifesto declaring war on all who are not subservient to the Trilateral Commission. Indeed, that appears to be the only interpretation that makes sense. The "western civilization" that Samuel Huntington refers to does not include Latin America and he refuses to recognize non-European traditions in North America, a hostile act toward both American patriots and people with non-European ancestry (which includes MANY people who are pigeonholed as "white"). (It excludes Muslims and Orthodox Christians; it appears to give a carte blanche for religious bigotry as well as racial bigotry.) The New World Order, as envisioned by Samuel Huntington (according to his writings on the governability of democracy, anti-Communism, and his present "Clash of Civilizations" piece), is Jim Crow Writ Large. It is white (and Protestant-based) supremacy. The only plausible definition of "western civilization" with the borders he gives them is "white civilization". Although careful reading of Samuel Huntington's work reveals its white supremacist character, one must realize that opposition to such tactics must not come from a 180 degree angle. It doesn't work. An opposition to white supremacy must come with a rejection of the ideology and its economic underpinnings while representing an ideological alternative, complete with the economics of consent. Rejection of white people works in the white supremacist's favor, as it allows otherwise decent people to concede the "necessity" of brute force for their very survival. The foreign policy stance of Samuel Huntington does not come in a vacuum; it stems from a cultural conception of citizenship that is based on the notion that the US was founded by the "founding fathers" and was "built by immigrants". (One could go on ad nauseum about the mythology and folklore behind the "ideal" American.) What are the US of America? The only way I can think of to avoid a civil war within the United States of America is to redefine citizenship at a cultural level. Forget about interlocking hate groups for a second; they are only the outward expression of a menace far more sinister. The "Atlanticism" and later, "Trilateralism", of multinational corporations and their academic praetorian guard led by Huntington, is a basic threat to the citizenship of all US citizens. He is telling us that our loyalties must be (or rather, he assumes that they already are...) to "western civilization" (i.e. white civilization), over and above loyalty to the US constitution, the people, and the country. If Jim Crow is bad (whether old Jim Crow or externalized neo-colonial Jim Crow), the "melting pot" probably worse. It represents the paint factory in "The Invisible Man" where a small amount of black paint is added to the white paint in order to make it even more white. Assimilation causes resentment, but it also creates a false patriotism, a fanaticism that will either fight for the order ferociously or tear it down. The "melting pot" denies the basic humanity to small groups, as they will numerically be required to give up nearly everything they are while having little influence on the rest of society. Neither race conscious nor "melting pot" mythologies work in the USA. However, it is quite possible for people who have their own nationality to be loyal to the United States of America. Citizenship, at a cultural level, should be for people who live in the territory of the United States of America. (In this case, the first US university is in Santa Fe.) I think that a cosmopolitan, "Americo-centric mythology" with calm truthful history without self-righteous judgment can really help bring the people of this country together. Racism in America is bad, and it is likely to get worse, not better. Why? It is partly because people have gotten reminded so much of their racial identities for so long by the media, government, and other parts of society. (No matter what I say, I will be pigeonholed in a category I do not want to be in when I complete government forms; the government insists on reminding people of their racial identity, which brings some very bitter memories... An ethnic Yugoslav friend of mine objected to being asked about his race; he said the US was apparently more intrusive on the matter than the old Yugoslavia was.) It also doesn't help that the American flag represents white supremacy. The Flag The fifty stars in a blue background have 1/4 of the flag. The stripes representing the original thirteen states have 3/4 of the flag. Geographically, this makes the eastern seaboard more important than the rest of the country. It implicitly makes citizens of 37 states second class citizens. Further, it implies that the descendants of those with citizenship in 1776 are more important than those ancestors got their citizenship in 1848, 1865, 1928, or 1996. It doesn't represent freedom; instead, it enshrines the "Founding Fathers" myth of authority and managed opinion. It represents the inequality among states and among peoples of this land. Instead, I propose that the flag be fifty equal stars on a blue background. No prison bars. No prison stripes. My family now has an improved American flag -- the stripes are cut off, and the stars remain. (They do look a bit too regimented... Some kind of galaxy or swirl would be nice -- it must be tasteful.) The original 13 states are still fellow states; this flag is a declaration of equality, not rejection. My hand goes out in friendship. I'm not burning the stripes off. A Defensive Capital Washington D.C. is in a strategically vulnerable region, so it tends to overcompensate with imperialism. (In the same way, Russia expanded the most when the capital was in St. Petersburg.) If the people of the US want a capital of a peaceful, defensive country, it should be in a place like Oklahoma City (with lots of water, a central location, and loyal citizens). What For Now...? The truth is not only the best weapon of defense against such overwhelming power, but it appears to be the only one. Over time, most people will realize that economies of consent are economies that create satisfaction in life. Comments? --Andrew Varvel-- From varvel@plains.nodak.edu Sun Oct 27 00:44:21 1996 From: Andrew Varvel Subject: A quiet warning on white supremacy To: revs@csf.colorado.edu Date: Sun, 27 Oct 1996 00:44:20 -0600 (CST) Hello, everybody! This is just a quiet warning about a possible trend I see in the future in white supremacy. It's just a reminder that it is quite possible to be virulently racist and socially "progressive"... A quiet warning on white supremacy Please remember that the real threat of white supremacist propaganda doesn't come so much from rural and right-wing activists. They are bad and bad enough. The worst threat would come from white supremacists who beleive in social justice and take Samuel Huntington's views on foreign policy and domesticate them. The result would be a blatantly white supremacist organization that favors quotas, affirmative action, welfare, health care, and other social programs in order to "uplift" non-whites to the white--OOPS, western cultural level. It would be a "caring and gentle" racism (very much like the racism of Theodore Roosevelt). This "movement" would be extremely and gratuitously patronizing to non-whites, but it would define "whiteness" as a cultural trait and not racial. Any successful black person would be regarded as "culturally white" while Tarzan and Elvis wouldn't be "white". The Asia of Ishihara and Mahathir would be declared "white", as "industrialized Confucian values" would be declared "an internalized Protestant work ethic brought in by missionaries of white civilization". Even modern Hindu prudishness would be declared to be "white" in cultural origin. This kind of soft-peddled white nationalism with social programs, cute mediagenic faces, and lots of cash from big business that targets young-upper-middle-class-white-women-university-students would be highly effective. And divisive. And tending toward a civil war. This scenario is extremely scary. In fact, I wouldn't have warned you about the possibility (for the fear that the very suggestion of such a notion to a public audience would make it more likely) except for the fact that the United States appears headed in that direction already. The local newspaper, the Grand Forks Herald, used the term "white civilization". Samuel Huntington claims that the major battles of the new order will be cultural -- and he is taken seriously by the foreign policy establishment, not to mention scaring foreigners abroad and minorities (read non-whites) at home. If Milton Kleim ever relapses, I see that racism with social justice would be the kind he would champion; any movement he would lead would not be so ideologically constrained by older men who are set in their ways. Given all of this, it is best that I tell everybody here. What can be done... I really don't think that any racist front can be effectively combatted at an 180 degree angle in the long run. Temporarily, they can be forced into hiding, but they usually pop right back up within a generation. Hateful ideologies thrive on conflict, but generally fall apart when their internal contradictions are exposed. >From my point of view, the most effective method of opposing white supremacy is opposing white consciousness and having ready alternatives to it. I am very serious when I say that changing the flag of the USA would really help. At the symbolic level, it would change the relationships among citizens in a way that everybody can understand. In the long run, a caring society helps, as well as a mental universe that allows people, at the cultural and political level, to determine who they are. (This is very different from statist "self-determination", which equates nationality with a state. This is not feasible in a place like the US and it would certainly be very bloody. Loyalty to a state, or world province, is not the same thing as cultural identity.) Too often, ethnicity is manufactured by the propaganda machines of metropoles, as opposed to any correlation of family history with school-based history. --Andrew Varvel-- OA