From socgrad-relay@UCSD.EDU Fri Jul 1 06:21:01 1994 sendmail 8.6.9/UCSD-2.2-sun Fri, 1 Jul 1994 06:19:29 -0700 for socgrad-list Fri, 1 Jul 1994 06:19:27 -0700 for Date: Fri, 1 Jul 1994 07:19:24 -0600 (MDT) From: FULLER ABIGAIL ANNE To: socgrad@UCSD.EDU unsub From socgrad-relay@UCSD.EDU Fri Jul 1 08:54:11 1994 sendmail 8.6.9/UCSD-2.2-sun Fri, 1 Jul 1994 08:50:16 -0700 for socgrad-list Fri, 1 Jul 1994 08:50:09 -0700 for (5.65+UW94.4/UW-NDC Revision: 2.30 ) id AA06938; Date: Fri, 1 Jul 1994 08:49:31 -0700 (PDT) From: Robert Duniway Subject: Re: violence (VERY LONG) To: Pamela Paxton On Thu, 30 Jun 1994, Pamela Paxton wrote: > > I think we should consider the questions that rebel raises. > The first question is, what kind of people are in abusive relationships? > Before moving on, we have to address that issue - and we have - we > have noted that many more women are in abusive domestic situations > than men. We can not answer the rest of the questions without taking > that into consideration, however. Careful. This question could easily lead to sampling on the dependent variable. > > Also, although rebel's questions are interesting, I would like to add > that the crucial question for me (and why I brought up differential > economic and childcare constraints originally) is, why do we see > differences in the types of people that are in abusive relationships? You're assuming that we do. Since this question involves finding out about behavior patterns that the participant would probably be interested in concealing it would be difficult to have much confidence in typical sources of data such as police reports, shelter requests, self-report surveys. I'm not saying demographic differences don't exist, only questioning how clear a picture of the population of interest we can actually obtain. > It is when we begin to answer that question that we can split into > more psychological or structural explantions. Obviously, from my posts, > I prefer structural answers there. The alternative of comparing people of comparable backgrounds who remain in or leave abusive relationships does not begin with your question, and is still a valid research problem. > > I also find it interesting how (in general) we have moved from the more > specific discussion of domestic violence against women to an abstract > discussion of "abusive situations." Its much easier that way. > One of the reasons that we may have abstracted to a more general > *people* level is that our explanations have turned more psychological. Howie Becker would probably disagree with you. By looking for basic patterns that occur in a variety of situations we develop a useful collection of general explanations which can help us more rapidly come to understand new but similar situations in the future. One level of studying violence against women would be to say that the interaction is unique to situations where the victim is a woman and the villian is a man. A different level is to consider violence against women to be exactly the same as any other type of violence. There are costs and benefits to both approaches, but I doubt that the people who want to discuss abusive relationships are making that move simply because we have turned psychological. > We are indicating that there may be some types of people that are > just more resilient, or who overcame early neuroses and don't stay in > abusive relationships. Those explanations are much easier to swallow > if we forget for the moment that more women are in those types of > relationships. Otherwise, it starts to look as though we are saying > women are less resilient etc. than men. I don't follow this argument. Could you explain? > And it ends up looking like > becoming a 'natural' difference if we neglect to also include > structural explanations. > > Thats why I continue to argue that we can not overlook structural > factors here. Although within abusive relationships, there may be > more or less benefit from a general resiliance or any other > psychological explanation, we still need to consider how people > are differentially placed in abusive relationships in the first place. One of the reasons sociological explanations are often criticized is the tendency to assume a passive individual in the face of a deterministic social structure. People get into abusive relationships. Social structures may make it more or less likely that members of certain groups will get into abusive relationships, but the fact that many members of the group you have identified (economically disadvantaged women) do not suggests that structure is not completely deterministic. Not everything that happens to a woman happens to her because she is a woman. Some things happen because she is a particular woman, with particular traits, in a particular environment. Those of us who made the teeth grinding comments were reacting to this type of sweeping gender per se as explanatory variable argument. > I ALSO still argue that we need to consider the structural factors > that KEEP them there (gendered economic constraints, etc.) > If we keep the gender aspect in, we can also begin to look at what > types of structures might decrease or increase resiliance in males, > females, or both. For example, differential socialization might > affect females resiliance in a different way then males. It might > make them less resiliant. So, even if we want to stay with the more > psychological resiliant explanations, I still argue that we should > consider the structural factors that influence them. I agree that it would be foolish to ignore structural factors. It is equally foolish to believe that structural factors alone are going to explain violence against women. Both research questions are important, and they are complimentary, not competative. > > An example of how structure is (at least) intertwined with psychology, > is to consider rebel's "example" of resiliance. She offers us a > resiliant person as someone who can tell their abusive spouse to > f*** off and leave the house/marriage/relationship/etc. What type > of person is most likely to BE ABLE to make a statement like that? > OR, what type of person faces more constraints in making a statement > like that? Obviously (at least I think it is) structural factors that > affect the different genders (not to mention races, etc.) differently > are going to play a role in who has a harder time being resilient. > Or, to put it another way, who would have to be EXTRA-resilient > to escape? Resiliance involves more than just saying F*** off. It > also involves then being able to support yourself alone, possiblily > support children as well etc. These are areas where we see structural > gender differences. I liked that example. Clearly there are differences in the options available to people in different social positions. Just as clearly, people in equivalent positions often make very different decisions. The world is too complex to explain either with some personality trait inventory or with the sociologists favorite variables or race, class and sex. Bob Duniwy, University of Washington From socgrad-relay@UCSD.EDU Fri Jul 1 10:08:55 1994 sendmail 8.6.9/UCSD-2.2-sun Fri, 1 Jul 1994 10:07:03 -0700 for socgrad-list Fri, 1 Jul 1994 10:06:59 -0700 for Date: Fri, 1 Jul 94 12:06:10 CDT From: penny ann edgell becker To: socgrad@UCSD.EDU Subject: students and the clinton health care plan I'm forwarding this from a friend -- hope people find it useful. Penny Becker pab2@midway.uchicago.edu 28-Jun-94 17:21:15-GMT,28497;000000000001 Date: Tue, 28 Jun 1994 10:21:03 -0700 (PDT) From: Anne Mini Subject: Health Reform Grass Roots Kit URGENT!! IMPORTANT!!! READ & USE!! (fwd) To: pab2@midway.uchicago.edu FYI -- I find this pretty appalling. Feel free to disseminate... --Anne ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 22 Jun 1994 13:45:40 -0700 (PDT) From: Thomas Birkland To: Anne Mini Subject: Health Reform Grass Roots Kit URGENT!! IMPORTANT!!! READ & USE!! (fwd) Per yr request Tom ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 7 Jun 1994 21:22:05 -0400 From: Tony Rosati Subject: Health Reform Grass Roots Kit URGENT!! IMPORTANT!!! READ & USE!! HEALTH CARE REFORM IS A GRADUATE/PROFESSIONAL STUDENT ISSUE The National Association of Graduate-Professional Students (NAGPS) is the only national organization dedicated to representing the interests and concerns of postbaccalaureate students. NAGPS currently has 118 member graduate/professional student organizations, representing approximately 400,000 students nationwide. Since its inception, NAGPS has worked to ensure that the health care needs of graduate and professional-degree students are met. NAGPS has undertaken its Student Grassroots Organizing Project to encourage students to become involved in the fight for a better, more equitable health care system for graduate/professional students. The Grassroots Organizing Kit is intended to be the cornerstone of this project. The kit was designed by the NAGPS Task Force on Health Care Reform to help interested individuals and organizations become organized advocates on behalf of graduate/professional student health care. It is envisioned to become a pratical tool to be used by members of NAGPS' grassroots network in their work on this issue, but is equally useful for groups not involved with the formal network who want to get involved in some other way. Our thanks to the many students who contributed their opinions, stories and experiences in regard to health care coverage or the lack of it at their schools. CONTENTS OF GRASSROOTS ORGANIZING KIT: 1) Cover letter with list of contents 2) NAGPS press release on health care reform 3) Talking points / fact sheet on health care reform 4) List of target House and Senate members on Congressional committees considering health care reform 5) Sample letter to Congress 6) Sample petition 7) Copy of health care reform bill passed at 1994 NAGPS National Conference in Newark, New Jersey We hope that this kit will inspire and assist you as you work to ensure that graduate/professional students' voices are heard loud and clear across the country, from the halls of state legislatures to the atrium of the Capitol, letting the policymakers, university administrations, the media, and the general public know about our issues in health care reform! Please contact us if you plan on becoming active in any way in the health care reform debate. Gina Pearson Mitzi Forbes, Chair Legislative & Employment Concerns Coord. NAGPS Health Reform Task Force 1428 Rear G Street, SE University of Arizona Washington, DC 20003 College of Nursing (202)547-4920 Box 167 Tuscon, AZ 85721 (602)621-2782 VP1625A@AMERICAN.EDU MFORBES@RN1.NURSING.ARIZONA.EDU ============================================================================= MEDIA RELEASE CONTACT: For immediate release: Gina Pearson June 6, 1994 (202)547-4920 1.6 MILLION STUDENTS IGNORED IN HEALTH CARE REFORM National graduate-professional student association launches its grassroots campaign on health care reform (Wilmette, IL) "The special needs and concerns of the over 1.6 million full and part-time graduate and professional-degree students in the United States are being ignored in the current debate over health care reform," according to Mitzi Forbes, PhD candidate in nursing at the University of Arizona-Tuscon and chair of the NAGPS Task Force on Health Care Reform. Most of the major health reform legislation introduced in Congress assumes that students are single and covered under their parents' health insurance plans. In reality, with a mean age of 31 years, few graduate/professsional students qualify for coverage under their parents' insurance plans, and many often have families of their own to care for. Graduate/professional students want reforms that will guarantee universal access that is not linked to employment, income, dependent, or health status. In response to these oversights, the National Association of Graduate- Professional Students (NAGPS) has launched a grassroots campaign to make elected officials, the media, and the general public aware of our special concerns in health care reform. NAGPS is the only national organization dedicated to promoting the interests of graduate/professional students. NAGPS currently has 118 member graduate/professional student organizations, representing more than 400,000 students nationwide. NAGPS estimates that 22% of graduate/professional students are uninsured. One third of graduate and professional students have dependents, and approximately 3/4 of these dependents are uninsured. Research has shown a direct correlation between poverty and ill health. In part a result of substantially decreased levels of federal and institutional support for postbaccalaureate education, graduate/professional students typically live at or below the poverty level. Yet, because of their student status, they do not qualify for Medicaid, the joint state and federal program which provides health care for the poor. Even those students who work as teaching and research assistants receive little help from their universities. Graduate students teach classes, run research labs for their professors, and perform a significant portion of the research that is published under the name of universities, all at a rate of pay that is decidedly in favor of the university. However only a few universities offer their graduate student employees health care benefits. Students are also concerned about the potential for health care reform to increase the costs of their coverage, which currently averages $650 a year for a single student with no dependents. NAGPS estimates that the average annual premium for an individual under the Clinton Health Security Act will be between $1800-$2500, representing a 300% increase in health insurance premium costs. Barring significant subsidies or employer mandates, graduate assistants under the Clinton plan may be forced to spend one-half to one- fifth of their annual living stipends for health insurance premiums, which would effectively prevent most promising young scholars from obtaining a graduate degree. Many university-based health plans exclude graduate/professional students altogether, or cut off their benefits after a set number of years. After four years of enrollment, for example, graduate students at Princeton University lose their university-paid health insurance coverage. For one year they are able to pay approximately $800 to continue coverage, after which they areno longer eligible to purchase the insurance or use the student health center. Studies show that in disciplines such as anthropology, however, it can take an average of nine years to complete a PhD. Even in cases where access to health care coverage is provided, the plans available to graduate/professional students usually provide minimal and incomplete coverage. Typical exclusions under these policies include routine physical exams, preventative medicines or vaccines, contraception, and optical and dental care. Coverage of dependents is also excluded from most of these policies, or is prohibitively expensive if available. Graduate and professional-degree students also have specific health care needs that differ from the rest of the population. Besides pursuing demanding degree programs, many students have the added stress of teaching, research, and other part- time jobs, as they struggle both to support themselves and to meet the rising costs of postbaccalaureate education. In addition, many students with spouses and/or dependents have the difficult task of balancing graduate study and family life. All of these stresses put students' health at risk. # # # ============================================================================= HEALTH CARE REFORM IS A STUDENT ISSUE: HEALTH CARE "FACTS OF LIFE" FOR GRADUATE/PROFESSIONAL STUDENTS These talking points have been developed for you to use as a guide during your efforts to communicate the pressing health care concerns of graduate and professional students to elected officials, university administrators, the media, and the general public. They illustrate some of the ways in which graduate/professional students are being short-changed by the current health care system. * There are currently 1.6 million graduate and 240,000 professional, full and part-time students in the United States. Because health care in the United States is tied almost exclusively to full-time employment, these students often lack insurance or are underinsured. In light of this situation, graduate/professional students tend to delay or forgo necessary medical attention because they cannot afford it. NAGPS estimates that 22% of graduate/professional students are uninsured. One third of graduate/professional students have dependents and approximately 3/4 of those are uninsured. * Research has shown a direct correlation between poverty and ill health. Most graduate/professional students live at or below poverty-level wages. Despite their low economic status, these students do not qualify for Medicaid, the joint state/federal program which is supposed to provide health protection for the poor. * Many university-based health plans exclude graduate/professional students altogether, or cut off their benefits after a set number of years. After four years of enrollment, graduate students at Princeton University, for example, lose their university-paid health insurance coverage. For one year they are able to pay approximately $800 to continue coverage, after which they are no longer eligible to purchase the insurance or use the student health center. Studies show that in disciplines such as anthropology, however, it can take an average of nine years to complete a PhD. * The majority of graduate students working as teaching and research assistants do not receive free or subsidized health care coverage as part of their benefits package, even though the majority of these students work at least 20 hours a week. At the University of Arizona, only 5% of graduate assistants have health benefits provided by their department or grant. * The average cost of annual health insurance premiums for graduate and professional students is $650. With annual fellowship and assistantship stipends averaging at or below the official poverty- level, this represents a disproportionate percentage of their yearly income. The majority of graduate/professional students do not even receive fellowships or assistantships, however, and must cover living expenses (including health insurance) through part-time employment and student loans. * Most of the major health reform legislation introduced in Congress assumes that students are single and covered under their parents' health insurance plans. In reality, with a mean age of 31 years, few graduate/professional students qualify for coverage under their parents' insurance plans. * Even in cases where access to health care coverage is provided, the plans available to graduate/professional students usually provide minimal and incomplete coverage. Typical exclusions under these policies include routine physical exams, preventative medicines or vaccines, contraception, and optical and dental care. Coverage of dependents is also excluded from most of these policies, or is prohibitively expensive if available. * In light of the decreasing federal and institutional support of graduate and professional students, financial assistance is the single most important factor in a student's being able to undertake and complete an advanced degree. Because most graduate/professional students are of necessity financially on their own and 1/3 have families to care for, this population of students requires as much assistance as possible. Free or subsidized health care would constitute an important step towards helping these students complete their degrees in a timely manner. * More and more nontraditional, older, and handicapped students are entering graduate and professional school. As nondiscriminitory institutions, universities should make the opportunities of these students to succeed equal to those of the traditional student. In order to achieve this, comprehensive and affordable health coverage is vital. * Working as teaching and research assistants, graduate students teach classes, run research labs for their professors, and perform a significant portion of the research that is published under the name of universities, all at a rate of pay that is decidedly in favor of the university. As essential contributors to the efficient operation of the universities in which we work and learn, graduate assistants should receive health care as part of their employment packages. As half-time employees, for example, we should receive funding for at least half of our health care coverage. * Mental health coverage is vital for graduate/professional students. Besides pursuing demanding degree programs, many students have the added stress of teaching, research, and other part-time employment, as they struggle to meet the rising costs of postbaccaulaureate education. In addition, many students with spouses and/or dependents have the oftentimes difficult task of balancing graduate study and family life. All of these stresses put our health at risk. ============================================================================= HEALTH CARE REFORM IS A STUDENT ISSUE! KEY CONGRESSIONAL AND ADMINISTRATION CONTACTS IN HEALTH REFORM Health care legislation will be considered by several committees in both the House and Senate. The following list represents five of the major committees that will be working on health reform issues, including committee members and phone numbers. All of these committees will be having hearings on different issues in reform at the national level. Look for your representative's name(s) on these lists to identify potential Congressional targets for letters or visits. The best way to stay informed about the latest develop- ments is to contact these committees directly, or to contact your representa- tive directly, either at their district or national office. SENATE: Finance Committee (202)224-4515(D)/224-5315(R) Daniel Moynihan (D-NY), Chair Bob Packwood (R-OR), Ranking Max Baucus (D-MT) Robert Dole (R-KS) David Boren (D-OK) William Roth (R-DE) Bill Bradley (D-NJ) John Danforth (R-MO) George Mitchell (D-ME) John Chafee (R-RI) David Pryor (D-AR) David Durenberger (R-MN) Donald Riegle (D-MI) Charles Grassley (R-IA) John Rockefeller (D-WV) Orrin Hatch (R-UT) Thomas Daschle (D-SD) Malcolm Wallop (R-WY) John Breaux (D-LA) Kent Conrad (D-ND) Labor and Human Resources Committee (202)224-5275(D)/224-6770(R) Edward Kennedy (D-MA), Chair Nancy Kassebaum (R-KS), Ranking Claiborne Pell (D-RI) James Jeffords (R-VT) Howard Metzenbaum (D-OH) Dan Coats (R-IN) Christopher Dodd (D-CT) Judd Gregg (R-NH) Paul Simon (D-IL) Strom Thurmond (R-SC) Tom Harkin (D-IA) Orrin Hatch (R-UT) Barbara Mikulski (D-MD) Dave Durenberger (R-MN) Jeff Bingaman (D-NM) Paul Wellstone (D-MN) Harris Wofford (D-PA) HOUSE: Ways and Means Committee (202)225-3625(D)/225-4021(R) Dan Rostenkowski (D-IL) Bill Archer (R-TX), Ranking Ways and Means Health Subcommittee (202)225-7785 Pete Stark (D-CA), Chair Bill Thomas (R-CA) Sander Levin (D-MI) Nancy Johnson (R-CT) Benjamin Cardin (D-MD) Fred Grandy (R-IA) Michael Andrews (D-TX) Jim McCrery (R-LA) Jim McCermott (D-WA) Gerald Kleczka (D-WI) John Lewis (D-GA) Education and Labor Committee (202)225-4527(D)/225-3725(R) William Ford (D-MI), Chair Bill Goodling (R-PA), Ranking Ed and Labor Labor-Management Relations Subcommittee (202)225-5768 Pat Williams (D-MT), Chair Marge Roukema (R-NJ) William Clay (D-MO), VChair Steve Gunderson (D-WI) Dale Kildee (D-MI) Richard Armey (R-TX) George Miller (D-CA) Bill Barrett (R-NE) Major Owens (D-NY) John Boehner (R-OH) Matthew Martinez (D-CA) Harris Fawell (R-IL) Donald Payne (D-NJ) Cass Ballenger (R-NC) Jolene Unsoeld (D-WA) Peter Hoekstra (R-MI) Patsy Mink (D-HI) Howard McKeon (R-CA) Ron Klink (D-PA) Austin Murphy (D-PA) Eliot Engel (D-NY) Xavier Becerra (D-CA) Gene Green (D-TX) Lynne Woolsey (D-CA) Carlos Romero-Barcelo (D-PR) Energy and Commerce Committee (202)225-2927(D)225-3641(R) John Dingell (D-MI), Chair Carlos Moorhead (R-CA), Ranking ============================================================================== HEALTH CARE REFORM IS A STUDENT ISSUE! SAMPLE LETTER _____________________________________________________________________________ This sample letter is intended for you to use as a guide and should be adapted to fit your own personal and campus situation. Students should write letters to all of their representatives on the five major House and Senate committees handling health care reform. If you are a GSA president or officer and speak for a larger group of students, please indicate so in your letter. _____________________________________________________________________________ (your name) (address) (city, state, zip) The Honorable (name of Senator, Representative) U.S. Senate / U.S. House of Representatives Washington, DC 20510 (Senate) 20515 (House) Dear Senator / Representative__________________________, I am a student at (your institution) and a registered voter in (your state). I am active with (your graduate student government organization) and the National Association of Graduate-Professional Students (NAGPS). I am concerned that the special needs and concerns of the nation's over 1.6 million full and part-time graduate and professional-degree students are being ignored in the current debate over health care reform. Most of the major health reform legislation that has been introduced in Congress assumes that students are single and covered under their parents' health insurance plans. In reality, with a mean age of 31 years, few graduate/professional students qualify for coverage under their parents' insurance plans, and many often have families of their own to care for. NAGPS estimates that 22% of graduate/professional students are uninsured. One third of graduate/professional students have dependents and approximately 3/4 of these dependents are uninsured. Graduate/professional students typically obtain health coverage on their own either through a university- based plan or through an independent policy. Many university-based health plans, however, exclude graduate/professional students from eligibility. Even those students who work as teaching and research assistants receive little help from their universities. Graduate students teach classes, run research labs for their professors, and perform a significant portion of the research that is published under the name of universities, all at a rate of pay that is decidedly in favor of the university. However only a few universties offer their graduate student employees health care benefits. At (your institution) only X% of graduate assistants have health benefits provided by their department or grant. In cases where access to health care coverage is provided, the plans available to graduate/professional students usually provide minimal and incomplete coverage. Typical exclusions under these policies include routine physical exams, preventative medicines or vaccines, contraception, and optical and dental care. Coverage of dependents is also excluded from most of these policies, or is prohibitively expensive if available. Graduate and professional-degree students also have specific health care needs that differ from the rest of the population. Besides pursuing demanding degree programs, many students have the added stress of teaching, research, and other part-time jobs, as they struggle both to support them- selves and to meet the rising costs of postbaccalaureate education. In addition, many students with spouses and/or dependents have the difficult task of balancing graduate study and family life. All of these stresses put students' health at risk. (If possible, talk about the experiences you and/or your fellow students have had with the health care system at your institution, or offer your personal opinions to support your position. Member of Congress and their staff are more likely to read and be concerned about these real-life experiences.) Students are also concerned about the potential for health care reform to increase the costs of their coverage, which currently averages $650 a year for a single student with no dependents. NAGPS estimates that the average annual premium for an individual under the Clinton Health Security Act will be between $1800 and $2500, representing a 300% increase in health insurance premium costs. Without significant subsidies or employer mandates, graduate assistants under the Clinton plan may be forced to spend one-half to one- fifth of their annual living stipends for health insurance premiums, which would effectively prevent most promising young scholars from obtaining a graduate degree. For the above reasons, graduate/professional students want affordable reforms that will guarantee universal access that is not linked to employment, income, dependent or health status, and that will provide students with comprehensive health care benefits such as contraception and mental health services. I urge you not to ignore students' needs when (Member's committee) considers health care reform. Sincerely, (your name) ============================================================================= HEALTH CARE REFORM IS A GRADUATE/PROFESSIONAL STUDENT ISSUE SAMPLE PETITION As a graduate or professional-degree student at (your institution) and a registered voter in (your state), I am concerned that the special needs and concerns of the nation's over 1.6 million full and part-time graduate and professional-degree students are being ignored in the current debate over health care reform. Approximately 22% of graduate/professional students are uninsured. One third of graduate/professional students have dependents, and 3/4 of these dependents are uninsured. Graduate/professional students want affordable reforms that will guarantee universal access that is not linked to employ- ment, income, dependent or health status, and that will provide students with comprehesive health care benefits. I urge you not to overlook students' needs and concerns when you consider health care reform. NAME MAJOR ADDRESS AND PHONE NUMBER ============================================================================= NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF GRADUATE-PROFESSIONAL STUDENTS STATEMENT ON HEALTH CARE REFORM WHEREAS health care reform currently is a major federal legislative agenda item; and WHEREAS the various federal legislative proposals including the Clinton administration's Health Security Plan have only considered the position of single, dependent college students in formulating their proposals; and WHEREAS many postsecondary students are graduate students or independent undergraduate students not covered under their parents' health insurance policies; and WHEREAS many of these students also support dependents; and WHEREAS many of the students are employed by their colleges and universities to provide teaching, research, and/or administrative support; and WHEREAS income thus derived is essential to the support of these students and their dependents while they complete higher education degrees; and WHEREAS these student employees render invaluable service to their colleges and universities at or near poverty-level wages; and WHEREAS graduate and professional-degree students are essential to the social fabric, financial strength, quality of life, and competitive ability of this nation; and WHEREAS many educational institutions do not classify graduate employees as "real" employees, and do not provide employee benefits (including health benefits). THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED THAT: The National Association of Graduate-Professional Students urges the United States Government in all its branches, agencies, and legislation to consider independent students in planning health care reform. Specifically, the National Association of Graduate-Professional Students supports that: 1) All funding agencies require that the cost of health care benefits for graduate employees be included in budgets for grants and contracts awarded by government agencies. 2) Universal coverage be upheld for graduate and professional-degree students in health care reform. 3) All institutions of higher education be required to provide basic health benefits for all graduate employees under any health reform proposal. 4) Student risk pools be maintained as separate such that the risk pool be unified. 5) Student financial aid shall include subsidies for the increased cost (if any) of health care reform. 6) Student status shall not prevent eligibility for subsidized health care. Passed this 20th day of March, 1994 in general assembly in Newark, New Jersey. From socgrad-relay@UCSD.EDU Fri Jul 1 13:07:08 1994 sendmail 8.6.9/UCSD-2.2-sun Fri, 1 Jul 1994 13:05:15 -0700 for socgrad-list Fri, 1 Jul 1994 13:05:08 -0700 for Date: Fri, 1 Jul 1994 13:05:06 -0700 From: Laura Miller To: socgrad@UCSD.EDU Subject: how to unsubscribe Too much email in your life? If you want to unsubscribe from Socgrad, send a message to: listserv@ucsd.edu (if you're on Internet) or LISTSERV@UCSD.BITNET (if you're on BITNET) and in the body of your message, type: unsub socgrad Remember to send the message to listserv, NOT to Socgrad itself. Any problems or questions can be directed to lmiller@ucsd.edu From socgrad-relay@UCSD.EDU Sun Jul 3 05:21:57 1994 sendmail 8.6.9/UCSD-2.2-sun Sun, 3 Jul 1994 05:20:59 -0700 for socgrad-list Sun, 3 Jul 1994 05:20:58 -0700 for Date: Sun, 03 Jul 94 08:04:22 EDT From: "T R. Young" <34LPF6T@CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU> Organization: Central Michigan University Subject: The End of History on the 4th of July To: GRADUATE STUDENTS IN SOCIOLOGY #5 in a Series. The End of History. 99% of the species which have ever lived are extinct 95% of the societies to which people gave loyalty and life are gone 99% of the engineers who ever lived are alive today 95% of the Transnational Corporations which today dominate the New World order did not exist 50 years ago. Chaos/complexity theory tells us that stability in complex systems is rare and short lived...that the present does not determine the future and that changing mix of order and disorder are congenial to the survival of all life. Tomorrow, July 4th, most Americans will celebrate a secularized Drama of the Holy in which the God concept is replaced by the Nation concept. Yet nations as we know them have been around for but a brief 300 years or so. All this forces us to ask the interwoven question: What will be the social form to which people give loyalty and life in 50, 100, 200 years or so. Key to the answer of this question is, I think, the continuing globalization of communication, transport, science, industry, banking and commerce. As we follow the rise of empire and the spread of trade, we find a parallel trans- formation of the God concept and a widening, changing of the social units to which men and women give loyalty and upon which they base the core of their personal/self identity. Looking at the short term...25 or 50 years...the nation-state will probably be assimilated in socio-political blocs. Just as nation has been assimilating tribal identity, bloc forms will likely assimilate national identity. In this mini-lecture, I want to suggest some 10-12 blocs which may emerge and their implications for theology and religion. Part II to follow. From socgrad-relay@UCSD.EDU Sun Jul 3 09:46:15 1994 sendmail 8.6.9/UCSD-2.2-sun Sun, 3 Jul 1994 09:45:17 -0700 for socgrad-list Sun, 3 Jul 1994 09:45:15 -0700 for Date: Sun, 03 Jul 94 11:36:09 CDT From: KLOSKY@vm1.nodak.edu Organization: North Dakota Higher Education Computer Network Subject: Re: The End of History on the 4th of July To: "T R. Young" <34LPF6T@CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU>, GRADUATE STUDENTS IN SOCIOLOGY Question: Where is the line between sociology and philosophy? Where is the SCIENCE in your lecture? Or am I missing the point TR? I might be out in left field, smoking something, but these are the questions that come to me when I read your post. SKEE From socgrad-relay@UCSD.EDU Mon Jul 4 04:59:21 1994 sendmail 8.6.9/UCSD-2.2-sun Mon, 4 Jul 1994 04:57:54 -0700 for socgrad-list Mon, 4 Jul 1994 04:57:52 -0700 for Date: Mon, 04 Jul 94 07:25:44 EDT From: "T R. Young" <34LPF6T@CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU> Organization: Central Michigan University Subject: THE END OF HISTORY: PART II To: GRADUATE STUDENTS IN SOCIOLOGY CHAOS/COMPLEXITY THEORY TEACHES US THAT THE END OF HISTORY NEVER COMES AND THAT THE NEW FORMS REPLACE OLD FORMS IN NEVER ENDING PROCESSION; THAT QUAL- ITATIVE CHANGE TRUMPS QUANTITATIVE CHANGE. MODERN SOCIETIES ARE ONLY THAT: IN THE MODE FOR A TIME AND THEN CHANGE INTO SOMETHING ELSE...SOCIOLOGY IS LEFT TO ENQUIRE ABOUT WHEN AND WHY NATION-STATES REPLACE TRIBES; WHEN AND WHY NATION STATES ARE THEMSELVES DISPLACED. IN PART II, I WOULD LIKE TO OFFER SOME IDEAS ON THE NEXT QUALITATIVE CHANGE IN SOCIAL ORGANIZATION...AND IN THE SOCIAL IDENTITIES WHICH ORGANIZE THE BEHAVIOR OF MEN AND WOMEN. 1. GLOBALIZATION OF THE WORLD ECONOMY: CHANGES IN TRANSPORT, COMMERCE, BANKING INDUSTRY AND COMMUNICATIONS CONNECT THE WORLD IN WAYS WHICH TRANSCEND NATION STATES. 2. IN THE NEXT 20-50 YEARS SOME 10-12 BLOCS WILL EXPAND THE UNIT OF SOCIAL ORGANIZATION AND THE DRAMAS OF THE HOLY [E.G., THE 4TH OF JULY] WHICH SANCTIFY HUMANS BEINGS TO EACH OTHER. 3. SOCIAL JUSTICE CONCERNS AND PROGRAMS WILL EXPAND AS BLOCS FORM; CONFLICT BETWEEN THEM CONTINUES IN A VARIETY OF MODALITIES. 4. THE BLOCS FORMING WILL PROBABLY INCLUDE: A. NAB: THE NORTH AMERICAN BLOC DOWN TO PANAMA. B. WEB: THE WESTERN EUROPEAN BLOC: SWEDEN TO SPAIN; ENGLAND TO POLAND. C. PER: THE PACIFIC EAST RIM BLOC: JAPAN, KOREA, PHILLIPINES? D. SEAB: SOUTHEAST ASIAN BLOC: SINGAPORE IS CORE; VIETNAM, MALAYSIA, CAM- BODIA, MAYBE BURMA E. GCB: THE GREATER CHINA BLOC: HONGKONG IS CORE; TAIWAN, MONGOLIA, TIBET F. SSEB: FORMER SOVIET SOCIALIST BLOC: URKRAINE, SIBERIA, RUSSIA G. CEEB: CENTRAL EUROPEAN BLOC: FINLAND TO SOFIA...MAYBE MORE H. MEB: MUSLIM ECON BLOC: ALL OF NORTH AFRICA...MUCH OF ASIA MINOR, SOUTH PART OF FORMER USSR; MAYBE MALAYSIA, PART OF PHILLIPINES I. SSAB: SUB-SAHARAN AFRICAN BLOC: UGANDA TO SOUTH AFRICA...ISRAEL MAY BE IMPORTANT PART J. SAC: SOUTH AMERICAN CONE: BRAZIL, ARGENTINA, CHILE, PERU, NORTH TO? 5. BLOC FORMATION IS VERY FLUID; CHANGING FACTORS WORK TO SHAPE BLOCS: A. RELIGIOUS TRADITION B. LANGUAGE D. PROXIMITY, PAST ALLIANCES/EMNITIES E. NATURAL RESOURCES/STRATEGIC LOCATION 6. IMPLICATIONS FOR SOCIAL SCIENCES: A. SCHOLARSHIP HAS TO BE TRANSNATIONAL, COMPARATIVE B. THEORY HAS TO BE ACCOMODATING TO VARIETY, CHANGE C. METHODS HAVE TO EXPAND TO INCLUDE WIDER VARIETY OF RESEARCH TOOLS MORE ABOUT COMPLEXITY/CHAOS AND RESEARCH LATER. D. JOINT APPOINTMENTS IN SEVERAL UNIVERSITIES FOR RESEARCH TEAMS E. TEXT BOOKS HAVE TO BE FAR MORE ANTHROPOLOGICAL F. DEVIANCY BOOKS HAVE TO SURRENDER CULTURAL DEFINITIONS MORE TO COME IN PART III, NEXT SUNDAY, ABOUT POSTMODERN RELIGION, THE GOD CONCEPT, SOCIAL JUSTICE AND BLOC FORMATION. IN THE MEANTIME, ENJOY THE 4TH OF JULY...SUCH NATIONALISTIC DRAMAS OF THE HOLY ARE IMPORTANT IN THIS HISTORICAL EPOCH...AND DRAMAS OF THE HOLY WHICH BIND US TOGETHER IN PEACE AND SOLIDARITY ARE IMPORTANT IN EVERY EPOCH. From socgrad-relay@UCSD.EDU Mon Jul 4 07:14:02 1994 sendmail 8.6.9/UCSD-2.2-sun Mon, 4 Jul 1994 07:13:04 -0700 for socgrad-list Mon, 4 Jul 1994 07:13:02 -0700 for Date: Mon, 4 Jul 94 10:12 EDT From: "I don't think this will reduce confusion" Subject: Re: THE END OF HISTORY: PART II To: 34LPF6T@CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU >CONCEPT, SOCIAL JUSTICE AND BLOC FORMATION. IN THE MEANTIME, ENJOY THE >4TH OF JULY...SUCH NATIONALISTIC DRAMAS OF THE HOLY ARE IMPORTANT IN THIS >HISTORICAL EPOCH...AND DRAMAS OF THE HOLY WHICH BIND US TOGETHER IN PEACE >AND SOLIDARITY ARE IMPORTANT IN EVERY EPOCH. Why thank you. While incinerating fowls around the modern version of a campfire, I plan to raise toasts of tequila to our forbearers. Jetaway Dave From socgrad-relay@UCSD.EDU Mon Jul 4 09:11:24 1994 sendmail 8.6.9/UCSD-2.2-sun Mon, 4 Jul 1994 09:09:56 -0700 for socgrad-list Mon, 4 Jul 1994 09:09:54 -0700 for Date: Mon, 04 Jul 94 10:59:59 CDT From: KLOSKY@vm1.nodak.edu Organization: North Dakota Higher Education Computer Network Subject: Re: THE END OF HISTORY: PART II To: "T R. Young" <34LPF6T@CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU>, GRADUATE STUDENTS IN SOCIOLOGY TR, I like the classroom analogy you use. You are making a presentation to the rest of us, and I commend your initative. But I have a concern, both structurally, and substantively. Structurally: I raised a question about your presentation, and you told me to wait, there would be a second part that would address my question. I have now read Part II, and have seen no evidence that my concern was considered. Substantively: I just want to raise my concern again... I realize that you have a theory (chaos/complexity), but where is the research to back up your predictions of the future? How do you know which blocs will form? SKEE -- A noisy student in the back row who sleeps half the time. From socgrad-relay@UCSD.EDU Tue Jul 5 09:18:23 1994 sendmail 8.6.9/UCSD-2.2-sun Tue, 5 Jul 1994 09:15:51 -0700 for socgrad-list Tue, 5 Jul 1994 09:15:47 -0700 for Subject: Ethical concerns of medical authority To: socgrad@UCSD.EDU Date: Tue, 5 Jul 1994 11:15:41 -0500 (CDT) From: "John J. Maurer" Hello fellow socgrad'ers. Recently I have had an upclose look at the medical community and their attained authority over life giving/taking decisions. Specifically that concerning the evaluation of organ transplant recipients. Having been somewhat well read on theories of medicalization and taking a interactionist-socio-historical view on the subject matter, I was not shocked to find the very non-scientific (here the word scientific used to pertain to empirically tested medical/biological evidence) based factors used to evaluate "eligible" organ recipients. I was, however, frightened when seeing these decisions being enacted before my eyes. My experience more specifically relates to liver patients. Two very dangerous conditions (each of which may exacerbate, if not cause, the other), Cirrhosis and Hepatitis C (formerly non A, non B hepatitis), carry with them socially stigmatized causational (that is theoretically known causes) activities by the victim/patient. With Cirrhosis, alcohol consumption or alcoholism, if you prefer, is considered a major causal agent. For Hepatitis C, a couple of the little known causal factors include, IV drug use and in a small percentage of the patients, transmission through unprotected sex. As mentioned above these "known" causes of Hepatitis C and Cirrhosis carry with them stigma. Typically patients who have been diagnosed with these dissorders/diseases and have been determined by physicians as contracting one or both of these through the above mentioned "deviant" behaviors, are rejected a liver until rehabilitation has been determined by the supervising physician. Determination of a "rehabilitated" patient consists of (in most cases) a minimum of six months of continual attendance in a group such as AA or other comparable organization. Although the reality of the situation is, the supervising physician's own moral judgement is the final determinant of who and who will not be a recipient of a liver. This is where the fear factor kicks in for me. One thing that scares the hell out of me is the immense amount of power this gives the medical field. Perhaps it is the greatest power of all, who will live and who will die. In my opinion, with power, corruption (at least in some measure) ALWAYS factors in. Now to justify this, the physicians will state that it is policy, a policy that protects "morally good" liver patients from being denied access to their liver-fit, because some drunk got the type they need, a policy that comes from above (from the national organ transplant institute), which makes it out of their hands. A policy that presumably cannot be deviated from. Now the organt transplant foundation to which this policy is attributed to will say that statistically this policy makes sense. They state that alcoholics and IV drug users have shown statistically proven recidivism that will in turn destroy the newly implanted organ. Therefore it is considered a waste to give a alcohoic or druggy a liver without proving that they are recovered. This claim presents a number of problems. First, what if the patient is not in the condition to attend such rehabilitation groups. Remember, they are sick people? Worse, what if the patient isn't in a position have having six months left to prove that they will never use or abuse again? There is no consideration of an ex post operation rehabilitation. Perhaps the greatest problem here is the very shaky assumption of what an alcoholic or drug addict is. Both cirrhosis and hepatitis C can be caused by either a one time use (in the case of hep C) or very casual/typical/social/whatever use (in the case of cirrhosis). Since there is no defining level of what amount of consumption makes a druggy or alchy then how can it be justified to make such assumptions when it comes to a persons life? There is much more I could say , but I think I'll save it either for myself or perhaps someone who is into medical sociology or otherwise who may want to discuss some of these issues. Thanks, John Maurer From socgrad-relay@UCSD.EDU Tue Jul 5 13:06:42 1994 sendmail 8.6.9/UCSD-2.2-sun Tue, 5 Jul 1994 12:51:20 -0700 for socgrad-list Tue, 5 Jul 1994 12:48:38 -0700 for Date: Tue, 5 Jul 1994 14:49:05 -0500 To: "John J. Maurer" , socgrad@UCSD.EDU From: ghougham@medicine.bsd.uchicago.edu (Gavin Hougham) Subject: Re: Ethical concerns of medical authority At 11:15 AM 7/5/94, John J. Maurer wrote: >Hello fellow socgrad'ers. Recently I have had an upclose look at the >medical community and their attained authority over life giving/taking >decisions. Specifically that concerning the evaluation of organ >transplant recipients. John, You raise concerns that allocation of scarce resources (livers) might be made on criteria that are less than "scientific." I would argue that scarce resources are usually allocated on multiple bases of criteria (one set being tissue matching, another might be age, another might be "productiveness" or "usefulness" to society, or how many "quality adjusted life years" can be expected, etc., etc.) and that the more interesting question is to ask how any one set of criteria come to be the "manifest" criteria, while other criteria become either delegitimized altogether or remain only marginally legitimate. You ask why, for example, should we deny an unrepentant (so far) alcoholic a new liver because we have not given him a fair chance ("Ah, but if I had a new liver, then I'd have a reason to 'reform'.") to prove his moral probity. Wearever scarce resources are in search of an allocation algorithm, criteria will emerge, or will be proposed by those in control of such resources, that minimize allocation costs. To the extent that potential recipients of such resources can in turn make decisions costly for those making allocation decisions, those potential recipients will "make out" better than those unable to generate such costs. Now, this is a pretty "rational actor" approach in that those taking decisions can be predicted to act in ways that minimize costs to themselves. Everyone from the individual physician on up through institutional actors at the national level could be predicted to act in this way ("locally" rational, if you like). Your implied question, however, asks why do we have scarce resources at all. Why should we not make livers available to anyone who wants one, regardless of how morally "deserving" they are? Who are these doctors to decide, anyway? Well, the facile answer is that these types of resources ARE scarce, and that allocation will be made on criteria that some will like and others will not like... same for salaries and occupational status and marriages (Cf. Davis and Moore, et al.). I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you, I'm just giving you one response to your "fear" about the uses and potential abuses of power. Now, to give you one final take on the question, people in the state of Oregon got sick and tired of going around and around on the question of resource allocation in medicine, and tried to develop criteria that are at least in principle "knowable," or "definable." They realized that resource allocation algorithms WERE often contradictory or morally suspect, so they have spent the last ten years trying to standardize criteria for what the state will pay for in its Medicaid program. I'm sure folks are familiar with this initiative... The point is that everyone involved in medical decision-making realized that there are scarce resources, and rather than rely merely on "interactionist-socio-historical" (to use your words) patterns, they would try to introduce criteria that were less morally devisive. Any thoughts? I hang out with medical ethicists, so forgive me for any jargon that may seem abrasive to you 'all :-) Gavin Hougham --------------------------------------------------------------------- Gavin Hougham University of Chicago Department of Sociology 1126 East 59th Street Chicago, IL 60637 E-mail: gwh2@midway.uchicago.edu Office: Department of General Internal Medicine (312) 702-6735 From socgrad-relay@UCSD.EDU Tue Jul 5 13:59:30 1994 sendmail 8.6.9/UCSD-2.2-sun Tue, 5 Jul 1994 13:57:16 -0700 for socgrad-list Tue, 5 Jul 1994 13:57:09 -0700 for Subject: organ transplants To: socgrad@UCSD.EDU Date: Tue, 5 Jul 1994 16:57:06 -0400 (EDT) From: Karen T Farquharson If you want to know about the sociology of organ transplants two books are: Renee Fox and Judith Swazey (1992) _Spare Parts: Organ Replacement in American Society_ Renee Fox and Judith Swazey (late seventies) _Courage to Fail: A Social View of Organ Transplants and Dialysis_ From socgrad-relay@UCSD.EDU Tue Jul 5 14:06:17 1994 sendmail 8.6.9/UCSD-2.2-sun Tue, 5 Jul 1994 14:04:43 -0700 for socgrad-list Tue, 5 Jul 1994 14:04:36 -0700 for Subject: Re: Ethical concerns of medical authority To: ghougham@medicine.bsd.uchicago.edu (Gavin Hougham) Date: Tue, 5 Jul 1994 16:04:25 -0500 (CDT) From: "John J. Maurer" > > At 11:15 AM 7/5/94, John J. Maurer wrote: > >Hello fellow socgrad'ers. Recently I have had an upclose look at the > >medical community and their attained authority over life giving/taking > >decisions. Specifically that concerning the evaluation of organ > >transplant recipients. > > John, > > You raise concerns that allocation of scarce resources (livers) might be > made on criteria that are less than "scientific." I would argue that > scarce resources are usually allocated on multiple bases of criteria (one > set being tissue matching, another might be age, another might be > "productiveness" or "usefulness" to society, or how many "quality adjusted > life years" can be expected, etc., etc.) and that the more interesting > question is to ask how any one set of criteria come to be the "manifest" > criteria, while other criteria become either delegitimized altogether or > remain only marginally legitimate. You ask why, for example, should we deny > an unrepentant (so far) alcoholic a new liver because we have not given him > a fair chance ("Ah, but if I had a new liver, then I'd have a reason to > 'reform'.") to prove his moral probity. > Gavin, I both agree that livers are a scarce resource AND that these resources are allocated on multiple bases of criteria. My point being that the "manifest" (to use your words) overrides all other criteria without regard simply because this "manifest" criteria fits into the realm of deviant behavior. Thus the medical field is no longer making a tactical or "rational"(be it locally or otherwise) decision they are making a MORAL one. Not to mention the basis for alcohol/frug abuse history a criteria at all is based on bogus information. This information, thus claiming anywhere from 20 to 70% recidivism which may destroy the new liver. May being the optimal word here. So therefore even only a fraction of the percent of recidivists damage the new liver. Let it be quite clear that useage of the term alcoholics is used quite loosely and without being in a clear or empirical framework. The stigmatized behavior becomes the Master Status (or critieria) overclouding ALL other factors. This person was only in their mid-thirties, had two children and a spouse, and was a recent graduate of a prestigous law school (graduated fifth in their class) not to mention a recipient of multiple scholarships and awards. > Wearever scarce resources are in search of an allocation algorithm, criteria > will emerge, or will be proposed by those in control of such resources, that > minimize allocation costs. To the extent that potential recipients of such > resources can in turn make decisions costly for those making allocation > decisions, those potential recipients will "make out" better than those > unable to generate such costs. Now, this is a pretty "rational actor" > approach in that those taking decisions can be predicted to act in ways that > minimize costs to themselves. Everyone from the individual physician on up > through institutional actors at the national level could be predicted to act > in this way ("locally" rational, if you like). Gavin, No rational decision is made when it comes to stigmatizing peoples behavior based on moralistic claims of knowledge and authority. When in fact the grounds on which such claims of knowledge have NO basis. What defines an alcoholic? What volume of alcohol must be consumed and how often? IS whatever definition you come up with consistant? Firmly based on rational evidence? > > Your implied question, however, asks why do we have scarce resources at > all. Why should we not make livers available to anyone who wants one, > regardless of how morally "deserving" they are? Who are these doctors to > decide, anyway? Well, the facile answer is that these types of resources > ARE scarce, and that allocation will be made on criteria that some will like > and others will not like... same for salaries and occupational status and > marriages (Cf. Davis and Moore, et al.). Gavin, I should only hope that ANY and ALL criteria are based on REAL and provable evidence. The mere claim that there are multiple criteria is false when one can overrule all others. In that case only non"alcoholics" are given the benefit of a weighing in of various criteria. The person labelled an alcoholic is given one: you better prove you will never drink again, and if you don't even get that oppurtunity then you're SOL. > I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you, I'm just giving you one response > to your "fear" about the uses and potential abuses of power. Now, to give > you one final take on the question, people in the state of Oregon got sick > and tired of going around and around on the question of resource allocation > in medicine, and tried to develop criteria that are at least in principle > "knowable," or "definable." They realized that resource allocation > algorithms WERE often contradictory or morally suspect, so they have spent > the last ten years trying to standardize criteria for what the state will > pay for in its Medicaid program. I'm sure folks are familiar with this > initiative... The point is that everyone involved in medical > decision-making realized that there are scarce resources, and rather than > rely merely on "interactionist-socio-historical" (to use your words) > patterns, they would try to introduce criteria that were less morally > devisive. Gavin, That is my point precisely there needs to be less moral judgement when making live giving/taking decisions that the medical community does. The interactionist-socio-historical patterns merely lay out the fact that physicians have and do make authoritative claims on morality. When one socially and medically defined area of deviance prevents life saving treatment (no matter how SCARCE the resource) it is a wrongful way to base allocation of such resources. Wrongful ethically and wrongful substantively method. > > Any thoughts? I hang out with medical ethicists, so forgive me for any > jargon that may seem abrasive to you 'all :-) > > Gavin Hougham > Gavin, Thanks for the feedback. John Maurer > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > Gavin Hougham > University of Chicago > Department of Sociology > 1126 East 59th Street > Chicago, IL 60637 > E-mail: gwh2@midway.uchicago.edu > Office: Department of General Internal Medicine > (312) 702-6735 > > From socgrad-relay@UCSD.EDU Tue Jul 5 14:25:26 1994 sendmail 8.6.9/UCSD-2.2-sun Tue, 5 Jul 1994 14:24:17 -0700 for socgrad-list Tue, 5 Jul 1994 14:24:13 -0700 for From: blovitts@nsf.gov To: socgrad@UCSD.EDU Subject: call for papers Date: 5 Jul 94 14:44 EST FYI > > Call for Papers > > > THE WOMEN and GENDER in SCIENCE QUESTION > > What do research on women and science > and research on science and gender > have to do with each other? > > May 12-14, 1995 > University of Minnesota > > > >This conference will bring together historians, philosophers, >sociologists, scientists, teachers, and others interested in >current research on women and gender in science. >Presenters will include scholars who recognize that women >have engaged in science and technology throughout history >and seek to understand how women's participation has been >undertaken and understood, promoted and discouraged, and >envisioned and realized. It will also involve researchers >who explore how women's absence and the dominance of >men in science has had an impact on the processes and >outcomes of scientific experimentation and theorizing. > >Conference themes will include women's contributions to >the advancement of the sciences; the personal and external >factors that empowered them or inhibited their >achievements and satisfaction in science; the interactions of >race, gender, and social class in shaping women's >experiences in the sciences; characteristics and processes of >scientific activities that have been influenced by ideas about >sexual identity, sexual difference, and the language and >culture of science; the representation of males, females, and >sexuality in scientific theory; the role of gendered images >and metaphors in scientific theorizing; and the relationship >between gender and conceptions of knowledge. > >Conference commentators and respondents are drawn from >a list of scholars working in this area including Pnina >Abir-Am, Estelle Cohen, Sandra Harding, Evelyn Fox >Keller, Sally Gregory Kohlstedt, Nina Lerman, Helen >Longino, Karen Seashore Louis, Carolyn Merchant, Robert >Nye, Margaret W. Rossiter, Elvira Scheich, Londa >Schiebinger, Sharon Traweek, and Alison Wylie. The >conference is supported in part by the Science and >Technology Studies Program, the Women in Science and >Engineering initiative of the Comission on Women, the >Center for Advanced Feminist Studies, and several other >colleges and departments at the University of Minnesota. > >Proposals must include two copies of a two-page abstract >and a short curriculum vitae. Proposals may be submitted >jointly to be presented as a panel. An abstract and vitae are >required for each panel member. Proposals are due by >September 10, 1994. If you have any questions or would >like to be put on the mailing list to receive the conference >brochure, please contact Lori Graven: phone >612-625-9023, fax 612-626-1632, e-mail >lgraven@maroon.tc.umn.edu. Conference materials will be >available after January 1, 1995. > > > > Send proposals to: > > Women and Gender in Science Conference > Professional Development and Conference Services > University of Minnesota > 216 Nolte Center > 315 Pillsbury Drive S.E. > Minneapolis, MN 55455-0139 > > >The University of Minnesota is an equal opportunity >educator and employer. > > From socgrad-relay@UCSD.EDU Tue Jul 5 17:08:01 1994 sendmail 8.6.9/UCSD-2.2-sun Tue, 5 Jul 1994 17:06:58 -0700 for socgrad-list Tue, 5 Jul 1994 17:06:42 -0700 for Date: Tue, 05 Jul 94 19:49:59 EDT From: Marni Hancock Organization: Emory University - Atlanta, Georgia, USA Subject: TRANSPLANTS To: SOCGRAD@UCSD.EDU First of all, an alcoholic is anyone who drinks more than his/her physician. This definition has been around for many years and is still at least marginally accurate. :) I am not up to date on the current criteria for transplant recipients, but would be surprised to find persons with alcoholic liver disease on the list at all since, in my experience, persons with that form of liver destruction consistently have damaged other, non-replacable body systems to the point that replacing the liver might, at best, delay the inevitable. In regard to viral infections of the liver, it would seem that a similar train of thought would be applicable since I think it be difficult, if not impossible, to eliminate all of the virus from the body at any point--which means a liver transplant, with its necessary accompaniments of medications/treatments to suppress the recipient's immune system would lead to rapid infection and destruction of the new liver by the same infectious agent that destroyed the old one. Is it possible that one of the requirements for a transplant is to promise never to consume alcoholic beverages? I wonder. Anyway, I thoroughly understand your concern regarding selection of transplant recipients--especially the moral judgements involved. How would you suggest that society distribute such scarce resources? Should there be age restrictions? would you institute a lottery system? where would you place convicted felons? non-citizens? etc? I would appreciate some new thoughts on the subject to help me clarify my thinking on the subject--especially the next time I'm on duty when Life Link of Georgia comes to the hospital to "harvest" the organs of some poor brain dead teenager at the hospital where I work. Marni Hancock SOCAW059@EMUVM1.CC.EMORY.EDU From socgrad-relay@UCSD.EDU Wed Jul 6 11:23:47 1994 sendmail 8.6.9/UCSD-2.2-sun Wed, 6 Jul 1994 11:21:23 -0700 for socgrad-list Wed, 6 Jul 1994 11:21:21 -0700 for Date: Wed, 6 Jul 1994 13:21:02 -0500 (CDT) From: timmermans stefan m Subject: SKAT To: socgrad@UCSD.EDU Hello Soc in Cyberspace, if there are any SKAT (ASA section on Science, Knowledge and Technology) student members reading SOCGRAD, please send me a note. I am one of the student representatives and would like to know if there are any issues I need to bring up at the very, very early SKAT council meeting in L.A. Take care, Stefan Timmermans Stefan@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu From socgrad-relay@UCSD.EDU Wed Jul 6 12:19:49 1994 sendmail 8.6.9/UCSD-2.2-sun Wed, 6 Jul 1994 12:18:34 -0700 for socgrad-list Wed, 6 Jul 1994 12:18:31 -0700 for From: SHAFER@binah.cc.brandeis.edu Date: Wed, 6 Jul 1994 15:15 EDT Subject: physicians and organ transplants To: socgrad@UCSD.EDU Having both worked in organ transplant units and done research in intensive care units I would like to add a few comments. 1. Transplant units are generally located in research hospitals. Research hospitals choose their patients in order to answer research oriented questions. These questions are not usually placed in moral terms. This is not denying that a priveleged patient may receive perferential treatment just that the research institution is not equipped to solve moral problems of character, worth etc. 2. Empirical research has shown that the more transplants done by a medical team the better the results. This fact along with increase status, teaching responcibilities, increase compensation, etc. drives each transplant unit to place all availiable organs to in-house patients as well as to aggressively procure as many outside organs as possible. This leads to an almost comical competition for organs (literally having lear-jets form competing institutions racing from site to site to pick up organs) as well as organs being placed in in-house patients that fall outside the matrix. I have seen hearts being placed in a 69 yr. old when the institutions own protocal calls for a max. of 55 years of age and a liver placed in a patient for the second time when this patient refused to stop drug use. 3. On stigma applied to patients. I have found this is a hospital wide phenomenon not just a physician problem. In fact there is much grumbling that the physician-patient relationship has become limited and alienating as a result of the physicians seeing their patients as disease processes not as complex human beings. I have found that much of the stigma to patients is applied by nursing and allied health personell and that physicians tend to look through the social to get to what they enjoy which is the technical and the scientific. 4. Untill we as a society start public forums about the use of expensive technologies (and the cost) we are stuck with a very expensive and nor more effective brand of medicine than many other industrialized societies. dave shafer From socgrad-relay@UCSD.EDU Wed Jul 6 21:20:07 1994 sendmail 8.6.9/UCSD-2.2-sun Wed, 6 Jul 1994 21:18:43 -0700 for socgrad-list Wed, 6 Jul 1994 21:18:42 -0700 for Date: Wed, 6 Jul 1994 21:18:41 -0700 (PDT) From: Summer and Hoek Survey Subject: pre-test To: socgrad@UCSD.EDU Hi there, A collegue and myself are currently developing a survey instrument which we hope to implement via electronic mail. We are now at the pre-testing stage. This list was recommended to us as a source of informed sociological insight. We are looking for volunteers to give us much needed feedback on the both the operationalization and conceptualization of our survey. We would deeply appriciate your help with our pre-test. We are forwarding along a copy of the instrument for those who are interested in participating. Thanks again. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ATTENTION: THIS SURVEY IS BEING SENT TO MULTIPLE ELECTRONIC MAILING NETWORKS AND BULLETIN BOARDS. IF THIS POST IS A DUPLICATE, PLEASE DISREGARD. WE APOLOGIZE FOR ANY INCONVENIENCE THIS MAY HAVE CAUSED YOU. Dear Virtual Friend - In recent months there has been much discussion regarding uses and abuses of electronic mail (e-mail). In this survey we wish to explore the impact e-mail has on our personal, professional and academic lives. This survey is being conducted by researchers at the University of Nevada. It has been sent to members of randomly selected on-line networks from a master list of lists containing over 5,000 listserv addresses. Your participation in this survey is completely voluntary, however, in order to gather a fair impression about opinions concerning these issues, it is important that as many people as possible respond to this survey. Please be assured that your answers will be kept COMPLETELY CONFIDENTIAL. Records of identification will be deleted immediately upon receipt of each survey. HOW TO RESPOND: PLEASE RETURN SURVEY TO: SHSURVEY@NEVADA.EDU 1. You may use your editor to fill out the survey and either forward or otherwise return it to us via our e-mail address. 2. You may download the survey to your personal computer, fill out the survey, upload to your server, and return it via our e-mail address. 3. You may return to us only your responses via our e-mail address, by either reading it off your computer screen or by using the "print screen" command and obtaining a hard copy. 4. If you would like to participate, but are not sure how to respond, please e-mail us and we will make arrangements. If you would like a copy of the survey results, please send us a separate message, with your e-mail adress and a single line reading "copy or results" Your participation is much apprecieted and we would like to thank you for your time and insight. Sincerely, D. Summer M. Reynolds University of Nevada ----------------------------------------------------------------- SECTION ONE In this first section of the questionnaire we would like to know about the different uses that you have for your electronic mail account. For each question please place an "x" by the most appropriate response. ----------------------------------------------------------------- Q1. During an average week (7 days), how often would you say you use your electronic mail account? 1. [ ] more than once a day 2. [ ] once a day 3. [ ] four to six times a week 4. [ ] one to three times a week 5. [ ] I don't log-on weekly Q2. For what purposes have you used your electronic mail account? Please indicate all that apply. 1. [ ] academic research 2. [ ] personal communication 3. [ ] work related 4. [ ] professional or work related research 5. [ ] mailing lists or bulletin boards 6. [ ] information sharing 7. [ ] converse with colleges 8. [ ] converse with friends 9. [ ] establish friendships 10. [ ] establish personal relationships 11. [ ] establishing business contacts 12. [ ] part of a class 13. [ ] other (please specify) Q3. In general would you say that your use of electronic mail is mainly for personal correspondence, for entertainment purposes, for educational or for work related purposes? [MARK ONE] 1. [ ] personal correspondence 2. [ ] entertainment 3. [ ] educational 4. [ ] work Q4. Is it essential to, or required by your work that you use electronic mail? 1. [ ] yes 2. [ ] no Q5. How many electronic mailing lists or bulletin boards do you subscribe to? ----------------------------------------------------------------- SECTION TWO ----------------------------------------------------------------- In this next section we would like to ask you some general questions about communication styles over electronic mail. Please indicate your level of disagreement or agreement with the following statements by placing an "x" by the most appropriate response. Strongly Strongly disagree Disagree Agree agree Q6. People tend to 1. [ ] 2. [ ] 3. [ ] 4. [ ] write things on e-mail that they would not ordinarily say in face-to-face conversation. Q7. People tend to be 1. [ ] 2. [ ] 3. [ ] 4. [ ] more truthful on e-mail than they are in face- to-face conversations. Q8. People tend to be 1. [ ] 2. [ ] 3. [ ] 4. [ ] more self-serving on e-mail than they are in face-to-face conversations. Q9. People tend to be 1. [ ] 2. [ ] 3. [ ] 4. [ ] more aggressive on e-mail than they are in face-to-face conversations. Q10. I have noticed that 1. [ ] 2. [ ] 3. [ ] 4. [ ] men and women communicate differently on e-mail. Q11. I find it less 1. [ ] 2. [ ] 3. [ ] 4. [ ] intimidating to communicate with some people over e-mail. ----------------------------------------------------------------- SECTION THREE ----------------------------------------------------------------- In this next section, we would like to ask you some questions regarding the appropriateness of certain activities over electronic mail. Q12. The following is a list of behaviors which have occurred over electronic mail. Please indicate which, if any of these behaviors you would consider to be inappropriate for e-mail communication by placing an "x" in the box of all that apply. 1. [ ] sexually explicit messages 2. [ ] sexually or racially oriented jokes 3. [ ] foul language 4. [ ] requests for sexual favors 5. [ ] sexually explicit computer graphics 6. [ ] repeated requests for personal contact 7. [ ] interruptions using the "talk" feature 8. [ ] surveys sent through electronic mail 9. [ ] advertisements sent through electronic mail 10. [ ] calls for papers sent through electronic mail 11. [ ] personalized demeaning comments regarding a person's race, class, gender, or sexual orientation/ identity 12. [ ] personalized demeaning comments regarding a person's intellect 13. [ ] questions about one's physical appearance. 14. [ ] questions of a personal nature 15. [ ] none Q13 Are there any other behaviors which you feel are inappropriate for e-mail communication that you would like to add to this list? (please specify) Q14 Do you think it is possible to be harassed over electronic mail? 1. [ ] Yes 2. [ ] No If "yes", please go to the next question, Q15. If "no", please skip to SECTION FOUR, Q29. Q15 Considering those behaviors in Q12 which you marked as inappropriate for e-mail communication, Do you feel that any of them could be considered harassment, either sexual, racial, or harassment based upon sexual orientation/ identity? 1. [ ] yes (PLEASE INDICATE WHICH BEHAVIORS BY FILLING IN THE NUMBER WHICH CORRESPONDS FROM Q12) 2. [ ] no Q16 Is there any behavior which you feel could be considered harassment that you would like to add to this list? 1. [ ] yes (please specify) 2. [ ] no Q17 Have you ever been sexually or racially harassed, or have you experienced harassment due to your sexual orientation/ identity over electronic mail? 1. [ ] yes 2. [ ] no If yes, please go to next question, Q18 If no, please skip to SECTION FOUR, Q29 Q18 Where did you experience this harassment? Were you: [MARK ALL THAT APPLY] 1. [ ] on a personal account at work 2. [ ] on a public account at work 3. [ ] on a personal account at home 4. [ ] on a public account at home 5. [ ] on a personal account at school 6. [ ] on a public account at school 7. [ ] other (please specify) Q19 Did you know the identity of the person(s) who harassed you? 1. [ ] yes 2. [ ] no 3. [ ] in some cases (more than one incident) Q20 Was the perpetrator male or female? or have you experienced harassment from both males and females? 1. [ ] male 2. [ ] female 3. [ ] both 4. [ ] don't know the identity of perpetrator(s) Q21 Was the harassment you experienced over e-mail SEXUAL in nature? 1. [ ] yes 2. [ ] no If yes, please briefly explain the situation(s). Q22 Was the harassment you experienced over e-mail RACIAL in nature? 1. [ ] yes 2. [ ] no If yes, please briefly explain the situation(s). Q23 Was the harassment you experienced over e-mail due to your SEXUAL ORIENTATION/IDENTITY? 1. [ ] yes 2. [ ] no If yes, please briefly explain the situation(s). Q24 The following is a list of reactions that people have reported having after being harassed. Please tell us if any of the following apply to your feelings regarding your experiences by answering yes or no to the following statements. (MARK THE CORRECT RESPONSE). Yes No a. I felt flattered. 1. [ ] 2. [ ] b. I felt angry. 1. [ ] 2. [ ] c. I felt guilty. 1. [ ] 2. [ ] d. I felt powerless. 1. [ ] 2. [ ] e. I felt surprised. 1. [ ] 2. [ ] f. I felt embarrassed. 1. [ ] 2. [ ] g. I felt frightened. 1. [ ] 2. [ ] h. I felt violated. 1. [ ] 2. [ ] i. I felt betrayed 1. [ ] 2. [ ] j. Are there any additional feelings or emotions which characterized your experience that you would like to add to this list? 1. [ ] yes (please specify) 2. [ ] no Q25 The following is a list of physical or emotional symptoms associated with harassment. Please indicate if you have experienced any of them as a result of being harassed over electronic mail by placing an "x" by THE MOST APPROPRIATE RESPONSE(S). Yes No N/A a. increased irritability 1. [ ] 2. [ ] 9. [ ] b. change of attitude toward school 1. [ ] 2. [ ] 9. [ ] c. decrease in work quality 1. [ ] 2. [ ] 9. [ ] d. muscular tension 1. [ ] 2. [ ] 9. [ ] e. nervousness on campus 1. [ ] 2. [ ] 9. [ ] f. nausea 1. [ ] 2. [ ] 9. [ ] g. depression 1. [ ] 2. [ ] 9. [ ] h. crying spells 1. [ ] 2. [ ] 9. [ ] i. feelings of low self-esteem 1. [ ] 2. [ ] 9. [ ] j. nervous tension 1. [ ] 2. [ ] 9. [ ] h. decrease in school productivity 1. [ ] 2. [ ] 9. [ ] i. weight loss or gain 1. [ ] 2. [ ] 9. [ ] j. anxiety at home 1. [ ] 2. [ ] 9. [ ] k. headaches 1. [ ] 2. [ ] 9. [ ] l. anxiety at school 1. [ ] 2. [ ] 9. [ ] m. anxiety at work 1. [ ] 2. [ ] 9. [ ] n. change of attitude toward work 1. [ ] 2. [ ] 9. [ ] o. change of attitude toward e-mail 1. [ ] 2. [ ] 9. [ ] p. decrease in work productivity 1. [ ] 2. [ ] 9. [ ] q. Are there any physical or emotional symptoms that you experienced as a result of being sexually harassed that you would like to add to this list? 1. [ ] yes (please specify) 2. [ ] no Q26 The following is a list of possible responses to being harassed. Please tell us if any of these characterized your FIRST reaction to being harassed over electronic mail by answering "yes" or "no" to the following statements. Yes No N/A a. I ignored the harassment 1. [ ] 2. [ ] 9. [ ] b. I told the harasser to stop 1. [ ] 2. [ ] 9. [ ] c. I removed myself from the 1. [ ] 2. [ ] 9. [ ] electronic network d. I quit my job because of the 1. [ ] 2. [ ] 9. [ ] harassment e. I dropped a course the harasser 1. [ ] 2. [ ] 9. [ ] was in or teaching f. I discussed the harassment with 1. [ ] 2. [ ] 9. [ ] someone I trust g. I stopped using e-mail 1. [ ] 2. [ ] 9. [ ] h. I reported the harassment 1. [ ] 2. [ ] 9. [ ] i. Are there any other FIRST reactions to having been harassed that you would like to add to this list? 1. [ ] yes (please specify) 2. [ ] no Q27 Considering all of your responses, OTHER THAN YOUR FIRST REACTION, to having been harassed, please indicate if any of the following characterized your SUBSEQUENT responses by answering "yes" or "no" to the following statements. [CHECK ALL THAT APPLY] Yes No N/A a. I ignored the harassment 1. [ ] 2. [ ] 9. [ ] b. I reported the harassment 1. [ ] 2. [ ] 9. [ ] c. I told the harasser to stop 1. [ ] 2. [ ] 9. [ ] d. I removed myself from the 1. [ ] 2. [ ] 9. [ ] electronic network e. I quit my job because of the 1. [ ] 2. [ ] 9. [ ] harassment f. I dropped a course the harasser 1. [ ] 2. [ ] 9. [ ] was in or teaching g. I discussed the harassment with 1. [ ] 2. [ ] 9. [ ] someone I trust h. I stopped using e-mail 1. [ ] 2. [ ] 9. [ ] i. Is there any response to having been harassed that you would like to add to this list? 1. [ ] yes (please specify) 2. [ ] no Q28 If you reported the harassment, briefly describe what, if any, official or unofficial measures were taken to prevent or stop the harassment from occurring again? ----------------------------------------------------------------- SECTION FOUR In this last section we are interested in some information about yourself which will help in the statistical analysis of this study. ----------------------------------------------------------------- Q29 What is your age? years Q30 What is your gender? 1. [ ] female 2. [ ] male Q31 In which category of ethnic background would you classify yourself? 1. [ ] Spanish, Hispanic, or Mexican American 2. [ ] Indian or Native American 3. [ ] Black or African American 4. [ ] Asian American or Pacific Islander 5. [ ] White or European American, non-Hispanic 6. [ ] Other (please specify) Q32 What is your marital status? Are you: 1. [ ] single, never married 2. [ ] single, divorced 3. [ ] married 4. [ ] widow 5. [ ] live with partner, not married Q33 What is your sexual orientation or identity? Are you: 1. [ ] gay 2. [ ] lesbian 3. [ ] bi-sexual 4. [ ] heterosexual 5. [ ] celibate Q34 On domestic social policy issues, would you consider yourself to be: 1. [ ] very liberal 2. [ ] liberal 3. [ ] middle of the road 4. [ ] conservative 5. [ ] very conservative Q35 What is your highest level of educational attainment? 1. [ ] less than high school 2. [ ] high school 3. [ ] some college 4. [ ] Associate's degree 5. [ ] Bachelor's degree 6. [ ] Master's degree 7. [ ] Doctorate or Professional degree 8. [ ] Post-doctoral work 9. [ ] Medical degree Q36 Are you affiliated with a university? 1. [ ] yes 2. [ ] no Q37 What is your occupation? Q38 What is your salary before taxes? Is it: 1. [ ] Less than $15,000 2. [ ] $15,000-$24,999 3. [ ] $25,000-$39,999 4. [ ] $40,000-$49,999 5. [ ] $50,000-$59,999 6. [ ] $60,000-$69,999 7. [ ] $70,000-$99,999 8. [ ] $100,000 or more Please write any additional comments you wold like to make about any of the questions or issues in this questionnaire. Thank you once again for your assistance. From socgrad-relay@UCSD.EDU Wed Jul 6 22:57:11 1994 sendmail 8.6.9/UCSD-2.2-sun Wed, 6 Jul 1994 22:56:17 -0700 for socgrad-list Wed, 6 Jul 1994 22:56:16 -0700 for From: Jeremy Straughn Subject: yikes! To: socgrad@UCSD.EDU Date: Thu, 7 Jul 94 0:56:13 CDT Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85] Dear Socgradders, Somehow, all my messages since 7/1 were accidentally erased. I'd be grateful if anyone who sent me a message during that time would resend it. Thanks! Jeremy S. strau@cicero.spc.uchicago.edu From socgrad-relay@UCSD.EDU Thu Jul 7 11:48:04 1994 sendmail 8.6.9/UCSD-2.2-sun Thu, 7 Jul 1994 11:44:13 -0700 for socgrad-list Thu, 7 Jul 1994 11:44:07 -0700 for Date: Thu, 7 Jul 1994 14:41 EDT From: SCOTT BLAKE Subject: OJ Editorial (is long, is good) To: socgrad@UCSD.EDU "Don't Mean Diddly: The hidden significance of crime in Los Angeles." from _The New Yorker_, July 11, 1994 Reproduced without permission, edited without shame In the nearly three weeks since OJ Simpson's white Bronco, with an imperial escort of helicopters, police cars, and cheering crowds, made its extraordinary tour of the freeways of Los Angeles, the obsession with The Story has shown little sign of abating. The most striking feature of that obsession has been the endless search for portent and meaning -- the stately unfolding, in column after column and special after network special, of the belief that what we had here was essentially a _text_, as full of hidden allusions and telling ironies and larger meanings as a passage from Donne. William Safire saw what it meant for individual responsibility. Time saw what it meant for American football. ("There was never a run like last week's final play." Of course, he ran in a _car_.) CBS took up what it meant for black role models ("There is great disappointment in some quarters about the fall of a role model"), while the Times took up the inanity of the whole idea of role models. On and on. ... These hysterical convulsions have always occurred, and tabloid journalism has always made the most of them; the human appetite for the morbid, the salacious, and the horrific is not exactly new. What is new is that treatment of every sensational event as a cultural construct. The Menendez brothers tell you something of the decline of California, Tonya and Nancy about class conflict in America, the Simpsons about spouse abuse. In the past, you could luxuriate in the horror without insisting that the horror, or your luxuriating, was an index to the state of American life and belief. In fact, to call the kind of thing we've been seeing in the past couple of weeks tabloid journalism is to do a bit of injustice to the old tabloids. The tabs of old were not in the cultural-studies business. ... The old tabs had it right: what makes crimes of passion the stuff of opera and tragedy is precisely that they are not part of the fabric of normal events -- they represent a tear right down the middle if normal life rather than defining its normal pattern. The point of, for example, Oedipus's tragedy (as, perhaps, of OJ's) was that what he had so horribly done, and what had happened to him, was his singular and peculiar horror, to which Fate had terrifyingly and unerringly summoned him, just as she might (instructive thought) sooner or later do to us all. ... Eventually, the search for what it all means becomes the search for what the media coverage of it all means. That search is now in full cry, and will soon be followed by the search for what the media coverage of the media coverage of what it all means means. Oh, well -- who can resist? What _we_ think it all means is, first, that the triumph of cable television is complete. ... Exactly thirty years ago, when Marshall McLuhan envisioned the global village -- the place, at which wee have now arrived, of everybody's instant access to everything -- he assumed, optimistically, that it would produce a world of instant understanding, in which we would all be neighbors and what each of us was doing would be known to the rest of us. Nobody could have foreseen that life in the global village was actually going to _be_ like life in a village, and we would turn to the glinty-eyed shamans to explain all that spooky stuff we just saw in the fire. What used to be called, pre-Geraldo, the "primitive mind" was mired in the belief that memorable events are always significant: the comet looms in the sky, and kingdoms must fall; the river floods, and the gods are angry. America's press and polity, on the other hand, once taught that you did not always need to look for an encompassing pattern: that some truths were self- evident, just there to be seen. Some memorable events were not very significant, and some unmemorable events might mean a lot. We were not bound to find the pattern; the point was that people could choose. ... The big media hoo-has of the past year really have very simple points, which need to be made only once: some people have no shame (the Menendez brothers), some people have no brains (the Menendez jurors), and some people have neither (the Tonya Harding crowd and, so it appears, OJ). What makes journalism good is not an eye for occult patterns but a willingness to tell plain truths plainly. Occasionally, that includes the plain truth that some of the things we find most spellbinding and intense in our public life don't, in the end, really mean much of anything. From socgrad-relay@UCSD.EDU Fri Jul 8 11:20:34 1994 sendmail 8.6.9/UCSD-2.2-sun Fri, 8 Jul 1994 11:19:04 -0700 for socgrad-list Fri, 8 Jul 1994 11:19:02 -0700 for Fri, 8 Jul 94 14:18:59 +1100 From: "ALLAN LISKA" Organization: University of Maryland,College Park To: socgrad@UCSD.EDU Date: Fri, 8 Jul 1994 14:18:31 EDT Subject: i have a question i am forwarding this message to the socgrad list. since i do not subscribe to the list, i would appreciate any responses being sent directly to me (my e-mail address is in the signature). thanks! hi everyone, i have a question: does anyone out there in e-mail land know how i can find out the ratio of women-men published articles in journals--even more specifically in sociology journals. i realize that i can go to mckeldin and start counting, but i was hoping someone had already done that for me. thanks in advance, and everyone have a good weekend! btw (to quote mark sloan): GO ROUNDING ERRORS! -allan ______________________________________________________________________ In the first peoples' world || Allan Liska The balance of power is harmonious || Department of Sociology All feed each other in dreams. || University of Maryland -Covenants Shared || HSTAUB@BSS1.UMD.EDU || FREEDOM NOW-FOR LEONARD PELTIER!! ____________________________________||________________________________ From socgrad-relay@UCSD.EDU Sun Jul 10 05:35:06 1994 sendmail 8.6.9/UCSD-2.2-sun Sun, 10 Jul 1994 05:33:54 -0700 for socgrad-list Sun, 10 Jul 1994 05:33:52 -0700 for Date: Sun, 10 Jul 94 08:10:43 EDT From: "T R. Young" <34LPF6T@CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU> Organization: Central Michigan University Subject: POSTMODERN RELIGION & THE NEW WORLD ORDER To: GRADUATE STUDENTS IN SOCIOLOGY WHAT FOLLOWS IS PART III OF A PAPER ON POSTMODERN RELIGION WHICH I WILL PRESENT AT THE WORLD CONGRESS IN GERMANY NEXT WEEK. THE PAPER IS ONE IN THE TRANSFORMING SOCIOLOGY SERIES OF THE RED FEATHER INSTITUTE FOR ADVANCED STUDIES IN SOCIOLOGY...WHICH OFFERS/SOLICITS ARTICLES FROM YOUNG SOCIOLOGISTS TOWARD EMANCIPATORY SOCIOLOGY: CRITICAL THEORY, AFFIRMATIVE POSTMODERN WORK, CLASS, RACE, GENDER OR CROSS CULTURAL STUDIES ON SOCIAL PROBLEMS, SOCIAL PSYCHOLOGY, LAW, RELIGION, HEALTH CARE OR CHAOS/COMPLEXITY THEORY. PART III: UNIVERSAL BEING AND SOCIAL JUSTICE: IN PARTS ONE AND TWO, I MADE A CASE THAT THE GLOBALIZATION OF COMMERCE, TRANS PORT, COMMUNICATIONS, INDUSTRY AND BANKING WOULD PRODUCE SOME 10-12 ECONOMIC BLOCS. STANDING AGAINST THIS VIEW IS THAT OF MANY WHO SEE A STRATIFIED WORLD ORDER EMERGING WITH THE BIG SEVEN AT THE TOP, THE NICs BELOW THAT AND A LOT OF 'UNDERDEVELOPED' NATIONS BELOW THAT. ALSO STANDING AGAINST THE IDEA OF BLOC FORMATION IS A VIEW THAT FRAGMENTATION AND ANARCHY WILL BE THE DOMINANT SOCIAL DYNAMIC AROUND THE WORLD...THE USA, FOR EXAMPLE, WILL FRAGMENT INTO 3-4 PARTS. PRESUMING BLOC FORMATION AND PRESUMING THAT THE GOD CONCEPT FOLLOWS, LOOSELY, THE OUTLINES OF THE DOMINANT POLITICAL ECONOMY, WE WILL SEE THE NATION-STATE DECLINING IN RELEVANCE FOR SELF AND SOCIAL JUSTICE...THE BLOC INCREASINGLY RELEVANT FOR BOTH ENCOMPASSING SOCIAL IDENTITY AND TRANSCENDENT SOCIAL JUSTICE. IIIA: MEASURES OF SOCIAL JUSTICE TO WATCH WITHIN AND BETWEEN BLOCS: 1. INFANT MORTALITY RATES 2. INEQUALITY RATIOS: CLASS, RACE, GENDER, INTERNATIONAL 3. THE LABOR PROCESS: JOB SECURITY, WORK-PLACE DEMOCRACY, PRO-SOCIAL JOBS 4. LITERACY RATES 5. SUICIDE, MORBIDITY RATES, ALCOHOL/DRUG DEPENDENCY RATES 6. CRIME RATES: STREET, CORPORATE, WHITE COLLAR, POLITICAL CRIME 7. QUALITY OF LIFE INDICATORS: ART, TRAVEL, MUSIC, CUISINE, PLAY 8. COMMUNAL RESOURCES: PARKS, PUBLIC SPACES, LANDSCAPE, STREET LIFE IIIB: REPOSITORIES OF MORALITY/TRANCENDENT CRITIQUE: 1. THE STATE & INSTITUTIONAL POLITICS 2. THE CHURCH, NEW AGE RELIGIONS, DRAMAS OF THE HOLY 3. SOCIAL MOVEMENTS AND NON-INSTITUTIONAL POLITICS 4. THE UNIVERSITY, MEDIA, JOURNALS, BOOKS, SYMPOSIA NEXT TIME: DRAMAS OF THE HOLY AND THE GEOMETRY OF 'UNIVERSAL BEING' COPIES OF THE PAPER IS AVAILABLE; REPLY WITH P.O. ADDRESS. NO TUTORIALS UNTIL 15 AUGUST. From socgrad-relay@UCSD.EDU Sun Jul 10 09:11:11 1994 sendmail 8.6.9/UCSD-2.2-sun Sun, 10 Jul 1994 09:09:02 -0700 for socgrad-list Sun, 10 Jul 1994 09:09:01 -0700 for Date: Sun, 10 Jul 94 11:02:41 CDT From: KLOSKY@vm1.nodak.edu Organization: North Dakota Higher Education Computer Network Subject: Re: POSTMODERN RELIGION & THE NEW WORLD ORDER To: "T R. Young" <34LPF6T@CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU>, GRADUATE STUDENTS IN SOCIOLOGY TR. As always, here I am to speak up in the back of the class... 1. There is still no EVIDENCE of your perdictions. The facts, or research as some might call them have not been presented. I was told to wait until today, at which time my concerns would be addressed. Maybe I missed it. I am always willing to except that I missed the boat. 2. What do you mean at teh end of your post "No tutorials until aug 15?" Does this mean that you are not available until then? If so, I feel like a reporter at a news conference. You provide information, but when asked to back it up, or explain parts, you say "No commment at this time." To a certain extent, this allienates mme from your work. SKEE From socgrad-relay@UCSD.EDU Mon Jul 11 07:14:07 1994 sendmail 8.6.9/UCSD-2.2-sun Mon, 11 Jul 1994 07:09:46 -0700 for socgrad-list Mon, 11 Jul 1994 07:09:44 -0700 for From: blyden.potts@um.cc.umich.edu Date: Mon, 11 Jul 94 10:07:52 EDT To: socgrad@UCSD.EDU Yes, where is the evidence to support the predictions, and where are even the arguments behind this idea of increasing identity with supernational regional blocs? Now I realize that two of the shared attributes on which this aggregation was suggested to occur are religion and language, but I look around the world (as presented via the media) and what I see looks a lot different: 1) there is some increasingly regional character to this identification as people come to realize that they are part of a larger world, and share a whole range of issues (for and against) that are tied to their sharing a geographic region, but this seems to me quite limited in scope, being supplemental to national, ethnic, religious and language identities rather than coalescing them or transcending them; 2) It seems that there remains considerable backlash against nationalism, since nationalism sometimes attempts to override other identifications. So you have Pakistan and Bangladesh, and you continue to have separatist movement in northern India; so you have the division of the USSR into its various "republics" and feuding between some of them; so you have the horrible events in the Balkans; so you have the Quebecois seeking divorce from Canada. Though what is occuring in the Euro "community" is of monumental significance, and the NAFTA and GATT talks suggest that these larger blocs are meaningful, I think it would prove quite interesting to survey people in various countries and see how aware they are of happenings in countries that are part of their 'bloc', and to what extent they identify with other nations in their bloc. Blyden From socgrad-relay@UCSD.EDU Mon Jul 11 10:02:12 1994 sendmail 8.6.9/UCSD-2.2-sun Mon, 11 Jul 1994 08:58:57 -0700 for socgrad-list Mon, 11 Jul 1994 08:58:51 -0700 for Date: Mon, 11 Jul 1994 10:58:49 -0500 (CDT) From: Peter Chua Subject: Re: your mail To: socgrad@UCSD.EDU While I do not want to justify T.R. Young's assertions, I believe that there is a connection between the growth in "nationalist"-based group identities and supernational bloc formation. An example would be the Chiapas revolt and NAFTA. The revolt resulted impart by the repressive actions of the Mexican government and further economic development planned for the region resulting from NATFA. It was an advantage for the indigenous women and men of Chiapas to invoke unrest and to call attention to their plight of poverty and repression as capitalists in North American further their capacity for extract profit. Similar struggles of Third World people against their nationalized economies have been going on since the end of WWII. Any formal or informal agreements of national State impacts the politics and social fabric of various people. Remember that one of the main projects of most of these post-colonial nations (like India, Philippines, ...) was to create a national unity (removing regional, local, ethnic, and religious interest). Now as nation-states make economic agreements about "free" trade and economic stability in the interest to maintain national social order (regulating health care, welfare, law and order, ...) primarily for capitalist growth (resulting in raising GNP and flexible corporate mobility), various marginalized groups (and even feudal-like groups like the Catholic/Christian Churches) will attempt to garner support, power and resources. Yet a sizable sector of Third World women work in low-paying jobs that are link with multinational corporations. These women continue to not have a voice and political resources to make changes locally, nationally, and internationally. Even in the U.S., labor union are changing strategies in response to NAFTA and GATT by attempting to form alliances with labor unions from other nations in the same trade. In summary, I think these supernational blocs like EC is not really about extending national identity thought they need to in order maintain themselves, but that they provide a new way to extend capital interest that where not previously possible. So the formation of these blocs further complicates the internal dynamics of each nation-state between various groups, communities, and people. A lot more quantitative (linking macro and micro events at various levels of aggregation) and qualitative studies (theoretical and empirical) need to occur. Maybe FRACTAL property of self- similarities can be found between the macro level and the micro level and further chaos and nonlinear social research. Peter Chua --------------------------- On Mon, 11 Jul 1994 blyden.potts@um.cc.umich.edu wrote: > divorce from Canada. Though what is occuring in the Euro "community" > is of monumental significance, and the NAFTA and GATT talks suggest > that these larger blocs are meaningful, I think it would prove quite > interesting to survey people in various countries and see how aware > they are of happenings in countries that are part of their 'bloc', > and to what extent they identify with other nations in their bloc. > > Blyden > From socgrad-relay@UCSD.EDU Mon Jul 11 11:58:20 1994 sendmail 8.6.9/UCSD-2.2-sun Mon, 11 Jul 1994 11:48:44 -0700 for socgrad-list Mon, 11 Jul 1994 11:48:36 -0700 for Date: Mon, 11 Jul 1994 11:38:32 -0700 (PDT) From: Jiannbin Lee Shiao Subject: Re: your mail To: Peter Chua On Mon, 11 Jul 1994, Peter Chua wrote: > A lot more quantitative (linking macro and micro > events at various levels of aggregation) and qualitative studies > (theoretical and empirical) need to occur. Maybe FRACTAL property of self- > similarities can be found between the macro level and the micro level and > further chaos and nonlinear social research. Hey Peter, good to see you on another mailing list! ;^) Question for folks who might know: What is chaos theory? Is it just (as someone critiqued T.R.Young's posts) philosophy with no empirical arguments? Does it just say "shit happens"? All I've seen are pretty computer graphics. Could someone recommend a nice (and short) piece of reading for me, one that stresses social science applications? Help! :) tha j'ster From socgrad-relay@UCSD.EDU Mon Jul 11 12:08:51 1994 sendmail 8.6.9/UCSD-2.2-sun Mon, 11 Jul 1994 12:01:57 -0700 for socgrad-list Mon, 11 Jul 1994 12:01:42 -0700 for Date: Mon, 11 Jul 1994 14:00:19 -0600 (CST) From: "crussell@utmem1.utmem.edu" Subject: Video for cultural/ethnic sensitivity To: socgrad@UCSD.EDU Is anyone familiar with a video that's designed to sensitize students to examining the way they look at differences between people? My colleague and I will be co-teaching a transcultural nursing course this fall and she seems to remember seeing a video (unknown title) that talked about groups of people as X and O. So, it apparently wasn't offensive to any particular cultural/ethnic group, as it dealt with how it felt to be the only "X" in a group of "Os" and things such as that. She believes it might have had a sociological bent to it. If anyone is familiar with this video, or know of other appropriate videos that sensitize students to cultural/ethnic differences, please email me at my address. If people are interested, I would be glad to compile a list of the responses sent to me by everyone and place them on the list for all to see. Thanks for your consideration. Cindy Russell crussell@utmem1.utmem.edu P.S. I am sending this request to several lists and apologize to those of you who may receive more than one copy. From socgrad-relay@UCSD.EDU Mon Jul 11 12:55:49 1994 sendmail 8.6.9/UCSD-2.2-sun Mon, 11 Jul 1994 12:50:11 -0700 for socgrad-list Mon, 11 Jul 1994 12:49:54 -0700 for Date: Mon, 11 Jul 94 15:32:05 EDT From: Steve Harvey Subject: Chaos Theory To: SOCGRAD@UCSD.EDU Chaos theory (related to catastrophe theory and complexity theory) is a branch of science which largely defies the "qualitative/quantitative" distinction. It emerged simultaneously in several disciplines (weather forcasting, physics, and pure mathematics) as a result of the counter-intuitive discovery that minute in-puts often have dramatic consequences in complex systems. This is referred to as "sensitive dependence on initial conditions", or, more poetically, as "the butterfly effect", invoking the image of a butterfly flapping its wings over China today precipitating storms over Madagascar next month. Of course, the basis of this phenomenon is simply non-linearity: feedback loops amplify the initial in-puts. The theory is rigorously mathematical, and increasingly empirical. The fact of chaotic phenomena has long been recognized, but was considered scientifically uninteresting since it could not be modeled. With the advent of computers, and mathematical innovations, this impasse has been penetrated. The enthusiasm from the scientific community is thus best understood as a sudden ability to explore MOST NATURAL PHENOMENA (which includes social phenomena), WHICH WERE PREVIOUSLY ANALYTICALLY INTRACTIBLE. Empirical phenomena which have become better understood through chaos theory include heart fibrulations, fissures in rocks, economic phenomena, and branching patterns in trees and in the veins of leaves. Most work in Chaos proper involves extremely sophisticated mathematics, though the theory has been coopted as a popularly invoked metaphor by many. This has its benefits, but also its costs, as many people consider it vague and indeterministic. Chaotic models are, in fact, still deterministic, but on a subtler (probabilistic) level of determinism. The best place to start is, without a doubt, James Gleich's lay-book on the subject, entitled "Chaos: Making a New Science". It is about 300 pages, and relatively easy reading. It is also a very comprehensive treatment of the origins and early development of the paradigm. Cheers, Steve harvey@uconnvm.uconn.edu From socgrad-relay@UCSD.EDU Mon Jul 11 13:52:43 1994 sendmail 8.6.9/UCSD-2.2-sun Mon, 11 Jul 1994 13:43:48 -0700 for socgrad-list Mon, 11 Jul 1994 13:43:45 -0700 for From: S-ENDER@bss1.umd.edu Mon, 11 Jul 94 16:43:44 +1100 Organization: University of Maryland,College Park To: socgrad@UCSD.EDU Date: Mon, 11 Jul 1994 16:43:13 EDT Subject: mailing address in riverside might someone know the e-mail address for bob hanneman at uc riverside? morten From socgrad-relay@UCSD.EDU Mon Jul 11 13:54:30 1994 sendmail 8.6.9/UCSD-2.2-sun Mon, 11 Jul 1994 13:47:34 -0700 for socgrad-list Mon, 11 Jul 1994 13:47:32 -0700 for Date: Mon, 11 Jul 1994 15:48:21 -0500 To: Jiannbin Lee Shiao , Peter Chua From: ghougham@medicine.bsd.uchicago.edu (Gavin Hougham) Subject: Re: your mail At 11:38 AM 7/11/94 -0700, Jiannbin Lee Shiao wrote: >Question for folks who might know: What is chaos theory? Is it just (as >someone critiqued T.R.Young's posts) philosophy with no empirical >arguments? Does it just say "shit happens"? All I've seen are pretty >computer graphics. Could someone recommend a nice (and short) piece of >reading for me, one that stresses social science applications? Help! :) > >tha j'ster I'm not a chaos theory acolyte, but you might find more there to interest you than you might at first imagine. I can't comment on T.R. Young's post, which seems to come out of a quasi-Marxist, vaguely Wallersteinian perspective. But Andy Abbott here at the U of C is hot on self-similarity in organizations and fractal patterning in various heirarchies. For example, take your basic occupational status heirarchy (you know, the one where you are at the bottom and the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court is on top). Abbott is arguing in part that addressing the unidimensionality vs multidimensionality question alone in occupational status work will not give us a "better scale." This work needs a major paradigm shift to take account of data that show that people have a FRACTAL VIEW of where they stand relative to local or distant occupational roles. The closer the relation the more "fine grained" is the attribution of status. As you progress "outwards" (my officemate, my colleagues down the hall, my boss, my boss's boss in the regional office, the president of the company in New York, the heads of other big companies, etc) the "graininess" of the attribution increases. You will make a very fine grained and subtle status distinction between yourself and your peers, but you will only be able to make coarser distinctions of occupational status between, say, the head of your company and the president of a major university. Abbott argues that this property of graininess is a property of fractal structures in general (remember the length of a coastline metaphor), and hence fractal structures can be argued to exist for social phenomena. I don't think you could argue that someone like Abbott just makes pretty pictures. One more quick reference on chaos: in the July issue of WIRED magazine, there is a very good interview with two chaos types with training in physics, who are applying the idea of local predictability in systems to the stock markets. They are making lots of money. One of the tenets, as I understand it, of chaos theory is that while we might have trouble predicting the long-term behavior of systems, or even specifying the system in question at all, we CAN find small pockets of predictability, and we CAN place winning bets on these local systems. These pockets of predictabiltiy may last for very brief periods of time then disappear in the whorl of complexity. If you have the number crunching ability to search for, and then act upon in real time, these local pockets of predictability, you can make money. You are applying a general search algorithm based on an epistemological starting point that chaotic-looking (and unpredictable) systems (e.g., the global flow of currency) will "in principle" be locally knowable for short periods of time. You won't know ahead of time where or when or how, you just have to be fast enough to spot it with your general search algorithm before it vanishes. (That line just reminded me of all those "crowd behavior" studies, no?) I think we'all in soc should be pretty DARNED interested in chaos/complexity as a potentially powerful set of ideas. How many general purpose "order" algorithms can WE name? They ain't just making pictures =(:^) Gavin Hougham --------------------------------------------------------------------- Gavin Hougham University of Chicago Department of Sociology 1126 East 59th Street Chicago, IL 60637 E-mail: gwh2@midway.uchicago.edu Office: Department of General Internal Medicine (312) 702-6735 From socgrad-relay@UCSD.EDU Mon Jul 11 14:23:59 1994 sendmail 8.6.9/UCSD-2.2-sun Mon, 11 Jul 1994 14:13:59 -0700 for socgrad-list Mon, 11 Jul 1994 14:13:54 -0700 for Date: Mon, 11 Jul 1994 15:13:43 -0600 (MDT) From: rebel palm aitchison Subject: Re: your mail To: Jiannbin Lee Shiao You could ask the chaospsych list which is a list of people interested in chaos theory in the social sciences. I subscribe. If you're interested, I can get you the listserv address. On Mon, 11 Jul 1994, Jiannbin Lee Shiao wrote: > On Mon, 11 Jul 1994, Peter Chua wrote: > > A lot more quantitative (linking macro and micro > > events at various levels of aggregation) and qualitative studies > > (theoretical and empirical) need to occur. Maybe FRACTAL property of self- > > similarities can be found between the macro level and the micro level and > > further chaos and nonlinear social research. > Hey Peter, good to see you on another mailing list! ;^) > Question for folks who might know: What is chaos theory? Is it just (as > someone critiqued T.R.Young's posts) philosophy with no empirical > arguments? Does it just say "shit happens"? All I've seen are pretty > computer graphics. Could someone recommend a nice (and short) piece of > reading for me, one that stresses social science applications? Help! :) > > tha j'ster > From socgrad-relay@UCSD.EDU Mon Jul 11 15:56:38 1994 sendmail 8.6.9/UCSD-2.2-sun Mon, 11 Jul 1994 15:50:12 -0700 for socgrad-list Mon, 11 Jul 1994 15:50:08 -0700 for Date: Mon, 11 Jul 1994 18:49:59 -0400 (EDT) From: Rudy ZALESAK Subject: Re: your mail To: Peter Chua Peter Chua writes, >A lot more quantitative (linking macro and micro >events at various levels of aggregation) and qualitative studies >(theoretical and empirical) need to occur. Maybe FRACTAL property of self- >similarities can be found between the macro level and the micro level and >further chaos and nonlinear social research. Harrison White's *Identity and Control* spends a lot of time on self-similarity in social structure. The mathematical analogies he uses in this regard come from physics (polymers, lattices, fractals) but not chaos theory as such. As I understand his remarks on the subject, he feels that at the moment these analogies are suggestive, rather than formally applicable. From socgrad-relay@UCSD.EDU Mon Jul 11 18:21:29 1994 sendmail 8.6.9/UCSD-2.2-sun Mon, 11 Jul 1994 18:16:18 -0700 for socgrad-list Mon, 11 Jul 1994 18:16:13 -0700 for Date: Mon, 11 Jul 1994 19:16:13 -0600 (MDT) From: rebel palm aitchison To: socgrad@UCSD.EDU For those of you who were interested in the chaos-psych discussion list, send your request to-- LISTPROC@MOOSE.UVM.EDU say SUB CHAOPSYC yourfirstname yourlastname These guys aren't just fooling around. There's some real interesting stuff on there, but most of it is way over my head so I just eavesdrop a lot and figure I'll catch on one of these days. They're VERY mathematical. Good luck. From socgrad-relay@UCSD.EDU Mon Jul 11 20:13:04 1994 sendmail 8.6.9/UCSD-2.2-sun Mon, 11 Jul 1994 20:11:42 -0700 for socgrad-list Mon, 11 Jul 1994 20:11:40 -0700 for Date: Mon, 11 Jul 1994 20:11:40 -0700 (PDT) From: MELISSA MONSON Subject: anonymous behavior To: socgrad@UCSD.EDU Hi all, I am doing some research which addresses the differences in the way we act when our identity is concealed. Basically, how does our behavior differ when we are anonymous. If anyone has any ideas on a starting point for my liturature review i would very much appriciate it. Please respond to my e-mail address: monson@nevada.edu. Thanks much! melissa monson@nevada.edu From socgrad-relay@UCSD.EDU Tue Jul 12 06:59:30 1994 sendmail 8.6.9/UCSD-2.2-sun Tue, 12 Jul 1994 06:57:42 -0700 for socgrad-list Tue, 12 Jul 1994 06:57:40 -0700 for Date: Tue, 12 Jul 1994 07:57:38 -0600 (MDT) From: rebel palm aitchison Subject: Re: anonymous behavior To: MELISSA MONSON Melissa, I read about a whole bunch of this stuff when I took a small groups dynamics course. You might try "group dynamics" as a keyword for a search in your library's soc sci index--hope you have it on CD-ROM, makes things a lot easier. I still have my textbook with references--there's apparently some classic studies by Zimbardo in 1969--if youlook up who cites him you'd probably get the more recent stuff. I don't know if "anonymity" would work as a keyword, but get the Classmate Thesaurus from your reference librarian. Even if you don't use Classmate itself, the keywords will probably work for the soc sci index as well. On Mon, 11 Jul 1994, MELISSA MONSON wrote: > Hi all, > > I am doing some research which addresses the differences in the way we > act when our identity is concealed. Basically, how does our behavior > differ when we are anonymous. If anyone has any ideas on a starting > point for my liturature review i would very much appriciate it. Please > respond to my e-mail address: monson@nevada.edu. Thanks much! > > melissa > monson@nevada.edu > > From socgrad-relay@UCSD.EDU Tue Jul 12 12:27:47 1994 sendmail 8.6.9/UCSD-2.2-sun Tue, 12 Jul 1994 12:21:40 -0700 for socgrad-list Tue, 12 Jul 1994 12:21:37 -0700 for From: S-LMARTIN@bss1.umd.edu Tue, 12 Jul 94 15:21:35 +1100 Organization: University of Maryland,College Park To: socgrad@UCSD.EDU Date: Tue, 12 Jul 1994 15:21:12 EDT Subject: Please help: Am looking for citations in research literature that answer the question "does the motivation to work vary by social class?"...thanx, Lee Martin U. of Maryland s-lmartin@bss1.umd.edu From socgrad-relay@UCSD.EDU Tue Jul 12 14:45:32 1994 sendmail 8.6.9/UCSD-2.2-sun Tue, 12 Jul 1994 14:37:54 -0700 for socgrad-list Tue, 12 Jul 1994 14:37:52 -0700 for Date: Tue, 12 Jul 1994 15:37:51 -0600 (MDT) From: rebel palm aitchison Subject: chaos-psych list To: Christine Overdevest send SUB CHAOPSYC message to LISTPROC@MOOSE.UVM.EDU I'd say 6-7 posts a day average. On Tue, 12 Jul 1994, Christine Overdevest wrote: > I'm interested in the list. Can you forward the address and note the number of > posts per day... Thanks, CO > From socgrad-relay@UCSD.EDU Tue Jul 12 19:23:46 1994 sendmail 8.6.9/UCSD-2.2-sun Tue, 12 Jul 1994 19:18:18 -0700 for socgrad-list Tue, 12 Jul 1994 19:18:16 -0700 for Date: Tue, 12 Jul 1994 20:18:15 -0600 (MDT) From: rebel palm aitchison Subject: Let's see what we can stir up... To: socgrad This list has been much too quiet lately.... Okay, I have a question. Whoever killed Nicole Simpson and Goldman did so with a knife. A fairly long one according to the coroner, not your little ol' Swiss Army knife like the one I keep on my key chain. And if OJ did do it with the knife he bought at that cutlery store, does that mean we will now have a Simpson Knife Bill in congress requiring a one week waiting period before anyone can purchase a carving knife for Thanksgiving? And all this notoriety that spouse abuse is now getting--most of it as I understand is done with fists or sticks or other pieces of furniture handy around the house? How will we control the proliferation of these "weapons"? From socgrad-relay@UCSD.EDU Tue Jul 12 20:46:53 1994 sendmail 8.6.9/UCSD-2.2-sun Tue, 12 Jul 1994 20:41:54 -0700 for socgrad-list Tue, 12 Jul 1994 20:41:51 -0700 for Subject: Re: Let's see what we can stir up... To: rpalm@unm.edu (rebel palm aitchison) Date: Tue, 12 Jul 1994 22:41:49 -0500 (CDT) From: "John J. Maurer" > > This list has been much too quiet lately.... > Okay, I have a question. Whoever killed Nicole Simpson and Goldman did > so with a knife. A fairly long one according to the coroner, not your > little ol' Swiss Army knife like the one I keep on my key chain. And if > OJ did do it with the knife he bought at that cutlery store, does that > mean we will now have a Simpson Knife Bill in congress requiring a one week > waiting period before anyone can purchase a carving knife for Thanksgiving? > And all this notoriety that spouse abuse is now getting--most of it as I > understand is done with fists or sticks or other pieces of furniture > handy around the house? How will we control the proliferation of these > "weapons"? > A weapon is legally considered to be any object used to cause harm or pain upon a person. This definition, of course, is written quite loosely BUT, it is more than adequate for this discussion. I must admit the following proposition was influenced by the syndicated newspaper columnest Royko a couple of years back (during the whole Clarence Thomas spiel) he spoke of a glare being perceived as a form of sexual harrassment. Since eyes and the face are objects, could we inflict emotional harm onto someone's person. Could this be abuse? Would it hold? Would the game CLUE@ have to add eyes or a glare to it's plastic figurines of weapons? I know all this is stupid but it is a thought. From socgrad-relay@UCSD.EDU Wed Jul 13 07:41:54 1994 sendmail 8.6.9/UCSD-2.2-sun Wed, 13 Jul 1994 07:35:33 -0700 for socgrad-list Wed, 13 Jul 1994 07:35:27 -0700 for Date: Wed, 13 Jul 1994 10:35:22 -0400 (EDT) From: Rudy ZALESAK Subject: Re: Let's see what we can stir up... To: rebel palm aitchison On Tue, 12 Jul 1994, rebel palm aitchison wrote: > ... does that > mean we will now have a Simpson Knife Bill in congress requiring a one week > waiting period before anyone can purchase a carving knife for Thanksgiving? > And all this notoriety that spouse abuse is now getting--most of it as I > understand is done with fists or sticks or other pieces of furniture > handy around the house? How will we control the proliferation of these > "weapons"? > Reducing the number of means of suicide has been shown to reduce the number of suicides; people do not act as though any means of suicide can be substituted for any other. If this is also true for other violent acts, reducing the availability of guns, say, will reduce spousal abuse with guns without increasing spousal abuse by other means. At a practical level, guns are the obvious target of control, since they have no use other than as weapons. It is true, as rebel suggests, that controlling guns will not solve the problem of spouse abuse. But in an article this morning in USAtoday(tm) on other women killed this year by husbands/boyfriends, most were killed by guns. I realize that is only a small sample though. Rudy Zalesak From socgrad-relay@UCSD.EDU Wed Jul 13 08:41:56 1994 sendmail 8.6.9/UCSD-2.2-sun Wed, 13 Jul 1994 08:38:04 -0700 for socgrad-list Wed, 13 Jul 1994 08:37:59 -0700 for Date: Wed, 13 Jul 94 11:01:08 EDT From: Steve Harvey Subject: means and ends To: SOCGRAD@UCSD.EDU Though I don't think that Rebel was trying to invoke the adage "guns don't kill; people do", her words bring it to mind. The implication of that adage is that the solutions to social problems lie in (and only in) the transformation of individuals from morally imperfect to morally perfect beings. Forget the structures within which they reside, and the relative availability of tools of destruction. The issue is "good" people and "bad" people, and punishing the latter will insure the victory or the former. Of all banes that plague the human condition, I find this one to be most odious of all. If there is a lesson to be learned from the OJ case, it is that heroes and villains occupy the same bodies, and that the real challenge facing us is not to sort them out as individuals (since they are not individuals, but rather aspects of individuals), but rather to produce contexts which facilitate one and discourage the other. Less easy access to guns discourages the use of guns (in the physical, not psychological, sense). Similarly, when we contemplate social policy, we should never assume that people will act nobly; we should always assume that they will not. Some will, some won't, but the former pose no threat to a well-intentioned policy, while the latter do. So it is toward the realization of the latter that policies must be directed. This is why I have been such an unrelenting advocate of bringing microeconomic logic (i.e., "rational choice") into both our theorizing and our policy design efforts. I do not believe that it is the whole story, but I do believe that it is both an essential element of the story, and a remarkably useful tool. In terms of policy, assume that everyone will act in their own individual interest, and seek to design and implement policies which align individual interests with collective well-being. If individuals are at times tempted to shoot people, though the fear and suffering engendered are certainly a tremendous "public bad", then it makes sense to deprive ourselves of the means for doing so. (the fact that "shooting people" may not seem to be in the objective self-interest of the shooter is irrelevant here. In most RC theoriz- ing, preferences are exogenous, that is, externally given. We need not explain them. This is why I believe that a very powerful theoretical synthesis could be fostered by marrying a sociology of knowledge approach to an RC or stochastic learning approach, thus explaining both the formation of preferences, and the dynamics of strategic interaction upon those preferences). Though the astute reader will wonder, "Ah, but do people even act on preferences at all, or do they act according to other forces, such as blind rage, or loyalty, or other passions?", it is also possible to step back from both the RC and stochastic learning approaches, and take a broader evolutionary approach, in which individual strategies are not necessarily consciously controlled. I believe I have commented here before on the evolutionary ration- ality of seemingly irrational behavior ("irrational" emotional responses are perhaps the microsocial manifestation of Durkheim's "precontractural solidarity"). Anyway, just a few thoughts. -steve From socgrad-relay@UCSD.EDU Wed Jul 13 11:15:11 1994 sendmail 8.6.9/UCSD-2.2-sun Wed, 13 Jul 1994 11:13:14 -0700 for socgrad-list Wed, 13 Jul 1994 11:13:11 -0700 for From: Jeremy Straughn Subject: RC theory and domestic violence To: socgrad@UCSD.EDU Date: Wed, 13 Jul 94 13:13:08 CDT Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85] Steve has given his pep talk for economistic models of action at least three or four times in the last month. Yet he never answered my solicitation to _demonstrate_, rather than simply assert, their usefulness. Furthermore, what he describes in his post of 7/13 is not a theory as such but merely the guidelines for one: that it should make reference to the "self-interest" of the actors as the principle of action. In these terms, the concept "self-interest," as I have noted before, seems to have little to do with egoism in the usual sense, since it can be applied without contradiction to people acting generously, self-sacrificially, etc. The egoism component amounts to little more than a principle of methodological individualism, i.e. that we should be looking at individuals rather than groups for the source of motivations (principles of action), and it entails the claim that people, or their genes (in the evolutionary model), or their unconscious (in psychoanalytic models) guide action according to deterministic or probabilistic formulae that, if discovered, lead to accurate predictions of future behavior. Steve further suggests that a sociology of knowledge could help to determine what goes into such "utility functions." (This is something that sociologists since the early Talcott Parsons have hoped for but for some reason never achieved.) If this is an accurate description of "rational choice" theory (I would prefer to call it "rational _action_ theory," since the element of choice seems to be eliminated by chaining action to preferences and drives), then have the following questions: (1) To identify preferences, you have to observe past ones. Can RC theory actually make accurate predictions about future actions, or does it simply claim to "explain" people's motives after the fact? (2) In a concrete example such as guns and domestic violence, how would a policy based on RC theory differ from any other? Steve, let's see if you can deliver this time. Jeremy S. strau@cicero.spc.uchicago.edu From socgrad-relay@UCSD.EDU Wed Jul 13 12:07:02 1994 sendmail 8.6.9/UCSD-2.2-sun Wed, 13 Jul 1994 12:04:50 -0700 for socgrad-list Wed, 13 Jul 1994 12:04:30 -0700 for Date: Wed, 13 Jul 1994 20:04:26 +0100 To: socgrad@UCSD.EDU From: D.W.Weatherston@newcastle.ac.uk (David Weatherston) Subject: address of university of arizona I am attempting to contact Doug McAdam who I understand is at the faculty of sociology, university of arizona. Could someone advise me on the email or slowmail address of either Doug McAdam and/or the university of Arizona. Thanks in advance, David Weatherston. From socgrad-relay@UCSD.EDU Wed Jul 13 14:36:00 1994 sendmail 8.6.9/UCSD-2.2-sun Wed, 13 Jul 1994 14:34:18 -0700 for socgrad-list Wed, 13 Jul 1994 14:34:13 -0700 for Date: Wed, 13 Jul 94 17:29:14 EDT From: Steve Harvey Subject: groundhogs To: SOCGRAD@UCSD.EDU Jeremy- Just when I thought it was safe to swim again! Actually, I read the first couple of lines of your post, and then deleted the rest unread. No offense; it's not that there was anything particularly inappropriate about your post. I'm just generally fed up with all of the fencing, posturing, and otherwise stutting about that we are trained to do. Watch a sunset and sip a glass of sherry; it does wonders for one's perspective. -Steve From socgrad-relay@UCSD.EDU Wed Jul 13 17:41:45 1994 sendmail 8.6.9/UCSD-2.2-sun Wed, 13 Jul 1994 17:40:15 -0700 for socgrad-list Wed, 13 Jul 1994 17:40:14 -0700 for Date: Wed, 13 Jul 1994 18:40:08 -0600 (MDT) From: rebel palm aitchison Subject: Re: means and ends To: Steve Harvey Actually, Steve, I agree with most of what you said...I think. I can see how the "guns don't kill people, people do" adage came to your mind, but that wasn't really my concern. What I am concerned with is the overweening dependence this society has on passing laws to prevent behaviors. As John Maurer noted, now a look can be a basis for a charge of sexual harassment. Do we really believe as a society that law is a substitute for...for what? what would be better than law for preventing abuse, intolerance, harassment? I'm not a Libertarian...yet, but damn it, sometimes I think I'm getting there when I keep hearing every day about some law or ordinance being passed to solve some problem like prejudice or abuse. Passing civil rights legislation didn't "solve" prejudice (although I do think it got some people who might not otherwise have thought about the consequences of prejudice to look at it). Really...what purpose does law serve in preventing these kinds of crimes? Law as deterrent is highly questionable, I've heard, from current sociologists of law. It might (emphasize MIGHT) succeed in getting perpetrators incarcerated, but does it solve the problem at its core? Is it possible to "solve" the problem, or will impulsive animalistic irrationality (sorry, don't mean to malign the animals here) always require that we threaten to imprison violators of reason? BTW, I watched almost all of the preliminary hearing. Did anyone else? I thought it was fascinating. How tedious is the process of law! I watched it as a process that has evolved in our society..and how it represents what we feel is necessary to assure protection of the innocent, and especially constitutional questions, how they are still in reaction to what we feared the British would do to us 200+ years ago! It's the historian in me, which was my undergraduate major. Maybe OJ's innocent, maybe not, but the process itself is a mirror of our society, I think. From socgrad-relay@UCSD.EDU Wed Jul 13 19:48:57 1994 sendmail 8.6.9/UCSD-2.2-sun Wed, 13 Jul 1994 19:48:06 -0700 for socgrad-list Wed, 13 Jul 1994 19:48:04 -0700 for From: Jeremy Straughn Subject: re: groundhogs To: socgrad@UCSD.EDU Date: Wed, 13 Jul 94 21:48:01 CDT Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85] Steve, OUCH--That hurt! I'm sorry you construed my last post (and all previous ones?) as posturing, etc. I assure you my posts have been sincere, not just for show. But am I alone in feeling my skin crawl every time someone gives three cheers for good old RC theory for no particular, or helpful, reason? Give it a rest with that stuff! Or else show us why we should keep listening to you when you bring it up. ;-) Jeremy S. strau@cicero.spc.uchicago.edu [Steve wrote: Jeremy- Just when I thought it was safe to swim again! Actually, I read the first couple of lines of your post, and then deleted the rest unread. No offense; it's not that there was anything particularly inappropriate about your post. I'm just generally fed up with all of the fencing, posturing, and otherwise stutting about that we are trained to do. Watch a sunset and sip a glass of sherry; it does wonders for one's perspective. -Steve] From socgrad-relay@UCSD.EDU Wed Jul 13 20:29:24 1994 sendmail 8.6.9/UCSD-2.2-sun Wed, 13 Jul 1994 20:28:38 -0700 for socgrad-list Wed, 13 Jul 1994 20:28:36 -0700 for Date: Wed, 13 Jul 1994 23:28:02 -0400 (EDT) From: Rudy ZALESAK Subject: Re: means and ends To: rebel palm aitchison On Wed, 13 Jul 1994, rebel palm aitchison wrote: > Passing civil rights legislation didn't "solve" prejudice > (although I do think it got some people who might not otherwise have > thought about the consequences of prejudice to look at it). Was the intent of civil rights legislation to change the minds of bigots? I don't think so. The legislation was intended (among other things) to open public facilities to blacks. That has happened. - Rudy From socgrad-relay@UCSD.EDU Wed Jul 13 20:58:10 1994 sendmail 8.6.9/UCSD-2.2-sun Wed, 13 Jul 1994 20:57:00 -0700 for socgrad-list Wed, 13 Jul 1994 20:56:58 -0700 for Date: Wed, 13 Jul 1994 23:56:55 -0400 (EDT) From: Rudy ZALESAK Subject: Re: Let's see what we can stir up... To: S-ENDER@bss1.umd.edu On Wed, 13 Jul 1994 S-ENDER@bss1.umd.edu wrote: > i read reducing hand-gun spouse abuse by bannishing guns as > technologically determining and ephemeral...the focus should not be > the means (guns) but the root social causes; but beyond this, i think > it is only a matter of time before abuse would taper-off and return to > its pre-banned gun days number through other means... > > morten To the extent one can imagine a "measure" of overall spouse abuse (say, "all couples in an abusive relationship/all couples", disregarding problems in defining "abusive" and "couples"), I am willing to believe that banning guns would not decrease this measure. But if one takes the more limited goal of reducing fatalities, banning guns seems to make sense (as it does indeed in general). Even if my guess about non-substitution is not correct, the "other means" of abuse are more survivable. Rudy From socgrad-relay@ucsd.edu Wed Jul 13 21:09:34 1994 sendmail 8.6.9/UCSD-2.2-sun Wed, 13 Jul 1994 10:41:53 -0700 for socgrad-list Wed, 13 Jul 1994 10:41:50 -0700 for From: S-ENDER@bss1.umd.edu Wed, 13 Jul 94 13:41:39 +1100 Organization: University of Maryland,College Park To: Rudy ZALESAK , socgrad Date: Wed, 13 Jul 1994 13:41:09 EDT Subject: Re: Let's see what we can stir up... >Reducing the number of means of >suicide has been shown to reduce the number of suicides; people do >not act as though any means of suicide can be substituted for any >other. >If this is also true for other violent acts, reducing the >availability of guns, say, will reduce spousal abuse with guns >without increasing spousal abuse by other means. rudy, i read reducing hand-gun spouse abuse by bannishing guns as technologically determining and ephemeral...the focus should not be the means (guns) but the root social causes; but beyond this, i think it is only a matter of time before abuse would taper-off and return to its pre-banned gun days number through other means... morten From socgrad-relay@ucsd.edu Wed Jul 13 21:14:14 1994 sendmail 8.6.9/UCSD-2.2-sun Wed, 13 Jul 1994 14:15:31 -0700 for socgrad-list Wed, 13 Jul 1994 14:15:13 -0700 for Date: Wed, 13 Jul 94 16:55 EDT From: "I don't think this will reduce confusion" Subject: Re: Nationalism (No header on original) To: blyden.potts@um.cc.umich.edu >identities rather than coalescing them or transcending them; 2) It >seems that there remains considerable backlash against nationalism, >since nationalism sometimes attempts to override other identifications. >So you have Pakistan and Bangladesh, and you continue to have separatist >movement in northern India; so you have the division of the USSR into >its various "republics" and feuding between some of them; so you have >the horrible events in the Balkans; so you have the Quebecois seeking >divorce from Canada. Though what is occuring in the Euro "community" >is of monumental significance, and the NAFTA and GATT talks suggest "Nationalism" is the driving force behind the conflicts that you mention above. What seems to be occuring is a backlash against the notion of a "state" in the form of a multi-nation collectivity. Or to put another way: "Nations" are collections of people united primarily through ethnicity, blood-lines, and to a lesser extent, language, customs, and religion. Czechoslovskia, the Soviet Union, and many of the African "states" are undergoing revolutions precisely because the state was an artifical construct forced upon the inhabitants by some outside power and current world trends seem be causing these artifical states to break into their constituent nations. I would argue that nationalism is on the rise across the globe. Whether it is a strong and pervasive enough force to blunt or reverse the penetrating, disrupting and yet uniting aspects of western capitalsim is an open question. Jetaway (just back from a Catholic / Luthern wedding in the Catholicst city in the United States... go figure) Dave From socgrad-relay@UCSD.EDU Thu Jul 14 06:22:59 1994 sendmail 8.6.9/UCSD-2.2-sun Thu, 14 Jul 1994 06:22:09 -0700 for socgrad-list Thu, 14 Jul 1994 06:22:05 -0700 for Date: Thu, 14 Jul 94 09:20 EDT From: "I don't think this will reduce confusion" Subject: Re: means and ends To: SOCGRAD@UCSD.EDU >Really...what purpose does law serve in preventing these kinds of >crimes? Law as deterrent is highly questionable, I've heard, from >current sociologists of law. It might (emphasize MIGHT) succeed in >getting perpetrators incarcerated, but does it solve the problem at its >core? Is it possible to "solve" the problem, or will impulsive >animalistic irrationality (sorry, don't mean to malign the animals here) >always require that we threaten to imprison violators of reason? In introductory criminology I distinguish between two types of deterrence, absolute and marginal. Absolute deterrence refers to the criminalization of previously legal behaviors or a large increase in the sanction attached to a criminal behavior. Examples of absolute deterrence would include laws against child abuse (used to be "corporal punishment"), drunk driving (increased penalties, but also has a large non-legal social component), and prohibition. By and large, absolute deterrence "works" if the goal is a reduction in prevelence of a behavior. Instances of absolute deterrence are very rare in American society primarily because there is already (and has existed for some time) laws prohibiting most forms of onerous behavior. Marginal deterrence refers to incremental increases in the severity of a sanction or the criminalization of a specific behavior which is very close to an already illegal behavior. Examples include the death penalty versus life imprisonment and ethnic intimitadion statutes. Marginal deterrence appears to have little, if any effect, on behavior. >BTW, I watched almost all of the preliminary hearing. Did anyone else? >I thought it was fascinating. How tedious is the process of law! I >watched it as a process that has evolved in our society..and how it >represents what we feel is necessary to assure protection of the >innocent, and especially constitutional questions, how they are still in >reaction to what we feared the British would do to us 200+ years ago! >It's the historian in me, which was my undergraduate major. Maybe OJ's >innocent, maybe not, but the process itself is a mirror of our society, I >think. The O.J. preliminary hearing is an extreme example of how the law works. Most preliminary hearings, even for homicide cases, last no more than one hour and are considered, in the lingo, "routine crimes." It is, and unless OJ cops a plea, will be a fascinating demonstration of how the law works. Analogies to gladitorial combat come to mind. On one side you have the LA district attorneys office, which despite losing the Powell and Mendenez cases, is a highly regarded outfit. On the other side you have some of the absolute top specialists in their fields. Bailey, orator supreme. Dershowitz and his minions (and no doubt law students) exploring constiutional issues. Unesend ?, another constituional scholar with expertise in California law and Shapiro coordinating it all. Jetaway Dave From socgrad-relay@UCSD.EDU Thu Jul 14 07:55:20 1994 sendmail 8.6.9/UCSD-2.2-sun Thu, 14 Jul 1994 07:54:20 -0700 for socgrad-list Thu, 14 Jul 1994 07:54:18 -0700 for From: blyden.potts@um.cc.umich.edu Date: Thu, 14 Jul 94 10:50:38 EDT To: CGH2@psuvm.psu.edu Subject: nationalism Fair enough. If nationalism is identification through ethnicity, blood, language, custom and religion then it may very well be ascendant. I wonder only two things: One, what term shall we use to indicate identification with the state or with larger aggregates? This is really what the 'bloc' discussion is about... Two, in what way is nationalism distinct from ethnicism, racism, cultural centrism, localism, et cetera; or is it just an agglomeration of these various 'isms'? If to use a hypothetical example, a group of related individuals (say a few hundred in number) occupying a close local area were to attempt secession from the U.S., could we argue that their motivation was nationalistic? In short, where I previously had an idea that nationalism was associated with nations (or at least potential nations) -- not denying that nationalism built upon foundations of shared culture (incl. religion, language, belief, social contexts), but with attachment to an object 'nation' -- you have now given me a concept which seems quite undefined. Could you resolve this for me please? Blyden From socgrad-relay@UCSD.EDU Thu Jul 14 09:15:21 1994 sendmail 8.6.9/UCSD-2.2-sun Thu, 14 Jul 1994 09:14:01 -0700 for socgrad-list Thu, 14 Jul 1994 09:13:59 -0700 for Date: Thu, 14 Jul 1994 10:13:20 -0600 (MDT) From: rebel palm aitchison Subject: Re: means and ends To: "I don't think this will reduce confusion" The gladiatorial analogy is what came to my mind also when I watched it. I've watched attorneys work before (having worked for them off and on for 15 years) and the process has always amused me (disabusing me of any illusions I may have had)--how very little of it has to do with "truth" or "right" or sometimes even "justice". Most of it has to do with who can make the best argument (i.e. who is the most adept gladiator). But to watch all the interactions between judge, attorneys, witnesses as a "process" is an opportunity most of us don't get. I know most of them don't last this long, but what an educational experience to have access to watching it!! On Thu, 14 Jul 1994, I don't think this will reduce confusion wrote: > Analogies to gladitorial combat come to mind. On one side you have the LA > district attorneys office, which despite losing the Powell and Mendenez cases, > is a highly regarded outfit. On the other side you have some of the absolute > top specialists in their fields. Bailey, orator supreme. Dershowitz and his > minions (and no doubt law students) exploring constiutional issues. Unesend ?, > another constituional scholar with expertise in California law and Shapiro > coordinating it all. > > Jetaway Dave > From socgrad-relay@UCSD.EDU Thu Jul 14 09:27:26 1994 sendmail 8.6.9/UCSD-2.2-sun Thu, 14 Jul 1994 09:25:47 -0700 for socgrad-list Thu, 14 Jul 1994 09:25:46 -0700 for Date: Thu, 14 Jul 1994 12:23 EDT From: SCOTT BLAKE Subject: Re: Nationalism To: socgrad@UCSD.EDU For a truly brilliant theory of nationalism see: Anderson, Benedict. _Imagined Communities_ From socgrad-relay@UCSD.EDU Thu Jul 14 10:04:16 1994 sendmail 8.6.9/UCSD-2.2-sun Thu, 14 Jul 1994 09:59:25 -0700 for socgrad-list Thu, 14 Jul 1994 09:59:23 -0700 for Date: Thu, 14 Jul 94 12:32:53 EDT From: Steve Harvey Subject: meanderings To: SOCGRAD@UCSD.EDU Opting out of a paradigmatic debate, and also declining to comment on the motivation and texture of the invitation, here are some general thoughts: Sociology is a multi-paradigmatic discipline, with allegiances based on various combinations of political, aesthetic, analytic, and descriptive concerns. Personally, I'm glad that it's multiparadigmatic at this point, because no one paradigm yet "does it all" better than any other. I came into sociology as a back-up to my deeper interest in writing fiction. I had traveled extensively, and had sampled an unusual variety of life's little niches along the way. In sociology, I explored first Marxist structural- ism, progressed to the Frankfurt School, on to post modernism, and for the past three years have focused much (though not all) of my energy on rational choice. I had never encountered RC until my third semester in grad school; RC did not have a section in the ASA until this year; and I have encountered wide-spread knee-jerk opposition to it virtually everywhere but in the company of its established practitioners. So, the rhetorical ploy of labelling it "good ol' RC", as though it is the conventional dogma bright and energetic souls would debunk, is really quite a red herring. Actually, sociology defined itself virtually in opposition to RC, by claiming that social phenomena must be understood as facts unto themselves, not by recourse to methodological individualism. Of course, this definition is basically the definition of functionalism, and RC is a response to the functionalism implicit in almost all traditional sociology (whether Marxist or mainstream). Once again, I should emphasize that I'm not as attached to RC as my posts would indicate. I defend it because it is so widely reviled. It offers certain benefits at certain costs, just as any paradigm does. For me, with my interest in synthesizing the best of the disparate threads of the field, it recommends itself as a form of analysis to be included. Some of the most sophisticated and compelling analyses of life (human and other) I have encountered have been variations of this form of analysis (e.g., evolutionary biology and natural history, as well as virtually the entire discipline of economics, and economic history). I see potential syntheses with Foucault, with Critical Theory, with symbolic interactionism and dramaturgy, with Marxism, with general systems theory, with network analysis, and with Chaos theory. It offers a mathematical system of analysis of underlying dynamics, and dynamics is what the discipline has been weakest in illuminating. I read what people post (though I have taken to deleting more and more unread), and post my own thoughts in return. That is all the justification I need to express my thoughts and offer my comments. Cheers, Steve From socgrad-relay@UCSD.EDU Thu Jul 14 13:06:51 1994 sendmail 8.6.9/UCSD-2.2-sun Thu, 14 Jul 1994 13:05:14 -0700 for socgrad-list Thu, 14 Jul 1994 13:05:07 -0700 for Date: Thu, 14 Jul 94 16:00 EDT From: "I don't think this will reduce confusion" Subject: Re: nationalism To: blyden.potts@um.cc.umich.edu I'll give it a whirl (to your last question) >Fair enough. If nationalism is identification through ethnicity, blood, >language, custom and religion then it may very well be ascendant. I >wonder only two things: One, what term shall we use to indicate >identification with the state or with larger aggregates? This is really >what the 'bloc' discussion is about... Interesting question. I would say nationalism but that would seem to contradict myself. "Statism" is already taken and refers to a different concept. How about "patriotism" as adherence to a state and nationalism as adherence to a nation? Maybe. Maybe part of the problem with the stablity of modern states is that there is no one simple term or concept which can unify the country. What does it mean to be an American (United States Citizen)? Many things, and a much greater variety of things than to be an English, French, German, Japanese, Korean, or Chinese. To backtrack a little. Some nations can be states (England but not Great Brittan, France, China, Russia, but not the Soviet Union) which are usually referred to as nation-states. There can be nations without a state. There are certainly nations of indigenous peoples in the America's, none however, are states. It is perhaps no accident that when periods of nativism occurs (Germany and the United States, 1930s for example), the rallying cry is framed in terms of nationalism and specifically excludes the "others" (i.e., jews, blacks, mexicans, gypsies, catholics) from inclusion in the revitalized sense of 'nation.' >Two, in what way is nationalism distinct from ethnicism, racism, >cultural centrism, localism, et cetera; or is it just an agglomeration >of these various 'isms'? If to use a hypothetical example, a group of >related individuals (say a few hundred in number) occupying a close local >area were to attempt secession from the U.S., could we argue that their >motivation was nationalistic? In short, where I previously had an idea Lets see what kind of corner I can paint myself into here. 1) Nationalism is distinct from ... et cetra. 2) Nationalism is more than an agglomeration of ... et cetra. Neatly bypassing what is meant by agglomeration in the present discussion. 3) Lets say that "nationalism" differes in that it exists to advance the interests or defend the interests of the nation vis a vis other groups (including nations, states, ethnic groups). I would propose that while ethnicism, racism, cultural centrism, localism, etc, can be used to advance the interests of the included group, it is not necessary. The rhetoric, if not the actuality, of racial seperatism is to have _nothng_ to do with memebers of the 'other' races. Thus, racial seperatists could be said to be indifferent to other groups, and indeed the well-being of their own group except on the one dimension of seperation from other races. Yes, one could argue that their secession attempt is nationalistic. A recent example would be the Mohawk nation fighting for independence (mainly economic, but shots were fired) from the Canadian state. I don't think it would apply to the Branch Davidians, but someone may wish to strech the argument. In general, a stable state's response to secession attemtps will involve force to prevent the secession. An unstable states may say (a la late Soviet Union), in effect, "don't let the door hit you on your butt." >that nationalism was associated with nations (or at least potential >nations) -- not denying that nationalism built upon foundations of >shared culture (incl. religion, language, belief, social contexts), >but with attachment to an object 'nation' -- you have now given me >a concept which seems quite undefined. Could you resolve this for me >please? I gave it a shot. All opinions and observations subject to change. Jetaway Dave From socgrad-relay@UCSD.EDU Thu Jul 14 16:11:17 1994 sendmail 8.6.9/UCSD-2.2-sun Thu, 14 Jul 1994 16:09:39 -0700 for socgrad-list Thu, 14 Jul 1994 16:09:36 -0700 for Subject: Means and ends To: rpalm@unm.edu (rebel palm aitchison) Date: Thu, 14 Jul 1994 18:09:28 -0500 (CDT) From: "John J. Maurer" > > Actually, Steve, I agree with most of what you said...I think. I can see > how the "guns don't kill people, people do" adage came to your mind, but > that wasn't really my concern. What I am concerned with is the > overweening dependence this society has on passing laws to prevent > behaviors. As John Maurer noted, now a look can be a basis for a charge > of sexual harassment. Do we really believe as a society that law is a > substitute for...for what? what would be better than law for preventing > abuse, intolerance, harassment? I'm not a Libertarian...yet, but damn it, > sometimes I think I'm getting there when I keep hearing every day about > some law or ordinance being passed to solve some problem like prejudice or > abuse. Passing civil rights legislation didn't "solve" prejudice > (although I do think it got some people who might not otherwise have > thought about the consequences of prejudice to look at it). Hi Rebel! Being prejudice ISN'T a crime. Descrimination of many kinds is since the passing of civil rights legislation. You're correct in your main point though Rebel, laws and the criminal justice system of the United States don't SOLVE any of our social problems. It does occassionally enforce a minute amount of deterrence BUT mostly it forces the illegal activity underground. In fact, Laws create crimes. If drugs weren't illegal there would be no crime in shooting heroin. I know there are some universal constant no no's but even murder can be argued to be non-universal among some societies. None of this isn't to say that laws aren't necessary or useful. Without laws a huge bureaucratic society such as ours couldn't hardly function. But, it is quite another story when considering criminal law. We (the U.S.) have seemed to make every possible thing that happens illegal. I mean kids can't even circle a damn street in their cars without getting arrested or receiving a fine. We tend to find what many consider to be a problem and just create a bill instead of finding the true source and true solutions to such problems. Gotta go, pizza is calling! BTW: They should really make a law against late, cold pizzas. > Really...what purpose does law serve in preventing these kinds of > crimes? Law as deterrent is highly questionable, I've heard, from > current sociologists of law. It might (emphasize MIGHT) succeed in > getting perpetrators incarcerated, but does it solve the problem at its > core? Is it possible to "solve" the problem, or will impulsive > animalistic irrationality (sorry, don't mean to malign the animals here) > always require that we threaten to imprison violators of reason? > > BTW, I watched almost all of the preliminary hearing. Did anyone else? > I thought it was fascinating. How tedious is the process of law! I > watched it as a process that has evolved in our society..and how it > represents what we feel is necessary to assure protection of the > innocent, and especially constitutional questions, how they are still in > reaction to what we feared the British would do to us 200+ years ago! > It's the historian in me, which was my undergraduate major. Maybe OJ's > innocent, maybe not, but the process itself is a mirror of our society, I > think. > From socgrad-relay@UCSD.EDU Thu Jul 14 21:08:53 1994 sendmail 8.6.9/UCSD-2.2-sun Thu, 14 Jul 1994 21:07:21 -0700 for socgrad-list Thu, 14 Jul 1994 21:07:20 -0700 for Date: Thu, 14 Jul 1994 21:04:07 -0700 (PDT) From: Laura Lee Adams Subject: Re: Nationalism (No header on original) To: "I don't think this will reduce confusion" The tricky thing about saying that the Soviet Union was an artificial construct forced upon its inhabitants is that it makes the current nationalism there look like some sort of primordial urge for sovereign nations to finally be free. In many ways, the Soviet state encouraged and sometimes even created national identities. What we see today is, in my opinion, largely the result of the requirements of the world system of nation states. If you want any goodies, you have to be a nation, so many large ethnic groups are trying to make a nation for themselves so that they have a legitimate claim on international trade and powerbroking. -Laura "the new Sovietology" Adams :) From socgrad-relay@UCSD.EDU Fri Jul 15 04:42:05 1994 sendmail 8.6.9/UCSD-2.2-sun Fri, 15 Jul 1994 04:40:46 -0700 for socgrad-list Fri, 15 Jul 1994 04:40:45 -0700 for Date: Fri, 15 Jul 94 07:40 EDT From: "I don't think this will reduce confusion" Subject: Re: Nationalism (No header on original) To: ladams@uclink.berkeley.edu -- Thu, 14 Jul 1994 21:04:07 -0700 (PDT) > The tricky thing about saying that the Soviet Union was an >artificial construct forced upon its inhabitants is that it makes the >current nationalism there look like some sort of primordial urge for >sovereign nations to finally be free. In many ways, the Soviet state >encouraged and sometimes even created national identities. What we see >today is, in my opinion, largely the result of the requirements of the >world system of nation states. If you want any goodies, you have to be a >nation, so many large ethnic groups are trying to make a nation for >themselves so that they have a legitimate claim on international trade >and powerbroking. Could you toss out a couple of examples of where the Soviet state created national identities? Thanks. Jetaway Dave From socgrad-relay@UCSD.EDU Fri Jul 15 07:47:32 1994 sendmail 8.6.9/UCSD-2.2-sun Fri, 15 Jul 1994 07:46:16 -0700 for socgrad-list Fri, 15 Jul 1994 07:46:14 -0700 for Date: Fri, 15 Jul 1994 08:46:11 -0600 (MDT) From: rebel palm aitchison Subject: Re: Means and ends To: "John J. Maurer" On Thu, 14 Jul 1994, John J. Maurer wrote: > > Rebel, laws and the criminal justice system of the United States don't > SOLVE any of our social problems. It does occassionally enforce a minute > amount of deterrence BUT mostly it forces the illegal activity underground. > In fact, Laws create crimes. If drugs weren't illegal there would be no ---snip---- > seemed to make every possible thing that happens illegal. I mean kids > can't even circle a damn street in their cars without getting arrested or > receiving a fine. We tend to find what many consider to be a problem and > just create a bill instead of finding the true source and true solutions to > such problems. Since kids are who I'm interested in, you've captured my main concern. I watch kids in my neighborhood gather in front of Subway in the parking lot because they don't have anywhere else to go--everything they would naturally do to congregate is outlawed--cruising, hanging out in malls, hanging out at a restaurant. so they sit in parking lots, drink and smoke pot, and then adults wonder why kids are "so bad these days". It's real simple if you watch them--they're bored! Every time more than 5 kids get together in a group, the police come in to break it up. Makes me want to invoke whichever amedment it is that guarantees our right to assembly. You also captured my other main point--that laws make criminals. Every time a new law is passed, a new class of criminal is created. And now the kids can't do jack squat without being in danger of violating some ordinance--we have defined them legally as criminals (almost) and then we wonder why they're disenchanted. (John, did you get my message about where to go in Boulder?) From socgrad-relay@UCSD.EDU Fri Jul 15 08:01:53 1994 sendmail 8.6.9/UCSD-2.2-sun Fri, 15 Jul 1994 08:00:35 -0700 for socgrad-list Fri, 15 Jul 1994 08:00:28 -0700 for Date: Fri, 15 Jul 1994 17:54:42 -0100 (GMT-2:00) From: Uldis Birgelis Subject: Re: Nationalism (No header on original) To: Laura Lee Adams blyden.potts@um.cc.umich.edu, socgrad@UCSD.EDU On Thu, 14 Jul 1994, Laura Lee Adams wrote: > In many ways, the Soviet state > encouraged and sometimes even created national identities. ^^^^^^^ Well, U probably exaggerate the role of state under the Soviets. For I've lived there some time *grin* I can remember that Soviet state had nothing to do about _encouraging_ or _creating_ something. The basic function of State was restrictive, suppressing any possible emerging identities - the official propaganda said _all people are equal_, and one had to read _all people are alike_. I suspect that nationalism survived only because ethnic identity is very simple - if U want to be Latvian (Russian, French etc.) U only need to know it, but if U want to be, f.ex., middle-class, U need smth.else. Uldis $Empirical Sovietology$ Birgelis, Riga, Latvia &&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&& & Uldis S. Birgelis Co-ordinator & & uberegu@cclu.lv Student Association Gadsimts & & Latvia University & & Riga, Latvia & &_______________________________________________________________& & Theory means everybody knows everything but nothing works. & & Practice means everything works but nobody knows why. & & Theory integrated into practice means nothing works & & and nobody knows why. & &&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&& From socgrad-relay@UCSD.EDU Fri Jul 15 08:09:31 1994 sendmail 8.6.9/UCSD-2.2-sun Fri, 15 Jul 1994 08:08:09 -0700 for socgrad-list Fri, 15 Jul 1994 08:08:06 -0700 for Date: Fri, 15 Jul 94 11:04:56 EDT From: Steve Harvey Subject: nationalism To: SOCGRAD@UCSD.EDU I think that the use of the word "encourage" was not meant to imply a conscious and positive effort, but rather that the very repressiveness of the regime "encouraged" a stronger identification with one's nationality, in opposition to the oppressor. -Steve From socgrad-relay@UCSD.EDU Sun Jul 17 22:28:36 1994 sendmail 8.6.9/UCSD-2.2-sun Sun, 17 Jul 1994 22:27:17 -0700 for socgrad-list Sun, 17 Jul 1994 22:27:15 -0700 for Date: Sun, 17 Jul 1994 22:25:42 -0700 (PDT) From: Laura Lee Adams Subject: Re: Nationalism (No header on original) To: "I don't think this will reduce confusion" I was asked to give some examples of national identities that were "created" by the Soviet state. What we know today as the nations of Uzbekistan, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan and Turkmenistan were before the revolution nomadic tribes, settled pastoralist clans, khanates, emirates, etc. When the Soviets took over the area they implemented their policy of ruling by federation based on their concept of nationality so every territory had to have its own national language, culture, style of art dance and music, etc. The idea of a coherent Uzbek identity in the scope and scale as it exists today is only about 70 years old. There are many other examples of the Soviet nationalities policies reifying some ethnic groups as nationalities while others were ignored, leading to greater institutional support for some ethnic identities than others. While this isn't the creation of identity, the Soviet state can be credited/held responsible (depending on whether or not you think national sovereignty is a good thing) with the strength of many of today's sovereignty struggles based on national identity. If anyone else is interested in this and wants references, feel free to write to me. I'm always happy to go off on my favorite obscure topic! -Laura Adams From socgrad-relay@UCSD.EDU Sun Jul 17 22:48:15 1994 sendmail 8.6.9/UCSD-2.2-sun Sun, 17 Jul 1994 22:47:18 -0700 for socgrad-list Sun, 17 Jul 1994 22:47:16 -0700 for Date: Sun, 17 Jul 1994 22:38:58 -0700 (PDT) From: Laura Lee Adams Subject: Re: nationalism To: Steve Harvey In light of Uldis' and Steve's responses (which I didn't think to read before my last reply) I feel like I should just say that of course the Baltic republics had a very different experience from what I'm talking about. The Baltics had their own national institutions long before the Soviets came along and experienced the Soviet domination as an extreme form of cultural oppression. However, as I hope my previous post makes clear, Steve misinterpreted what I was saying about identities being encouraged. I mean just that: the institutions of Soviet nationalities policy encouraged a specific form of national identity in many ethnic groups who we would not have recognized as "nations" 100 years ago. The degree to which the content of these national forms was Soviet, not national, culture is an issue which needs to be investigated. -Laura Adams From socgrad-relay@UCSD.EDU Mon Jul 18 07:46:56 1994 sendmail 8.6.9/UCSD-2.2-sun Mon, 18 Jul 1994 07:45:30 -0700 for socgrad-list Mon, 18 Jul 1994 07:45:26 -0700 for Date: Mon, 18 Jul 94 10:36 EDT From: "I don't think this will reduce confusion" Subject: Re: Nationalism (No header on original) To: socgrad@UCSD.EDU -- Sun, 17 Jul 1994 22:25:42 -0700 (PDT) > I was asked to give some examples of national identities that >were "created" by the Soviet state. What we know today as the nations of >Uzbekistan, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan and Turkmenistan were >before the revolution nomadic tribes, settled pastoralist clans, >khanates, emirates, etc. When the Soviets took over the area they >implemented their policy of ruling by federation based on their concept >of nationality so every territory had to have its own national language, >culture, style of art dance and music, etc. The idea of a coherent Uzbek >identity in the scope and scale as it exists today is only about 70 years >old. There are many other examples of the Soviet nationalities policies >reifying some ethnic groups as nationalities while others were ignored, >leading to greater institutional support for some ethnic identities than >others. While this isn't the creation of identity, the Soviet state can >be credited/held responsible (depending on whether or not you think >national sovereignty is a good thing) with the strength of many of >today's sovereignty struggles based on national identity. > If anyone else is interested in this and wants references, feel >free to write to me. I'm always happy to go off on my favorite obscure >topic! > -Laura Adams Thanks for the reply. It seems to me that the Soviet expierience pretty much supports my original point about nationalism. An external power (the Soviets) imposes national / federal boundaries on collections of ethnic groups who previously had little in common. With the demise of the Soviet Union, the constitutent ethnic identities are again rising to the fore. Leading to the battles which are wracking the above mentioned states as each 'clan' seeks to seperate itself from the other and/or grab the most productive areas of the country. Jetaway Dave. From list-relay@UCSD.EDU Wed Jul 20 18:33:59 1994 Wed, 20 Jul 1994 16:31:47 -0700 for Date: Wed, 20 Jul 1994 19:27:51 -0400 (EDT) From: alan bruce Subject: Grants. To: socgrad I am looking for information about applying for financial awards to travel to conferences overseas. I know one or two people that claim to have received awards to attend conferences in other countries but I have been unable to obtain any specific details about who/where to write to apply for such awards. I don't know if any of you know of any sources for such funding but if you do, I would appreciate hearing from you, Thanks, Alan. abruce@andy.bgsu.edu From list-relay@UCSD.EDU Thu Jul 21 06:22:25 1994 Thu, 21 Jul 1994 06:19:44 -0700 for To: socgrad@UCSD.EDU From: JCASSELL@gibbs.oit.unc.edu (James W. Cassell) Subject: Attn: Grad Students in the Arts & Sciences Date: Thu, 21 Jul 1994 09:19:59 Saw this in the newsgroup alt.grad-student.tenured and thought some of you might like to contribute. Please contact Lesli Mitchell at the address given in the article. Jim ----------------------------------------------- --- Forwarded message follows --- From: engllm@gsusgi2.Gsu.EDU (Lesli Mitchell) Subject: Attn: Grad Students in the Arts & Sciences Date: 17 Jul 1994 18:55:24 GMT Do you wish you'd had an honest, general information guide about grad school before you started? Would you like to help put one together? I am a graduate student writing a book called _Handbook for Grad Students_. If you're interested, I would like you to respond to a short, informal questionnaire about your experiences in grad school. This is not a scientific survey--mainly I want you to offer any tips, stories, or problems you've encountered to undergrad students thinking about going to grad school. With your permission, your name will be credited in the book for any quotations, anecdotes, etc. that I use. If you're interested, send a reply and I'll email you the questionnaire. Also, feel free to pass it on to your friends or post it to related newsgroups. Thanks. -- Department of English Georgia State University University Plaza Atlanta, GA 30303-3083 (404) 651-2900 (404) 651-1710 (fax) From list-relay@UCSD.EDU Fri Jul 22 06:02:12 1994 Fri, 22 Jul 1994 06:00:51 -0700 for From: S-LMARTIN@bss1.umd.edu Fri, 22 Jul 94 9:00:50 +1100 Organization: University of Maryland,College Park To: socgrad@UCSD.EDU Date: Fri, 22 Jul 1994 09:00:39 EDT Subject: work & blaming the victim Socgradders, I want to thank those who responded to my query about a week ago on whether the motivation to work varies by social class. From my literature review so far, I would like to share the best empirical pieces for those interested in this question (which often comes up in classes we may be teaching). Leonard Goodwin wrote a book called Do the Poor Want to Work?: A Social-Psychological Study of Work Orientations (1972), Leonard Reissman has a 1969 paper in Urban Affairs Quarterly, and there is good 1974 paper by C. Davidson & C. Gaitz in Social Problems. Do the poor want to work? Yes, just as much as any other social class. Does the motivation to work vary by social class? No, not significantly, and it's pretty high for all classes. Too often now, many have gone from the turn of the century Veblen- like sociological critique of the "leisure class," the wealthy, to challenging the poor and reducing the importance of economic- power arrangements. Most students are deeply inculcated in the "culture of poverty" argument, which is an inaccurate and dangerous blame the victim stance that rationalizes continuing structural inequalities and exploitations. [P.S. -- Anybody at U. of Chicago (or elsewhere) who can help me out on this line of thinking as it might relate to the Chicago Urban Poverty and Family Life Study?] Lee Martin U. of Maryland s-lmartin@bss1.umd.edu From list-relay@UCSD.EDU Fri Jul 22 10:09:57 1994 Fri, 22 Jul 1994 10:07:59 -0700 for Date: Fri, 22 Jul 1994 11:50:51 -0500 (CDT) From: Michael Gibbons Subject: working poor To: socgrad hello all! as part of my participant observation project this summer, i have encountered an interesting fellow who is very poor and who has swallowed the work ethic thing hook, line, and sinker (to honor an oldcliche). this fellow is about fifty and spent several years in the army where he seems to have been given some little rank. he is very chaffing and is a huge pain in the ass to study with. what is most curious about hime though, is that his most common criticism of everybody else on the crew is that "he just doesn't want to work." the implication here is that he in fact does want to work and the truth is that he does work pretty hard most of the time. he contends that he just wants to give his employer an honest day's work. this kills me though, because his honest day's work for the employer has bought the employer over a few years a new house and a nice construction company. the "honest" return for the employee is about seven dollars an hour and job security for the next day. so my main reaction is that those who don't want to work are aware of their exploitation as workers. his main insult and most common criticism of others is, to me, misplaced, as well as creating the values needed for an exploited class to continue to be exploited. there is of course a whole lot of other issues here that could be studied such as economic power, values associated with class, different attitudes toward the marketplace and labor between the working class today and others that came of age at different time periods, etc. the main point to this post is to point out once again how easy it is for the mythology of our country to shroud inequitable relationships, justify them, and ensure their continuance. michael in retrospect this post looks more marxist than i intended it too. oh well. From list-relay@UCSD.EDU Fri Jul 22 21:38:47 1994 Fri, 22 Jul 1994 21:36:07 -0700 for From: estrayer@cats.ucsc.edu Date: Fri, 22 Jul 1994 21:36:04 -0700 To: socgrad@UCSD.EDU Subject: Re: working poor A sort of wordy rambling on the work ethic notion. Not terribly academic: I liked Michael's account of the military guy talking about an "honest days work." I have begun looking into the "work ethic" and reading some Baudrillaud stuff on consumer/materialism issues that dovetail very nicely. What I am starting to see (and this may be no surprise to you folk) is that in jobs of monotony, and jobs of great ambiguity -- where the final product is never seen, or paper is shuffled for reasons not immediatly clear (or important) to the worker, that something must compensate for this utter nonsense that goes on for most of a person's waking time. I suspect that the so-called work ethic can be seen as a nominal sort of rationalization for a situation that is mostly beyond the worker's control. After all, "what is to be done?" The worker cannot just quit! Or, at least, the worker _thinks_ s/he cannot quit. So an ethic, or a rationale for a repetetive and banal existance becomes necessary. Instead of a career, we the work ethic. In so far as Lee's summary of the work ethic or, the desire to work on the part of the poor, well, I don't know what the real question was. Is it that "do poor people dislike work?" or is it "poor people don't have [the same] work ethic as the working non-poor?" I suspect that depending upon how the question is put one can get as many non-working poor people to say the want to work as one could get working non-poor people to say that they DON'T want to work. The question that I need to satisfy for myself, and am ready for some feedback here, is what do we mean by the word "work?" Personally I HATE work, in the sense, that I hate doing stupid jobs, or mindless jobs, or sometimes just about any job depending upon WHO it is for. But I work a lot. I read and write and study, etc. A lot. It is work. It doesn't pay for shit, but it is work. But it is a different kind of work -- I think. I suspect that most everyone, regardless of class or race or ethnicity likes to feel useful. That is, likes to feel either needed, or appreciated, or somehow creative, or even just busy, in a productive sort of way. But this doesn't mean that eveyone want's to work an all-night gas station, or wash dishes, or become a robot for McDonald's, or spend endless hours over a microscope checking solders, and on and on. Somehow we have come to think that this thing called a work ethic means that it is good to do stupid things, and to work for mean rich people, and be quiet about it. This certainly has nothing to do with Weber's PWE definition and history, but America is awfully keen on the idea: work = good leisure = bad* *bad unless it is a process of consumption which justifies absurdly high levels of production of products that are highly unnecessary to begin with. So a work ethic might be a survival tactic in a hopeless situation, and that is certainly understandable. But, it isn't the sort of thing I'd wish on anyone else! Anyway, the world would likely be a better place if we (the west I suppose) worked less, not more. eric ======================================================================== Eric Strayer |"All that is solid melts into air" | estrayer@cats.ucsc.edu | *** Marx | | "Please accpet my resignation, I don't | student * beggar * dilettante| I don't want to belong to a club that | DoD#1120 Honda GB500| would accept me as a member" Marx | ======================================================================== From list-relay@UCSD.EDU Sat Jul 23 07:15:26 1994 Sat, 23 Jul 1994 07:14:33 -0700 for Date: Sat, 23 Jul 94 10:14 EDT From: "I don't think this will reduce confusion" Subject: Work To: socgrad@UCSD.EDU Well, 'work' is a four-letter word. Jetaway (Worker's of the world...RELAX) Dave Copped from an old UTNE From list-relay@UCSD.EDU Sat Jul 23 08:30:06 1994 Sat, 23 Jul 1994 08:29:18 -0700 for Date: Sat, 23 Jul 94 10:58:22 EDT From: Steve Harvey Subject: work To: SOCGRAD@UCSD.EDU Work, in the physical sense, is the expendature of energy. So, getting out of bed, playing tennis, digesting breakfast, and trying to decide which video to rent are all "work". In the social sense, I've always considered "work" to mean some contribution to a collective enterprise (a group effort or a contribution to an exchange process). In this sense, sorry, reading and pondering would be a stretch. Of course, one must read and ponder in order to "produce" insights, which is certainly "work" (in both senses), but when we start including requisites to the performance of some task, then again everything becomes "work" (one must eat in order to work, etc.). So, from the perspective of "contribution", studying is not work, it is preparation to perform some work (which one may or may not actually perform). Both capitalists and Marxists agree that collective well-being requires individual contributions of effort (the disagreement is in how to organize that effort, and how to distribute the returns), so, except in those rare occassions when a food-gath- ering society lives in an environmental of abundance, it seems to me that every social system would require some form of a work ethic (sometimes a very minimal one). Personally, I love leisure. I love to hang in a hammock and read a good book; to watch a sunset from the first deepening of hues to the last purple wisp fading into darkness; to let random thoughts chase each other around like clouds on a windy day. And, I have no compunctions about enjoying as much leisure as I can manage (which is quite a lot). I would retire right now, if I had the material resources to do so. I suspect we might all be a little better off if our balance of values favored such simple pleasures more than they presently do (to judge by those around me). I've recently realized that I emphatically DO NOT want to become one of these neurotic, cogs-in-the-machine type of academics I am being taught and pressured by. So, there is some balance between doing what needs to be done, and needing less to be done. It certainly is unfortunate that we have the *physical* means to all (all 5+ billion of us, that is) live in pleasant comfort without excessive effort, but not the social or political economic means. However, this latter problem is not trivial; it is not some superficial artifact. It is as deep a part of our reality as any other, and I believe we are a long way from resolving it. Steve harvey@uconnvm.uconn.edu From list-relay@UCSD.EDU Sat Jul 23 09:17:12 1994 Sat, 23 Jul 1994 09:16:11 -0700 for From: S-ENDER@bss1.umd.edu Sat, 23 Jul 94 12:14:55 +1100 Organization: University of Maryland,College Park To: socgrad@UCSD.EDU Date: Sat, 23 Jul 1994 12:14:48 EDT Subject: Re: work & blaming the victim i think lee's initial query about inculcating students with the idea that the "culture of poverty" is a sociologically blinding concept that students intuitively identify with is important...some of the second and third generation undergrads (middle class) in our social problems courses seem to mistake instant material gratification with a lack of work ethic...(i should note that some of my 1st generation students are even more adamant about blaming the victim)...i wonder if the stigma of squandering time, money and resources reflects a middle class only coming into contact with the working class and underclass in liesure contexts and not in the world of work and consequently generalizing how they spend their money to how they earn their money? morten `w-o-r-k spelled backwards in k-r-o-w' ender From list-relay@UCSD.EDU Sat Jul 23 14:44:27 1994 Sat, 23 Jul 1994 14:43:40 -0700 for From: BREKHUS@zodiac.rutgers.edu Date: Sat, 23 Jul 1994 17:43:08 -0400 (EDT) Subject: looking for info on a SPIN magazine article To: socgrad@UCSD.EDU Hi socgradders, This summer a student gave me a photocopy of a really interesting article on street gangs in Davenport Iowa. I want to use the article in a coursepack for my fall social problems class, but I don't know what edition of SPIN magazine the article is from. Can anyone out there give me the ISSN # for SPIN magazine, and tell me what edition has an article by Marc Cooper titled "Reality Check" that talks about violent brotherhoods in rural Davenport Iowa? If so I'd really appreciate it. Wayne Brekhus brekhus@zodiac.rutgers.edu From list-relay@UCSD.EDU Sun Jul 24 07:59:08 1994 Sun, 24 Jul 1994 07:57:58 -0700 for Date: Sun, 24 Jul 94 10:46:11 EDT From: Marni Hancock Organization: Emory University - Atlanta, Georgia, USA Subject: WORK To: SOCGRAD@UCSD.EDU Hello all! I would agree with the comment that almost everyone wants to feel useful--I would add that it is easier to achieve that feeling when there is feedback from those in one's environment supporting that perception. I believe (but cannot prove) that feeling productive is necessary for psychological well-being. However, how one achieves one's sense of usefulness or productivity is certainly culturally influenced, if not determined. Work may then be personally defined as whatever one does to achieve that sense of accomplishment--does one manipulate or deceive the system or make widgets which some one else installs in wodgets? Leisure, on the other hand, is only "good" if it has been "earned" via socially acceptable labors. Thus, my upcoming mostly leisure trip to California is acceptable and enviable to my colleagues at the various places where I work and study because I am perceived to be a hard worker who has earned a period of rest. I refuse to speculate on the accuracy of those perceptions, by the way :)! Changing the subject somewhat, who of you out there will be at the ASA's in L.A. next month? Is there going to be any kind of SOCGRAD gathering? If so, I'll try to attend. Marni Hancock SOCAW059@EMUVM1.CC.EMORY.EDU From list-relay@UCSD.EDU Sun Jul 24 14:45:56 1994 Sun, 24 Jul 1994 14:44:50 -0700 for Date: Sun, 24 Jul 1994 17:51:20 -0500 To: socgrad@UCSD.EDU From: danryan@minerva.cis.yale.edu (Dan Ryan) Subject: SOCGRAD at ASA -- A too long post... content-length: 3986 Hi folks -- Greetings from steamy Connecticut. Marni's question about ASA prompts me to send this message that has been sitting in my "finish and send off" pile for several weeks now. First, the background... As many of you know, we thought we'd arranged last year to have a SOCGRAD table at the Departmental Alumni Night (DAN) party. I spoke with an ASA person on the phone and we agreed that we'd have a table and she'd try to get them to waive the $100 "draping fee" (what the hotel charges for putting a table cloth on a table and providing a pole for a banner). Inspite of this arrangement, I got a bill in the mail a few days later. The ASA folks had a new banner made up for us (I was even told what colors it was, so I presume it really did exist), but someone put it in the box of materials for "other organizations" that had booths/tables in among the book exhibits. Since none of us knew about that, it just sat in it's box and never saw the light of day. When I located the ASA official I'd spoken with on the phone and explained the situation, she at least agreed that we wouldn't be charged. At the DAN party, several of us had meandered about looking for the SOCGRAD table without success. A couple of folks met up more or less by accident, but overall, there was, for SOCGRADers seeking their own, little joy that night in DANville. A few of us inquired over email to the folks at ASA about trying again this year. They enthusiastically agreed that it was a good idea, but that it should be in the form of a table at the welcoming party. Now, as you know, the tables at the welcoming party are oriented toward introducing folks to sections and services rather than toward current members or affiliates gathering under this or that flag. The section receptions do that for sections and the DAN does it for departments. The upshot of conversations thus far is that there is a charge for the DAN tables and so we'll have to settle for the welcoming party. (_I_ think that ASA should cover this cost in the spirit of supporting grad student participation in ASA, but that's another battle.) Here's my suggestion: First, we take the welcoming party table. This means we ought to have a few folks who are willing to sit there for the hour or so and tell folks what socgrad is, perhaps have a handout describing the group and providing instructions on how to join. Volunteers? Second, we can meet and greet at the DAN party even though we don't have a draped table. We could select a generic spot for our meeting -- right in front of the stage, for example -- or a location defined relative to some identifiable point -- near the "International Visitors" table, for example. Another possibility would be to all agree to wear, say, black tshirts to this event and recognize one another that way. Another approach would be to take a red pen and write "SOCGRAD" on your name tag. This would probably we useful in several respects. First, it would let SOCGRADers recognize one another. Second, it would give other folks an easy opening line for schmoozing with you (the main reason to go to ASA, after all): "So, ah, what's SOCGRAD?". Remember Arlo Guthrie's line in "Alice's Restaurant" about how if one person sang the song at the draft board, they'd think he was crazy, but that if four or five did it, they'd think it was a movement. My experience at ASA suggests that our best bet to making something happen is to concentrate on meeting one another and making it easy for us to find one another rather than just planning one big dinner date. We can do the latter, but I'd suggest not making it the one and only -- all kinds of things can come up that make one have to miss such a thing. If you're going to ASA, why not pipe up with what sounds like a good idea to you and why, and we can see if some sort of I'm also working on a piece called "How to Enjoy a Convention" that I will post sometime before ASA. Well, that's it for now. Cheers, Dan From list-relay@UCSD.EDU Sun Jul 24 16:43:17 1994 Sun, 24 Jul 1994 16:42:07 -0700 for Date: Sun, 24 Jul 94 19:41:16 EDT From: Jon Subject: Survey, please help To: socgrad@UCSD.EDU The folowing survey is going to be used as a evaluation of musical preferences a about the world among generation X members. It is completely anonymous. Result made avaiable, in written form, upon completion of the project. Any Comments or be sent to: Jon Epstein, Department of Sociology, Kent State Univerity, JEPSTEIN@KENTVM.KENT.EDU. Please forward surveys to that email address as well. What is your age_______________ Are you: Female__________ Male___________ Are you: African-American__________ Hispanic-American_________ Oriental- American__________ Caucasian-American_________ Other_____________________ What is Your favorite type of music Heavy Metal___________ Grunge_______________ Alternative_____________ Rap/Hip Hop___________ Hard Rock_____________ Industrial______________ Techno________________ Top Forty______________ Progressive/art rock________ Other__________________ Who are your favorite artists or bands? What were the names of the most recent CDs or tapes that you purchased and the a recorded them? List the concerts that you most recently attended About how many hours do you spend listening to your favorite music each day? ______None ______1 or 2 hours _______2 to 4 hours _______4 Hours or more For the Following questions please check the answerr that best describes how you question: It is hard to sleep at night when you think of all the recurrent crises in the ______Strongly Agree ______Agree ______No opinion ______Disagree ______Strongly Disagree The tensions in the world today make you wonder if you will be around in a few y ______Strongly Agree ______Agree ______No opinion ______Disagree ______Strongly Disagree The international situation is so complex that it just confuses a person to thin ______Strongly Agree ______Agree ______No opinion ______Disagree ______Strongly Disagree The only thing you can be sure of today is that you can be sure of nothing. ______Strongly Agree ______Agree ______No opinion ______Disagree ______Strongly Disagree Current political events have taken a unpredictable and destructive course. ______Strongly Agree ______Agree ______No opinion ______Disagree ______Strongly Disagree In spite of what some people say, the lot of the average person is getting worse ______Strongly Agree ______Agree ______No opinion ______Disagree ______Strongly Disagree Most people live lives of quiet desperation. ______Strongly Agree ______Agree ______No opinion ______Disagree ______Strongly Disagree With so many religions around today, one really doesn't know which to believe. ______Strongly Agree ______Agree ______No opinion ______Disagree ______Strongly Disagree One Should Live for today and let tomorrow take care of itself. ______Strongly Agree ______Agree ______No opinion ______Disagree ______Strongly Disagree Do you have the feeling that you don't really care about what goes on around yo --------Never feel this way ______Rarely feel this way ______No Opinion ______Sometimes feel this way ______Always feel this way Life is full of interest --------Never feel this way ______Rarely feel this way ______No Opinion ______Sometimes feel this way ______Always feel this way Your life has had no clear goals or purposes. --------Never feel this way ______Rarely feel this way ______No Opinion ______Sometimes feel this way ______Always feel this way Most of the things you will do in the future will be completely fascinating. --------Never feel this way ______Rarely feel this way ______No Opinion ______Sometimes feel this way ______Always feel this way When you think about life, you think about how good it is to be alive. --------Never feel this way ______Rarely feel this way ______No Opinion ______Sometimes feel this way ______Always feel this way Doing the things you do each day is a source of pain and boredom. --------Never feel this way ______Rarely feel this way ______No Opinion ______Sometimes feel this way ______Always feel this way You anticipate that your personal life in the future will be totally without mea --------Never feel this way ______Rarely feel this way ______No Opinion ______Sometimes feel this way ______Always feel this way How often do you have the feeling that there's little meaning in your daily life --------Never feel this way ______Rarely feel this way ______No Opinion ______Sometimes feel this way ______Always feel this way How often do you feel that your generation is part of an out of control marketi --------Never feel this way ______Rarely feel this way ______No Opinion ______Sometimes feel this way ______Always feel this way From list-relay@UCSD.EDU Sun Jul 24 17:38:02 1994 Sun, 24 Jul 1994 17:37:19 -0700 for Date: Sun, 24 Jul 1994 17:29:57 -0700 (PDT) From: Jiannbin Lee Shiao Subject: Re: SOCGRAD at ASA -- A too long post... To: Sociology Graduate Student List On Sun, 24 Jul 1994, Dan Ryan wrote: > Another approach would be to take a red pen and write "SOCGRAD" on your > name tag. This would probably we useful in several respects. First, it > would let SOCGRADers recognize one another. Second, it would give other > folks an easy opening line for schmoozing with you (the main reason to go > to ASA, after all): "So, ah, what's SOCGRAD?". Remember Arlo Guthrie's > line in "Alice's Restaurant" about how if one person sang the song at the > draft board, they'd think he was crazy, but that if four or five did it, > they'd think it was a movement. This approach sounds nice and easy to me. :) If a core of folks want to do something more formal, then I might drop by, but writing SOCGRAD on your name tag seems like something we should all do, regardless. tha j'ster From list-relay@UCSD.EDU Sun Jul 24 17:44:27 1994 Sun, 24 Jul 1994 17:43:51 -0700 for Date: Sun, 24 Jul 94 20:42:46 EDT From: Jon Subject: wacky margins in survey To: socgrad@UCSD.EDU The folowing survey is going to be used as a evaluation of musical preferences and feelings about the world among generation X members. It is completely anonymous. Results will be made avaiable, in written form, upon completion of the project. Any Comments or questions can be sent to: Jon Epstein, Department of Sociology, Kent State Univerity, JEPSTEIN@KENTVM.KENT.EDU. Please forward surveys to that email address as well. What is your age_______________ Are you: Female__________ Male___________ Are you: African-American__________ Hispanic-American_________ Oriental- American__________ Caucasian-American_________ Other_____________________ What is Your favorite type of music Heavy Metal___________ Grunge_______________ Alternative_____________ Rap/Hip Hop___________ Hard Rock_____________ Industrial______________ Techno________________ Top Forty______________ Progressive/art rock________ Other__________________ Who are your favorite artists or bands? What were the names of the most recent CDs or tapes that you purchased and the artists that recorded them? List the concerts that you most recently attended About how many hours do you spend listening to your favorite music each day? ______None ______1 or 2 hours _______2 to 4 hours _______4 Hours or more For the Following questions please check the answerr that best describes how you feel about the question: It is hard to sleep at night when you think of all the recurrent crises in the world. ______Strongly Agree ______Agree ______No opinion ______Disagree ______Strongly Disagree The tensions in the world today make you wonder if you will be around in a few years. ______Strongly Agree ______Agree ______No opinion ______Disagree ______Strongly Disagree The international situation is so complex that it just confuses a person to think about it. ______Strongly Agree ______Agree ______No opinion ______Disagree ______Strongly Disagree The only thing you can be sure of today is that you can be sure of nothing. ______Strongly Agree ______Agree ______No opinion ______Disagree ______Strongly Disagree Current political events have taken a unpredictable and destructive course. ______Strongly Agree ______Agree ______No opinion ______Disagree ______Strongly Disagree In spite of what some people say, the lot of the average person is getting worse, not better. ______Strongly Agree ______Agree ______No opinion ______Disagree ______Strongly Disagree Most people live lives of quiet desperation. ______Strongly Agree ______Agree ______No opinion ______Disagree ______Strongly Disagree With so many religions around today, one really doesn't know which to believe. ______Strongly Agree ______Agree ______No opinion ______Disagree ______Strongly Disagree One Should Live for today and let tomorrow take care of itself. ______Strongly Agree ______Agree ______No opinion ______Disagree ______Strongly Disagree Do you have the feeling that you don't really care about what goes on around you? ________Never feel this way _________Rarely feel this way _________No Opinion ________Sometimes feel this way ________Always feel this way Life is full of interest __________Never feel this way _________Rarely feel this way _________No Opinion ________Sometimes feel this way ________Always feel this way Your life has had no clear goals or purposes. __________Never feel this way _________Rarely feel this way _________No Opinion _________Sometimes feel this way _________Always feel this way Most of the things you will do in the future will be completely fascinating. ________Never feel this way _________Rarely feel this way _________No Opinion _________Sometimes feel this way _________Always feel this way When you think about life, you think about how good it is to be alive. ________Never feel this way _________Rarely feel this way _________No Opinion ________Sometimes feel this way ________Always feel this way Doing the things you do each day is a source of pain and boredom. ________Never feel this way _________Rarely feel this way _________No Opinion ________Sometimes feel this way ________Always feel this way You anticipate that your personal life in the future will be totally without meaning. ________Never feel this way _________Rarely feel this way _________No Opinion ________Sometimes feel this way ________Always feel this way How often do you have the feeling that there's little meaning in your daily life? ________Never feel this way _________Rarely feel this way _________No Opinion ________Sometimes feel this way ________Always feel this way How often do you feel that your generation is part of an out of control marketing experiment? ________Never feel this way _________Rarely feel this way _________No Opinion ________Sometimes feel this way ________Always feel this way From list-relay@UCSD.EDU Sun Jul 24 19:58:11 1994 Sun, 24 Jul 1994 19:57:16 -0700 for Date: Sun, 24 Jul 1994 20:54:57 -0600 (MDT) From: "Dale A. Albers" Subject: mail Address Wanted To: socgrad@UCSD.EDU Does ASA have an Email address? If so, can someone please fwd it to me. With thanks, D Albers From list-relay@UCSD.EDU Sun Jul 24 21:41:32 1994 Sun, 24 Jul 1994 21:40:14 -0700 for From: halebsky@ssc.wisc.edu Date: Sun, 24 Jul 1994 23:33:53 -0500 To: "socgrad@ucsd.edu"@ssc.wisc.edu Subject: ASA E-mail address ASA has several e-mail addresses. The main one is ASA@GWUVM (Bitnet). The address for the people who handle the annual meeting is ASAAM@GWUVM. Also, their tel. # is (202) 833-3410, and fax # is (202) 785-0146. Steve Halebsky Madison From list-relay@UCSD.EDU Sun Jul 24 21:44:11 1994 Sun, 24 Jul 1994 21:43:44 -0700 for From: estrayer@cats.ucsc.edu Date: Sun, 24 Jul 1994 21:43:41 -0700 To: dalbers@nmsu.edu, socgrad@UCSD.EDU Subject: Re: mail Address Wanted Ditto! Talk of serendipity, I was just talking to a friend in Davis. She couldn't find it. But she was SURE thre is one. I'll try internic and post if sucessful eric From list-relay@UCSD.EDU Mon Jul 25 06:11:07 1994 Mon, 25 Jul 1994 06:09:48 -0700 for Date: Mon, 25 Jul 1994 09:09:42 -0400 (EDT) From: James Cassell Subject: Re: ASA E-mail Addresses To: Sociology Graduate Student Discussion On Sun, 24 Jul 1994 halebsky@ssc.wisc.edu wrote: > ASA has several e-mail addresses. The main one is ASA@GWUVM (Bitnet). > The address for the people who handle the annual meeting is > ASAAM@GWUVM. > > Also, their tel. # is (202) 833-3410, and fax # is (202) 785-0146. > > Steve Halebsky > Madison > ASA has bought several addresses on Compuserve--see the latest Footnotes for details. (My copy is at home or I'd post the list of addresses here.) I'm not sure the gwuvm address still works. Best, Jim ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Jim Cassell jwcassell@UNC.EDU Institute for Research in Social Science Phone: 919-962-0782 University of North Carolina-Chapel Hill Fax: 919-962-4777 Chapel Hill, NC 27599-3355 USA From list-relay@UCSD.EDU Mon Jul 25 08:14:55 1994 Mon, 25 Jul 1994 08:10:47 -0700 for Date: Mon, 25 Jul 94 10:49:41 EDT From: Joya Misra Organization: Emory University - Atlanta, Georgia, USA Subject: Socgrad at ASA To: SOCGRAD@UCSD.EDU Thanks Dan for taking the time to be such a good schmoozy conference type organizer. Connecting last year in Miami was great, so it'd be fun if meeting each other happens even more this year. But, here's a question. Is there a charge for the table at the welcoming party? If so, and if ASA doesn't waive it, I don't want to see Dan stuck with it. The welcoming party is Friday from 6:30-8:00 p.m. I've never been to one, but I've assumed that it's not a raucous good timeor anything. Will Socgradders try and congregate here, or just set up a table for people whomay be interested in joining? The DAN party at 10:30 sounds like more of a good time. Why don't we choose a place? SOCGRAD on one's tag also sounds AOK. We could also try and meet one another throughout the conference in the Student Center (@ Westin Bonaventure) and at the Student Reception Saturday night (which is promised to be a "lively social gathering"). Dan's right, in that we'll all be running around a lot and themore chances to run into one another the better. Last year, many people also posted their sessions times in case other socgradders wanted to come to them. I'd certainly suggest checking the index for some socgrad-friends-names. It's fun to see people "doing their stuff." Best, joya From list-relay@UCSD.EDU Mon Jul 25 18:42:39 1994 Mon, 25 Jul 1994 18:36:43 -0700 for Date: Mon, 25 Jul 1994 21:36:42 -0400 (EDT) From: James Cassell Subject: New ASA email addresses To: Sociology Graduate Student Discussion Here are the new ASA email adddresses as listed in the May issue of Footnotes (p. 2). ASA_Executive_Office@MCIMAIL.COM ASA DEPARTMENTS & SERVICES ASA_Governace_Sections@MCIMAIL.COM ASA_Business_Office@MCIMAIL.COM ASA_Meeting_Services@MCIMAIL.COM ASA_Membership@MCIMAIL.COM ASA_Subscriptions@MCIMAIL.COM ASA_Publications@MCIMAIL.COM ASA PROGRAMS ASA_Spivack@MCIMAIL.COM ASA_Minority_Affairs@MCIMAIL.COM ASA_Chair_Link@MCIMAIL.COM ASA_Academic_Professional_Affairs@MCIMAIL.COM ASA_Research_Program@MCIMAIL.COM ASA_Public_Affairs@MCIMAIL.COM ASA_Public_Information@MCIMAIL.COM ASA STAFF MEMBERS ASA_Felice_Levine@MCIMAIL.COM ASA_Carla_Howery@MCIMAIL.COM ASA_Janet_Mancini_Billson@MCIMAIL.COM ASA_Ramon_Torrecilha@MCIMAIL.COM ASA_Karen_Edwards@MCIMAIL.COM ASA_Janet_Astner@MCIMAIL.COM Best, Jim ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Jim Cassell jwcassell@UNC.EDU Institute for Research in Social Science Phone: 919-962-0782 University of North Carolina-Chapel Hill Fax: 919-962-4777 Chapel Hill, NC 27599-3355 USA From list-relay@UCSD.EDU Wed Jul 27 01:41:20 1994 Wed, 27 Jul 1994 01:36:56 -0700 for Date: Wed, 27 Jul 1994 11:32:06 -0100 (GMT-2:00) From: Uldis Birgelis To: socgrad@UCSD.EDU sub socgrad uberegu@cclu.lv From list-relay@UCSD.EDU Wed Jul 27 02:25:14 1994 Date: Wed, 27 Jul 1994 12:18:50 -0100 (GMT-2:00) From: Uldis Birgelis Subject: The Mistery of Getting Off The List To: socgrad@UCSD.EDU Hi world, after reading for some months the complaints of those unsuccessfully trying to get off the list, this morning I unexpectedly found myself deleted from the list AGAINST my will. I suspect this was not because of my behaviour - I believe i did nothing wrong (since I did nothing at all *grin*). Perhaps listserv recognized me as *lost* because our link here is rather bad (Latvia <- Estonia <- Finnland <- Sweden etc.). Is there a way to tell the postmaster not to worry about that? On Mon, 25 Jul 1994, Mailing List Processor wrote: > Per request by postmast > "delete uberegu@cclu.lv socgrad" > 'uberegu@cclu.lv' was DELETED from the 'socgrad' mailing list. > > Although you have been deleted from the list, > some mail sent prior to your deletion may be > queued in the system. Please don't panic if you > receive a few last pieces of mail. > Well, I didn't panic, but U should know that feeling of being kicked :) Anyway, the new *instructions* for Getting Off The List is: Just Move to Latvia! Cheers, Uldis. &&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&& & Uldis S. Birgelis Co-ordinator & & uberegu@cclu.lv Student Association Gadsimts & & Latvia University & & Riga, Latvia & &_______________________________________________________________& & What I say is not what you've been taught in school. & & What you say is not what I've been taught in school. & & Is there something wrong with our schools? & &&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&& From list-relay@UCSD.EDU Wed Jul 27 05:47:06 1994 Wed, 27 Jul 1994 05:45:49 -0700 for Date: Wed, 27 Jul 1994 08:32:43 -0400 (EDT) From: Bill Sakamoto White Subject: SOCGRAD at ASA To: socgrad@UCSD.EDU Fellow SOCGRAD's, I think there have been some good suggestions to help us recognize each other at the ASA (Joya, I have met you before when I first entered the program at GSU and you were working for Dr. Elifson). Having SOCGRAD on our nametags will help us recognize each other. I would like to meet other SOCGRADS in a festive environment. The 10:30 DAN on Friday night sounds like an excellent opportunity. I'm presenting a paper on Saturday morning at 10:30 in the Open Topic Refereed Roundtables Session on "Interracial International Families." Since I'm from California, though, I'm leaving the ASA on Saturday evening to go see my mother and spend the rest of the weekend with her. Sounds like the student reception on Saturday night will be an event I wouldn't otherwise miss. Anyway, let's all try to get together. I look forward to meeting other SOCGRADS at ASA. Bill ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Bill Sakamoto White "All for ourselves, and nothing Georgia State University for other people, seems, in every Department of Sociology age of the world, to have been the socwawx@gsusgi2.gsu.edu vile maxim of the masters of mankind." Adam Smith ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From list-relay@UCSD.EDU Wed Jul 27 13:27:46 1994 Wed, 27 Jul 1994 13:23:08 -0700 for From: BREKHUS@zodiac.rutgers.edu Date: Wed, 27 Jul 1994 16:21:39 -0400 (EDT) Subject: socgrad at ASA To: socgrad@UCSD.EDU It seems like there's a consensus here that DAN would be a good place for us all to try and hook up. I'm all for Dan's suggestion that we pick a generic place to meet. Who wants to take charge here and make an executive decision where this place should be? Someone throw out a suggestionand see if we can reach a consensus on a meeting place. Do we know for sure that there's a stage area in the room, if so then let's go with Dan's suggestionthat we meet by the stage. By the way if anyone has info on what issue the 1994 Spin magazine article on gangs in Iowa is in I'm still looking for it. Couldn't find SPIN at my library. Anyone teaching social problems or deviance might consider using this article, it was journalistically written but had some good sociological insights. Also, I was amazed to read that there were 140 drive-by shootings last year in the Davenport Iowa area. Hope to meet a bunch of you at the ASA's. Cheers, Wayne From list-relay@UCSD.EDU Wed Jul 27 14:07:34 1994 Wed, 27 Jul 1994 13:59:41 -0700 for Date: Wed, 27 Jul 94 16:55:00 EDT From: Joya Misra Organization: Emory University - Atlanta, Georgia, USA Subject: SOCGRAD AT ASA To: SOCGRAD@UCSD.EDU Ya'll, Last year the stage was relatively large, so this may not be the easiest place to meet. How about a backup plan? Looking forward to seeing you. joya From list-relay@UCSD.EDU Wed Jul 27 19:28:37 1994 Wed, 27 Jul 1994 19:27:09 -0700 for Date: Wed, 27 Jul 1994 21:25:45 -0500 (CDT) From: Michael Gibbons Subject: where To: socgrad hello, this may sound a little spacy, but in what town is this asa thing happening this year and when is it? forgive me for being a little out of it. thanks, michael From list-relay@UCSD.EDU Thu Jul 28 14:57:24 1994 Thu, 28 Jul 1994 14:52:49 -0700 for From: XGWALTERS@CCVAX.FULLERTON.EDU Date: 28 Jul 1994 14:48:10 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: meeting place To: socgrad@UCSD.EDU to soc gradders, just a suggestion about where you guys want to meet, for anyone who has not been to the Bonaventure, there is a restaurant on top of this hotel that rotates so that you can see the whole of beautiful Los Angeles. Grab a window booth and you can make your sociological observations as you look out over the city. there is not only a restaurant up here but I believe there are meeting rooms as well. good luck, greg I'll be there but since its in my neighborhood I'll be commuting back and forth. typical californian in my automobile. From list-relay@UCSD.EDU Fri Jul 29 13:03:33 1994 Fri, 29 Jul 1994 13:00:10 -0700 for From: BREKHUS@zodiac.rutgers.edu Date: Fri, 29 Jul 1994 15:58:13 -0400 (EDT) Subject: socgrad at asa To: socgrad@UCSD.EDU Since the stage could be too large an area as Joya suggested, let's say we'll meet at the far left end of the stage (if one is facing into the room from the main entrance)? And if there's no stage the far left end of the cash bar or keg (whichever they have)? This is for the DAN thing. Of course we can attempt to hook up at other events as well. Wayne From list-relay@UCSD.EDU Fri Jul 29 13:40:54 1994 Fri, 29 Jul 1994 13:38:08 -0700 for From: blovitts@nsf.gov To: socgrad@UCSD.EDU, BREKHUS@zodiac.rutgers.edu Subject: Re: socgrad at asa Date: 29 Jul 94 16:29 EST The DAN thing sounds great, but I and I suspect others coming in from the East coast are going to be _very_ pooped by 10:30 on Friday night -- it will be 1:30 am for us. Perhaps the welcoming party would be a better time for SOCGRADers to meet en mass. Looking forward to seeing everyone there. Barbara From list-relay@UCSD.EDU Sat Jul 30 15:45:32 1994 Sat, 30 Jul 1994 15:43:44 -0700 for Date: Sat, 30 Jul 1994 17:39:32 -0500 (CDT) From: Michael Gibbons Subject: coupland To: socgrad i have just finished reading doug coupland's new novel, _life after god_. i found it to be interesting. critics will call it a 13-er book because of the particular standpoint from which coupland is writing. seeing how the whole x generation discussion went last time, i wouldn't mind avoiding that issue. nevertheless, and this is the point of the posting, what do others think of this book? michael From list-relay@UCSD.EDU Sat Jul 30 23:44:38 1994 Sat, 30 Jul 1994 23:43:19 -0700 for From: estrayer@cats.ucsc.edu Date: Sat, 30 Jul 1994 23:43:16 -0700 To: socgrad@UCSD.EDU Subject: protocol?? Silly question but... As I want to attend the confer in LA, I'll be riding down from Santa Cruz on a motorcycle. Wardrobe is limited under these circumstances. I'm being talked into wearing khaki slacs and sport coat stuff (you know, like a Joe-college is _suppose_ to look like). But considering just canning that and going even more casual. Having never been to this thing before I don't know which way it is slanted. Hope to do some schmoozing while there, so don't want to be TOO out of place. BTW, who was the eminent sociologist that rode the motorcycle to work every day??? eric From list-relay@UCSD.EDU Sun Jul 31 09:55:46 1994 Sun, 31 Jul 1994 09:51:31 -0700 for Date: Sun, 31 Jul 1994 10:51:29 -0600 (MDT) From: rebel palm aitchison Subject: Re: protocol?? To: estrayer@cats.ucsc.edu I heard it was C. Wright Mills. And he not only rode it to work, but would ride it up and down the halls of the dept, I think it was at a Univ of Texas campus but I'm not sure. On Sat, 30 Jul 1994 estrayer@cats.ucsc.edu wrote: > BTW, who was the eminent sociologist that > rode the motorcycle to work every day??? > > eric > From list-relay@UCSD.EDU Sun Jul 31 19:20:31 1994 Sun, 31 Jul 1994 19:18:56 -0700 for Date: Sun, 31 Jul 1994 22:10:24 -0400 (EDT) From: Bill Sakamoto White Subject: Re: protocol?? To: estrayer@cats.ucsc.edu Dress Protocol? Come on, aren't we "sociologists"? :-) Are we supposed to fit into "norms"? I've presented papers at numerous conferences over the past few years, but this is my first ASA. Fortunately (unfortunately?), they have to take me as I am. I, too, hope to do some networking. But I doubt anyone will see me in a dress coat---ever!! I don't do it now, not even at work (and I have a reputable job outside of full-time graduate school). This is a conference, and I suspect there will be many people in coats, ties, dresses, etc. For me, it's going to be a simple clothes that fit my personality. And, of course, the "bow tie." :-) -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bill Sakamoto White "I sit on a man's back, choking him, Georgia State University and making him carry me, and yet assure Dept. of Sociology myself and others that I am very sorry socwawx@gsusgi2.gsu.edu for him and wish to ease his lot by any means possible, except getting off his back." -- Leo Tolstoy --------------------------------------------------------------------------- On Sat, 30 Jul 1994 estrayer@cats.ucsc.edu wrote: > > Silly question but... > > As I want to attend the confer in LA, > I'll be riding down from Santa Cruz on a motorcycle. > Wardrobe is limited under these circumstances. > > I'm being talked into wearing khaki slacs and > sport coat stuff (you know, like a Joe-college is > _suppose_ to look like). > > But considering just canning that and going > even more casual. Having never been to this > thing before I don't know which way it is slanted. > > Hope to do some schmoozing while there, so > don't want to be TOO out of place. > > BTW, who was the eminent sociologist that > rode the motorcycle to work every day??? > > eric >