From socgrad-relay@UCSD.EDU Wed Sep 1 13:08:25 1993 sendmail 5.67/UCSD-2.2-sun Wed, 1 Sep 93 11:47:57 -0700 for /usr/lib/sendmail -oc -odq -oi -fsocgrad-relay socgrad-list Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1993 11:22:50 -0700 (PDT) From: Paul Douglas Lopes Subject: Subscription Socgrad To: SOCGRAD Network Hello, anyone there! I'm a graduate student in sociology at UCB. A fellow grad at Stanford clued me in on an e-mail network for sociology graduate students. He couldn't quite remember how to subscribe to the network. Please let me know how I might be able to subscribe. Thank You Paul From socgrad-relay@ucsd.edu Sat Sep 4 12:50:28 1993 sendmail 5.67/UCSD-2.2-sun Sat, 4 Sep 93 12:48:59 -0700 for slincoln@weber.ucsd.edu Sat, 4 Sep 93 12:47:34 -0700 for /usr/mail/admin-checkandsend.sh socgrad Date: Sat, 04 Sep 93 15:29:04 EDT From: Joya Misra Organization: Emory University - Atlanta, Georgia, USA Subject: COMMUNITY WITHIN GRAD DEPTS To: SOCGRAD@UCSD.EDU Hi everyone. Anyone there? Everyone napping? Or maybe disoriented by the amazing numbers of things that fall upon our heads at the beginning of the year? Anyway, I have a question I'd like to see discussed here on the list, or you could send me personal messages. I'm finishing up at Emory, and have been around for a good long time (starting my sixth year). In these years, there have been ups and downs in terms of the kinds of community we have had together as grad students. Basically, this is a pretty supportive atmosphere, we are friendly and curious about one another's research, many of us have close friends among the other grad students, when we need to get together around an issue we can, and our faculty usually respond quite thoughfully to the concerns we raise. However, many of us would agree that a stronger sense of community would be a good thing. For example, at times we would have a grad student "night out" like every week or every other week, and now we don't do that. There are variations in the grad student community between people who feel represented and attended to, and those who feel less so. I find myself feeling relatively helpless, at this stage, because somany of the things we've tried have not had staying power, and also because I feel the center of the department's grad student community must come out of those still in coursework together, those who are in the thick of it, so to speak. I'm curious about YOUR experiences along these lines. What are strategies you've tried to build community? Who are the major players in your communities? My sense is all of our previous attempts have failed because they have been centered around particular people who are committed to community, rather than being a more grass-roots sort of movement (sorry for being so unsociological here, all I can say is that my mind seems to have stopped working - feel free to apply the appropriate jargon to my statements). Let me know if you have any thoughts/ideas. joya misra socak663@emuvm1.cc.emory.edu or socak663@emuvm1.bitnet From socgrad-relay@ucsd.edu Sat Sep 4 14:13:02 1993 sendmail 5.67/UCSD-2.2-sun Sat, 4 Sep 93 14:11:26 -0700 for slincoln@weber.ucsd.edu Sat, 4 Sep 93 14:10:03 -0700 for /usr/mail/admin-checkandsend.sh socgrad Date: Sat, 04 Sep 93 16:05:51 EST From: Steve Harvey Subject: joya's queries To: socgrad@ucsd.edu In response to Joya's thoughts: I've had the same feelings about grad student solidarity/sense of community. There may not be that much to say on the matter: People coalesce around shared theoretical orientations, political agendas, areas of specialization, but sometimes these coalescences have a balkanizing affect on the "whole group" (whoever the "whole group" may be, in any given context). To take Joya's tongue-in-cheek challenge (to throw in some jargon) seriously, there are some great sociological insights into such dynamics, as well as a lot of op-ed discussion of one manifestation of it (i.e., the whole pc/multiculturalism debate). Mark Granovetter's "the strength of weak ties" and Mancur Olson's _the rise and decline of nations_ both discuss how local solida- rities can undermine higher-level solidarity. My own interest involves modeling nested and overlapping collective action arrangements: the ways in which they can be mutually reinforcing, and in which they can be mutually incompatible. I nominally chair a (not-yet-mobilized) committee on our graduate student senate whose purpose is to unite the ideals of respect for diversity and striving for intergroup solidarity. Many people may scoff, as though there is no tension be- tween the two, and I certainly don't mean to imply that they are mutually excl- usive, but a glance around easily confirms that they are not automatically or always easily reconciled. Micronationalism and civil war; nationalism and trade (or actual) war; social cliques and disaffected mutterings (by those from other cliques, or those who feel left out). I think there are 2 aspects(from a formal point of view) of reconciling "small" solidarities with encompassing solidari- ties: building bridges(from network analysis: forming weak ties between cliques which facilitate cohesion), and identifying "collective goods" held in common (from game theory: social production functions). In grad school, we certainly have the weak ties between cliques: we see each other in the corridors, know a little about one another, interact in various ways and on various levels. What's left to do is to identify the shared "goods" we can provide only through mutual cooperation and mutual identification. The easiest way to start is to ask, why are we talking about it? Why do we care? One reason is that it creates a more pleasant environment. That reason alone doesn't seem strong enough to always carry the day (it seems to generally lose to the "costs" of forging that sense of community: the time, the effort, the fact that we really consider some of our colleagues total pains-in-the-a.., etc.). Another reason is the mutual assistance we can provide one another. But, sociology itself is balkanized: cultural hegemony theorists don't usually believe game theorists have any use- ful assistance to offer, who usually don't feel post modernists have any use- ful assistance to offer, who usually feel that all the rest of us are lost in simulacra anyway.... Part of the problem is we've taken the tool of critical analysis to an absurd level: Sociologists too often act as though anyone who doesn't share their exact theoretical/methodological/political orientation is an odious fool. So one public good I recommend rallying around is DIALOGUE. Go on, hug a functionalist! Ask someone who you've prematurely dismissed to ex- plain why they think what they think (we're all CAPABLE of knowing when we've prematurely" dismissed someone, or some body of thought, and when we've dis- missed him/her/it for truly compelling reasons; the problem is, we often auto- matically assume the latter to be the case, when we need to stop and consider whether it's actually the former). Though I work primarily THROUGH game theory, I draw on ideas from all over the map: post modernists and semiologists, marx- ist structuralists and functionalists, symbollic interactionists and critical theorists.... The art, and USEFULNESS, of synthesis has been too often under- valued in our discipline. Well, there are my "thoughts of the moment" on the subject: sorry (Joya) if I over-"sociologized" the subject! But, personally, I like to live my life as a seamless whole, not a bunch of compartmentalized as- pects.... And that's pretty much where I came in.... -steve harvey@uconnvm From socgrad-relay@ucsd.edu Sat Sep 4 16:12:37 1993 sendmail 5.67/UCSD-2.2-sun Sat, 4 Sep 93 16:11:11 -0700 for slincoln@weber.ucsd.edu Sat, 4 Sep 93 16:10:05 -0700 for /usr/mail/admin-checkandsend.sh socgrad Date: Sat, 4 Sep 1993 18:41:14 -0400 (EDT) From: Daniel Ryan Subject: A long winded explanation...how everybody got stood up at ASA To: socgrad Greetings fellow believers -- Since I saw two messages today from SOCGRAD, I'm guess we are slowly returning to our departmental lairs and logging on again and starting to teach and learn and maybe even work on our dissertations again. WELCOME BACK TO US ALL! But, that's not why I've called you all together to this gathering tonight. The reason behind our meeting is to offer a word of explanation about what happened (not!?) at ASA. You'll recall my pre-Miami "See you in Miami" message about our table at the DAN party...and you may recall showing up at said party and looking in vain ... Before I explain and apologize, I thought it might make sense to suggest a little network assay -- if you were at ASA, whom from the network did you meet? Whom did friends of yours meet (following on Steve's mention of weak ties)? I'll send mine under separate cover. Or comments on best paper? Funnest person met? Wildest convention story(names changed to protect the guilty, of course)? Most tedious session? Best restaurant? Silliest interview? ....ahh, just a minute, there is smoke coming from the kitchen.... ....just an abandoned bagel getting incinerated in a preheating oven.... ...anyway....looking in vain for a "SOCGRAD" sign with "red, white and blue" trim. Well, you were not alone. Among those 2000-3000 sociologists were many like you, a little perplexed, a little overwhelmed, a little (in my case very!) disappointed that there was no such table. Well, here is what happened. Apparently the sign got made, travelled to Miami with all the other signs, got delivered to the vicinity of the ballroom -- all this under the watchful eyes of people in the know. And then....there were these folks who were doing the setup for the DAN party and they weren't people in the know and they'd never heard of a school called "SOCGRAD" and so they put the sign in with the materials that went with the the organizations that had table space in the book exhibits (like the lefty soc people, etc) and since none of use had any reason to look there, the poor sign never really got to participate in the meetings :(. And so apologies to all who might have been looking for one another. I felt like I'd let everyone down without having a clue what to do about it. I thought about approaching the stage and borrowing the mike from the singer and making an announcement, but somehow that didn't seem to be the best way to make my big public entree in the profession. Of course, it might have been my only shot at addressing the whole ASA at once.... Anyway, on the last day of the meeting I thought that I could have put a notice on the bulletin board, but by then the opportunity had passed. Sorry...I'll try to be a little more prepared for SNAFUs next time I promise to do something! Cheers, Dan From socgrad-relay@ucsd.edu Sun Sep 5 09:01:56 1993 sendmail 5.67/UCSD-2.2-sun Sun, 5 Sep 93 08:52:26 -0700 for slincoln@weber.ucsd.edu Sun, 5 Sep 93 08:43:09 -0700 for /usr/mail/admin-checkandsend.sh socgrad via Charon-4.0-VROOM with IPX id 100.930905114131.480; 05 Sep 93 11:41:44 +500 To: socgrad@ucsd.edu From: S-ENDER@bss1.umd.edu Date: 5 Sep 93 11:41:22 EDT Subject: best asa restaurant: a brief, biased & patriotic ethnography best all-around restuarant: thai orchid II (41st street, downtown miami)...besides having some of the most delicate shrimp and fluffy rice (served from beautiful silver colander type buckets) I've ever tasted, the maitre de was white and foucault's look-a-like...he also turned out to be the owner... ...the entire staff were of thai descent and spoke very little english ...this made ordering a challenge and fun; also it appeared english and occupational status were positively correlated, e.g. the water boys understood no english... ...in addition to being immersed in this ethnic gastronomy (surrounded by cubans and yuppies at the other tables), our "foucault" owner brewed excellent house beers (english ale, porter, stout and wheat...i recommend the wheat beer with a lemon slice, but free samples are also available)...after engaging the "foucault" in a little conversation (i suggest open-ended questions rather than short answers) we got a tour of the backstage region of the restuarant... ...the beer brewing operation could be called "fly by night" at best, it looked more like an indoor beverly hillbilly moonshine operation...the beer is worted in 55 gallon drums and primary fermented in 3 1/3 gallon coca-cola containers with C O 2 cartriages...irrespective of appearance, the operation meets all the health department's requirements for the state of florida...we spent the evening talking about beer and miami with "foucault" and a local--a retired navy guy who spent years living in bangkok... ..."foucault's" is the only remaining brew-pub in miami... ...the juxtaposing of a foucault look-a-like, with spicy thai food and english ales on the edge of little havana made for a very post-modern evening... ...if you visit, tell him the guys from washington sent you... parched and sober in maryland, morten p.s. any good brew-pubs in the city of angels, l.a.? From socgrad-relay@ucsd.edu Sun Sep 5 10:01:07 1993 sendmail 5.67/UCSD-2.2-sun Sun, 5 Sep 93 09:51:22 -0700 for slincoln@weber.ucsd.edu Sun, 5 Sep 93 09:42:10 -0700 for /usr/mail/admin-checkandsend.sh socgrad Date: Sun, 5 Sep 93 09:42:10 -0700 From: @EMUVM1.CC.EMORY.EDU:SOCAK663@EMUVM1.CC.EMORY.EDU Apparently-To: Steve! Great points about community building. Please don't apologize for sociologizing it - that's exactly what I was hoping for. I've been so tired and brain dead, I've had trouble expressing myself in any form. But I was hoping to talk about it on the net not just because we have direct experiences belonging to grad departments, but also because we ARE sociologists and can try and approach these issues by drawing on our sociological insights and imaginations! I _love_ sociologists and try not to compartmentalize my life too much too. Sorry if I gave an erroneous impression simply because I'm feeling cotton-brained. Thanks for being such a good net-colleague. joya From socgrad-relay@ucsd.edu Tue Sep 7 19:11:46 1993 sendmail 5.67/UCSD-2.2-sun Tue, 7 Sep 93 19:10:17 -0700 for slincoln@weber.ucsd.edu Tue, 7 Sep 93 19:08:19 -0700 for /usr/mail/admin-checkandsend.sh socgrad From: David John Frank Subject: community To: socgrad@ucsd.edu Date: Tue, 7 Sep 93 19:08:17 PDT In response to Joya -- There have been recurring discussions over the issue of community here at Stanford. Many people have been dissatisfied. Listening to these discussions, I've always been surprised. I've found the community life here extraordinarily lively, even overwhelming. And so I've considered the issue. One explanation for the difference in experiences is standard of comparison. Compared to being an undergrad, being a grad is *very* anomic, and therefore those who enter grad school immediately following college may be likely to experience alienation. On the other hand, compared to being an employee in a for-profit company, being a grad student is *very* communal, and people who worked before returning to school may be perfectly awed by the esprit de corps. At least that's my sociological hypothesis of the day. I welcome countervailing ideas. David F. From socgrad-relay@ucsd.edu Tue Sep 7 20:02:25 1993 sendmail 5.67/UCSD-2.2-sun Tue, 7 Sep 93 20:01:00 -0700 for slincoln@weber.ucsd.edu Tue, 7 Sep 93 19:59:39 -0700 for /usr/mail/admin-checkandsend.sh socgrad Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1993 22:25:21 -0400 (EST) From: Daniel Ryan Subject: Community, Lack of... a rambling note To: socgrad Greetings, I have two posts brewing in me on this community thing -- here is one of them. I've been affiliated with several institutions/organizations over the years (from large multinational corporations to little tiny liberal arts colleges) and I've heard the complaint about lack of community in one form or another over and over. I think, sometimes, that concerns about a lack of community are a sort of communal ritual -- like the bad food in the cafeteria or the weather, it is one thing that everyone can talk about. In a sense, talk about lack of community has it's own way of building community. Perhaps.... But on a more concrete level, when I encounter these claims of no community, I follow the lead of that great teacher of sociology, Penny Rosel, and ask the person to describe what a place with a healthy sense of community would look or feel like. Sometimes what we get down to is that a lack of a sense of community is a way of describing the fact that one doesn't feel like one has friendly relations with some group of people that one thinks one ought to have friendly relations with. [Other times, of course, the folks who are "seeing" the lack of a sense of community are describing something more "suprapersonal."] A second observation is that the difference between there being "a sense of community" and "no sense of community" often seems to be a very small one in reality. That is, while "building a sense of community" sounds like a daunting task, it doesn't take a whole lot of connecting to change the "sense" by a lot -- classic non-linear phenomenon. Well, just a typical latenight djrramble.... From socgrad-relay@ucsd.edu Tue Sep 7 22:47:59 1993 sendmail 5.67/UCSD-2.2-sun Tue, 7 Sep 93 22:46:50 -0700 for slincoln@weber.ucsd.edu Tue, 7 Sep 93 22:45:43 -0700 for /usr/mail/admin-checkandsend.sh socgrad Date: Wed, 08 Sep 93 01:31:27 EST From: Steve Harvey Subject: praise for an elegant morsel To: "y'all" I think Dan struck a true chord with his suggestion that complaints about lack of community are a community-building ritual: a nice little nested nugget of self-referential irony! Also, the notion that the difference between a place that provides a sense of community and one that doesn't may involve very subtle variances of otherwise obscure factors reminds me of Granovetter's threshold effects (I guess I'm on a Granovetter kick these days): A 1% difference in one individual's personal threshold to riot can make the difference between one "lone troublemaker" throwing a stone and an entire crowd erupting into full- blown riot. It's worth bearing in mind that major changes, both real and per- ceived, can pivot on the subtlest of nuances, and the subtlest of inputs can generate the most dramatic and profound changes. -Steve harvey@uconnvm From socgrad-relay@ucsd.edu Wed Sep 8 05:28:33 1993 sendmail 5.67/UCSD-2.2-sun Wed, 8 Sep 93 05:27:17 -0700 for slincoln@weber.ucsd.edu Wed, 8 Sep 93 05:26:16 -0700 for /usr/mail/admin-checkandsend.sh socgrad Date: Wed, 08 Sep 93 08:09:24 EDT From: Joya Misra Organization: Emory University - Atlanta, Georgia, USA Subject: COMMUNITY To: SOCGRAD@UCSD.EDU This has been quite fun. A lot of my favorites have come out to play on this topic, both here on the list and in a myriad of personal messages. Thanks for responding to my questions about community-building with such thoughtfulness and warmth. So now I'd like to focus my questions a little. I've always been pretty much out there in the thick of things in my own department, I feel supported by the professors, by grad student colleagues, by my dearest grad student friends. But I'm aware that my experience is an unusual one. Many people feel marginalized all the time, feel completely unsupported. There are patterns to this marginalization - women seem less "brought in" than men, international students less than U.S. students, etc. In my past structural roles in the dept. (faculty liason, etc.), I have tried mightily to include the concerns of all students in our requests for changes, etc. However, if those who feel marginalized aren't around, don't respond to memos or come to meetings, how can you fairly ensure that their concerns will be met? I'm out of the student-leading loop now, since I'm finishing up and looking for a job, but I spend time puzzling over this conundrum with the present batch of student leaders and remain a (too vocal) voice at student meetings. I don't know if I'm really going to find any answers, here or anywhere else, but I keep feeling like I'm just missing one very basic piece of the puzzle somewhere. I have already gotten some answers to this question, in the responses to the earlier broader stuff, and don't think I don't recognize it. But I was hoping to jog everyone's imagination by re-stating and re-formula- ting the question (can you tell I'm teaching 2 classes right now?) a bit. Again, thanks. joya From socgrad-relay@ucsd.edu Wed Sep 8 09:08:57 1993 sendmail 5.67/UCSD-2.2-sun Wed, 8 Sep 93 09:06:37 -0700 for slincoln@weber.ucsd.edu Wed, 8 Sep 93 09:04:53 -0700 for /usr/mail/admin-checkandsend.sh socgrad Date: Wed, 08 Sep 93 11:42:25 EDT From: "Marlen R. Hancock" Organization: Emory University - Atlanta, Georgia, USA Subject: COMMUNITY To: SOCGRAD@UCSD.EDU Hi all! To add my little bit to the discussion on community among grad students, I would first agree with most of the commentary to date. In addition, however, I would add that different students will seek or desire different kinds and levels of community involvement and support while in graduate school. Coming from the same department as Joya, I agree with her that her experience has been unusual. So has mine. I have been on no committees and have played no official role other than student in our department and have been entirely satisfied with that situation. I have not developed a close collegiality with any of the faculty which I mildly regret--as in, it would have been nice but it was never necessary to my success in grad school. Part of the difference in Joya's and my experience is the role of graduate school in our lives. Joya is what I think of as a "traditional" student and I am the epitome of the non-traditional student. As important as school is for me, it is a limited portion of an otherwise very busy life. On the issue of building community where there is a perceived lack, I suggest a number of small efforts rather than a major onslaught. My personal favorite is a candy bowl in the graduate student lounge filled with Jolly Ranchers. Another is posted "insider" humor. These benign activities seem to encourage random conversations and have become an ongoing source of amusement for several of us in our department. (There is an ongoing, developing discussion of a thesis or dissertation on the dynamics of the candy bowl--who contributes, who eats the candy, how is the bowl explained to newcomers and outsiders, is filling the candy bowl an act of altruism or a self-serving attempt to develop perceived debt to the filler, etc.) A final, and no-doubt obvious way to build community is the conscious, deliberate continuing effort to include newcomers to the department. This last must be done person- to-person, not via parties, meetings, outings, etc. In my experience, nothing is so isolating and marginalizing as eating lunch alone on a regular basis. If one eats alone and then discovers that others ate as a group, it can lead to feelings of exclusion as well as isolation. I hope I haven't rambled too much or bored too many of you. But I do enjoy the discussion and have gained some insights. Thanks. Marni Hancock (SOCAW059@EUVM1) From socgrad-relay@ucsd.edu Wed Sep 8 13:32:32 1993 sendmail 5.67/UCSD-2.2-sun Wed, 8 Sep 93 13:30:20 -0700 for slincoln@weber.ucsd.edu Wed, 8 Sep 93 13:28:34 -0700 for /usr/mail/admin-checkandsend.sh socgrad Date: Wed, 8 Sep 93 16:28:28 EDT From: David Gibson To: socgrad@ucsd.edu Subject: College Park? Is anyone out there at the U. of Maryland, at College Park? I need to contact a professor there -- David Segal, and would appreciate his email address, if he has one, or at least his snail-mail department address. Thanks David Gibson From socgrad-relay@ucsd.edu Thu Sep 9 13:35:11 1993 sendmail 5.67/UCSD-2.2-sun Thu, 9 Sep 93 13:33:32 -0700 for slincoln@weber.ucsd.edu Thu, 9 Sep 93 13:32:01 -0700 for /usr/mail/admin-checkandsend.sh socgrad Thu, 9 Sep 93 20:31:45 GMT for MAILER@SDSC; Wed, 8 Sep 1993 19:01 GMT Date: Wed, 08 Sep 93 14:33:43 EDT From: R2HAF%AKRONVM%VM1.CC.UAKRON.EDU@VM1.CC.UAKRON.EDU Subject: joya's question To: socgrad%ucsd.edu@Sdsc.Edu I like joya's question about community among graduate students and other department members. It is one i have asked myself many times during my time in graduate school, and it has been the subject of many a discussion with my closer grad student friends. Actually, what i like about joya's questions and the insightful resposnses she has received is the fact that others have asked the question. my school has what i would consider a sizeable proportion of nontraditional grad students, so i assumed that others in more traditonal programs (ie. with younger, single students) feel a stronger sense of community with fellow students. by this I mean that they simply are closer friends with or spend more time socializing with fellow grad students. my "insight" into joya's question as to why there is a lack of community among graduate students follows along the lines of some previous comments. people are marginalized or come together in groups over common interests, and i don't think that it always or usually comes down to political views, ideologies or research orientations. i beleive it is often a matter of lifestyle--who is able to attend what and when and where. can i afford to commit to this or that role and still deal with the rest of my life? in other words i agree with marni's assessment. community can be the result of the majority of the people being able to interact with each other in a way that facilitates their common lifestyle. so if you are in the minority and eating alone--how are you different from those who eat together? are you not able to make their meetings and parties, even though you might like to---? or am i wrong? Do some people simply want to go their own way? this may not be the most sociologically precise answer received but it has been my observations of graduate life which is a lifestlye i enjoy and one in which i must take pains to keep myself integrated. --heather  From socgrad-relay@ucsd.edu Thu Sep 9 16:58:42 1993 sendmail 5.67/UCSD-2.2-sun Thu, 9 Sep 93 16:50:46 -0700 for slincoln@weber.ucsd.edu sendmail 5.67/UCSD-2.2-sun via CCMail Thu, 9 Sep 93 16:45:30 -0700 for /usr/mail/admin-checkandsend.sh socgrad From: Jo_Rudolph@SOCIOLOGY.UCSD.EDU id with CCTORFC Thu Sep 9 23:45:30 1993 Date: 09 Sep 93 04:22:00 -0800 To: socgrad@ucsd.edu Subject: TESTING THIS IS A TEST. From socgrad-relay@ucsd.edu Thu Sep 9 18:56:21 1993 sendmail 5.67/UCSD-2.2-sun Thu, 9 Sep 93 18:54:43 -0700 for slincoln@weber.ucsd.edu Thu, 9 Sep 93 18:53:29 -0700 for /usr/mail/admin-checkandsend.sh socgrad To: socgrad@ucsd.edu Subject: education Date: Thu, 09 Sep 93 18:53:18 -0700 From: neese@nevada.edu Help! I'm a grad student at UNLV and looking for a Sociology of Education/Urban Education/Critical Pedagogy network. I'm currently researching all of the above, in addition to anti-racist teaching, etc. Would love to share ideas. I'm at Neese@Nevada.edu. Thanks, Denise M. Dalaimo From socgrad-relay@ucsd.edu Fri Sep 10 10:24:12 1993 sendmail 5.67/UCSD-2.2-sun Fri, 10 Sep 93 10:22:35 -0700 for slincoln@weber.ucsd.edu Fri, 10 Sep 93 10:20:25 -0700 for /usr/mail/admin-checkandsend.sh socgrad To: socgrad@ucsd.edu Subject: Education Network Date: Fri, 10 Sep 93 10:20:14 -0700 From: neese@nevada.edu I'm a grad student at UNLV and am researching Critical Pedagogy/Anti- Bias Curriculum and Sociology of Education. I'm looking for a network in Soc of Ed to exhange ideas. My email address is: neese@nevada.edu Thanks, Denise Dalaimo From socgrad-relay@ucsd.edu Mon Sep 13 10:56:56 1993 sendmail 5.67/UCSD-2.2-sun Mon, 13 Sep 93 10:53:12 -0700 for slincoln@weber.ucsd.edu sendmail 5.67/UCSD-2.2-sun via CCMail Mon, 13 Sep 93 10:49:18 -0700 for /usr/mail/admin-checkandsend.sh socgrad From: Jo_Rudolph@SOCIOLOGY.UCSD.EDU id with CCTORFC Mon Sep 13 17:49:18 1993 Date: 13 Sep 93 09:48:00 -0800 To: socgrad@ucsd.edu Subject: READERS POSITIONS SEVERAL READER POSITIONS ARE OPEN FOR FALL, 1993 QUARTER. PLEASE SEE ME ASAP IF INTERESTED. JO From socgrad-relay@ucsd.edu Mon Sep 13 18:20:52 1993 sendmail 5.67/UCSD-2.2-sun Mon, 13 Sep 93 18:19:13 -0700 for slincoln@weber.ucsd.edu Mon, 13 Sep 93 18:17:49 -0700 for /usr/mail/admin-checkandsend.sh socgrad Date: Mon, 13 Sep 93 20:10:25 CDT From: KLOSKY@VM1.NoDak.EDU Organization: North Dakota Higher Education Computer Network Subject: Amazed at use To: Socgrad list I'm just dropping a quick note to let those who care know that I really like the diversity of interaction that occurs in this group. There seems to be three types of users, though this is simply placed here more for fun than true debate: Listeners: Those who read all the SOCGRAD mail, but don't write any Users : Those who read mail their interested in, and write mail specific to their own interest areas DieHards : Those who read all the mail, respond to EVERY issue raised by Users, and also raise their own. These people eat, sleep and inhale INTERNET So, what kind of SOCGRAD are you? My issue for today: Has anyone heard of "Social Impact Theory?" Smile at least once tomorrow -- people around you will like it SKEE University of North Dakota p.s. What's a READERS POSITION? From socgrad-relay@ucsd.edu Tue Sep 14 06:16:44 1993 sendmail 5.67/UCSD-2.2-sun Tue, 14 Sep 93 06:15:03 -0700 for slincoln@weber.ucsd.edu Tue, 14 Sep 93 06:13:48 -0700 for /usr/mail/admin-checkandsend.sh socgrad Date: Tue, 14 Sep 93 09:12 EDT From: Subject: Re: Amazed at use To: KLOSKY@VM1.NoDak.EDU Yep! I've heard of "Social Impact Theory" My understanding is that it has to do with the way rules, information, and structural characteristics influence other/future behavior when they are invoked. So, the meeting time of my Rural Social Change class could not be moved due to one student's schedule. Their inability to meet at a previously suggested time put a stop to the whole conversation. A structural constraint or rule limited our options in the decision-making process. By-the-way, until today, I was just a listener. Enjoy It -- Jen From socgrad-relay@ucsd.edu Thu Sep 16 00:23:01 1993 sendmail 5.67/UCSD-2.2-sun Thu, 16 Sep 93 00:21:36 -0700 for slincoln@weber.ucsd.edu Thu, 16 Sep 93 00:19:54 -0700 for /usr/mail/admin-checkandsend.sh socgrad To: socgrad@ucsd.edu Subject: Womanism Date: Thu, 16 Sep 93 00:19:51 -0700 From: neese@nevada.edu What do you think about the terms "womanist" and "womanism"? neese@nevada.edu From socgrad-relay@ucsd.edu Thu Sep 16 05:57:18 1993 sendmail 5.67/UCSD-2.2-sun Thu, 16 Sep 93 05:55:33 -0700 for slincoln@weber.ucsd.edu Thu, 16 Sep 93 05:54:22 -0700 for /usr/mail/admin-checkandsend.sh socgrad Date: Thu, 16 Sep 93 07:46:31 CDT From: KLOSKY@VM1.NoDak.EDU Organization: North Dakota Higher Education Computer Network Subject: Womanism To: Socgrad list I think that the term "womanism" or "womanist" imply something that the presenter might not mean. If you are a feminist, you are in support of the ideas, and ideals of feminism. Speaking in circles? No, because feminism is the belief that "things" that are feminine are to be valued at the same level with those "things" that are masculine. But, the word "woman" is a biological term, making a womanist someone who would support womansim, or the support that that which is womanish (bio- logically) is to be valued at the same level as that which is maleish. Maybe I am off base, its early in the morning here. By the way, you didn't say what kind of SOCGRAD you are. SKEE -- Univ. North Dakota From socgrad-relay@ucsd.edu Thu Sep 16 06:35:49 1993 sendmail 5.67/UCSD-2.2-sun Thu, 16 Sep 93 06:34:02 -0700 for slincoln@weber.ucsd.edu Thu, 16 Sep 93 06:32:50 -0700 for /usr/mail/admin-checkandsend.sh socgrad Date: Thu, 16 Sep 93 07:35:03 EST From: Steve Harvey To: socgrad@ucsd.edu I don't know: What do you think of the term "manist" and "manism?" harvey@uconnvm From socgrad-relay@ucsd.edu Thu Sep 16 07:06:27 1993 sendmail 5.67/UCSD-2.2-sun Thu, 16 Sep 93 07:03:22 -0700 for slincoln@weber.ucsd.edu Thu, 16 Sep 93 07:01:34 -0700 for /usr/mail/admin-checkandsend.sh socgrad Date: Thu, 16 Sep 93 09:40:58 EDT From: "Bob G." Subject: Neutist or Neutism? To: socgrad@ucsd.edu Well, how about Neutist or Neutism? (Sounds kinda fishy, doesn't it? :) Also, *Is* womanism a biologically based term. I think Feminism would be more biologically based, as far as nomenclature goes, since it stems from the word FEMale. Personally, I think womanism stems from the backlash against feminism and adds little conceptually, but may be an important social mechanism. For those who wish to promote women's issues, yet don't want to be put in a feminist stereotype. Skee- type II, I think. :) Bob G. U of DE From socgrad-relay@ucsd.edu Thu Sep 16 07:48:05 1993 sendmail 5.67/UCSD-2.2-sun Thu, 16 Sep 93 07:44:49 -0700 for slincoln@weber.ucsd.edu Thu, 16 Sep 93 07:43:19 -0700 for /usr/mail/admin-checkandsend.sh socgrad Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1993 10:37:29 -0400 (EST) From: Daniel Ryan Subject: Re: Womanism To: socgrad@ucsd.edu On Thu, 16 Sep 1993 neese@nevada.edu wrote: > What do you think about the terms "womanist" and "womanism"? A term is a term is a term.... How CAN one think about a term unless one has some sense of what one is trying to say with it? Tell us more, Ms/Mr neese of nevada! yours in-term-inably, Dan From socgrad-relay@ucsd.edu Thu Sep 16 07:52:19 1993 sendmail 5.67/UCSD-2.2-sun Thu, 16 Sep 93 07:49:40 -0700 for slincoln@weber.ucsd.edu Thu, 16 Sep 93 07:47:35 -0700 for /usr/mail/admin-checkandsend.sh socgrad via Charon-4.0-VROOM with IPX id 100.930916104556.320; 16 Sep 93 10:46:01 +500 To: socgrad@ucsd.edu From: LEE@cati.umd.edu Date: 16 Sep 93 10:42:52 EDT Subject: Re: "Womanism" etc. Subj.: Bob G. What sort of "important social mechanism" might this terminology be? Social control perhaps...often the most effective means to keep the well inculcated (or fearful, embarrassed, ambitious, so on) in line. Also, see Noam Chomsky on the `real' meaning of political correctness. Is not the issue of the term itself actually a non-issue. Isn't is only of heuristic value?....at least for women and men not into gender isolation or bashing... From socgrad-relay@ucsd.edu Thu Sep 16 08:24:15 1993 sendmail 5.67/UCSD-2.2-sun Thu, 16 Sep 93 08:22:13 -0700 for slincoln@weber.ucsd.edu Thu, 16 Sep 93 08:20:18 -0700 for /usr/mail/admin-checkandsend.sh socgrad Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1993 11:11:46 -0400 (EST) From: Daniel Ryan Subject: How odd... To: socgrad Dear socgradlings -- How odd that a little comment about two words could elicit so much response from a group that has been so quiet lately. Ya' just never know what'll set 'em off.... On a related topic, though, in some off-net conversations with other socgrad'ers (one even on the telephone!) some ideas have been bandied about on how to liven things up. Here are two ideas that I've put forth -- they can be considered general queries. 1) Who, if anyone, is new on your faculty this year? What do they do? 2) Any new courses being taught in your department? Or has an old course been taken over by a new person? I'll answer these for our department in a separate post. Cheers, Dan From socgrad-relay@ucsd.edu Thu Sep 16 08:33:36 1993 sendmail 5.67/UCSD-2.2-sun Thu, 16 Sep 93 08:31:06 -0700 for slincoln@weber.ucsd.edu Thu, 16 Sep 93 08:29:19 -0700 for /usr/mail/admin-checkandsend.sh socgrad Date: Thu, 16 Sep 93 11:29 EDT From: "Pamela M Paxton" To: socgrad@UCSD.EDU Subject: womanism to be honest, my first thought was, eek gads not another term! I personally think we are having enough trouble dealing with the terms that we currently have difference, equality, gender, sex, feminism etc etc without adding more in there If people don't like the connotation of feminism we have to ask why not just make up a new term Pam Paxton UPAMMP@unc.oit.unc.edu From socgrad-relay@ucsd.edu Thu Sep 16 09:00:18 1993 sendmail 5.67/UCSD-2.2-sun Thu, 16 Sep 93 08:58:03 -0700 for slincoln@weber.ucsd.edu Thu, 16 Sep 93 08:56:42 -0700 for /usr/mail/admin-checkandsend.sh socgrad Date: Thu, 16 Sep 93 11:23:38 EDT From: "Bob G." Subject: Terms To: socgrad@ucsd.edu RE: LEE's comment about the term womenism (or should it be womanism?) Quick points and then I'll be quit (revert to Skee's type I) 1) I think LEE grasped what I meant by "social mechanism." Although it probably is more of social avoidance than social control (the backlash was the control) and social recognition. 2) Are several of you saying that terms, sui generis, are not important? -- I'll let the deconstructionalist and symbolic interactionists out there field those mighty big assumptions. 3) Subject: Bob G. ??? Have I become the subject of discussion? My ears are burning! :-) Bob G. U. of DE From socgrad-relay@ucsd.edu Thu Sep 16 09:24:09 1993 sendmail 5.67/UCSD-2.2-sun Thu, 16 Sep 93 09:21:51 -0700 for slincoln@weber.ucsd.edu Thu, 16 Sep 93 09:20:11 -0700 for /usr/mail/admin-checkandsend.sh socgrad From: David John Frank Subject: usonian To: socgrad@ucsd.edu Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1993 09:20:09 -0700 (PDT) I don't know what womanism means --- it sounds like something Phyllis Schlafley would call herself (a womanist) to be distinct from feminists. This discussion sparks a related idea -- what do we think of the term Usonian, to describe the people of the U.S.? Apparently it was a Frank Lloyd Wright invention to describe the style of his furniture, and I recently heard a poet (who's name escapes me at the moment) trying to revive it. Currently, the people of the U.S. describe themselves as American, which is slightly problematic given there are about 25 other countries in the Americas.... Occasional participant, David Frank From socgrad-relay@ucsd.edu Thu Sep 16 09:28:00 1993 sendmail 5.67/UCSD-2.2-sun Thu, 16 Sep 93 09:25:54 -0700 for slincoln@weber.ucsd.edu Thu, 16 Sep 93 09:21:06 -0700 for /usr/mail/admin-checkandsend.sh socgrad Date: Thu, 16 Sep 93 10:50 CDT From: "B.S. Fergen" Subject: Re: Womanism To: Dear Neese, In what context would these terms (womanism and womanist) be used? I have never seen them used in any context. Are they be incorporated into our writing? B.S. Fergen From socgrad-relay@ucsd.edu Thu Sep 16 09:44:23 1993 sendmail 5.67/UCSD-2.2-sun Thu, 16 Sep 93 09:41:20 -0700 for slincoln@weber.ucsd.edu Thu, 16 Sep 93 09:39:46 -0700 for /usr/mail/admin-checkandsend.sh socgrad From: bb05246@bingsuns.cc.binghamton.edu (bb05246) Subject: womanism To: socgrad@ucsd.edu Date: Thu, 16 Sep 93 12:36:55 EDT 'Womanist' is a term coined by Alice Walker some years ago (I can't find the citation). John Hollister From socgrad-relay@ucsd.edu Thu Sep 16 09:48:17 1993 sendmail 5.67/UCSD-2.2-sun Thu, 16 Sep 93 09:45:16 -0700 for slincoln@weber.ucsd.edu Thu, 16 Sep 93 09:43:42 -0700 for /usr/mail/admin-checkandsend.sh socgrad Date: Thu, 16 Sep 93 12:36 EDT From: Subject: Re: Amazed at use To: KLOSKY@VM1.NoDak.EDU >Listeners: Those who read all the SOCGRAD mail, but don't write any >Users: Those who read mail their interested in, and write mail > specific to their own interest areas >DieHards : Those who read all the mail, respond to EVERY issue raised by > Users, and also raise their own. These people eat, sleep and > inhale INTERNET >So, what kind of SOCGRAD are you? Well, I would classify myself as a listener, but now that I've responded I must be a user. OOhhh the existential angst of it all. >My issue for today: Has anyone heard of "Social Impact Theory?" Probably, but not me. And on this theory thing. It seems that every article in sociological journals purport to be either establishing, elaborating, or testing a theory. In fact though, most of what passes as a 'theory', is in most cases, little more than a collection of observations, speculations, and correlations. Am I being too strict in my definition of what I consider 'theory'? Jetaway Dave. From socgrad-relay@ucsd.edu Thu Sep 16 10:12:39 1993 sendmail 5.67/UCSD-2.2-sun Thu, 16 Sep 93 10:10:24 -0700 for slincoln@weber.ucsd.edu Thu, 16 Sep 93 10:08:10 -0700 for /usr/mail/admin-checkandsend.sh socgrad via Charon-4.0-VROOM with IPX id 100.930916130634.480; 16 Sep 93 13:06:40 +500 To: socgrad@ucsd.edu From: RALPH@cati.umd.edu Date: 16 Sep 93 13:03:25 EDT Subject: what is theory? jetaway dave and others interested! Do most articles in socy journal really deal with theory? i believe they pretend to but what is the role of theory in these articles? theory serves as an easy introduction (like a literature review) before authors get to the "really important" issues of data, methods and statistical analysis. if you look a little closer at what kind of articles have been published in the last four decades you will find that the number of articles including statistical analyses has grown dramatically while articles with a theoretical focus seem to take up less and less space. I believe very few articles make a theoretical arguement and come to a theoretically informed conclusion. high correlation coefficients (or other measures) have taken over as primary aspect of the sociological argument. Is this good/right or bad/wrong? Ralph ralph@cati.umd.edu From socgrad-relay@ucsd.edu Thu Sep 16 10:22:19 1993 sendmail 5.67/UCSD-2.2-sun Thu, 16 Sep 93 10:19:44 -0700 for slincoln@weber.ucsd.edu Thu, 16 Sep 93 10:14:54 -0700 for /usr/mail/admin-checkandsend.sh socgrad Date: Thu, 16 Sep 93 10:19:01 PDT From: ua840@freenet.victoria.bc.ca (Bruce Ravelli) To: socgrad@ucsd.edu Subject: unsubscribe socgrad From socgrad-relay@ucsd.edu Thu Sep 16 10:46:13 1993 sendmail 5.67/UCSD-2.2-sun Thu, 16 Sep 93 10:43:29 -0700 for slincoln@weber.ucsd.edu Thu, 16 Sep 93 10:41:42 -0700 for /usr/mail/admin-checkandsend.sh socgrad Date: Thu, 16 Sep 93 13:29:29 EST From: Steve Harvey To: socgrad@ucsd.edu In response to Jetaway Dave: Yep. Most of what passes for theory is just an atheoretical collection of observations, etc. It goes back to the old division of labor between sociology and economics: economists would play with "clean models," i.e., elegant abstractions that sacrifice "authenticity" for "managa- bility," while sociologists would cope with social phenomena in all of its rich detail. Unfortunately (or, maybe not unfortunately), that left them both as mere halves of a whole. Theory-building requires abstraction, something sociol- ogists are woefully loathe to stoop to; and theory refinement requires recourse to messy realities, something economists have avoided due to the damage it does to their nice, elegant models. There is now a rise in what's called "formal theory" across the social sciences (esp. political science, economics, and soc- iology): That is, rigorous model-building rather than slippery, evocative word- games. I'd be glad to discuss these things in more detail with whoever is int- erested. -Stand-still-steve. harvey@uconnvm ps. Oh, yeah, I guess i'm somewhere between a user and a die-hard. From socgrad-relay@ucsd.edu Thu Sep 16 11:21:02 1993 sendmail 5.67/UCSD-2.2-sun Thu, 16 Sep 93 11:15:59 -0700 for slincoln@weber.ucsd.edu Thu, 16 Sep 93 11:10:58 -0700 for /usr/mail/admin-checkandsend.sh socgrad To: socgrad@ucsd.edu Subject: Ms or Mr Date: Thu, 16 Sep 93 11:10:51 -0700 From: bigdog@nevada.edu Why is that of interest to the discussion? What is implyed by the asking of this question? A nosey socgrader who listens to learn. From socgrad-relay@ucsd.edu Thu Sep 16 11:37:12 1993 sendmail 5.67/UCSD-2.2-sun Thu, 16 Sep 93 11:35:27 -0700 for slincoln@weber.ucsd.edu Thu, 16 Sep 93 11:33:54 -0700 for /usr/mail/admin-checkandsend.sh socgrad To: socgrad@ucsd.edu Subject: Theory Date: Thu, 16 Sep 93 11:33:45 -0700 From: bigdog@nevada.edu Wow two messages in one day. I must have become more than a passive user and transfoed into E-mail user. Next I will have to learn how to use the spell checker. Here goes, Social Theory exists. It is as real as any other 19th century concept that we study. Is it hidden ib journals. Yes. Is it gone? No. No matter the level of methods, stats, or other such trappings we start with theory and it informs what we do. That process can be logical, hidden, silly, ect. It is there even if the reader can not find it. It may not be real to some and the assumptions behind reality or the theory may be suspect, but maybe some of us can agree that it is here. I disagree that the journals are more quat as of the last four years. Post Modernism, Multiculturalism, and Feminist theory (and Methods) have changed the debate. Not so much that Quat-mania has left, but surely it has reconsidered the debate. The challenge is to question the authority of these journals and methods so that additional voices can be heard. Kuhn would advise us, the next generation, to roam around in the problems of these paradigms and create new ways of framing the debates. Is researcdoable using Video? Emotions? Poems? E-Mail? Can theory inform praxis in the Post Modern world? Maybe the answer is to rid our profession of theory and methods and just forget the whole idea that any study of the social can or does exist. "When it gets to kinky for the rest of the world, Its getting just right for m Kinky Friedman, singer and writer Dave aka bigdog@nevada.edu PS: As the Next Generation do you think we can get a movie or TV deal? Trust Us, Were Sociologists (In Space) From socgrad-relay@ucsd.edu Thu Sep 16 12:28:39 1993 sendmail 5.67/UCSD-2.2-sun Thu, 16 Sep 93 12:24:38 -0700 for slincoln@weber.ucsd.edu Thu, 16 Sep 93 12:22:59 -0700 for /usr/mail/admin-checkandsend.sh socgrad Date: Thu, 16 Sep 93 14:59:41 EST From: Steve Harvey To: socgrad@ucsd.edu Bigdog's right, of course, that any "study" (discussion, discourse, perspective etc.) is implicitly or explicitly informed by some "paradigm" or another. But, by "theory," what exactly do we mean? Theories have value to the extent that they are explicit and unambiguous. Or, to put it another way, the word loses its meaning if we allow that everything is informed by theory because no pers- pective is free-floating. I don't agree with BD's interpretation of Kuhn: Kuhn wasn't for fishing around; he advocated (if his analysis can be said to have "advocated" anything at all) pushing clearly defined and rigorously tested frameworks to their limit, to reveal their anomolies, so that in the fervor to reconcile those anomolies, new and subtler frameworks might emerge. All of this takes place once a discipline has agreed to adhere to a given framework, and to push it to its limit (rather than, as we do, spend most of our energy talking aout why every sociological framework but our own is faulty). From socgrad-relay@ucsd.edu Thu Sep 16 12:32:16 1993 sendmail 5.67/UCSD-2.2-sun Thu, 16 Sep 93 12:28:25 -0700 for slincoln@weber.ucsd.edu Thu, 16 Sep 93 12:24:40 -0700 for /usr/mail/admin-checkandsend.sh socgrad Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1993 12:04:20 -0700 (PDT) From: Robert Duniway Subject: Re: your mail To: Steve Harvey On Thu, 16 Sep 1993, Steve Harvey wrote: > There is now a rise in what's called "formal theory" across the social sciences (esp. political science, economics, and sociology): That is, rigorous model-building rather than slippery, evocative word games. I'd be glad to discuss these things in more detail with whoever is interested. -Stand-still-steve. harvey@uconnvm There is? In this postmodern age? Please tell me more, and cite examples. I am very interested in doing research that is theoretically motivated, but which holds itself hostage to the evidence. I was becoming somewhat pessemistic about the chances of having such an approach tolerated in the factional academic world. Aong these lines, are you familiar with the work of David Wagner? He is working of a vision of theory as a set of competing "orienting strategies." He makes an interesting case for the need to integrate theory into empirical research, and the importance of viewing theories and methods not as THE WAY TO OBTAIN TRUTH, but rather as filters for deciding what of the overwhelming richness of experience to pay attention to. He also argues that any theoretical position, just as any specific research method, will ignore potentially interesting or useful details. This is not a fault to be overcome, but the price inherent in simplifying the world enough that it can be comprehended and manipulated. Rather than debate the merits of different theoretical (or methodological) approaches, he suggests a population ecology model. There are different substantive domains, and different research approaches. A researcher with a perticular interest, and a preference for a certain approach, will either find that approach useful for understanding and/or manipulating that subject, or she won't. Multiply this process by several researchers, and eventually you will have a situation in which certain approaches in, for example, the study of commodities markets, will have been demonstrated to be more useful, and will attract more users. If one approach becomes accepted by nearly everyone studying a particular subject, it will become the conventional knowledge about that subject. This state of affairs, however, will prove unstable for all the reasons Kuhn puts forward, and new theoretical orienting strategies will compete to explain the significants of the details overlooked by the dominant understanding. Well, this is longer than I thought it would be. Bob Duniway, User "Never trust a user with your television overnight." - The Pretenders From socgrad-relay@ucsd.edu Thu Sep 16 13:15:40 1993 sendmail 5.67/UCSD-2.2-sun Thu, 16 Sep 93 13:12:39 -0700 for slincoln@weber.ucsd.edu Thu, 16 Sep 93 13:10:28 -0700 for /usr/mail/admin-checkandsend.sh socgrad Date: Thu, 16 Sep 93 15:46 EDT From: Subject: Re: what is theory? To: RALPH@cati.umd.edu >jetaway dave and others interested! >Do most articles in socy journal really deal with theory? >i believe they pretend to but what is the role of theory in these >articles? theory serves as an easy introduction (like a literature >review) before authors get to the "really important" issues of data, >methods and statistical analysis. if you look a little closer at what >kind of articles have been published in the last four decades you >will find that the number of articles including statistical analyses >has grown dramatically while articles with a theoretical focus seem >to take up less and less space. I believe very few articles make a >theoretical arguement and come to a theoretically informed >conclusion. high correlation coefficients (or other measures) have >taken over as primary aspect of the sociological argument. >Is this good/right or bad/wrong? I certainly agree with the above statement that 'theory' is used primarily as a gateway to the 'really important' stuff like correlation coefficients, or to be a bit more modern, 'psuedo-bayesian semi-poisson distributions.' There's a smile in here somewhere folks. Wrong or right? Prefer not to pass judgement. Theory, methods, and statist statistics (sorry about some of these typos, PSU has installed an ethernet backbone and I can't for the life of me figure out how to delete items at the end of a line) are ultimately inseperable. Jetaway Dave >Ralph >ralph@cati.umd.edu From socgrad-relay@ucsd.edu Thu Sep 16 13:43:02 1993 sendmail 5.67/UCSD-2.2-sun Thu, 16 Sep 93 13:41:05 -0700 for slincoln@weber.ucsd.edu Thu, 16 Sep 93 13:39:18 -0700 for /usr/mail/admin-checkandsend.sh socgrad Date: Thu, 16 Sep 93 16:14:39 EDT From: Joya Misra Organization: Emory University - Atlanta, Georgia, USA Subject: DIEHARD HERE To: SOCGRAD@UCSD.EDU Well, since just about all my friends have piped up today, I feel like I better too, or you'll all think something terrible has happened to me. I saw Alice Walker talk about this "womanist" concept a few years ago. The way I remember it, she was arguing that "feminist" is somewhat of a reaction to what is a male-centered universe, while "womanist" was more centered around women's experiences as women, not as not-men. However, I could be remembering this all wrong. If not,as a woman, I wonder how possible being a "womanist" is, considering the maleness of our society. Hmm. Am I going in circles? In terms of theory, I think this "lack of theory" argument goes on in the same kinds of ways that Dan seemed to be arguing a couple weeks ago the "lack of community" argument goes on. I mean, we need to be explicit about what we mean when we say there's a lack of theory in our work. I pick up a journal, a book, etc. and I see people trying to use theory, sometimes not in exciting and new ways, but I believe it is there. When I teach, my classes are suffused with theory. What else am I doing but teaching my students how to theorize about the world, what other people have theorized and how to criticize those theories? I'm certainly not just trying to get them to swallow facts. If we weren't using theory, we'd be journalists. That said, I have also worked as a statistical consultant on some studies that were purely a-theoretical. But they sure didn't get published in AJS. Sorry to rant, I just feel a bit like there are fruitful grounds to play in here, but we shouldn't get too carried away and say sociological theory no longer exists. In terms of new faculty/courses, we have no new people this year, although we are hiring for two positions and I would suggest people apply for since this is a great place for junior faculty (good money, 2&2, great fun active colleagues) if you are in political economy or race and ethnicity. Let me know if you want details. New courses: we have tons. All the students teach courses of their own design and it usually gets pretty cool and unusual - we have courses on racial solidarity and the labor movement, revolutions and rebellions, last term I taught a class on racism and sexism cross-culturally. Sorry to go on, but us diehards, we ****ing breathe internet, you know. joya emory university socak663@emuvm1.bitnet socak663@emuvm1.cc.emory.edu From socgrad-relay@ucsd.edu Thu Sep 16 13:56:23 1993 sendmail 5.67/UCSD-2.2-sun Thu, 16 Sep 93 13:54:13 -0700 for slincoln@weber.ucsd.edu Thu, 16 Sep 93 13:52:43 -0700 for /usr/mail/admin-checkandsend.sh socgrad by weber.ucsd.edu (8.6.beta.10/UCSDGENERIC.4c) on ttys2 Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1993 13:52:42 -0700 From: lmiller@weber.ucsd.edu (Laura Miller) To: socgrad@ucsd.edu Subject: sign on new members Greetings everyone, and welcome to the start of (yet another) academic year. I hope everybody had a restful summer. I was away for the last month and have just managed to get through my accumulated messages; I'll probably chime in on current discussins once I'm more organized here. While I know that the first few weeks of the year tend to be chaotic, I'd like to make a request of Socgrad subscribers. Could you take it upon yourselves to inform the new batch of first-year stidents in your departments about Socgrad, and encourage them to sign up? At this point, word-of-mouth is the only way that people can find out about our network. Many new students probably need assistance getting an email account (or just figuring out what email and the Internet are), so remember how bewildering grad school was when you first started, and lend a hand... In case you've forgotten, to subscribe to Socgrad, send a message to listserv@ucsd.edu (or if you're on BITNET, to listserv@ucsd.bitnet -- but if you have the choice, use Internet as there tend to be more technical problems with BITNET), and in the body of the message, type: sub socgrad Any problems, questions, etc. can of course be sent to me. Socgrad currently has approximately 225 subscribers, and has been operating since January 1993. I look forward to another year of information sharing, debate, etc. Laura Miller lmiller@ucsd.edu lmiller@ucsd.bitnet From socgrad-relay@ucsd.edu Thu Sep 16 16:18:51 1993 sendmail 5.67/UCSD-2.2-sun Thu, 16 Sep 93 16:17:12 -0700 for slincoln@weber.ucsd.edu Thu, 16 Sep 93 16:15:59 -0700 for /usr/mail/admin-checkandsend.sh socgrad Date: Thu, 16 Sep 93 19:15:57 EDT From: David Gibson To: socgrad@ucsd.edu Subject: theory Ralph and others, I think that the empiricist turn in sociological publications which you identify may be looked upon 50-100 years from now as a *good* thing, from the perspective of sociological theory. Now to account for this paradoxical statement... Much early sociological theory was either imbued with philosophical speculation (which, by the very nature of the philosophical "language game," is invulnerable to empirical test), or was devised by individuals who felt obliged (for reasons related to the discipline's historical origins, and identified by Merton) to turn out all-encompassing theoretical "systems," or both. Marx falls in both categories, and many fine scholars have applied themselves to separating his philosophy from his sociology (Dahrendorf comes to mind, as does the political theorist Giovanni Sartori, who, I think, is a bit too dismissive of what might be salvaged as "scientific" in Marx). Contemporary examples include Giddens (and, recently, Sewell), Habermas, perhaps Berger & Luckmann, and *certainly* Parsons. Merton had these "theorists" (and Parsons in particular) in mind when he advocated the abandonment of system-building in favor of the construction of "middle-range" theory. Now, if the generalization made in the initial posting about the excessively empirical nature of current publications is correct (and someone disputed it, but no matter), then it would appear that the discipline has gone overboard in response to Merton's call. But while not disputing the accuracy of this characterization on the surface level, I submit that the empiricist trend is precisely *more* compatible with the development of truly "scientific" sociological theory than was the earlier, philosophical trend (not yet dead). Steve Harvey writes correctly that "Theory-building requires abstraction," and a substantial body of empirical literature, I think it is reasonable to say, lends itself to this variety of abstraction much better than does armchair theorizing and metatheorizing, which is abstract from the start, and yet decidedly nonempirical. To draw on Wittgenstein again, the "language game" of empirical description leads into that of scientific theorizing quite naturally, since ultimately the two are flip sides of the *same* (scientific) game, while philosophy, the language-game of nonempirical speculation, couldn't be further out in left field, with philosophical theorizing (Giddens, Habermas) but a step closer to the infield. Incidentally, I reject the assertion that "No matter what level of methods, stats, or other such trappings we start with theory and it informs what we do." The interests pursued and methods employed by a researcher have more to do, I think, with how a person was trained and what interests they have developed for biographical reasons than with some consciously or unconsciously applied theory. And though we might call the set of assumptions that guides the empirical researcher a "paradigm," they are a far cry from an explicitly articulated theory, Kuhn notwithstanding. David Gibson  From socgrad-relay@ucsd.edu Thu Sep 16 20:11:37 1993 sendmail 5.67/UCSD-2.2-sun Thu, 16 Sep 93 20:09:51 -0700 for slincoln@weber.ucsd.edu Thu, 16 Sep 93 20:07:46 -0700 for /usr/mail/admin-checkandsend.sh socgrad Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1993 20:23:57 -0400 (EST) From: Daniel Ryan Subject: An example of "theory" I'd love to hear reactions to... To: socgrad Greetings, I guess today I'm being a hardcorite -- my home machine died so I have to use sytems capable of multiprocessing up on campus so I can stay logged on as I write. Anyway, it's good to see/hear everyone again. A few years ago a paper by Daniel Chambliss won the award for best piece of theory given by the theory section of the ASA. The title was "The Mundanity of Excellence: An Ethnographic Report on Stratification in Swimming." (Sociological Theory 1989 or so*) Besides being a great article, it is an interesting example of sociological work and of how theory and observation work together. How about that -- all those big abstraction types giving an award to a paper with the word ethnographic in it! It's also very well written. (I've heard thru the grapevine from people I've recommended it to that it is used in several "how to do sociology" graduate seminars around the country.) I think that it demonstrates some principles that are important to keep in mind during these theory-yes-theory-no-what-is-theory-what's-not-theory discussions. One is that this theory vs. the other stuff dichotomy, like the quant vs. qual dichotomy, is perhaps best resolved nike-fashion by "just doing it." Might we also ask whether there is a difference between social theory and sociological theory? Cheers, Dan *I'm sure the author would be happy to send you a copy if you can't find it in your library or on your bookshelf: Daniel F. Chambliss Hamilton College Sociology Department Clinton, NY 13323 From socgrad-relay@ucsd.edu Thu Sep 16 20:55:59 1993 sendmail 5.67/UCSD-2.2-sun Thu, 16 Sep 93 20:53:00 -0700 for slincoln@weber.ucsd.edu Thu, 16 Sep 93 20:51:11 -0700 for /usr/mail/admin-checkandsend.sh socgrad To: socgrad@ucsd.edu Subject: Kuhn and Theory Date: Thu, 16 Sep 93 20:51:05 -0700 From: bigdog@nevada.edu Kuhn was a back-sliding theory man. He not only wanted us to extend the "clearly defined .. frameworks" of current theory but to recognize the illogical basis for the transformation from one paradigm to another. He did recant the radical view of his ideas but once that cat is out of the bag no one has been able to put back into the bag with feeling the claws. I can't be so reductionists as to define a theory as only tied to a paradigm or metatheory or midrange or just "training and .. interests". It then become hard to talk of how theory informs life. Today my class asked how to define the concept "Political" Is it actions, feelings, or whatever? Well I answered with a question of what may be political to me may not be political to you. I feel every action we engage in or fail too is political. They felt different. The issue was sexism. Political or not? I said it is and not only that but your answer is theory. In that context theory is action or lack of action. The personal is political. Kuhn and Reynolds reformulation of the Kuhn paradigm can allow us to view theory in many contexts. Is that not what we do anyway? My theory is your ideology. My actions is your midrange. What is more important is do we need this concept of a paradigm? Is it so tied to the western tradition of polarization in thought that maybe the only answer is to trash the whole idea and start new? Must we continue to fight the 19th century battles of theory vs methods or quat vs qual or any other bi farcated debate? Is it possiable to stop killing each other softly and seek harmony in interaction? Oh well I am not good at it but to try is the quest. What is that noise? Just the roll of the earth as some young turks question the validity of all they see and know. bigdog enjoying the desert southwest but homesick for his old southern home. From socgrad-relay@ucsd.edu Thu Sep 16 22:02:26 1993 sendmail 5.67/UCSD-2.2-sun Thu, 16 Sep 93 22:00:40 -0700 for slincoln@weber.ucsd.edu Thu, 16 Sep 93 21:59:14 -0700 for /usr/mail/admin-checkandsend.sh socgrad Date: Fri, 17 Sep 93 0:59:12 EDT From: David Gibson To: socgrad@ucsd.edu Subject: dear bigdog... Bigdog, As soon as a word is permitted to denote everything, it ceases to have any definite meaning whatsoever, and becomes useless. Do science a favor and don't equate "theory" with everything under the sun. DG  From socgrad-relay@ucsd.edu Thu Sep 16 23:33:47 1993 sendmail 5.67/UCSD-2.2-sun Thu, 16 Sep 93 23:23:24 -0700 for slincoln@weber.ucsd.edu Thu, 16 Sep 93 23:10:31 -0700 for /usr/mail/admin-checkandsend.sh socgrad Date: Fri, 17 Sep 93 02:09:42 EDT From: Gregory_Nagy@MTS.cc.Wayne.edu To: socgrad@ucsd.edu Subject: Kuhn...me thinks! At the core of Kuhn's argument is, among other things, the concept of normal science. According to Kuhn, normal science is "...research firmly based upon one or more past scientific achievements..." . More specifically, normal science is defined as occurring within some established paradigm. Kuhn describes paradigms as consisting of the theory, methods, and instrumentation developed by communities of scholars/scientists who become adherents to some school of thought/scientific inquiry which becomes increasingly founded upon some growing general body of belief about some scientific point of interest. According to Kuhn, it is only because of that general body of belief that a scientific field can mature. Kuhn explains, that without taken for granted assumptions regarding a given scientific endeavor, each scientist and group of scientists would have to report and share their research by defining the most basic concepts. Not only is normal science that nature of inquiry which occurs within a given paradigm, but it is generally constrained and driven by that paradigm. It entails the articulation of theory and method, both of which are driven by and to some extent drive the paradigm to which they relate. The theory and method, in turn, contribute or fail to contribute to the paradigm. But where does the paradigm begin? A novel paradigm *probably* begins its existence when a community of researchers coalesce in order to explain some phenomenal, anomalous, and -what may later be called- revolutionary event. At some point during its inchoate existence, i.e., its pre-paradigm phase, a certain amount of quasi-scientific method and theory articulation is simultaneously used. Kuhn must regard this method as quasi-scientific in order to maintain logical consistency among the premises of his argument, for he presents normal science as paradigm driven as necessarily based on some established precedent. Thus, as precedent is set normal science enters the picture at some point as a "puzzle solving" activity in which the outcome of research is theoretically expected. That is, all of the pieces are supposed to be in the puzzle box, i.e., the paradigm. The structure of scientific inquiry then is based on the ingenuity of the puzzler, and the successful puzzler thus becomes -in a sense- the puzzlist, and may then put their juxtaposed pieces back in the box for future puzzlers to piece together, reposition, and "discover". The more ingenious puzzlers simply rely less and less on precedent. The point that as the paradigm matures so too does that body of belief, deserves more attention. It seems plausible that as the complex of belief grows, the actual noting of some anomaly (one of Kuhn preconditions for revolution) may become less likely. It is more than one having difficulty seeing the forest for the trees, which often implies a simple lack of ingenuity of perception. More fundamentally, if basic assumptions and core concepts about the subject matter at hand are simply wrong all subsequent scientific endeavors will be accurately reproducing inaccurate (though expected) outcome. However, Kuhn argues that since the noting of an anomaly necessarily entails the backdrop of a given paradigm, any scientist wishing to see such anomalies must adhere to his/her paradigm with precise and far reaching methodology. And since it is the paradigm which takes priority in Kuhn's argument this premise is necessary in order to maintain the logical consistency of his argument. As paradigms mature, an increasing body of knowledge grows on the basis of both established and non established rules. This provides a "common body of belief" upon and against which method, theory, and instruments for detection, are refined and articulated. Kuhn refers to this amalgamation of taken for granted things as a "common body of belief" rather than a common body of knowledge, inasmuch as, those things which at one point where principle points of contention, and were concepts demanding attention, are generally not reconsidered by the adherents of the maturing paradigm. Thus, research reports structurally move from book form -in which all of the basic concepts are introduced, considered and defined- to articles which presuppose and presume that all of the basic assumptions upon which it rests are naturally defined or are natural families. Of course, the more mature the paradigm becomes the more it converts to a system of belief. Thus, its members become not knowledgeable scientists, but rather converted ones. Theory, method, and instrumentation are necessarily intertwined. Based on what the members of a given paradigm think they know about something, they develop instruments of detection for the noting of so-called empirical regularities. The temporal contiguity of this activity varies. In some cases, theories are develop long before instrumentation, in others virtually simultaneously... Greg N. Question: At what point should concepts be taken for granted?  From socgrad-relay@ucsd.edu Thu Sep 16 23:57:57 1993 sendmail 5.67/UCSD-2.2-sun Thu, 16 Sep 93 23:47:57 -0700 for slincoln@weber.ucsd.edu Thu, 16 Sep 93 23:38:20 -0700 for /usr/mail/admin-checkandsend.sh socgrad Date: Fri, 17 Sep 93 02:37:38 EDT From: Gregory_Nagy@MTS.cc.Wayne.edu To: socgrad@ucsd.edu Subject: More theory... I'm not sure if any collection of observations could be totally devoid of theory... I would, however, definetly want to argue that when people speak about secondary (exploratory) data analysis results as rising up and speaking to them independently of any previous or concurrent qualitative/theoretical considerations, or that it is only at that stage of the analysis that they are interpreting results, that they are simply wrong and unaware... The transconceptualization of events to numbers involves quite a bit of interpretation right in the beginning... How about this? There is no method totally devoid of theory... There is no quantitative without qualitative... Greg N. From socgrad-relay@ucsd.edu Fri Sep 17 00:14:26 1993 sendmail 5.67/UCSD-2.2-sun Fri, 17 Sep 93 00:06:46 -0700 for slincoln@weber.ucsd.edu Thu, 16 Sep 93 23:40:14 -0700 for /usr/mail/admin-checkandsend.sh socgrad To: socgrad@ucsd.edu Subject: Dear Science Date: Thu, 16 Sep 93 23:40:11 -0700 From: bigdog@nevada.edu I am sorry. I forgot that it was a sin to question the nature of your most holy of holies, theory. Your dear servant, David was kind enough to correct me and make sure that I was silent from now on. I must say that for a brief span of time I was happy to be apart of all that is science and all that is good in this world. But after the Columbia sin police completed their thought arrest I was forced to reconsider. See I have this problem, I do not like what I am taught. My theory professor was at Columbia when Merton taught and he tells me the rules, I just forget. See Dmitri left Russia because he felt that his ideas were restricted. Well those thought police eat their own and it must now be our turn. I just want to know if it was my Post Modern ideas, Zen Sociology ideas, or something else that offended. Well it is now time for me to drop off the net. Your faithful servant, Dave Ballard aka bigdog From socgrad-relay@ucsd.edu Wed Sep 22 09:23:36 1993 sendmail 5.67/UCSD-2.2-sun Wed, 22 Sep 93 09:21:33 -0700 for slincoln@weber.ucsd.edu sendmail 5.67/UCSD-2.2-sun Wed, 22 Sep 93 09:18:40 -0700 for /usr/mail/admin-checkandsend.sh socgrad Date: Wed, 22 Sep 93 09:18:40 -0700 From: postmast@ucsd.edu (UCSD Postmaster) To: socgrad@ucsd.edu Subject: test Please ignore. Andrew Ferrell [postmaster@ucsd.edu || postmast@ucsd.BITNET] Postmaster, UCSD Network Operations 9500 Gilman Drive La Jolla, Ca. 92093-0124 >From socgrad-relay@ucsd.edu Wed Sep 22 15:00:39 1993 sendmail 5.67/UCSD-2.2-sun Wed, 22 Sep 93 14:56:40 -0700 for slincoln@weber.ucsd.edu Wed, 22 Sep 93 14:54:07 -0700 for /usr/mail/admin-checkandsend.sh socgrad Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1993 17:30:52 -0400 (EST) >From: Daniel Ryan Subject: Goings on at Yale To: socgrad Greetings, ya'll -- A long delayed response to my own posting about what's happening in departments around the country. First of all, the Yale department is still in existence and is pretty much rising from the ashes of the trouble it faced a few years back (which, in a nutshell, involved a few administrators -- including the president -- seemingly convinced that the discipline had become superfluous in a large university environment, and a decision by such beings to cut the department by about 40%). Personnel changes. Albert Reiss has retired -- well, he was made emeritus faculty, but he is around everyday and is at least as active a scholar as anyone else in the department. Three new junior faculty were hired this spring. Josh Gamson comes to us from Berkeley. He's teaching an undergraduate course on gender and social change and a grad seminar on field work. Michelle Dillon comes here from teaching at Rutgers (PhD Berkeley). Some of her work is on reproductive politics -- her job talk was on the abortion debates in Ireland. Joe Soares comes here from teaching at Harvard. He's teaching the graduate classical theory seminar -- the first time they've "let" a junior person do that in a long time and the undergrad theory course. There are a few new courses, notably Michelle's on Reproductive Politics, and Deborah Davis' (dept chair) course "Setting the Scholarly Agenda: American Sociology from 1950 to 1990." She actually taught it once before, but as things go, it's still a "new" course. This course includes reading/looking through 40 years of ASR and AJS, tracing the development of the study of some substantive issue over this time. We have 8 new students (5/3 f/m) who strike me as pretty darn sharp. I mention this as ironic evidence of the fact that news about problems in a department probably reaches last the people to whom it might matter the most. Grad school selection, like some many similar processes, is pretty much dominated by bounded rationality. As for sense of community -- on the way to a church book sale (they advertised that they'd have a lot of soc books) last weekend, my first year "buddy" (we match first years with older folks) said something like "This place is more like a family than a department." Now before you react, let me say that this is a pretty new phenomenon here. Anyway, that's a little glimpse at us. See ya'll 'round. Cheers, Dan ................................................ A precipice in front, wolves behind. -- Erasmus Dan Ryan 32 Pearl St. New Haven, CT 06511 danryan@minerva.cis.yale.edu >From socgrad-relay@ucsd.edu Wed Sep 22 16:08:16 1993 sendmail 5.67/UCSD-2.2-sun Wed, 22 Sep 93 15:54:24 -0700 for slincoln@weber.ucsd.edu Wed, 22 Sep 93 15:49:16 -0700 for /usr/mail/admin-checkandsend.sh socgrad Date: Wed, 22 Sep 93 18:41:44 EDT >From: Joya Misra Organization: Emory University - Atlanta, Georgia, USA Subject: HELLO OUT THERE? To: SOCGRAD@UCSD.EDU So is the list back up and running? Have others been getting messages or what? Did you guys get my post about reading the Chambliss piece together and starting a discussion of it in a few weeks? A la our Coleman discussion last Spring? Re: community and family etc. A couple years ago one of our professors was talking to a guy who had been made three job offers and was trying to decide where go. One of the job offers was here, and another was where this junior prof of ours had been for grad school. Our prof in comparing the schools said "_ is like being a member of a dysfunctional family, Emory is like being a member of a functional family." I've loved that characterization for a long time...but then I love being a member of at least ONE functional family. Tomorrow some grad students who watch Star Trek and Seinfeld are dropping by my home for some community building over the TV...Ya'll are all welcome! joya socak663@emuvm1.bitnet socak663@emuvm1.cc.emory.edu >From socgrad-relay@ucsd.edu Wed Sep 22 17:15:54 1993 sendmail 5.67/UCSD-2.2-sun Wed, 22 Sep 93 17:13:30 -0700 for slincoln@weber.ucsd.edu Wed, 22 Sep 93 17:04:20 -0700 for /usr/mail/admin-checkandsend.sh socgrad Date: Wed, 22 Sep 93 18:58:50 CDT >From: KLOSKY@VM1.NoDak.EDU Organization: North Dakota Higher Education Computer Network Subject: Star Trek!! To: Socgrad list Love to hear that others what Star Trek as well. There is a lot of analysis of ST and STNG and even STDSN that can be done, and even useful. Not only is it science fiction, but also a source for interesting science projects! Lets talk about the uniforms.... (okay, I'll talk, you listen) :) :) Why is it that the women's uniforms fit so much tighter in the chest area than the men's do (a good answer does not include reference to female anatomy). And what about Trio? Why is she always out of uniform on the bridge? There are other issues as well. STNG brings up a great deal interesting societies (namely, ones based on modern day idealism) and shows the weaknesses. Hope you enjoy the last summer has to offer, fall starts tomorrow..... SKEE >From socgrad-relay@ucsd.edu Wed Sep 22 18:44:41 1993 sendmail 5.67/UCSD-2.2-sun Wed, 22 Sep 93 18:42:39 -0700 for slincoln@weber.ucsd.edu Wed, 22 Sep 93 18:38:23 -0700 for /usr/mail/admin-checkandsend.sh socgrad Date: Wed, 22 Sep 93 21:33:54 EST >From: Alan Subject: Theory To: socgrad@ucsd.edu I sense that the original may have gotten lost when the system shut down. So, Date: Mon, 20 Sep 93 21:26:10 EST >From: Alan Davidson Subject: Theory To: socgrad@ucsd.edu I was away the end of the last week, and I just got back earlier today (if this reads like I was up at 4:15 this Morning and didn't take a nap, excuse me). Anyway, I see a number of tendencies in this discussion which may be more of an artifact of how Theory is taught (or in many cases, isn't) in graduate schoo ls across the country. First, theory isn't necessarily abstract. It is possib le to deal with "macro-level" phenomena while still being grounded in "reality" -- This is, to a great extent what the Cultural Studies people are up to as well as the more popular cultural criticism on both the left and right (from Ma rcuse and Bell on down to James Davison Hunter and Peter Berger). While one tends not to get Ph.D.'s and tenure for writing theory devoid of significance l evels to tell us whether we have "truth" or not (my masculinity has always been able to withstand such threats), if we don't have theory, we have no other way of questioning whether the questions we ask -- even if they gain statistically significant results perhaps should have been given a nice burial 25 years ago ( can you tell I'm a Sociologist of Religion?). This leads to the second point. There seems to be this notion, as reiterated b y one post, that method follows theory, or at least this is a simultaneous oc currence. In actuality, and all you need to do is read Stanley Lieberson or lo ok at the history of both Structural-Functionalism and Symbolic Interactionism, and it was survey research and a supposedly scientific, objective, researcher- center while supposedly humanistic Participant Observation that led to the form s these paradigms took -- for a number of years after Merton and Blumer, no new theoretical innovations came to the fore, never mind these theorists were not calling for method-driven Sociology. It is just that in our quest to convince administrators that we are as scientific if not more so than departments with better resources, that new fangled methods, even if they are "measuring" forty year old notions and concepts are more rewarded than people who are going to question the entire enterprise of social science itself Take Care, Alan So, >From socgrad-relay@ucsd.edu Wed Sep 22 22:43:49 1993 sendmail 5.67/UCSD-2.2-sun Wed, 22 Sep 93 22:41:54 -0700 for slincoln@weber.ucsd.edu Wed, 22 Sep 93 22:39:41 -0700 for /usr/mail/admin-checkandsend.sh socgrad To: socgrad@ucsd.edu Subject: Theory Date: Wed, 22 Sep 93 22:39:36 -0700 >From: bigdog@nevada.edu Last week the discussion about theory was interupted (at least for this campus) by the unstable connections out of UCSD. I wanted to add something to the debate that could not be communicated due to those problems. Reality is a messy thing. So theory is an equally messy thing. We can not assume that the old theory constructs will or ever did have any significance to our current culture (s). The dogmatic adherence to what consitutes theory is an example of the same mindset that gave us the Inquisition. The world changed when divine rule was upset by science. A change occured that tried to offer a new way of ordering the social world. We created these and just like the church asked for submission to theory authority. Science replaced God as the creator of the world. If we accept that theory and society are messy and they interact with the purpose of helping us to order the chaos of life, then it is possible that our conception of what is theory can (must) be messy. Perhaps the bext we can hope for is some pragmatic form of the construct, theory. That is theory should treat (historcally ?) phenomena with specific reference to their causes, anticedent conditions, and results. We should take a practical point of view. What works in the world. At the same time that we try to match theory to reality (our perception of it) we can not exclude alternatives from the discussion. Looking for new ways to discuss theory, to generate theory, and to be theorist should be the motive of scholarship (at least the theory version). We may not need sciemtific theocrats or a theorcracy of dogmatic science. Sure these statements conflict. We can have room for theocrats but they must give some recognition of alternative views. I do and even if the strict theocrats dominate the science then maybe it is more than fair to allow some questioning of the that dominate position. The search for alternatives clashes with what the pragmatic idea listed above. OK, while theory should work in the real world, it must also seek the edge, look to find its own problems, and maybe even its own demise. Lets try what works and then try to undermine it. From socgrad-relay@ucsd.edu Thu Sep 23 08:39:19 1993 sendmail 5.67/UCSD-2.2-sun Thu, 23 Sep 93 08:36:44 -0700 for slincoln@weber.ucsd.edu Thu, 23 Sep 93 08:34:10 -0700 for /usr/mail/admin-checkandsend.sh socgrad Subject: Re: Theory To: DAVIDSON%UCONNVM.bitnet@YaleVM.YCC.Yale.Edu (Alan) Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1993 10:18:08 -0500 (CDT) From: "Elizabeth H. Schaefer" Dear Socgraders, I've been off the list for a while, due to an unforseen relocation from U of Nebraska to Notre Dame. This was a good move for me, because I was trying to do soc of religion in a vacuum where I was before. I couldn't catch up on the list enough to read the entire discussion on theory, but I'm interested to know how many people out there are taking an area exam in theory. Despite advice from some here at ND, I have decided to take this as my second area (in addition to religion). Is there a general concensus against theory as an area exam? If so, why is this? Forgive me if I ask questions previously covered: What are the feelings about philosophically informed theory? A friend of mine is attending the Baltimore Art Institue for his MFA. Their main goal in this program is to teach students the ways of the great masters, so that they can be empowered to develop their art. It seems that we may be lacking this approach in sociology. While we read our great masters, we do not necessarily attempt to emulate their style. At the root of these authors is an attention to epistemology and philosophy, in general. Perhaps our theory would have a greater scope if it was informed by these roots. Hope you all had a rejuvinating Summer! P.S. Joya, can you repeat your message about the article for discussion. Thanks. Elizabeth Schaefer eschaefe@bach.helios.nd.edu From socgrad-relay@ucsd.edu Thu Sep 23 14:29:26 1993 sendmail 5.67/UCSD-2.2-sun Thu, 23 Sep 93 14:26:02 -0700 for slincoln@weber.ucsd.edu Thu, 23 Sep 93 14:22:56 -0700 for /usr/mail/admin-checkandsend.sh socgrad Date: Thu, 23 Sep 93 17:04:50 EDT From: Joya Misra Organization: Emory University - Atlanta, Georgia, USA Subject: CHAMBLISS ARTICLE ETC. To: SOCGRAD@UCSD.EDU Hi guys! Let me first issue a heartfelt welcome back to Elizabeth. I've missed your presence. And I personally think theory is entirely appropriate and marketable as a "subject area." I think, though, that we should be careful not to suggest in our teaching/learning theory that theory is separate from the substantive work we do. Every class is a "theory" class, just we focus on certain areas of theoretical discussion - such as stratification or identity or the state. On the other hand, we also need theorists to keep us honest about how sociological theory fits together as a whole. My, I'm a-ramblin'. Below are the words I typed out almost a week ago...referring to the theory discussion we were having. The Chambliss article was initially brought up by Dan Ryan as being a good example of theory. The cite: Dan Chambliss, 1989, "The Mundanity of Excellence: An Ethnographic Report on Stratification and Olympic Swimmers," _Sociological Theory_, 7(1)70-86. If any of you have trouble getting a copy of it, email me your address and I'll snail mail a copy. It's a fun read as well as being a really outstanding piece of research/theorizing. I'd suggest starting our chat about it in about two weeks or so. How's that sound? Right now, I'm off to make some guacamole for the celebration of pop culture this evening. Enjoy yourselves! Last week's lost message: Well, after my rant yesterday, I realized I hadn't been entirely clear about what seemed not-right somehow about the whole theory discussion. Look, we ARE sociologists, right now, and if we think we can find better ways to use theory than have been done, it's up to us not just to complain about the state of the discipline or talk about "what's missing" as if we have nothing to do with it. Sociology is US, and it's up to us to simply go in and DO IT. We shouldn't just talk about what we think is best, but actually write papers using ours thoughts, making better and better sociology (Steve Harvey, for example, has a very nice paper which illustrates the arguments he has made here...I imagine many of us do...so let's share our work and publish our work and not just say "Oh woe is sociology"). That said, I would be intrigued in the possibility of doing with the Chambliss piece what we did last Spring with Coleman. Maybe three weeks from now or so, we could have a discussion about the article. We all probably know that this is a technique for not justlosing ourselves in abstraction, but I think it may be a good time for such a technique. joya misra SOCAK663@EMUVM1.BITNET OR SOCAK663@EMUVM1.CC.EMORY.EDU Dept. of Sociology Emory University Atlanta, Ga 30322 From socgrad-relay@ucsd.edu Fri Sep 24 06:56:45 1993 sendmail 5.67/UCSD-2.2-sun Fri, 24 Sep 93 06:54:38 -0700 for slincoln@weber.ucsd.edu Fri, 24 Sep 93 06:52:31 -0700 for /usr/mail/admin-checkandsend.sh socgrad via Charon-4.0-VROOM with IPX id 100.930924095029.2240; 24 Sep 93 09:51:07 +500 To: socgrad@ucsd.edu From: LEE@cati.umd.edu Date: 24 Sep 93 09:30:56 EDT Subject: Theory Discussion I wonder if the self-selecting sample of sociology students who have put out over this network such provocative and thoughtful discussion on theory over the past week are exceptions in the grad student population? There was a first year student at U. of Maryland (with a bachelor's in sociology) who reportedly was not sure who Karl Marx was and couldn't articulate much of anything he had contributed. I have met demographers and others who seem content to crank data, make tables, and have little interest outside their tiny, focused area of research. These examples seem to be extreme but nevertheless indicative of a much larger trend in the graduate student population where learning to be technicians and methodologists is a more consuming and reinforced objective of graduate "training" than being involved in theoretical discourse. What do other people think about this? What are your impressions at your school and elsewhere? My attitude (and ongoing goal/enjoyment) is of a wider scope, and I sense clearly this is the case with many others. Debating, exploring, and trying to come to terms with theoretical issues are critical to our development as good sociologists. I consider myself a scholar foremost and sociologist afterwards. One is the general and the other is the specific in my interests and activities. Studying theory, philosophy, epistemology, metaphysics, mythology and other areas involving examination of assumptions and structures of conceptual frameworks is necessary for my growth as BOTH a scholar and a sociologist. Of course, my dual description of scholar and sociologist is mostly for convenience as each role flows into the other and informs the other. Studying Nietsche's work has helped me to understand theories of deviance in a different light. Studying epistemology has helped me evaluate differences in theories of indirect and direct perception as well as the debate between behaviorism and humanism. On the other hand, as a sociologist and social psychologist, studying probability theory and the practice of statistical analysis has given me invaluable conceptual tools to view my own (likely?) place in the cosmos and interpreting the findings/musing of astrophysics. What are your experiences? Lee From socgrad-relay@ucsd.edu Fri Sep 24 07:58:17 1993 sendmail 5.67/UCSD-2.2-sun Fri, 24 Sep 93 07:52:33 -0700 for slincoln@weber.ucsd.edu Fri, 24 Sep 93 07:49:42 -0700 for /usr/mail/admin-checkandsend.sh socgrad Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1993 10:51:54 -0400 (EDT) From: "Del Rounds, (803) 953-5072, 953-5066" Subject: U of M student! To: socgrad@ucsd.edu As only an occasional contributor to this list I tend to respond only to the truly unusual comments. I was wondering where this student came from that did NOT know who Karl Marx was? Isn't Marx in the first 10 or 20 pages of ALL sociology textbooks? Now I'm going to have a bad day! Del. From socgrad-relay@ucsd.edu Fri Sep 24 09:22:01 1993 sendmail 5.67/UCSD-2.2-sun Fri, 24 Sep 93 09:18:38 -0700 for slincoln@weber.ucsd.edu Fri, 24 Sep 93 09:15:52 -0700 for /usr/mail/admin-checkandsend.sh socgrad via Charon-4.0-VROOM with IPX id 100.930924121417.384; 24 Sep 93 12:14:28 +500 To: socgrad@ucsd.edu From: S-ENDER@bss1.umd.edu Date: 24 Sep 93 12:14:13 EDT Subject: U of M student, NOT! in response to del and lee ...before the discussion electrically free associates...let me make it perfectly clear that the student who didn't know karl marx could not have come from maryland (college park)...there are to many graduate students teaching and assisting to have any undergraduate sociology majors fall through the academic cracks and not be familiar with that german guy, born may 5th, 1818 with the really cool beard from trier, prussia... ...moreover, the point is not to identify people or places (professional ethics)...i think lee's distinction between a general education and specific skills is the point... ...did you here about the guy/gal who went to the general store, s/he couldn't buy anything specific...(sorry, its friday afternoon)... ...i think and feel strongly that we aren't leaving departments both at the undergraduate and graduate level with "a good cognitive map of the discipline[(s)] as a whole." yet, my prophalactic idealist orientation informs me that specific skills, honed from hours fronting a computer terminal with a manual by one's side, are reflective of "real" world desires and needs...i struggle with this balance personnally as well as my opinion toward sociology... tipping the scales in maryland, morten ender From socgrad-relay@ucsd.edu Fri Sep 24 11:55:47 1993 sendmail 5.67/UCSD-2.2-sun Fri, 24 Sep 93 11:51:51 -0700 for slincoln@weber.ucsd.edu Fri, 24 Sep 93 11:48:35 -0700 for /usr/mail/admin-checkandsend.sh socgrad via Charon-4.0-VROOM with IPX id 100.930924144700.416; 24 Sep 93 14:47:12 +500 To: socgrad@ucsd.edu From: LEE@cati.umd.edu Date: 24 Sep 93 14:43:41 EDT Subject: outliers My examples of earlier were just that, examples. Probability theory tells me that extreme cases can be expected here and there when taking samples. The sample of my experience is biased by my own perception, as this sort of observation problem in science tends to be, particularly the social sciences. Given my experiences before grad school and my perception, if my sample came from any other major research school probability theory also tells me that there would be a strong likelihood of finding at least one or two extreme cases in regard to the theory discussion. The heart of my comments was about PATTERNS at large. Therefore, understand that I support the integrity of the quality education at the U. of Maryland as well as at other graduate programs whether they be in large research institutions or not. There are indeed organizational, cultural, educational, and other social structural problems to be addressed. However, the EARNEST student can blossom here and elsewhere in interaction with committed teachers and researchers, frequently found in the same person. Lee From socgrad-relay@ucsd.edu Sun Sep 26 05:04:26 1993 sendmail 5.67/UCSD-2.2-sun Sun, 26 Sep 93 05:02:34 -0700 for slincoln@weber.ucsd.edu Sun, 26 Sep 93 05:01:05 -0700 for /usr/mail/admin-checkandsend.sh socgrad Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1993 01:57:55 -0700 From: Susan Herring Subject: Computer-mediated communication I think some of you have expressed interest in doing this kind of research... ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- Dear all, I would be grateful if you could re-post the following announcement to anyone you know who might be interested. Many thanks, Susan =====@@====@@====@@====@@===@@==@@===@@====@@====@@====@@===== CALL FOR CONTRIBUTORS: VOLUME ON COMPUTER-MEDIATED COMMUNICATION As an outgrowth of a panel presented at the 4th International Pragmatics Conference in Kobe, Japan on "Cultural and Linguistic Aspects of Computer-Mediated Communication", a volume is being prepared for publication in the _Pragmatics and Beyond_ series by John Benjamins Publishing Company. The goal of the volume is to bring together the best in current research on CMC as a social, cultural and linguistic phenomenon. Contributions should be empirically-oriented (that is, based on observation of actual CMC) and focused primarily on language and communication (rather than on technological aspects or secondary applications of the medium). A partial list of suggested topics is included below: - the linguistic description of CMC -- spoken-like? written-like? effects on grammar, orthographic and graphic representation, discourse, register, style - CMC genres -- e-mail, bulletin boards (BBS), discussion lists, interactive relay chat (IRC), 'talk' modes, multi-user dungeons (MUDs), etc. - CMC and social interaction -- dynamics of on-line communities, politeness/rudeness, humor, harassment, computer sex - CMC use by dominant and non-dominant groups -- gender, ethnicity, status, special interests - CMC in countries outside the U.S.; cross-cultural CMC - CMC in institutional settings -- business, government, education - children's CMC Papers surveying a topic or reporting on a large-scale ongoing project are also welcome. -------------------------------------------------------------- To be considered for inclusion in the volume, prospective authors should submit to the volume editor the following: 1) A 300-500 word abstract clearly outlining the problem, data, methodology, and conclusions of the research to be reported on in the paper, and 2) A short biographical statement (no longer than 300 words) indicating previous CMC research and/or relevant experience. (An abridged curriculum vita may be substituted for the biographical statement.) Submissions can be sent via e-mail, snail-mail or fax to the volume editor, Susan Herring, at the address below: Susan Herring Program in Linguistics University of Texas Arlington, TX 76019 USA fax: (817) 273-2731 e-mail: susan@utafll.uta.edu The deadline for receipt of abstracts and biographical statements is November 1, 1993. However, earlier submissions are welcomed. After the abstracts have been reviewed, the author of each abstract selected will be issued an invitation to contribute a full-length article to the volume, along with a set of guidelines for its preparation. The tentative deadline for the receipt of completed camera-ready manuscripts will be February 1, 1994, with an anticipated publication date early in 1995. Feel free to address any questions, comments, or suggestions to Susan Herring (susan@utafll.uta.edu). =====@@====@@====@@====@@===@@==@@===@@====@@====@@====@@=====  Computer-mediated communication From socgrad-relay@ucsd.edu Sun Sep 26 09:02:37 1993 sendmail 5.67/UCSD-2.2-sun Sun, 26 Sep 93 09:00:42 -0700 for slincoln@weber.ucsd.edu Sun, 26 Sep 93 08:59:02 -0700 for /usr/mail/admin-checkandsend.sh socgrad Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1993 09:00:18 EDT From: rwilkes@dhvx20.csudh.edu To: socgrad@ucsd.edu Subject: request for help I am a graduate student in Sociology at California State University Dominguez Hills. I am begining work on my masters thesis and am interested in the social/political opinions of Vietnam era veterans. I am working with an integrated data set of the GSS which has data from all surveys from 1972 to 1991 but would like to have other relevant data sets to work with. I would also be interested in any publications that deal with this subject and would be especially interested in papers/studies which deal with alienation or political efficacy as respects these veterans. My internet address is rwilkes@dhvx20.csudh.edu. Robin Wilkes Cal. State Dominguez Hills From socgrad-relay@ucsd.edu Mon Sep 27 14:29:43 1993 sendmail 5.67/UCSD-2.2-sun Mon, 27 Sep 93 14:22:57 -0700 for slincoln@weber.ucsd.edu Mon, 27 Sep 93 14:16:45 -0700 for /usr/mail/admin-checkandsend.sh socgrad Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1993 17:19:50 -0400 (EDT) From: JOYCEKG@bcvax1.bc.edu Subject: inclusive syllabi To: socgrad@ucsd.edu hello. i am a graduate student in boston. i am trying to put together a syllabus for an intro to soc undergrad course and am having trouble coming up with texts (films, videos, journal articles, books) that aren't written by white academics. I am interested in texts that tell complicated stories i.e. ones that look at differences within groups. Any thoughts?? please send any ideas to: joycekg@bcvms.bc.edu Thanks. From socgrad-relay@ucsd.edu Mon Sep 27 17:51:14 1993 sendmail 5.67/UCSD-2.2-sun Mon, 27 Sep 93 17:44:49 -0700 for slincoln@weber.ucsd.edu sendmail 5.67/UCSD-2.2-sun Mon, 27 Sep 93 17:39:22 -0700 for /usr/mail/admin-checkandsend.sh socgrad Tue, 28 Sep 93 00:39:22 GMT Date: Mon, 27 Sep 93 20:20:23 EST From: JEPSTEIN@KENTVM.BitNet Subject: Curiouser and Curiouser To: socgrad@ucsd.BitNet So why is it that I still get random socgrad messages a week after i unsubscribed? Listserv@UCSD never heard of me. I'm recieving random sociobabble messages from cyberspace. There must be an echo there must be an echo Linda Andes is the punk rock goddess of sociology. Remember that! From socgrad-relay@ucsd.edu Mon Sep 27 19:49:08 1993 sendmail 5.67/UCSD-2.2-sun Mon, 27 Sep 93 19:43:50 -0700 for slincoln@weber.ucsd.edu Mon, 27 Sep 93 19:38:16 -0700 for /usr/mail/admin-checkandsend.sh socgrad Date: Mon, 27 Sep 93 22:33:15 EDT From: Joya Misra Organization: Emory University - Atlanta, Georgia, USA Subject: INCLUSIVE SYLLABI To: SOCGRAD@UCSD.EDU To Joyce and others interested in diverse syllabi: The ASA Teaching Resource Center publishes various syllabi sets.One ofmy favorites in the one edited by (I think) Andersen and Patricia Hill Collins, called _Race, Class, and Gender._ It offers a lot of interesting syllabi for courses like Intro and Social Problems as well as more advanced and/or specialized classes. In terms of books, a lot of people seem to be using the Jones' book _Labour of Love, Labour of Sorrow_ (or something along those lines) about African-American women since slavery in the U.S. Supposed to be great but I haven't seen it. Let me know if anyone needs an address/number for ASA Teaching Resources. My teaching material is in my office and I'm at home now. Best of luck Joyce! Joya SOCAK663@EMUVM1.BITNET OR SOCAK663@EMUVM1.CC.EMORY.EDU DEPT. OF SOCIOLOGY EMORY UNIVERSITY ATLANTA, GA 30322 From socgrad-relay@ucsd.edu Mon Sep 27 20:18:50 1993 sendmail 5.67/UCSD-2.2-sun Mon, 27 Sep 93 20:10:53 -0700 for slincoln@weber.ucsd.edu Mon, 27 Sep 93 20:05:26 -0700 for /usr/mail/admin-checkandsend.sh socgrad Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1993 22:57:55 -0400 (EST) From: Daniel Ryan Subject: It's like being catholic... To: socgrad%ucsd.Edu@minerva.cis.yale.edu On Mon, 27 Sep 1993 JEPSTEIN%KENTVM.bitnet@YaleVM.YCC.Yale.Edu wrote: > So why is it that I still get random socgrad messages > a week after i unsubscribed? Listserv@UCSD never heard of me. ...you can become a lapsed socgradder, but not an ex-socgradder. > I'm recieving random sociobabble messages from cyberspace. It's cheaper than a journal subscription... Cheers, Dan From socgrad-relay@ucsd.edu Tue Sep 28 14:38:02 1993 sendmail 5.67/UCSD-2.2-sun Tue, 28 Sep 93 14:31:32 -0700 for slincoln@weber.ucsd.edu Tue, 28 Sep 93 14:25:17 -0700 for /usr/mail/admin-checkandsend.sh socgrad Date: Tue, 28 Sep 93 17:20:31 EDT From: Joya Misra Organization: Emory University - Atlanta, Georgia, USA Subject: ASA SYLLABI SETS To: SOCGRAD@UCSD.EDU Well, I make a concerted effort not to post to the list EVERY day, but I've gotten so many individual notes asking about the ASA syallbi sets I thought I'd save time and post the info to the list. Alright, ASA Teaching Resources Center has a brochure listing all the many teaching resources they publish - syllabi sets, joke books, games to play, etc. You can get it, or a particular syllabi set like the Race, Class, and Gender one I mentioned yesterday or whatever your fancy is by calling: (202) 833-3410 or write: ASA Teaching Resources Center 1722 N Street NW Washington D.C. 20036 Another good resource is the journal _Teaching Sociology_ which can give you great ideas. Just leaf through it a bit. I love teaching. Joya SOCAK663@EMUVM1.BITNET OR SOCAK663@EMUVM1.CC.EMORY.EDU DEPT. OF SOCIOLOGY EMORY UNIVERSITY ATLANTA, GA 30322 From socgrad-relay@ucsd.edu Tue Sep 28 17:16:10 1993 sendmail 5.67/UCSD-2.2-sun Tue, 28 Sep 93 17:13:37 -0700 for slincoln@weber.ucsd.edu sendmail 5.67/UCSD-2.2-sun Tue, 28 Sep 93 17:10:16 -0700 for /usr/mail/admin-checkandsend.sh socgrad Wed, 29 Sep 93 00:10:15 GMT Date: Tue, 28 Sep 93 19:55:51 EST From: jIM Subject: WHITEHOUSE EMAIL ADDRESS To: SOCGRAD@UCSD.BitNet Does anyone out there have the bitnet address for the whitehouse listserver? if so please reply to me personally AMOHOLLA@KENTVM.KENT.EDU Thanks, Jim 5 From socgrad-relay@ucsd.edu Tue Sep 28 22:19:18 1993 sendmail 5.67/UCSD-2.2-sun Tue, 28 Sep 93 22:09:00 -0700 for slincoln@weber.ucsd.edu Tue, 28 Sep 93 22:03:30 -0700 for /usr/mail/admin-checkandsend.sh socgrad by weber.ucsd.edu (8.6.beta.12/UCSDGENERIC.4c) on ttyt6 Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1993 22:03:29 -0700 From: lmiller@weber.ucsd.edu (Laura Miller) To: socgrad@ucsd.edu Subject: white house Jim's request reminded me that this might be of interest to many people. ************************************************************************* ************************************************************************* > > SEND COMMENTS AND QUESTIONS REGARDING THIS INFORMATION TO > The White House at 75300.3115@COMPUSERVE.COM > (This information is posted for public education/information purposes. > It does not necessarily represent the views of The College.) > ======================================================================== > > WHITE HOUSE ELECTRONIC PUBLICATIONS AND PUBLIC ACCESS EMAIL > FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS > > Updated July 23, 1993 > > Table Of Contents > > I. Signing up for Daily Electronic Publications. > A. Widely Available Sources. > B. Notes on Widely Available Sources. > C. Direct Email Distribution > > II. Searching and Retrieving White House documents. > - WAIS > - GOPHER > - FedWorld BBS > > III. Sending Email to the White House. > - Internet Direct > - Forwarding From Other Networks > > > I. HOW DO I SIGN UP FOR ELECTRONIC PUBLICATIONS BY THE WHITE HOUSE? > > The White House Communications office is distributing press releases > over an experimental system developed during the campaign at the MIT > Artificial Intelligence Laboratory. > > You can obtain copies of all the press releases from a wide variety of > on-line services or discussion groups devoted to either national > politics in general or President Clinton in particular. These are > listed in sections I and II. > > Section Ic explains how you can sign up to receive press releases > directly from the experimental MIT system by using an automated email > server. The present system was not designed to handle high levels of > message traffic. A more powerful system will become available in due > course, and in the meantime, it would be appreciated if you used this > service sparingly. One appropriate current use is secondary > redistribution and archiving. If you use it, you will be carried > forward when the more powerful system that replaces it. > > > A. WIDELY AVAILABLE SOURCES > > > 1. On USENET/NETNEWS, electronic publications are found on a variety > of groups: > > Direct Distribution > > alt.politics.clinton > alt.politics.org.misc > alt.politics.reform > alt.politics.usa.misc > alt.news-media > alt.activism > talk.politics.misc > > Indirect Distribution > > misc.activism.progressive > cmu.soc.politics > assocs.clinton-gore-92 > > 2. On CompuServe: GO WHITEHOUSE > > 3. On America Online: keyword WHITEHOUSE or THE WHITEHOUSE or CLINTON > > 4. On The WELL: type whitehouse > > 5. On MCI: type VIEW WHITE HOUSE > > 6. On Fidonet: See Echomail WHITEHOUSE > > 7. On Peacenet or Econet: See pol.govinfo.usa. > > > B. NOTES ON WIDELY AVAILABLE SOURCES > > > 2. CompuServe's White House Forum (GO WHITEHOUSE) is devoted to > discussion of the Clinton administration's policies and > activities. The forum's library consists of news releases and > twice daily media briefings from the White House Office of > Media Affairs. CompuServe members can exchange information and > opinions with each other in the 17 sections in the forum's > message area. The message board spans a broad range of topics, > including international and United Nations activities, > defense, health care, the economy and the deficit, housing and > urban development, the environment, and education and national > service. > > 3. On America Online the posts are sent to the White House Forum, > located in the News & Finance department of the service and > accessible via keywords "white house" and "clinton." The > White House Forum on America Online contains the press > releases from the White House, divided into the categories > "Press Briefings," "Meetings & Speeches," "Foreign Policy," > "The Economy," "Technology," "Health Care," and > "Appointments." The area features a message board so you can > discuss the releases with other AOL members, and a searchable > database for easy retrieval of releases in the topic that > interests you. > > 4. MCI Mail users can access daily information on the administration's > programs provided by the White House through MCI Mail bulletin > boards. The available boards are: WHITE HOUSE ECONOMIC, WHITE > HOUSE FOREIGN, WHITE HOUSE SOCIAL, WHITE HOUSE SPEECHES and > WHITE HOUSE NEWS. A listing of these boards can also be > obtained by simply typing VIEW WHITE HOUSE at the COMMAND > prompt. > > > > C. DIRECT EMAIL DISTRIBUTION > > If you don't have access to the these accounts or if you would prefer > to receive the releases via email, then the next section details how > to sign up for this service. The server is not set up to answer > email letters, comments or requests for specific information. To > reach this MIT server, send email: > > To: Clinton-Info@Campaign92.Org > Subject: Help > > The server works by reading the subject line of the incoming message > and taking whatever action that line calls for. If you want to sign up > to automatically receive press releases, then your subject line would > begin with the word RECEIVE. You can then specify what kind of > information you are interested in receiving. The categories of > information are: > > ECONOMIC POLICY > Get releases related to the economy such as budget > news, technology policy review, etc. > > > FOREIGN POLICY > Get releases related to foreign policy such as > statements on Bosnian airdrop, Haitian refugee status, > etc. > > > SOCIAL POLICY > Get releases related to social issues like National > Service (Student Loan) program, abortion, welfare > reform, etc. > > SPEECHES > All speeches made by the President and important > speeches made by other Administration officials. > > NEWS > Transcripts of press conferences released by the White > House Communications office, as well as the > President's remarks in photo ops and other Q&A > sessions. > > ALL All of the above > > So, if you wanted to sign up to get releases related to the economy > your email message would look like this: > > To: Clinton-Info@Campaign92.Org > Subject: RECEIVE ECONOMY > > When you send a signup message to the clinton-info server, it sends > you back a status message letting you know what distribution streams > you are signed up for. If you ever want to check on what groups you > are signed up for send the following message: > > To: Clinton-Info@Campaign92.Org > Subject: STATUS > > You can stop receiving email releases by sending a REMOVE message to > the clinton-info server. The word REMOVE would be followed by whatever > distribution stream you wanted to drop. If you wanted to stop > receiving message about the ECONOMY then your mail would look like > this: > > To: Clinton-Info@Campaign92.Org Subject: REMOVE ECONOMY > > You could substitute SOCIAL, FOREIGN, SPEECHES, NEWS or ALL for > ECONOMY in the above message and you would be dropped from that > distribution list. If you send the subject line REMOVE ALL, then you > will be taken off the email distribution system all together and will > not receive further releases of any kind. > > You can also ask for help from the automated server. Send an email > query as follows: > > To: Clinton-Info@Campaign92.Org > Subject: HELP > > The server will respond by sending you a detailed form that will guide > you through the process of signing up for the various distribution > streams. As you will quickly discover, there is a automatic form > processing interface that parallel the quick and easy subject line > commands discussed here. More detailed help is available by sending > an email query as follows: > > To: Clinton-Info@Campaign92.Org > Subject: Please Help! > > Finally, if you want to search and retrieve documents, but you do not > have access to the retrieval methods discussed in section II, you can > do this via email through the MIT server. You can obtain the WAIS > query form by sending an email query as follows: > > To: Clinton-Info@Campaign92.Org > Subject: WAIS > > Once you have identified the documents that you want, be careful not > to request them all at once, because you may be sent a message > containing all the documents and this message may be too big for some > mail delivery systems between the email server and you. > > > > II. HOW DO I RETRIEVE WHITE HOUSE PUBLICATIONS FROM INTERNET ARCHIVES? > > Various sites are archiving the press releases distributed . What follows is an > incomplete list of some of the sites containing the documents that > have been released to date. This FAQ will be updated to reflect new > sites as they become known. > > SITE DIRECTORY > > 1. SUNSITE.UNC.EDU /HOME3/WAIS/WHITE-HOUSE-PAPERS > 2. FTP.CCO.CALTECH.EDU /PUB/BJMCCALL > 3. FTP MARISTB.MARIST.EDU > 4. CPSR.ORG /CPSR/CLINTON > 5. FedWorld BBS 703-321-8020 8-N-1 > > Notes: The following are notes on how to log in and get > information from the above sites. > > 1. Office FOR Information Technology at University of > North Carolina Maintains the full collection of White > House electronic release available for search with WAIS and > also accessible via Gopher and FTP. > 1.a WAIS > (:source > :version 3 > :database-name "/home3/wais/White-House-Papers" :ip- > address "152.2.22.81" > :ip-name "sunsite.unc.edu" > :tcp-port 210 > :cost 0.00 > :cost-unit :free > :maintainer "pjones@sunsite.unc.edu" > > :description "Server created with WAIS release 8 b5 on > Feb 27 15:16:16 1993 by pjones@sunsite.unc.edu These are the > White House Press Briefings and other postings dealing with > William Jefferson Clinton and Albert Gore as well as members > of the President's Cabinet and the first lady Hillary Rodham > Clinton, Chelsea, Socks and others in Washington DC. Dee Dee > Meyers and George Stephanopoulos. Other good words: > United States of America, Bill Al Tipper Democrats USA > US These files are also available via anonymous ftp > from sunsite.unc.edu The files of type filename used in > the index were: > /home3/ftp/pub/academic/political-science/whitehouse- > papers/1993 ") > > Folks without WAIS clients or gophers that act as WAIS > clients may telnet to sunsite.unc.edu and login as swais > to access this information via WAIS. > > 1.b GOPHER is a distributed menuing system for information access on the > Internet developed at the University of Minnesota. gophers are > client-server implementations and various gopher clients are > available for nearly any computing platform. You may now use > gopher clients to access the White House Papers and other > political information on SunSITE.unc.edu's new gopher server. > You may also add links from your local gopher server to > SunSITE for access to the White House Papers. > > For gopher server keepers and adventurous clients to access > SunSITE you need only know that we use the standard gopher > port 70 and that our internet address is SunSITE.unc.edu > (152.2.22.81). Point there and you'll see the references to > the Politics areas. > > For folks without gopher clients can telnet to sunsite.unc.edu > to try out gopher acess. You need to have access to internet > telnet and: > > telnet sunsite.unc.edu > login: gopher > > The rest is very straight forward. Browsing options end with a > directory mark (/), searching options end with an question mark (?). > There's plenty of on-line help available. > > 2. No special instructions. > > 3. The CLINTON@MARIST log files which contain all the official > administration releases distributed through the MIT servers > are available via anonymous FTP. These logs contain in > addition to the official releases, the posts that comprise the > ongoing discussion conducted by the list subscribers. > To obtain the logs: > FTP MARISTB.MARIST.EDU - the logs are in the CLINTON directory > and are named CLINTON LOG9208 thru CLINTON LOGyymm where yymm > stands for the current year and month. Problems should be > directed to my attention: URLS@MARISTC.BITNET or > URLS@VM.MARIST.EDU. > Posted by Lee Sakkas - owner, CLINTON@MARIST > > 4. Computer Professionals for Social Responsibility is > providing all Clinton documents on technology and privacy > at the CPSR Internet Library, available via > FTP/WAIS/Gopher at cpsr.org /cpsr/clinton (and in other > folders as relevant). For email access, send a message > with the word "help" at the 1st line of text to > listserv@cpsr.org. > > 5. The FedWorld Computer System, operated by the National Technical > Information Service, archives White House papers in a traditional BBS > type file library. Connect to FedWorld by calling (703) 321- 8020. > No parity, eight data bits and one stop bit (N-8-1). FedWorld > accommodates baud speeds of up to 9,600. White House papers are > located in the W-House library of files. To access this library from > the main FedWorld menu, enter . Files are named with the > first four digits being the release month and day (e.g. 0323XXX.txt). > Some standard abbreviations after the date include: > > rem - Remarks by the President > pc - Press Conference transcript > pr - Press Release > AM - AM Press Briefing > PM - PM Press Briefing > sch - The President's public schedule > spch- Text of major speeches. > > These files are saved in ASCII format. Files can be viewed online by > requesting to download a file and then selecting (L)ist as the > download protocol. This will display the file a screen at a time. > White House papers are kept in the above format for up to two months. > Papers more than two months old are compressed using Pkzip into a > single file that contains all of the files for that month (e.g. > 0193.zip contains all papers released during January 1993). In > addition to White Documents, FedWorld also provides a gateway to more > than 100 government funded BBSs and computer systems. > > > > III. HOW DO I SEND EMAIL TO THE WHITE HOUSE? > > We are pleased to introduce this new form of communication into the > White House for the first time in history. As we work to reinvent > government and streamline our processes, this electronic mail experiment > will help put us on the leading edge of progress. Please remember, > though, this is still very much an experiment. > > The White House email system is under construction. This is a new > project and suffers from all of the problems common to a startup > operation. The Communications office is currently working on defining > what this system will do, as well as trying to come up with equipment > and staffing to make sure that it works. > > Nobody wants this new venture to work more than the staff that has > devoted so many hours to getting it up and running. But much time and > effort will be required before the system is truly interactive. In the > mean time, they will need a little patience from the electronic > community. > > When you send to the White House you will receive an immediate > acknowledge that your message has been received. Email messages are > currently being printed out and responses are being sent out via US > Mail, so if you send a message to the White House, please include a US > Post office address for replies. > > You can send email to the following addresses: > > Internet Direct: President@WhiteHouse.GOV > Vice-President@WhiteHouse.GOV > > > Please send corrections, deletion and additions to this FAQ to: > > Updates@Campaign92.Org -- ******************************************************************************** * JON DARLING, Ph.D. -- Professor and Chair, Department of Sociology * * University of Pittsburgh at Johnstown Johnstown, PA 15904 * * 24-hour phone: (814) 269-2963 / 24-hour FAX: (814) 269-7255 (not private) * * Internet: JDA2@vms.cis.pitt.edu * ******************************************************************************** From socgrad-relay@ucsd.edu Wed Sep 29 10:35:07 1993 sendmail 5.67/UCSD-2.2-sun Wed, 29 Sep 93 10:32:01 -0700 for slincoln@weber.ucsd.edu Wed, 29 Sep 93 10:17:57 -0700 for /usr/mail/admin-checkandsend.sh socgrad Date: Wed, 29 Sep 93 13:09:42 EST From: paula Subject: gang data set To: socgrad@ucsd.edu I am trying to find a data set involving gang behavior and any other information regarding gangs. This is for work on my thesis. Anyone who has information or access to a data set, please respond it will be greatly appreciated. send information and response to: thank you. Paula From socgrad-relay@ucsd.edu Wed Sep 29 12:03:00 1993 sendmail 5.67/UCSD-2.2-sun Wed, 29 Sep 93 11:48:22 -0700 for slincoln@weber.ucsd.edu Wed, 29 Sep 93 11:40:05 -0700 for /usr/mail/admin-checkandsend.sh socgrad From: Dawn Owens-Nicholson Subject: Re: gang data set To: PDIGIORG@KENTVM.KENT.EDU (paula) Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1993 13:38:55 -0500 (CDT) Paula is looking for: >a data set involving gang behavior and any other >information regarding gangs. This is for work on my thesis. ICPSR (of which Kent State is a member) has a few gang-related datasets. I browsed quickly through the catalog and saw: Gang Involvement in "Rock" Cocaine Trafficking in Los Angeles, 1984-1985 by Malcolm W. Klein and Cheryl L. Maxson (ICPSR #9398) Police Response to Street Gang Violence in California: Improving the Investigative Process, 1985 by Malcolm W. Klein, Cheryl L. Maxson, and Margaret A. Gordon (ICPSR #8934) National Youth Gang Intervention and Suppression Survey, 1980-1987 by Irving A. Spergel and G. David Curry (ICPSR #9792) There may be other datasets as well. The contact person at Kent State is Laura Bartolo 672-3045. You should get in touch with her. Good Luck. -Dawn Owens-Nicholson From socgrad-relay@ucsd.edu Wed Sep 29 17:53:46 1993 sendmail 5.67/UCSD-2.2-sun Wed, 29 Sep 93 17:48:13 -0700 for slincoln@weber.ucsd.edu Wed, 29 Sep 93 17:42:31 -0700 for /usr/mail/admin-checkandsend.sh socgrad Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1993 18:43:09 -0600 (MDT) From: "Joe Hopper, University of Colorado" Subject: Borges To: socgrad@ucsd.edu In Simulations, Baudrillard opens with a reference to one of Borges' stories about cartographers who make a map so increasingly accurate that it becomes the territory itself. But his footnote is to another one of his own works, rather than to the Borges story he is talking about. Does anybody know this story -- can anyone give me a citation? Joe. From socgrad-relay@ucsd.edu Thu Sep 30 09:20:44 1993 sendmail 5.67/UCSD-2.2-sun Thu, 30 Sep 93 09:14:15 -0700 for slincoln@weber.ucsd.edu Thu, 30 Sep 93 09:12:13 -0700 for /usr/mail/admin-checkandsend.sh socgrad Subject: subscribe To: socgrad@ucsd.edu Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1993 11:12:09 -0500 (CDT) From: "Laura L. Fertwagner" Please add me to your list. From socgrad-relay@ucsd.edu Thu Sep 30 21:30:56 1993 sendmail 5.67/UCSD-2.2-sun Thu, 30 Sep 93 21:29:17 -0700 for slincoln@weber.ucsd.edu Thu, 30 Sep 93 21:27:17 -0700 for /usr/mail/admin-checkandsend.sh socgrad Date: Thu, 30 Sep 93 23:09:41 -0500 From: halebsky@ssc.wisc.edu To: "socgrad@ucsd.edu"@ssc.wisc.edu Subject: Inclusive Syllabi Joyce, in Boston, writes that she is "having difficulty coming up with texts . . . that aren't written by white academics." Are we to understand by this that only texts by non-white non-academics are deemed suitable for an introductory sociology course? She also writes that she is "interested in texts that tell complicated stories, i.e. ones that look at differences within groups." I would be interested to know what exactly is meant by this. Steve Halebsky University of Wisconsin - Madison INTERNET: halebsky@ssc.wisc.edu BITNET: halebsky@wiscssc From socgrad-relay@ucsd.edu Thu Sep 30 15:17:00 1993 sendmail 5.67/UCSD-2.2-sun Thu, 30 Sep 93 15:13:59 -0700 for slincoln@weber.ucsd.edu sendmail 5.67/UCSD-2.2-sun Thu, 30 Sep 93 15:11:31 -0700 for /usr/mail/admin-checkandsend.sh socgrad Thu, 30 Sep 93 22:11:31 GMT Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1993 16:49:09 CDT From: "NEICP (U of I at Chicago) (312) 996-1801" To: , , , , , , , , , Subject: Research Fellowship Opportunities UNIVERSITY OF ILLINOIS AT CHICAGO ANNOUNCES GRANTS R. Stephen Warner, project director and professor of sociology at UIC, has received an award of $214,000 from The Pew Charitable Trusts to fund the New Ethnic and Immigrant Congregations Project, a training and fellowship program promoting field research with new ethnic and immigrant congregations. The Pew grant approximately matches one of $220,354 made in July, 1993, by Lilly Endowment Inc. Together, the two grants will make it possible for NEICP to provide intensive training in field research methods and one year of fellowship support for up to a dozen trainees. Warner said that fellowship opportunities are open to doctoral candidates and recent postdoctorates in all fields of social science and humanities, including anthropology and religious studies. He added that applications are particularly encouraged from individuals in Latino/a Studies and Asian Studies. It is the goal of the project, he said, to portray the increasing diversity of communal religious life in the U.S., for example Hispanic and Korean churches, Islamic centers and mosques, and Buddhist and Hindu temples. But he noted that the final mix of congregations the project will study depends on the quality and variety of proposals they receive. "It is our intention," he concluded, "to recruit fellows from the widest possible pool of applicants nationwide." The New Ethnic and Immigrant Congregations Project will fund: * a six-week ethnographic training institute in Chicago for all participants (June 4 to July 17, 1994); * ten-month research fellowships ($12,000 dissertation fellowships, $6,000 post-doctoral fellowships) in 1994-95; * a one-week writing workshop for all participants (summer 1995); and * a national conference to present research results (spring 1996). Information packets and application forms for fellowships will be available from the NEICP office at the address listed below between now and December 1, 1993. Completed applications must be postmarked no later than January 2, 1994. The New Ethnic and Immigrant Congregations Project is administered by the Office of Social Science Research at the University of Illinois at Chicago. New Ethnic and Immigrant Congregations Project Office of Social Science Research (M/C 307) University of Illinois at Chicago 1007 West Harrison Street Chicago, Illinois 60607-7136 BITNET: u61477@uicvm Internet: u61477@uicvm.cc.uic.edu (312) 996-1801 FAX (312) 996-9484