From cassell@frosty.irss.unc.edu Thu May 1 07:29:49 1997 Received: from frosty.irss.unc.edu (frosty.irss.unc.edu [152.2.32.82]) by csf.Colorado.EDU (8.7.6/8.7.3/CNS-4.0p) with SMTP id HAA10747 for ; Thu, 1 May 1997 07:29:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from cassell@localhost) by frosty.irss.unc.edu (8.6.12/8.6.10) id JAA22064; Thu, 1 May 1997 09:28:41 -0400 Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 09:28:41 -0400 (EDT) From: Jim Cassell To: sos-data@frosty.irss.unc.edu cc: Sociology Graduate Student Discussion Subject: China Dimensions Website (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII FYI; should be useful for folks interested in China. - Jim ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ James Cassell Institute for Research in Social Science e-mail: cassell@irss.unc.edu University of North Carolina Ph: 919/962-0782 Fx: 919/962-4777 Chapel Hill, NC 27599-3355 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 30 Apr 97 18:04:04 EDT From: CIESIN Information To: jwcassell@UNC.EDU Subject: China Dimensions Website CIESIN and its Socioeconomic Data and Applications Center (SEDAC) are pleased to announce on-line availability of the China Dimensions World Wide Web site. This site offers access to a unique data collection that has been designed to facilitate a wide range of natural science and socioeconomic research and educational activities. It enables both researchers and the general public to obtain accurate and timely information on the world's most populous country. The China Dimensions URL is: http://plue.sedac.ciesin.org/china Highlights of the China Dimensions WWW site include the following data resources: (1) China Administrative Regions GIS Data: 1:1M, County Level, 1990. (2) GB (Guo Biao -- National Standard) Codes for the Administrative Divisions of the People's Republic of China. (3) Fundamental GIS: Digital Chart of China, 1:1M, Version 1. Includes layers for roads, railroads, drainage system, contours, populated places and urbanized areas. (4) Interactive access to the China Census of Population, 1% Sample, 1982. (5) County-Level Data on Population and Agriculture, 1990: Keyed to 1:1M GIS Map. (6) County-Level Data on Provincial Economic Yearbooks, 1990-91: Keyed to 1:1M GIS Map. (7) Agricultural Statistics of the People's Republic of China, 1949-94. (8) County-Level Data on Hospitals and Epidemiology Stations, 1950-85. (9) Priority Program for China's Agenda 21. In addition, nation-level statistics on China are available through interactive access to the World Bank's Social Indicators of Development, Trends in Developing Economies and Monitoring Environmental Progress, and World Resources Institute's World Resources 1996-97 . For more information, please contact CIESIN User Services by e-mail at ciesin.info@ciesin.org or by telephone at 517/797-2727. This service is provided by the Consortium for International Earth Science Information Network (CIESIN) under contract to the U.S. National Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA) for the development and operation of the Socioeconomic Data and Applications Center (SEDAC). SEDAC is one of the data centers in NASA's Earth Observing System Data and Information System (EOSDIS). SEDAC's mission is to develop and deliver information products and services that integrate social and natural science data in ways useful for decision making. Many of the data resources have been developed in collaboration with the China in Time and Space (CITAS) project based at the University of Washington. CIESIN is a registered trademark of the Consortium for International Earth Science Information Network. From glenn@sobek.Colorado.EDU Thu May 1 17:10:40 1997 Received: from sobek.Colorado.EDU (sobek.Colorado.EDU [128.138.151.62]) by csf.Colorado.EDU (8.7.6/8.7.3/CNS-4.0p) with ESMTP id RAA20516 for ; Thu, 1 May 1997 17:10:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from glenn@localhost) by sobek.Colorado.EDU (8.8.5/8.8.5/Unixops/Hesiod/(SDM)) id RAA09037; Thu, 1 May 1997 17:10:34 -0600 (MDT) Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 17:10:34 -0600 (MDT) From: "Glenn W. Muschert" To: socgrad@csf.colorado.edu Subject: Job Opening (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Montana State University. Department of Sociology, two full-time openings for adjunct assistant professors beginning August 1997 (ABD or Ph.D.). Must cover general Sociology and/or Social & Criminal Justice courses. Consideration given to candidates complementing current faculty. Send letter of application, curriculum vita, and the names of three current references to C. Jack Gilchrist, Chair, Search Committee, Department of Sociology, Montana State University, Bozeman MT 59717-0238, (406) 994-4201, isijg@msu.oscs.montana.edu. Screening begins June 2, 1997. Minorities and women are strongly encouraged to apply. ADA/EO/AA/Veterans Preference. -- Tom E. Roll Associate Professor, Anthropology Department of Sociology Montana State University Bozeman MT 59717-2380 (406) 994-4201 isitr@msu.oscs.montana.edu From mpomeran@acs.ryerson.ca Fri May 2 07:47:19 1997 Received: from hopper.acs.ryerson.ca (hopper.acs.ryerson.ca [141.117.101.8]) by csf.Colorado.EDU (8.7.6/8.7.3/CNS-4.0p) with SMTP id HAA20673 for ; Fri, 2 May 1997 07:47:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: by hopper.acs.ryerson.ca (AIX 4.1/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA176214; Fri, 2 May 1997 09:45:14 -0400 Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 09:45:14 -0400 (EDT) From: Murray Pomerance To: socgrad@csf.colorado.edu Subject: Limited-Term Faculty Position Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII The Department of Sociology at Ryerson Polytechnic University in Toronto will be advertising a Limited-Term Faculty position effective 12:00 noon Eastern Time, Friday May 2, 1997, with an application deadline of noon, Eastern Time, Friday May 23, 1997. For full particulars consult the web at: http://www.ryerson.ca/soc/ From glenn@sobek.Colorado.EDU Tue May 6 16:45:09 1997 Received: from sobek.Colorado.EDU (sobek.Colorado.EDU [128.138.151.62]) by csf.Colorado.EDU (8.7.6/8.7.3/CNS-4.0p) with ESMTP id QAA20833 for ; Tue, 6 May 1997 16:45:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from glenn@localhost) by sobek.Colorado.EDU (8.8.5/8.8.5/Unixops/Hesiod/(SDM)) id QAA12098; Tue, 6 May 1997 16:45:06 -0600 (MDT) Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 16:45:06 -0600 (MDT) From: "Glenn W. Muschert" To: socgrad@csf.colorado.edu Subject: JOB POSTING (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII JOB Please be advised that there is a job posting for the Department of Sociology, Ryerson Polytechnic University, Toronto. The job is an LTF (Limited-term faculty) for 2 years, beginning in Sept. Applicants should have expertise in social class & inequality, as well as gender studies. All applicants must be Canadian citizens or landed immigrants. For information, please check our website at: http://www.ryerson.ca/soc/ There will also be a number of postings for sessional & part- time appointments by the end of this week. ************************************************************************* Joanne Naiman Department of Sociology Ryerson Polytechnic University 350 Victoria St. Toronto, Ontario CANADA M5B 2K3 Tel: (416) 979 5000, ext. 7047 Fax: (416) 979 5273 E-Mail: jnaiman@acs.ryerson.ca ************************************************************************* From glenn@sobek.Colorado.EDU Tue May 6 16:59:05 1997 Received: from sobek.Colorado.EDU (sobek.Colorado.EDU [128.138.151.62]) by csf.Colorado.EDU (8.7.6/8.7.3/CNS-4.0p) with ESMTP id QAA21394 for ; Tue, 6 May 1997 16:59:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from glenn@localhost) by sobek.Colorado.EDU (8.8.5/8.8.5/Unixops/Hesiod/(SDM)) id QAA12615; Tue, 6 May 1997 16:59:02 -0600 (MDT) Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 16:59:02 -0600 (MDT) From: "Glenn W. Muschert" To: socgrad@csf.colorado.edu Subject: new members and new owner on the list Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Hi socgrads, We have merged with another list, also called socgrad, which was recently started up at the University of Texas. For those of you who have been on the Colorado list, there is no change. Things will continue as usual. The members on the Texas list have been added to the Colorado list, and they are now present for our discussion. Rather than having simultaneous lists covering the same subject matter, we thought it would be best if we combined to make one, greater list. In addition, to your already existing list owners: Laura Miller, from the Univ. of Calif, San Diego, and Glenn Muschert, from the Univ. of Colo, Boulder, We now have a new list owner: Bob Woldman, from the Univ. of Texas, Austin. I wanted virtually to introduce you to Bob, and to welcome Bob and the new members to our list. Thanks for the discussions we have had in the past, and I hope that the new members will bring even more thoughtfulness into our forum. Good luck during finals (both in grading and taking them). Glenn W. Muschert Department of Sociology University of Colorado at Boulder Campus Box 327 Boulder, CO 80309-0327 U.S.A. voice: 303.492.1415 email: glenn@sobek.colorado.edu WWW URL: http://socsci.colorado.edu/~glenn/home.html From mpomeran@acs.ryerson.ca Tue May 6 17:19:10 1997 Received: from hopper.acs.ryerson.ca (hopper.acs.ryerson.ca [141.117.101.8]) by csf.Colorado.EDU (8.7.6/8.7.3/CNS-4.0p) with SMTP id RAA22452 for ; Tue, 6 May 1997 17:19:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: by hopper.acs.ryerson.ca (AIX 4.1/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA250418; Tue, 6 May 1997 19:17:06 -0400 Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 19:17:06 -0400 (EDT) From: Murray Pomerance To: socgrad@csf.colorado.edu Cc: Sociology Graduate Students -- International Subject: Re: JOB POSTING (fwd) In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Thanks to Glenn Muschert for posting about our LTF position, but the job will commence August 1, 1997 and last for 2 years. Any person interested (who is either a Canadian citizen or a Landed Immigrant in Canada) can find out details on our web page: http://www.ryerson.ca/soc/ Murray Pomerance From epullen@drew.edu Tue May 6 18:19:54 1997 Received: from DANIEL.DREW.EDU (daniel.drew.edu [192.107.39.6]) by csf.Colorado.EDU (8.7.6/8.7.3/CNS-4.0p) with ESMTP id SAA26348; Tue, 6 May 1997 18:19:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from drew.edu by drew.edu (PMDF V5.0-7 #15841) id <01IIK8BGFQN4BXNVZX@drew.edu>; Tue, 06 May 1997 20:05:21 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 06 May 1997 20:05:21 -0400 (EDT) From: Elizabeth Pullen Subject: Combining lists To: owner-socgrad@csf.colorado.edu Cc: socgrad@csf.colorado.edu Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Could you provide a little more information on how the combined socgrad lists will work? Do we direct our messages to either address? When we want to go "nomail" or unsubscribe, do we sent instructions to one or both listservs? I have messages today coming from both addresses so I assume one is not taking priority over the other. Explanation, please! z Liz Pullen epullen@drew.edu From glenn@sobek.Colorado.EDU Tue May 6 19:04:55 1997 Received: from sobek.Colorado.EDU (sobek.Colorado.EDU [128.138.151.62]) by csf.Colorado.EDU (8.7.6/8.7.3/CNS-4.0p) with ESMTP id TAA28119 for ; Tue, 6 May 1997 19:04:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from glenn@localhost) by sobek.Colorado.EDU (8.8.5/8.8.5/Unixops/Hesiod/(SDM)) id TAA15941; Tue, 6 May 1997 19:04:53 -0600 (MDT) Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 19:04:52 -0600 (MDT) From: "Glenn W. Muschert" To: socgrad@csf.colorado.edu Subject: Re: Combining lists In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII The list server at Texas will no longer be relevant to the list. Everything is operating out of the Colorado list server. So, for those people who already were on the Colorado list, there will be no change, except that there are more subscribers. For the people who were on the Texas list, they will now be subscribed to the Colorado list, and will do everything through the Colodao listserver. The Texas list is being combined with the Colorado list. The Texas list server will no longer operate for this list, and everything will go through the the Colorado list. The Texas list should go down soon, maybe Bob Woldman can fill us in on that. People already subscribed to the Texas list have been added to the Colorado list, and new subscribers will be instructed to subscribe to the Colorado list. Basically, we will have one list operating out of the colorado list server working out of Colorado. Glenn On Tue, 6 May 1997, Elizabeth Pullen wrote: > > Could you provide a little more information on how the combined socgrad > lists will work? Do we direct our messages to either address? When we want > to go "nomail" or unsubscribe, do we sent instructions to one or both > listservs? I have messages today coming from both addresses so I assume > one is not taking priority over the other. Explanation, please! > z > Liz Pullen > epullen@drew.edu > From DAVIDSON@UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU Tue May 6 19:08:14 1997 Received: from UConnVM.UConn.Edu (uconnvm.uconn.edu [137.99.26.3]) by csf.Colorado.EDU (8.7.6/8.7.3/CNS-4.0p) with SMTP id TAA28261 for ; Tue, 6 May 1997 19:08:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU by UConnVM.UConn.Edu (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with BSMTP id 6930; Tue, 06 May 97 21:08:09 EDT Received: from UConnVM.UConn.Edu (NJE origin DAVIDSON@UCONNVM) by UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU (LMail V1.2c/1.8c) with BSMTP id 9923; Tue, 6 May 1997 21:08:10 -0400 Date: Tue, 06 May 97 21:07:39 EDT From: Alan Subject: Combined lists To: socgrad@CSF.COLORADO.EDU Message-Id: <970506.210809.EDT.DAVIDSON@UConnVM.UConn.Edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT I wonder if there is a way to move the archives over from the texas list onto the colorado csf site as well? From bobwold@mail.utexas.edu Tue May 6 19:19:51 1997 Received: from smtp.utexas.edu (smtp.utexas.edu [128.83.126.2]) by csf.Colorado.EDU (8.7.6/8.7.3/CNS-4.0p) with SMTP id TAA28556 for ; Tue, 6 May 1997 19:19:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail-queue invoked from smtpd); 7 May 1997 01:19:48 -0000 Received: from slip-88-4.ots.utexas.edu (HELO UT.cc.utexas.edu) (128.83.219.132) by smtp.utexas.edu with SMTP; 7 May 1997 01:19:47 -0000 Message-ID: <336FD12D.7C6@mail.utexas.edu> Date: Tue, 06 May 1997 19:47:41 -0500 From: Bob Woldman MIME-Version: 1.0 To: socgrad@csf.colorado.edu Subject: Re: Combined lists References: <970506.210809.EDT.DAVIDSON@UConnVM.UConn.Edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Alan wrote: > > I wonder if there is a way to move the archives over from the texas list > onto the colorado csf site as well? I don't know Alan, but I will check into it. Though the old socgrad list here at Texas is not physically down yet, please address all messages to the Colorado list. -- ======================================================================== Bob Woldman bobwold@mail.utexas.edu Graduate Student of Sociology The University of Texas at Austin ======================================================================== "The real magic lies not in seeking new landscapes but in having new eyes." - Marcel Proust From glenn@sobek.Colorado.EDU Tue May 6 20:57:07 1997 Received: from sobek.Colorado.EDU (sobek.Colorado.EDU [128.138.151.62]) by csf.Colorado.EDU (8.7.6/8.7.3/CNS-4.0p) with ESMTP id UAA02895 for ; Tue, 6 May 1997 20:57:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from glenn@localhost) by sobek.Colorado.EDU (8.8.5/8.8.5/Unixops/Hesiod/(SDM)) id UAA17613; Tue, 6 May 1997 20:57:05 -0600 (MDT) Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 20:57:04 -0600 (MDT) From: "Glenn W. Muschert" To: socgrad@csf.colorado.edu Subject: Re: Combined lists In-Reply-To: <970506.210809.EDT.DAVIDSON@UConnVM.UConn.Edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Good thought, Alan. I believe it is possible, and I will go about doing it. Glenn On Tue, 6 May 1997, Alan wrote: > I wonder if there is a way to move the archives over from the texas list > onto the colorado csf site as well? > From 67910167%TAONODE@VMCMS.CSUOHIO.EDU Thu May 8 12:40:46 1997 Received: from VMCMS.CSUOHIO.EDU (vmcms.csuohio.edu [137.148.2.2]) by csf.Colorado.EDU (8.7.6/8.7.3/CNS-4.0p) with SMTP id MAA21102 for ; Thu, 8 May 1997 12:40:44 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199705081840.MAA21102@csf.Colorado.EDU> Received: from TAONODE by VMCMS.CSUOHIO.EDU (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with BSMTP id 0417; Thu, 08 May 97 14:37:05 EST Date: Thu 08 May 1997 14:36 ET To: socgrad@csf.colorado.edu From: 67910167%TAONODE@VMCMS.CSUOHIO.EDU (M.HOOVER ) Subject: Re: Social Theory To Liz and Danielle: Thanks for the suggestions, Berkeley and Santa Barbara don't sound that bad especially when you have to deal with Cleveland's winter weather. I'm more interested in some of the postmodernist writers and the theoretical works of Erving Goffman. The problem with most of the newer works is that they are impossible to understand. Reading some of the works of Habermas is about as difficult as Parsons, and I wouldn't recommend that on my worst enemy. Matt, m.hoover@csuohio.edu From DMC96005@UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU Thu May 8 12:51:53 1997 Received: from UConnVM.UConn.Edu (uconnvm.uconn.edu [137.99.26.3]) by csf.Colorado.EDU (8.7.6/8.7.3/CNS-4.0p) with SMTP id MAA21498 for ; Thu, 8 May 1997 12:51:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU by UConnVM.UConn.Edu (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with BSMTP id 4350; Thu, 08 May 97 14:51:45 EDT Received: from UConnVM.UConn.Edu (NJE origin DMC96005@UCONNVM) by UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU (LMail V1.2c/1.8c) with BSMTP id 0732; Thu, 8 May 1997 14:51:45 -0400 Date: Thu, 08 May 97 14:50:32 EDT From: danielle Subject: Re: Social Theory To: socgrad@CSF.COLORADO.EDU In-Reply-To: <199705081840.MAA21102@csf.Colorado.EDU> Message-Id: <970508.145144.EDT.DMC96005@UConnVM.UConn.Edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Matt -- postmodern-wise, have you read "Saturated Self " by Kenneth Gergen. Somewhat simplistic, but I think a very good intro to all this stuff floating around. Habermas? Try Schutz and phenomenology...... danielle From DAVIDSON@UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU Thu May 8 13:37:12 1997 Received: from UConnVM.UConn.Edu (uconnvm.uconn.edu [137.99.26.3]) by csf.Colorado.EDU (8.7.6/8.7.3/CNS-4.0p) with SMTP id NAA25218 for ; Thu, 8 May 1997 13:37:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU by UConnVM.UConn.Edu (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with BSMTP id 4513; Thu, 08 May 97 15:37:00 EDT Received: from UConnVM.UConn.Edu (NJE origin DAVIDSON@UCONNVM) by UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU (LMail V1.2c/1.8c) with BSMTP id 4926; Thu, 8 May 1997 15:37:00 -0400 Date: Thu, 08 May 97 15:36:18 EDT From: Alan Subject: Article on negotiating (fwd) To: socgrad@CSF.COLORADO.EDU, gss@UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU Message-Id: <970508.153659.EDT.DAVIDSON@UConnVM.UConn.Edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 12:05:33 -0400 Reply-To: Graduate Student Conversations Sender: Graduate Student Conversations From: "Karen E. Zaruba" Subject: Article on negotiating To: GRADTALK@UVVM.UVIC.CA In-Reply-To: I realize that negotiating a salary is an important topic for all of us, regardless of gender, but Nathalie's and Tracy's posts reminded me of something I saw in "Women in Higher Education" about women and negotiating for salaries. The article is "Overcoming Gender Bias by Developing Negotation Skills" by Cheryl Thompson-Stacy of Mount Union College in Ohio. (WIHE, Feb 1996, volume 5, no. 2, page 5). The author is a woman whose dissertation was on gender bias in higher ed, and she said that in her research she found that women administrators identified salaries and lack of negotiation for higher pay as key pieces of the puzzle. Bear with me as I excerpt parts of it. I don't mean to play fast and loose with copyrights, but I am not sure how widely-available this journal is. I thought it might be interesting for everyone START QUOTE: ...even at the level of dean, VP, or president, 80% of the women I interviewed did NOT negotiate the starting salary for their current positions [the author notes that some negotiate better pay for subordinates] .....most said they had no training at nogotiating...many said they were so happy to be offered the job that they were thrilled to accept whatever salary was offered....others compared their previous incomes as adjunct profesors or grad students, and concluded the salary was adequate. Those in hiring positions themselves agreed that males do a much better job of self negotiation. One woman who has hired about 25 women in her career said that, 'Of the 25, only one asked for more money, and she got it.' She had also hired about 25 males, of whom 20 asked for more money. ....women who ask for more money are not automatically disqualified for the position or dismissed as greedy. On the contrary, they may have gained new respect for valuing their own skills. Once you accept a position at even a few thousand dollars less than the going rate, you'll never catch up. Because most schools give across-the-board percentage raises each year, one who starts at a lower salary will just fall further behind each year. END QUOTE The article continues with some tips: START QUOTE: 1. Never accept a job offer on-the-spot (more than 75% of the women she had talked to made this mistake, to their dismay) 2. Use the time to benchmark. Women who did benchmarking expressed surprise at the copperation by their counterparts at other institutions.... 3. Call back the person making the offer. If it seems in line with prevailing salaries, ask for a few thousand more, just for practice. If it seems out of line, say something like 'The job sounds interesting and it looks like a good fit. But I'm concerned about the salary offer. I have checked at other schools and found out that the prevailing salary is more in the range of ______' Or discuss what special skills you bring to the job. END QUOTE ************************************ Karen Zaruba University of Michigan From vigil@mail.sdsu.edu Fri May 9 01:19:08 1997 Received: from mail.sdsu.edu (mail.sdsu.edu [130.191.25.3]) by csf.Colorado.EDU (8.7.6/8.7.3/CNS-4.0p) with ESMTP id BAA25057 for ; Fri, 9 May 1997 01:19:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (vigil@localhost) by mail.sdsu.edu (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id AAA05306 for ; Fri, 9 May 1997 00:18:55 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 00:18:55 -0700 (PDT) From: John V To: Sociology Graduate Students -- International Subject: Re: Social Theory In-Reply-To: <970508.145144.EDT.DMC96005@UConnVM.UConn.Edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > Matt -- postmodern-wise, have you read "Saturated Self " by Kenneth I'll second Saturated Self. Very enjoyable. I ran into the author somewhere on Usenet a while ago. From 67910167%TAONODE@VMCMS.CSUOHIO.EDU Fri May 9 14:08:21 1997 Received: from VMCMS.CSUOHIO.EDU (vmcms.csuohio.edu [137.148.2.2]) by csf.Colorado.EDU (8.7.6/8.7.3/CNS-4.0p) with SMTP id OAA23671 for ; Fri, 9 May 1997 14:08:19 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199705092008.OAA23671@csf.Colorado.EDU> Received: from TAONODE by VMCMS.CSUOHIO.EDU (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with BSMTP id 7976; Fri, 09 May 97 16:04:43 EST Date: Fri 09 May 1997 16:03 ET To: socgrad@csf.colorado.edu From: 67910167%TAONODE@VMCMS.CSUOHIO.EDU (M.HOOVER ) Subject: questions To fellow Grad Students: I was wondering if there was a way to find out how many people are signed onto this listserv? Every couple of days a new bio appears, but there are only a few messages posted every day. I don't know if people are leaving the list or if people don't have the time to post anything, Secondly, I've lost most of the earlier bio's that were sent to this list. Is there anyone who is keeping track of these earlier bio's? If not, I don't think anyone would mind if people would like to "reintroduce" themselves. And finally, a question about sociology. Here at CSU we have two or three professors who are heavily into the "Marxist/conflict" tradition of sociology. I don't have a problem with that, but there is a feeling among some of the students here that it might hurt your grades if you disagree with this way of thinking. We have one professor who believes that any criticism of Marx is a product of "ideology". Does anyone else out there feel this pressure to conform to a particular way of thinking? To Danielle and Liz: I haven't read that book, and it is checked out of our library. I have ordered it through ILL and will read it when it comes in. P.S. Lisa D., would you post something already! Thanks, Matthew Hoover m.hoover@csuohio.edu From conroyt@bu.edu Fri May 9 14:51:26 1997 Received: from acs4.bu.edu (ACS4.BU.EDU [128.197.154.40]) by csf.Colorado.EDU (8.7.6/8.7.3/CNS-4.0p) with ESMTP id OAA25180 for ; Fri, 9 May 1997 14:51:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from conroyt@localhost) by acs4.bu.edu (8.8.4/) id QAA139227; Fri, 9 May 1997 16:45:48 -0400 Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 16:45:48 -0400 (EDT) From: thomas conroy Subject: Re: questions To: "M.HOOVER" <67910167%TAONODE@VMCMS.CSUOHIO.EDU> cc: Sociology Graduate Students -- International In-Reply-To: <199705092008.OAA23671@csf.Colorado.EDU> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Fri, 9 May 1997, M.HOOVER wrote: > And finally, a question about sociology. Here at CSU we have two > or three professors who are heavily into the "Marxist/conflict" > tradition of sociology. I don't have a problem with that, but there > is a feeling among some of the students here that it might hurt your > grades if you disagree with this way of thinking. We have one > professor who believes that any criticism of Marx is a product of > "ideology". Does anyone else out there feel this pressure to > conform to a particular way of thinking? I just wanted to throw in a comment here. Although I am not familiar with the particulars of the situation you describe, and do not know the professors you are describing, my inclination is to jump to their defense. Although I am not a Marxist sociologist myself (more of a social constructionist), I am generally quite supportive of the neo-Marxist/critical theory project and believe that it has made definitive contributions to our discipline, such as in the areas of theory, class/stratification research, sociology of knowledge and culture, sociology of mass media, sociology of race and ethnicity, gender studies, etc. There may be a certain defensiveness on the part of Marxians, who have, over and over again, seen their work ridiculed, misread, ignored and generally disvalued, and often for ideological reasons; it would not be a suprise to me if they thus begin to respond on ideological terms. I've also seen instances of critics who may figure that they know about, and can perhaps dismiss, this approach after only having read some less than sympathetic secondary accounts - Jonathan Turner's, for instance, rather than bothering with the harder, more original stuff. Again, I am not familiar with the particulars of the situation you describe. If these profs are simply being ideological and less than intellectually honest, I'd feel no qualms about taking them on in debate in some appropriate forum; after all, neo-Marxians have good insights but not the entire market on truth, and the limits of their perspective are worth a healthy debate. A good debate in a proper forum ought to indicate whether you're dealing with scholars or mere ideologues. Anyway, this is just my $0.02 Tom Conroy Sociology Grad Student Boston University From jcf3c@server1.mail.virginia.edu Fri May 9 15:13:49 1997 Received: from mail.virginia.edu (mail.Virginia.EDU [128.143.2.9]) by csf.Colorado.EDU (8.7.6/8.7.3/CNS-4.0p) with SMTP id PAA25959 for ; Fri, 9 May 1997 15:13:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from server2.mail.virginia.edu by mail.virginia.edu id aa23534; 9 May 97 17:01 EDT Received: from bootp-140-141.bootp.Virginia.EDU (bootp-140-141.bootp.Virginia.EDU [128.143.140.141]) by server2.mail.virginia.edu (8.8.5/8.6.6) with SMTP id QAA27918; Fri, 9 May 1997 16:59:47 -0400 (EDT) From: "John C. Fries" Sender: jcf3c@server1.mail.virginia.edu To: SOCGRAD Listserv cc: "John C. Fries" Subject: Re: questions Message-ID: Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 17:00:59 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication: IMSP MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Matthew, The question really comes down to the grounds on which people reject a particular approach. Similarly, if your profs are espousing some kind of let's make the world a socialist state sort of interest based sociology, then they have no ground on which to accuse anyone of espousing ideology rather than social science. However, if they are simply arguing a more materialist sort of perspective, without getting into the "how things should be" stuff, well then they are right, and probably should discourage students from mixing their profession with their personal beliefs. John On Fri 09 May 1997 16:03 ET "M.HOOVER" <67910167%TAONODE@VMCMS.CSUOHIO.EDU> wrote: > To fellow Grad Students: > > I was wondering if there was a way to find out how many people > are signed onto this listserv? Every couple of days a new bio > appears, but there are only a few messages posted every day. > I don't know if people are leaving the list or if people don't have > the time to post anything, > > Secondly, I've lost most of the earlier bio's that were sent to this > list. Is there anyone who is keeping track of these earlier bio's? > If not, I don't think anyone would mind if people would like to > "reintroduce" themselves. > > And finally, a question about sociology. Here at CSU we have two > or three professors who are heavily into the "Marxist/conflict" > tradition of sociology. I don't have a problem with that, but there > is a feeling among some of the students here that it might hurt your > grades if you disagree with this way of thinking. We have one > professor who believes that any criticism of Marx is a product of > "ideology". Does anyone else out there feel this pressure to > conform to a particular way of thinking? > > To Danielle and Liz: > > I haven't read that book, and it is checked out of our library. I > have ordered it through ILL and will read it when it comes in. > > P.S. Lisa D., would you post something already! > > Thanks, > Matthew Hoover > m.hoover@csuohio.edu ----------------------------- |John C. Fries | |Graduate Student of Sociology| |University of Virginia | |jcf3c@virginia.edu | ----------------------------- From kwehr@ssc.wisc.edu Fri May 9 15:18:46 1997 Received: from duncan.ssc.wisc.edu (duncan.ssc.wisc.edu [144.92.190.57]) by csf.Colorado.EDU (8.7.6/8.7.3/CNS-4.0p) with SMTP id PAA26112 for ; Fri, 9 May 1997 15:18:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from elaine.ssc.wisc.edu by duncan.ssc.wisc.edu; (5.65v3.2/1.1.8.2/10May96-0433PM) id AA16721; Fri, 9 May 1997 16:18:40 -0500 Received: from localhost (kwehr@localhost) by elaine.ssc.wisc.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA02980 for ; Fri, 9 May 1997 16:18:39 -0500 (CDT) Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 16:18:39 -0500 (CDT) From: Kevin Wehr To: Sociology Graduate Students -- International Subject: Re: questions In-Reply-To: <199705092008.OAA23671@csf.Colorado.EDU> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Fri, 9 May 1997, M.HOOVER wrote: > it is a feeling among some of the students here that it might hurt your > grades if you disagree with this way of thinking. We have one > professor who believes that any criticism of Marx is a product of > "ideology". Does anyone else out there feel this pressure to > conform to a particular way of thinking? hmmm. we have had quite the interesting discussion of ideology here at this listserv a few weeks ago...so without bringing all that up again, my recommendation is always to inform yourself about the individual who is in a position of social power over y0ou, and learn more about the subject, or as much at least, as they know...that way you can argue successfully. in this instance, i would make an argument out of the work of Maclellan or Eagleton that ideology is a much larger concept than just that which is not Marxism. Marxism itself must be examined as ideological. Incidentally, Marx was never clear on this issue, he wrote several slightly different versions of his thoughts on ideology, and they are not consistent. Don't get me wrong, people can be inconsistent, especiallyw hen they have long careers. One of my favorite expressions that MArx invokes regarding false consciousness is the metaphor of the camera obscura: false consciousness is just an inverted and reversed version of the "correct" social reality...recall the famous saying: analogy is the last refuge of an intellectual scoundrel. In any case, you might pressure your prof. to clarify what s/he means by ideological, and then fire back some critiques of hsi defintion. that is, if you're the conforntational type. if not, you can always punt. --Kevin mediocrity thrives on standardization Kevin Wehr kwehr@ssc.wisc.edu 608.256.8961 From carrigan@rastro.Colorado.EDU Fri May 9 17:45:31 1997 Received: from rastro.Colorado.EDU (rastro.Colorado.EDU [128.138.129.21]) by csf.Colorado.EDU (8.7.6/8.7.3/CNS-4.0p) with ESMTP id RAA01201 for ; Fri, 9 May 1997 17:45:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (carrigan@localhost) by rastro.Colorado.EDU (8.8.5/8.8.4/CNS-4.1p) with SMTP id RAA23396 for ; Fri, 9 May 1997 17:45:29 -0600 Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 17:45:29 -0600 (MDT) From: Jackie Carrigan To: Sociology Graduate Students -- International Subject: Re: questions In-Reply-To: <199705092008.OAA23671@csf.Colorado.EDU> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII One problem I have had when trying to teach Marxist theory is that the students have many preconceived notions about Marxism (many of which are questionable) which the average undergraduate does not have about any other sociological theory. Sometimes students engage in arguments against these preconceived notions rather than with the material covered in class, which could hurt their grade if done during an exam. An argument that addressed the Marxist theory as presented in class would be no problem. It is very hard to overcome the ingrained bias against Marxism or the oversimplification of Marxism that is common among students. Jackie Carrigan University of Colorado-Boulder On Fri, 9 May 1997, M.HOOVER wrote: > And finally, a question about sociology. Here at CSU we have two > or three professors who are heavily into the "Marxist/conflict" > tradition of sociology. I don't have a problem with that, but there > is a feeling among some of the students here that it might hurt your > grades if you disagree with this way of thinking. We have one > professor who believes that any criticism of Marx is a product of > "ideology". Does anyone else out there feel this pressure to > conform to a particular way of thinking? > > To Danielle and Liz: > > I haven't read that book, and it is checked out of our library. I > have ordered it through ILL and will read it when it comes in. > > P.S. Lisa D., would you post something already! > > Thanks, > Matthew Hoover > m.hoover@csuohio.edu > From DMC96005@UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU Fri May 9 17:59:33 1997 Received: from UConnVM.UConn.Edu (uconnvm.uconn.edu [137.99.26.3]) by csf.Colorado.EDU (8.7.6/8.7.3/CNS-4.0p) with SMTP id RAA02157 for ; Fri, 9 May 1997 17:59:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU by UConnVM.UConn.Edu (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with BSMTP id 7682; Fri, 09 May 97 19:59:30 EDT Received: from UConnVM.UConn.Edu (NJE origin DMC96005@UCONNVM) by UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU (LMail V1.2c/1.8c) with BSMTP id 6375; Fri, 9 May 1997 19:59:30 -0400 Date: Fri, 09 May 97 19:56:48 EDT From: danielle Subject: Re: questions To: socgrad@CSF.COLORADO.EDU In-Reply-To: <199705092008.OAA23671@csf.Colorado.EDU> Message-Id: <970509.195929.EDT.DMC96005@UConnVM.UConn.Edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Matthew -- I think the whole ideology issue is in the eye of the beholder because I personally would say that those professors of yours are the ideological ones and are trying to force their opinions down their students throats. I have been criticized before for wanting to integrate several theoretical perspectives into my work on the grounds that I am just not willing to take a stand. I am more than willing to take a stand-- it is just that no one theory can explain everything and taking pieces from all of them helps me (thus my knowledge of postmodern writing -- a major taboo in my department). Good luck with it -danielle at uconn From glenn@sobek.Colorado.EDU Fri May 9 18:50:25 1997 Received: from sobek.Colorado.EDU (sobek.Colorado.EDU [128.138.151.62]) by csf.Colorado.EDU (8.7.6/8.7.3/CNS-4.0p) with ESMTP id SAA02961 for ; Fri, 9 May 1997 18:50:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from glenn@localhost) by sobek.Colorado.EDU (8.8.5/8.8.5/Unixops/Hesiod/(SDM)) id SAA26510; Fri, 9 May 1997 18:50:21 -0600 (MDT) Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 18:50:21 -0600 (MDT) From: "Glenn W. Muschert" To: socgrad@csf.colorado.edu Subject: Re: questions In-Reply-To: <199705092008.OAA23671@csf.Colorado.EDU> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Socgrads, I can respond to two of Matthew Hoover's questions: 1. How many subscribers? We have about 450 now that the Texas list has combined with the Colorado list. 2. What about the bio briefs? You can get an archive of all past discussions at the following URL: http://csf.colorado.edu/mail/socgrad We are working on getting the archives from the Texas socgrad list moved over to the csf.colorado.edu server as well. Glenn Glenn W. Muschert Department of Sociology University of Colorado at Boulder Campus Box 327 Boulder, CO 80309-0327 U.S.A. voice: 303.492.1415 email: glenn@sobek.colorado.edu WWW URL: http://socsci.colorado.edu/~glenn/home.html From MMREDL0@UKCC.UKY.EDU Fri May 9 19:53:06 1997 Received: from UKCC.uky.edu (ukcc.uky.edu [128.163.1.170]) by csf.Colorado.EDU (8.7.6/8.7.3/CNS-4.0p) with SMTP id TAA04708 for ; Fri, 9 May 1997 19:53:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from UKCC.UKY.EDU by UKCC.uky.edu (IBM VM SMTP V2R3) with BSMTP id 1599; Fri, 09 May 97 21:52:29 EDT Received: from ukcc.uky.edu (NJE origin MMREDL0@UKCC) by UKCC.UKY.EDU (LMail V1.2a/1.8a) with BSMTP id 8606; Fri, 9 May 1997 21:52:29 -0400 Date: Fri, 09 May 97 21:47:47 EDT From: Meredith Subject: Re: questions To: socgrad@CSF.COLORADO.EDU In-Reply-To: Message-Id: <970509.215228.EDT.MMREDL0@ukcc.uky.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT My $0.02 re:Marxism and ideologs.... I think the combo of Danielle, Tom and Kevin have summed up a lot of arguments concisely--yes, Marxism is still a vital field of study, often abused adn equally often misused (ideologically), and no neither it nor any other theory has all the answers so we must integrate and pick and choose.... Incidentally, I can't stand Jonathan Turner--and everyone in Kentucky knows it. The amount of theory he writes off as "nonsociological" (Ideology?) encompasses most of the rigorous thinking happening in this and many other disciplines.... Meredith From BJR49@student.canterbury.ac.nz Fri May 9 23:57:57 1997 Received: from cantva.canterbury.ac.nz (cantva.canterbury.ac.nz [132.181.30.3]) by csf.Colorado.EDU (8.7.6/8.7.3/CNS-4.0p) with ESMTP id XAA13628 for ; Fri, 9 May 1997 23:57:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from bjr49.tacacs.canterbury.ac.nz ("port 1031"@bjr49.tacacs.canterbury.ac.nz) by csc.canterbury.ac.nz (PMDF V5.1-7 #17207) with SMTP id <01IIPP0JX4OM8WXJFJ@csc.canterbury.ac.nz> for socgrad@csf.colorado.edu; Sat, 10 May 1997 17:57:44 +1200 Date: Sat, 10 May 1997 17:50:07 +1300 From: Ocean Subject: Virtual Identities and Communities ...refs ??? To: socgrad@csf.colorado.edu Message-id: <3373FE7F.1FA5@csc.canterbury.ac.nz> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit References: <199705092008.OAA23671@csf.Colorado.EDU> Hi. If you've been reading your mail recently then you would have seen my bio and how I'm doing a project on understanding virtual communities and how we create virtual identities, within these communities, through narratives. There is so much new literature in this field. I would really appriciate it if anyone could tell me of any interesting articles etc. Or alternativley, if you knew of different discussions, veiwpoints, arguments etc. My research is still in the developmental stages and I am trying to narrow my topic down. SO any info would be really cool at this stage of the game! Thanks. Belinda From slw@U.Arizona.EDU Sat May 10 04:41:15 1997 Received: from aruba.u.arizona.edu (aruba.U.Arizona.EDU [128.196.137.30]) by csf.Colorado.EDU (8.7.6/8.7.3/CNS-4.0p) with ESMTP id EAA08614 for ; Sat, 10 May 1997 04:41:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (slw@localhost) by aruba.u.arizona.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id DAA96406 for ; Sat, 10 May 1997 03:38:34 -0700 Date: Sat, 10 May 1997 03:38:34 -0700 (MST) From: Susan L Wenger To: Sociology Graduate Students -- International Subject: Re: Virtual Identities and Communities ...refs ??? In-Reply-To: <3373FE7F.1FA5@csc.canterbury.ac.nz> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Sat, 10 May 1997, Ocean wrote: > There is so much new literature in this field. I would really > appriciate it if anyone could tell me of any interesting articles etc. > Or alternativley, if you knew of different discussions, veiwpoints, > arguments. A good book to start with is _Life on the Screen_ by Sherry Turkle. --Susan From TR.Young@uvm.edu Sat May 10 06:54:27 1997 Received: from smtpgate.uvm.edu (smtpgate.uvm.edu [132.198.101.121]) by csf.Colorado.EDU (8.7.6/8.7.3/CNS-4.0p) with SMTP id GAA12539 for ; Sat, 10 May 1997 06:54:26 -0600 (MDT) Date: Sat, 10 May 1997 06:54:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 8N9J6 (208.18.225.12) by smtpgate.uvm.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1a) with SMTP id <0.C2604670@smtpgate.uvm.edu>; Sat, 10 May 1997 8:54:24 -0400 Message-Id: <1.5.4.16.19970510085406.34173208@pop.uvm.edu> X-Sender: tryoung@pop.uvm.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: TEACHSOC@maple.lemoyne.edu From: TR Young Subject: Teaching Marx Cc: socgrad@csf.colorado.edu I have taught marxist social theory for two decades or more to several thousand students. And I teach sections on marxian theory in every course I offer from social problems to criminology to racism to gender relations to social psycholiogy and to the philosophy of science and the sociology of knowledge. I have to say that Marx is a revelation for most students...and a powerful intellectual tool with which to understand how the social life world in which they live, learn, love and work is distorted by class relations. While it is true that students come into a course with pre-set under- standings of Marx, of socialism, of communism and of radical consciousness in general, there are some things one may do to unfreeze these pre-judgments and allow students to take another look. This is what I do to that purpose: 1. I make sure that I begin with the positivities of capitalism. US students benefit greatly from their position in both the national and the international stratification of wealth and power...it is little use to say that capitalism is unreservedly evil. 2. Then I set the many negativities of class stratification side by side with those positive consequences of capitalism. Students are able to see that many of the virtues of capitalism transform into negativities for others. That capitalism is the most productive economic system in human history thus is put into larger perspective with the effects that profit-making and taking have upon pollution, upon depletion of raw materials, upon the displacement of human value by market value. 3. I concede with easy acceptance the negativities of bureaucratic socialism of the sort they see and saw in Eastern Europe. Then I set those negative qualities against many of the gains for women, for workers, for students, for ethnic minor- ities in various countries which try and tried bureaucratic socialism. 4. Then I talk about other forms/models of worker ownership and worker control of the means of production as well as other places where socialism is tried and works better than in the old Soviet Union. Italian cities, the Mondragon co-ops in Spain, Kerala State in India as well as Cuba offer hope for a better socialism than we have so far seen. 5. One must never reify Marx and turn him into deity...as so often I see in the CLASS network of which I am member. Marx is dead. We are not. If Marx were alive, he would 'read' with his great genius, the many changes in the world today; he would contemplate the many changes in the philosophy of science; he would consider the many postmodernisms which now lay before us like a strange and unknown forest...and he would offer us guide...would warn us away from those which defeat the enquiring spirit which marked so well his work in the last century. 6. Finally, those of us who teach Marx must honor the readings and teachings of those who look at patriarchy and see an oppression far older than capitalism, feudalism or bureau- cratic socialism. Those who look at the structure of age grades and see both young and old discarded as surplus to the human project are our good colleagues in the pursuit of social justice. Those who look at gender relations and see dozens, hundreds, thousands of patterns rather than the binary gendering now presented as natural and normal...these are also our close colleagues and partners in pursuit of social life worlds of our own making...as was the larger task to which Marx set himself. Students don't need gods to worship...they need ideas with which to know and to work. Marx remains most helpful to that purpose...as do we all who look at society and see structures of domination which make us, all, smaller than need we be. TR Young TR Young Sociology U/Vermont TR.Young@uvm.edu From conroyt@bu.edu Sat May 10 09:32:32 1997 Received: from acs4.bu.edu (ACS4.BU.EDU [128.197.154.40]) by csf.Colorado.EDU (8.7.6/8.7.3/CNS-4.0p) with ESMTP id JAA16950 for ; Sat, 10 May 1997 09:32:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from conroyt@localhost) by acs4.bu.edu (8.8.4/) id LAA133356; Sat, 10 May 1997 11:30:52 -0400 Date: Sat, 10 May 1997 11:30:52 -0400 (EDT) From: thomas conroy Sender: thomas conroy Reply-To: thomas conroy Subject: a comment about Jonathan Turner and ideology To: list Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Some of the previous posts (mine included) mentioned Jonathan Turner as an example of a style of sociological theory which dispenses with broad bodies of work which don't fit with a more narrow, neo-positivistic agenda. While I don't necessarily fault Turner for taking the stance that he does, and even find him to be something of a curious throwback in this post-modernistic day and age (imagine, a conservative neo-positivist looking for evolutionary linkages between human and primate sociaties and feeling the need for hypathetico-deductive social "laws"; it's as though Herbert Spencer were with us still), my take on his work - and its prominence - in the context of the discussion of ideology suggests the following: 1. That both ideology and the relative prestige of different disciplines (and/or different methodologies) are both essential to understanding the recipiency of social science work, particularly its theoretical claims; intellectual work (be it art, science or philosphy) which fucks with the status quo is more likely to be misunderstood and/or badly recieved by that status quo than work which does not; sociological work which appears more socially SCIENTIFIC and cumulative has, from the Keynsian 1930s through the Parsonian 1950s and 1960s, been more likely to be seen as worthy of institutional support and as representative of the discipline. The ASA has long been complicit in this; to read the bulk of ASA publications you'd figure we're all doing the same sort of number crunching policy analysis. 2. Turner's positivism holds to an image of social science as the interdiscipinary study of law governed structures, rather than the study of meaningful, rule governed activity; while this is likely more an epistemological than an ideological choice, some of the roots of this focus on "structure," as well as the dichotomizing of "structure" and "agency" come out of the ideological wars between 19th century liberalism (individualism) and the more collectivist ideology of socialism. 3. For Turner, even the micro level of activity is "structured" as a series of patterned "exchanges." Classical economics' "homo economicus" and Turner's "homo sociologicus" are rather similar beasts. Again, though more conceptual than ideological, to reduce the multiplicity of human actions to one or even a few "patterns" can have, perhaps unintended, consequences, including ideological ones. 4. Finally, that fact that such diverse thinkers as Turner, Michel Foucault, Jurgen Habermas, Donna Haroway, and Cornel West can all be considered social theorists suggests that theory is no one thing, with no one purpose and, perhaps, no foundation in anything other than discourse. It is easy to see how conservatives might be dispensed to dismiss theory as simply idle talk aimed at undermining established conventions. However, of course, conservatives have their theories, too, no matter how crude they may be. In other words, at times the politically driven are doing politics while employing theories to serve this purpose. But this then distinguishes a theory in itself and the use of the theory. Though meaning is use, in the Wittgensteinian sense, the uses of theory can be multifold. Well, just a little food for thought. Tom Conroy Boston University From rgriffin@wsu.edu Sat May 10 11:02:12 1997 Received: from cheetah.it.wsu.edu (cheetah.it.wsu.edu [134.121.1.8]) by csf.Colorado.EDU (8.7.6/8.7.3/CNS-4.0p) with ESMTP id LAA20536 for ; Sat, 10 May 1997 11:02:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rgriffin.yakama.wsu.edu (apt242195.yakama.wsu.edu [134.121.242.195]) by cheetah.it.wsu.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id KAA29960 for ; Sat, 10 May 1997 10:02:05 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 10 May 1997 10:02:05 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199705101702.KAA29960@cheetah.it.wsu.edu> X-Sender: rgriffin@mail.wsu.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Sociology Graduate Students -- International From: Rob Griffin Subject: Re: Virtual Identities and Communities ...refs ??? At 03:38 AM 5/10/97 -0700, Susan L Wenger wrote: >On Sat, 10 May 1997, Ocean wrote: > >> There is so much new literature in this field. I would really >> appriciate it if anyone could tell me of any interesting articles etc. >> Or alternativley, if you knew of different discussions, veiwpoints, >> arguments. > > >A good book to start with is _Life on the Screen_ by Sherry Turkle. Also, while I don't have the URLs handy anymore, there's a substantial amount of papers and syllabi online on this and other web-based soc topics. --Rob http://www.wsu.edu:8080/~rgriffin "Children may be a blessing, but they can also appear to be God's rather warped idea of a practical joke." From lvf4m@server1.mail.virginia.edu Sat May 10 13:09:56 1997 Received: from mail.virginia.edu (mail.Virginia.EDU [128.143.2.9]) by csf.Colorado.EDU (8.7.6/8.7.3/CNS-4.0p) with SMTP id NAA24499 for ; Sat, 10 May 1997 13:09:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from server2.mail.virginia.edu by mail.virginia.edu id aa14020; 10 May 97 15:09 EDT Received: from bootp-141-232.bootp.Virginia.EDU (bootp-141-232.bootp.Virginia.EDU [128.143.141.232]) by server2.mail.virginia.edu (8.8.5/8.6.6) with SMTP id PAA03649 for ; Sat, 10 May 1997 15:08:36 -0400 (EDT) From: Lisa Vivian-Marie Friel Sender: lvf4m@server1.mail.virginia.edu To: socgrad@csf.colorado.edu Subject: re: questions Message-ID: Date: Sat, 10 May 1997 15:09:49 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication: IMSP MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Greetings, and a special hello to my pal Danielle! Without an extended bio - I'm just finishing my first year as a soci grad (MA) at UVA interested in theoretical perspectives of sexual behavior. Danielle's comments prompted my first posting. While some may cringe at it, Donald Black's paradigm is a must know (in my humble opinion) for one desiring a more comprehensive theoretical approach. Even if you disagree with his dependent variable being purely social, his five dimensions of social space synthesize much of social theory. The dimensions are - vertical status, horizontal status (morphology ~ relational distance), organization, normative, and social control. Location in this social space predicts a quantified, social, dependent variable. For example, Black has a proposition that law varies directly with relational distance = spousal homicide attracts less law than stranger homicide. Black's idea of dimensions at least provides order to the multitude of social variables and is framed for inclusion of new dimensions and variables, and application to other areas of social life. While he would say that phenomenology is not sociology but socio-psychology (and thus not an appropriate dimension or variable), the idea of dimensions may be a starting point. Since I must be the good grad student and cite everything: His work centers on law and social control: _The Behavior of Law_ outlines his theory, and an article in (I think) Law and Social Inquiry, "The Epistemology of Pure Sociology" (1995) responds to critiques of his paradigm. For the bold at heart, the latter is a fun read. I would love to hear comments on Black's theory by those familiar with his work, or questions from the newly initiated. I'm off to slave on a paper for Mr. Black! Lisa ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Lisa Friel Graduate Student, Teaching Assistant University of Virginia Department of Sociology Office: 804/924-6529 Home: 804/979-2821 Email: lvf4m@virginia.edu "It's more fun with two." Winnie-The-Pooh From tombrown@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu Sat May 10 15:19:58 1997 Received: from jhuml2.hcf.jhu.edu (jhuml2.hcf.jhu.edu [128.220.2.87]) by csf.Colorado.EDU (8.7.6/8.7.3/CNS-4.0p) with ESMTP id PAA27393 for ; Sat, 10 May 1997 15:19:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu by jhmail.hcf.jhu.edu (PMDF V5.0-7 #13870) id <01IIPNNLPMIO94DNWL@jhmail.hcf.jhu.edu> for socgrad@csf.colorado.edu; Sat, 10 May 1997 17:19:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu by jhmail.hcf.jhu.edu (PMDF V5.0-7 #13870) id <01IIPNNKPTTO934PI8@jhmail.hcf.jhu.edu> for socgrad@csf.colorado.edu; Sat, 10 May 1997 17:18:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu by jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu id <1075-2>; Sat, 10 May 1997 17:18:54 -0400 Date: Sat, 10 May 1997 17:18:45 -0400 From: Thomas F Brown Subject: Re: questions To: socgrad@csf.colorado.edu Message-id: <97May10.171854edt.1075-2@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu> Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT >I don't have a problem with that, but there >is a feeling among some of the students here that it might hurt your >grades if you disagree with this way of thinking. You're in grad school now--you can stop obsessing over grades. Continuing to obsess on grades will only inhibit your experience, as it seems to be doing in this situation. If you don't argue with your professors you won't get the full value of the grad skool experience. Argument is a way of life among intellectuals. As long as it doesn't get personal and abusive, then argument is something to value and seek out, not to avoid. It's the only way to float your original ideas and find out how they work. In fact, failing to argue with your professors might even hurt your reputation with them more than agreeing with everything they say, assuming you have a good argument to make. I'm not talking about contentious behavior; I mean a good exchange of ideas. If everybody agrees about everything, that indicates that some people probably aren't thinking things through very far. How seriously do other socgrads take their grades? I went to an undergrad school that used written evaluations instead of grades. When I took my first grad school essay test and it came back with numbers written on it instead of meaningful feedback I was pretty astonished and disgusted. Also, this school is largely a premed factory, and the undergrads here are grade-obsessive almost beyond belief. All TAs quickly learn never to give their home phone numbers to their students, unless they actually enjoy being harassed about grades at all hours. So maybe my perspective is a tad skewed.... From highflyr@earthlink.net Sat May 10 17:54:21 1997 Received: from norway.it.earthlink.net (norway-c.it.earthlink.net [204.119.177.49]) by csf.Colorado.EDU (8.7.6/8.7.3/CNS-4.0p) with ESMTP id RAA03258 for ; Sat, 10 May 1997 17:54:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cyclonus (1Cust37.Max25.Atlanta.GA.MS.UU.NET [153.35.53.37]) by norway.it.earthlink.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA03413 for ; Sat, 10 May 1997 16:54:12 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199705102354.QAA03413@norway.it.earthlink.net> From: "Mark E. Tisdale" To: Subject: Re: Virtual Identities and Communities ...refs ??? Date: Sat, 10 May 1997 18:52:31 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, I'm a first year grad student in sociology at Auburn University, and I JUST subscribed to this list. I'm also considering doing my thesis on something to do with cyberspace, virtual communities, whatever. I had been working on a proposal for a class this quarter dealing with usenet, but I've decided to deep-six the idea. I still may try to find another topic in this area, however, as human interaction over the internet fascinates me. We had to do a project in our methods class as undergraduates. I graduated from Georgia Southwestern College - now Georgia Southwestern State University. Anyway, our school had JUST gotten hooked up to the internet, and I was doing the late-nighters on-line with lots of others. I ended up doing my project as a participant observation of chatting online. Anyway, I've collected some URL's that might be of interest to you. Here they are in no particular order: http://www.well.com/user/deucer/thesis.html http://www.sscnet.ucla.edu/soc/csoc/ http://www.clas.ufl.edu/anthro/scholarly/lost-in-cyberspace.html http://otal.umd.edu/~rccs/ http://www.vianet.net.au/~timn/thesis/index.html http://www.pscw.uva.nl/sociosite/TOPICS/WebSoc.html Good luck on finding a topic. I'm still hunting myself. Later, Mark ---------- > From: Ocean > To: Sociology Graduate Students -- International > Subject: Virtual Identities and Communities ...refs ??? > Date: Friday, May 09, 1997 11:50 PM > > Hi. > > If you've been reading your mail recently then you would have seen my > bio and how I'm doing a project on understanding virtual communities and > how we create virtual identities, within these communities, through > narratives. > > There is so much new literature in this field. I would really > appriciate it if anyone could tell me of any interesting articles etc. > Or alternativley, if you knew of different discussions, veiwpoints, > arguments etc. > > My research is still in the developmental stages and I am trying to > narrow my topic down. SO any info would be really cool at this stage of > the game! > > Thanks. > Belinda From BJR49@student.canterbury.ac.nz Sat May 10 18:13:59 1997 Received: from cantva.canterbury.ac.nz (cantva.canterbury.ac.nz [132.181.30.3]) by csf.Colorado.EDU (8.7.6/8.7.3/CNS-4.0p) with ESMTP id SAA03590 for ; Sat, 10 May 1997 18:13:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from bjr49.tacacs.canterbury.ac.nz ("port 1053"@bjr49.tacacs.canterbury.ac.nz) by csc.canterbury.ac.nz (PMDF V5.1-7 #17207) with SMTP id <01IIQRAIM44S8WX7H2@csc.canterbury.ac.nz> for socgrad@csf.colorado.edu; Sun, 11 May 1997 12:13:50 +1200 Date: Sun, 11 May 1997 12:06:06 +1300 From: Ocean Subject: Re: Virtual Identities and Communities ...refs ??? To: socgrad@csf.colorado.edu Message-id: <3374FF5E.59BC@csc.canterbury.ac.nz> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit References: <199705102354.QAA03413@norway.it.earthlink.net> Mark, Thanks for the useful URLs. Good luck with deciding your research topic. It sure is hard when it's such an expansive and exciting area. Keep in touch. Perhaps we could bounce some ideas off each other!!! It helps sometimes when figureing out different ideas. Belinda. Mark E. Tisdale wrote: > > Hi, > > I'm a first year grad student in sociology at Auburn University, and I JUST > subscribed to this list. I'm also considering doing my thesis on something > to do with cyberspace, virtual communities, whatever. I had been working > on a proposal for a class this quarter dealing with usenet, but I've > decided to deep-six the idea. I still may try to find another topic in > this area, however, as human interaction over the internet fascinates me. > We had to do a project in our methods class as undergraduates. I graduated > from Georgia Southwestern College - now Georgia Southwestern State > University. Anyway, our school had JUST gotten hooked up to the internet, > and I was doing the late-nighters on-line with lots of others. I ended up > doing my project as a participant observation of chatting online. Anyway, > I've collected some URL's that might be of interest to you. Here they are > in no particular order: > > http://www.well.com/user/deucer/thesis.html > > http://www.sscnet.ucla.edu/soc/csoc/ > > http://www.clas.ufl.edu/anthro/scholarly/lost-in-cyberspace.html > > http://otal.umd.edu/~rccs/ > > http://www.vianet.net.au/~timn/thesis/index.html > > http://www.pscw.uva.nl/sociosite/TOPICS/WebSoc.html > > Good luck on finding a topic. I'm still hunting myself. > > Later, > > Mark > > ---------- > > From: Ocean > > To: Sociology Graduate Students -- International > > > Subject: Virtual Identities and Communities ...refs ??? > > Date: Friday, May 09, 1997 11:50 PM > > > > Hi. > > > > If you've been reading your mail recently then you would have seen my > > bio and how I'm doing a project on understanding virtual communities and > > how we create virtual identities, within these communities, through > > narratives. > > > > There is so much new literature in this field. I would really > > appriciate it if anyone could tell me of any interesting articles etc. > > Or alternativley, if you knew of different discussions, veiwpoints, > > arguments etc. > > > > My research is still in the developmental stages and I am trying to > > narrow my topic down. SO any info would be really cool at this stage of > > the game! > > > > Thanks. > > Belinda From eschaefe@bach.helios.nd.edu Sat May 10 18:53:17 1997 Received: from bach.helios.nd.edu (bach.helios.nd.edu [129.74.216.1]) by csf.Colorado.EDU (8.7.6/8.7.3/CNS-4.0p) with ESMTP id SAA04028 for ; Sat, 10 May 1997 18:53:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (eschaefe@localhost) by bach.helios.nd.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id TAA16222 for ; Sat, 10 May 1997 19:53:13 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 10 May 1997 19:53:13 -0500 (EST) From: Beth Schaefer Caniglia Reply-To: Beth Schaefer Caniglia To: Sociology Graduate Students -- International Subject: Introduction & Stuff In-Reply-To: <97May10.171854edt.1075-2@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Hi Everyone, I've been away from this list for a while, so I thought I would introduce myself. I'm just finishing my fourth year in the soc department at Notre Dame - pretty cool department, well-known for providing four years of funding to incoming graduate students. My thesis used GSS data to analyze the socioeconomic and attitudinal predictors of environmental behavior (e.g. recycling, use of mass transit, joining environmental groups, etc.); and I survived area exams in organizations and social movements. In August, I'll be defending my dissertation proposal, which uses network analysis to explore the relationship between elite alliances (with United Nations agencies) and social network positions in a population of environmental transnational social movement organizations. Essentially, the question is whether organizations with elite alliances gain central, powerful or brokering positions among their peers. About a month ago, I received a lot of suggestions from members of this list regarding where to find cheap living accommodations in New York. Thanks to everyone who made suggestions! I ended up staying at the Carmelite Sister's house for women students on 14th Street, between 7th and 8th Ave. It cost $40 per day, with breakfast and dinner included. The sisters and the women students were very gracious, and the supper was outstanding! On a scale from 1-10, I'd give it a 7 - mostly because 8th Ave at 14th isn't the safest area (although there are clearly worse areas in NYC). If anyone's working on similar projects or interested in ND for graduate school, drop me a line. Beth ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Beth Schaefer Caniglia Office: (219) 631-6463 Department of Sociology Home: (219) 259-3723 University of Notre Dame Internet: eschaefe@bach.helios.nd.edu ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From lmiller@weber.ucsd.edu Sat May 10 20:06:44 1997 Received: from weber.ucsd.edu (weber.ucsd.edu [132.239.147.2]) by csf.Colorado.EDU (8.7.6/8.7.3/CNS-4.0p) with ESMTP id UAA06171 for ; Sat, 10 May 1997 20:06:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from lmiller@localhost) by weber.ucsd.edu (8.8.3/8.8.3) id TAA00704 for socgrad@csf.colorado.edu; Sat, 10 May 1997 19:06:42 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 10 May 1997 19:06:42 -0700 (PDT) From: Laura Miller Message-Id: <199705110206.TAA00704@weber.ucsd.edu> To: socgrad@csf.colorado.edu Subject: how to leave socgrad Socgraders who were originally on the Texas list may be confused about bureaucratic procedures. What follows is a message we periodically post about unsubscribing. Other information can be obtained by sending a help message to listproc@csf.colorado.edu or a more personalized message to one of the managers. Too much email in your life? If you want to unsubscribe from Socgrad, send a message to: listproc@csf.colorado.edu and in the body of your message, type: unsub socgrad Remember to send the message to listproc, NOT to Socgrad itself. Any problems or questions can be directed to: lmiller@ucsd.edu or glenn@sobek.colorado.edu or bobwold@mail.utexas.edu From TR.Young@uvm.edu Sun May 11 05:05:02 1997 Received: from smtpgate.uvm.edu (smtpgate.uvm.edu [132.198.101.121]) by csf.Colorado.EDU (8.7.6/8.7.3/CNS-4.0p) with SMTP id FAA19291; Sun, 11 May 1997 05:05:00 -0600 (MDT) Date: Sun, 11 May 1997 05:05:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 8N9J6 (208.18.225.31) by smtpgate.uvm.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1a) with SMTP id <0.A2F2AA70@smtpgate.uvm.edu>; 11 May 1997 7:04:58 -0400 Message-Id: <1.5.4.16.19970511070441.41171e56@pop.uvm.edu> X-Sender: tryoung@pop.uvm.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: ahs-talk@ncsu.edu From: TR Young Subject: Three Poems for Your Mother Cc: socgrad@csf.colorado.edu Mary Cassatt lived and worked in France...her art is a tribute to all women in their most intimate moments as mother, friend, sister and artist. I have written two volumes of poem in honor of that work. Below are three poems which catch some of the powerful magic which binds the child to the mother. Each poem reflects one of Cassatt's paintings...while I can't send the painting itself, I can send a bit about it...those of you who know her work may recall her art. With all good love, TRYoung *************** > > A Mother's Touch > > Although > the memory > of this child > is very short > and does not > contain too much; > > Yet there has never > been a time > when this child > did not know > nor respond with simple trust > to a mother's loving touch. > 16. Mother Combing Her Child's Hair (c. 190 1 ). Cassatt's mother-and-child compositions became more >complex with the passing years. Mirrors appear in a number of them; here the mirror produces a double portrait. >It has been said that Cassatt's conception of women as humanity's civilizing force is what is primarily expressed in >many of these works, including this one. (The Brooklyn Museum) ****************** > A Baby's Bath > >Only her mother >can do these things; >cut her hair >bathe her feet >dry her eyes >lick her face >kiss her toes >and tell her, No. > >Only a mother >can treat the baby's body >as if it were part >of her own. > >Only a mother >can make or move >a child do things >not wished nor wanted >by the child >without force >or bribe or shout >or guile. > >Only a mother >can bring light >and love into the night >with her loving >and unthinking smile. > >6. The Bath (1891-92). One of Cassatt's most admired works, The Bath is unique in her work for color and composition. >(The Art Institute of Chicago) > *******************> > >The Edge of Thought > > Resting at the edge of thought >a fine young girl >begins to see a time >when unafraid >she shall leave >a mother's lap >for worlds unknown >uncut, unsewn >and there, perchance, >create and trace >a woman's life >which one can wear >with pride and grace. > >19. Young Mother Sewing (1902). The child gazing out so openly seems to be Margot (see no. 9), who appears in several works in 1902. The mother's face is just as beautifully rendered. (The Metropolitan Museum of Art, New York) > > >TR Young@Cmich.edu> TR Young Sociology U/Vermont TR.Young@uvm.edu From TR.Young@uvm.edu Sun May 11 07:19:17 1997 Received: from smtpgate.uvm.edu (smtpgate.uvm.edu [132.198.101.121]) by csf.Colorado.EDU (8.7.6/8.7.3/CNS-4.0p) with SMTP id HAA22344 for ; Sun, 11 May 1997 07:19:15 -0600 (MDT) Date: Sun, 11 May 1997 07:19:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 8N9J6 (208.18.225.4) by smtpgate.uvm.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1a) with SMTP id <0.639140E0@smtpgate.uvm.edu>; 11 May 1997 9:19:12 -0400 Message-Id: <1.5.4.16.19970511091854.41170522@pop.uvm.edu> X-Sender: tryoung@pop.uvm.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: socgrad@csf.colorado.edu From: TR Young Subject: Teaching Criminology This will be the last in a series of mini-lectures for members of Socgrad Network. This marks the end of the third year I have had the pleasure to share some new ideas about science and sociology with sociology grad students around the world. As promised last year, I will put all future mini-lectures on my home page for members. The Home Page is presently at U/Vermont with a link to Oklahoma State where Christina Myers has archived them. For those of you who might have missed earlier lectures that address is: http://www.okstate.edu/gopher-data/Academic_Services/ sociology/.html/00.htm ****************** Part I: Teaching Criminology: A Critique of Theory and Theorists. Many of the theories now used and taught in criminology courses around the country are worse than useless...as bad theory, they ground bad social policy. Some of the theories of crime are good enough on their own terms but fail as theories of and only of crime. In this mini-lecture, I would like to critique some of these theories and, in later mini-lectures, offer other ways to understand crime; other ways to ground social policy for the future. 1. Beccaria and Bentham. Both taught that the solution to crime was swift, sure and for Bentham severe punishment. There are several points to consider: a. Many people, dedicated to a given goal, continue on in the face of the most serious and certain threat of pain, torture, prison and/or death. Much in the way of political crime flies in the face of this view of crime and its control. b. The monitoring apparatus and adjudication process with which such a view could be implemented would drain the resources of even the wealthiest country. One would have to monitor the behavior of everyone all the time; have the capacity to catch, try and execute the [proportional] sentence within days if not hours. c. The obverse of such a view; that sure, certain and swift rewards for pro-social behavior...this view is seldom brought forward in crim texts nor is it often used to ground social policy. d. Finally, the social psychology of what constitutes crime, what constitutes punishment, what constitutes swift and what constitutes proportional are culturally variable. 2. Physiological theories. There are a wide range of physiological theories from I.Q. to body type to PMS which are adduced to explain a variety of behaviors defined as criminal. The truth value of these theories vary from weak to none. Body type, as a theory of crime is not worth the ink given it. PMS is a sexist backlash at those women who break out of the Suzy Sweetheart modality and express anger and embody violence toward gender roles and gender privilege. I.Q. deserves a bit of time.... a. First there are many I.Q.s available to all human beings...not just cognitive and logical reasoning. To try to track all human behaviors using two or three intelligences/problem solving capacities is simple minded...a bit like trying to fit all crimes into one or two causal patterns. b. 'Tis true enough that there are a lot of dumb people in prison but one should not conflate between ignorance and stupidity. 'Tis stupid to do so. c. Most of the people who are ignorant enough to find themselves in prison suggest that those who are bright succeed in avoiding prison. The implication is not that stupidity and crime vary together but rather that smart criminals stay out of the population from which such theories are induced. d. While one can use stupidity cum I.Q. as post hoc explanation for those in prison for street crime, much of the most profitable crime is found in white collar circles, in corporate boardrooms and in the higher echelons of politics. If anything, crime correlates with high I.Q. for the most successful criminals. e. There are better ways to explain crime than using a questionable physical/ psychology...as we shall see. C. Freudian theory. Freudian theory is a lot of fun and most rewarding to those of us who like to label our friends as oral incorporative, anal expulsive, anxious about castration or envious of our penises. And it may have some small truth value in societies where father is a tyrant...i.e., in patriarchal societies. But one should not confuse between culture and psychology. If men grow up hating women and end up slashing them, the solution is not psycho-analysis but rather an end to such paternal parenting...n'cest pas?? C. Differential Association Theory. Perhaps the most venerable theory in American criminology is Sutherland's Differential Association Theory. The theory is valid on two levels but useless on the largest level. a. First people do respond to those with whom they associate most frequently. One does not need DAT to know that; primary group theory, peer group theory, significant others and the looking glass process say pretty much the same thing. b. Then too, when there is an excess of definitions favoring crime over those favoring pro-social behavior, again within primary groups, such differencs are likely to shape and pre-shape behavior...all role theory argues the point. c. Differential Association theory is equally true for priests, physicians, professors of sociology as for prostitutes or for professional theieves. DAT is a good theory of all social behavior...not just crime. d. Differential Association theory begs the question why our buddies are out there urging us on to crime; to shoplifting, to car theft, to pushing of drugs, to arson, to bar-room brawls and or to murder most foul. If we want to answer these questions, we can't use DAT. D. Labelling theory has the same strengths and the same flaws as does Differential Association theory. People labelled priests are much more likely to do priestly things than those of us who are not so labelled. Those of us who do a bit of gardening, a bit of healing, a bit of traveling may be labelled gardeners, healers and travellers by a goodly number of people but becoming deeply involved such that labels are likely to be used takes a lot of pre-existing activity with skills, resources as well as a bit of history before people begin to pick up on it. Again, labelling theory is good social psychology but doesn't focus upon the question why we have been at such activity long enough for it to become public knowledge. Sorry Charles. E. Durkheim, Merton and Anomie. Durkheim remains a pillar in social theory. That he got it wrong on one point does not thereby invalidate other points especially those in the sociology of religion. Anomie means normlessness...lots of problems when one appeals to normlessness as a source of crime in general and mischief in particular. a. Anomie most often means that some people are not socialized to our norms. The use of drugs is case in point. In our culture, we restrict the use of alcohol to adult males in those dramas of the holy which generate social solidarity...mechanical solidarity among otherwise competing, hostile males. When other psychogens are used in other dramas of the holy, we label these as deviant and call those who use them criminals and/or addicts. b. A goodly bit of crime occurs within tightly enforced normative systems. Organized crime, corporate crime and political crime is highly normative. Indeed, if members of an organized theft/arson/drug group do not follow orders/commands/ rules/policy, they are in trouble. The same is true of corporate crime; if corporate officers do not engineer pollution/price fixing/commercial espionage, they are not rewarded. If employees do not carry out company policy, they are replaced. The same is true of political crime. In the army, marines, air force or CIA, one follows orders or one is in trouble. That the orders are, in both technical and in substantive terms, criminal are no excuse for in corporate boardroom or in divisional headquarters. c. Those truly normless do not have the time, energy, resources or support for a wide variety of crime. In his study of the Ik, Colin Trumbull made a good case that, after Milton Obote nationalized traditional hunting lands as national park for european tourists, the Ik became normless...these was some truth value to that analysis...little similar is found in the USA...and the USA has the highest crime rate, the highest percentage of people in prison, the most mean-spirited prisons among all developed countries. d. When we are normless, we turn to others for help, guidence and support. The 1952 tornado in Flint resulted in overwhelming support...a few people looted, but most of us involved helped rebuild. The 1997 floods in Minnesota produce the same generous outpouring of help and sympathy. The connection between normlessness and criminal behavior is not at all tight enough upon which to ground either theory or policy. E. One of the most despicable theories of crime is Control Theory. The USA has some ten well organized control systems yet people routinely engage in a wide variety of crime. The Criminal Justice System, the Private Security System, the Federal Regulatory Agencies, the state welfare system, INS and the Military Justice System join with these and a growing medical control system as well as the traditional juridical processes in organized religion to control and over-control people. Social justice is probably a better route to a low-crime society than is more prisons, more police, longer sentences, harsher prison conditions, full term policy and/or mean guards and wardens. F. Marxist theory. In subsequent part of the series, I will rely on some elements of marxist theory but there are several cautions I want to have up front: a. Marxist theory does not cover a lot of domestic violence, macho assault and/or most murder. Patriarchy is a better place to start; better than class relations...these two interact to be sure but gender violence has its own unique dynamics. b. Most of those who teach marxist theory as source of crime...and in my opinion, it is, still there are non-linear dynamics in which causality fades and fails. Mechanical links, formal theory, logical deductions and hypothetical predictions cannot be trusted when causal fields expand; when uncertainty increases, when critical variables exceed crucial limits. All this is new to science in general, criminology in particular and marxian theory in especial. Social dynamics are far more complex than any theory can say. c. One should be careful to keep levels of analysis distinct. If we conflate levels, it becomes easy to justify the criminality of street thugs and corporate mugs. However deep an economic depression becomes, still one need not steal from one's neighbors. However hard it is to get a decent job, still one need not sell drugs to children still less prostitute them to sexually inadequate adults. I shall make a case that capitalism, in spite of its many valuable accomplishments, promotes five kinds of crime...the operative word, is promotes...I do not want to use the word, causes, since most people presume a linearity in the word. I don't but those socialized to newtonian physics, aristotlean logic, leibnizean calculus, carnapian reasoning and to formal, axiomatic theory do so presume. The new sciences of chaos and complexity reduce the range of such epistemological tools. So, in future mini- lectures, keep in mind, the notion of 'tendency,' the idea of 'promote,' the implications of 'non-linearity' for both crime and social policy. There is order even in deeply chaotic social dynamics; there is the possibility of social policy in most non-linear social processes. But the hard, tight causality of modern science has but a small role to play in postmodern criminology. TR Young TR Young Sociology U/Vermont TR.Young@uvm.edu From flint@igc.apc.org Sun May 11 12:18:32 1997 Received: from igc7.igc.org (igc7.igc.apc.org [192.82.108.35]) by csf.Colorado.EDU (8.7.6/8.7.3/CNS-4.0p) with ESMTP id MAA29813 for ; Sun, 11 May 1997 12:18:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from igc2.igc.apc.org (root@igc2.igc.apc.org [192.82.108.39]) by igc7.igc.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA09934 for ; Sun, 11 May 1997 11:18:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from flint) by igc2.igc.apc.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA00598; Sun, 11 May 1997 11:18:02 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 11 May 1997 11:18:02 -0700 (PDT) From: Adam Flint To: socgrad@csf.colorado.edu cc: Sociology Graduate Students -- International Subject: Re: questions In-Reply-To: <199705092008.OAA23671@csf.Colorado.EDU> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII HI folks A few posts back, someone mentioned the existence of an archive for SOGRAD, and as I will soon have to sign off as I am going abrroad, I'd like to know how to access the archive, for when I want to get up to date. Thanks Adam Flint Sociology SUNY-Binghamton From DAVIDSON@UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU Sun May 11 16:21:48 1997 Received: from UConnVM.UConn.Edu (uconnvm.uconn.edu [137.99.26.3]) by csf.Colorado.EDU (8.7.6/8.7.3/CNS-4.0p) with SMTP id QAA10843 for ; Sun, 11 May 1997 16:21:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU by UConnVM.UConn.Edu (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with BSMTP id 0263; Sun, 11 May 97 18:21:45 EDT Received: from UConnVM.UConn.Edu (NJE origin DAVIDSON@UCONNVM) by UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU (LMail V1.2c/1.8c) with BSMTP id 5701; Sun, 11 May 1997 18:21:45 -0400 Date: Sun, 11 May 97 18:12:09 EDT From: Alan Subject: "Ideology" To: socgrad@CSF.COLORADO.EDU Message-Id: <970511.182144.EDT.DAVIDSON@UConnVM.UConn.Edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT I concur with the notion that folks shouldn't be afraid to confront Professors with whom one has theoretical or methodological disputes (then again, that might explain why I have been in graduate school since 1986). I do think that one reason for these sorts of disputes lies in the fact that primarily for organizational reasons, graduate training in sociology is based on learning "tools" by which to interrogate social reality, the tools being primarily methodological with the student being encouraged to root their research in whichever "paradigm" they know something about in order to make it theoretical. Graduate training, and the entire professional gatekeeping process isn't designed to encourage critical analysis about whether what we do and how we do it is actually worth doing -- one positive of the PoMo critique in the late 1980's is it attempted to force sociology to ask those questions (a critique which, I concur with Danielle in suggesting was pretty much purposely ignored as a "passing fad" here at UCONN). Where the real danger lies for sociology in all this is the dilemma of what happens when how we analyze the world is radically at odds with how the folks we study analyze the world -- especially in terms of what is important to study and what is important to ask? if there From DAVIDSON@UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU Sun May 11 16:34:50 1997 Received: from UConnVM.UConn.Edu (uconnvm.uconn.edu [137.99.26.3]) by csf.Colorado.EDU (8.7.6/8.7.3/CNS-4.0p) with SMTP id QAA12171 for ; Sun, 11 May 1997 16:34:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU by UConnVM.UConn.Edu (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with BSMTP id 0298; Sun, 11 May 97 18:34:43 EDT Received: from UConnVM.UConn.Edu (NJE origin DAVIDSON@UCONNVM) by UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU (LMail V1.2c/1.8c) with BSMTP id 6155; Sun, 11 May 1997 18:34:44 -0400 Date: Sun, 11 May 97 18:33:56 EDT From: Alan Subject: Society for Applied Sociology (fwd) To: socgrad@CSF.COLORADO.EDU Message-Id: <970511.183443.EDT.DAVIDSON@UConnVM.UConn.Edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- Date: Sat, 10 May 1997 07:42:29 -0700 From: "Stephen F. Steele" Reply-To: TEACHSOC@maple.lemoyne.edu Subject: SAS MEETING: CALL FOR PARTICIPATION - EARLY REGISTRATION- SAVINGS! -- 1997 Annual Meeting BURSTING THE BOUNDARIES: New Theories and Methods in Applied Sociology 15th Annual Meeting of the Society for Applied Sociology Hyatt Regency Oak Brook, Oak Brook, IL October 30 - November 2, 1997 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Call for Participation --------------------------------------------------------------------------- THE CONFERENCE THEME: As the world around us changes rapidly, so must applied sociology. We can no longer rely on standard theories and research methods to provide the answers needed to answer critical questions. During the 1997 meetings, we plan to open a discussion on the ways that new theories such as chaos/complexity theory and methods such as ethnomethodology can help applied sociologists provide better solutions to the problems they research. THE PROGRAM: The program will contain a diverse collection of papers and presentations. More importantly, we will offer a number of workshops and other types of professional training sessions. Both academic and non-academic sociologists will find that SAS welcomes their contributions to the discipline. WE ENCOURAGE STUDENTS! Graduate and undergraduates students find our professional meetings friendly and supportive. We offer a student mentoring program, a paper competition, workshops on job seeking and opportunities to fully take part in out program. SUBMIT YOUR PROPOSAL NOW! Submit your proposal on the SAS web pages on URL: http://www.indiana.edu/~appsoc/97meetng.htm Click on Call for Participation OR request a submission by email: ssteele@clark.net FOR MORE INFORMATION: Explore the breadth of the application of sociology. Types of proposals: paper, panels, workshops, roundtable and other formats. Deadline for papers, presentations and special sessions is June 30, 1997. Contact: Steve Steele Acting Executive Officer, Society for Applied Sociology Anne Arundel Community College Division of Social Sciences 101 College Parkway Arnold, MD 21012 or Call 410-541-2369 Fax 410-541-2239 email: ssteele@clark.net ---------------------------------------- From watterwo@sobek.Colorado.EDU Sun May 11 22:54:43 1997 Received: from sobek.Colorado.EDU (sobek.Colorado.EDU [128.138.151.62]) by csf.Colorado.EDU (8.7.6/8.7.3/CNS-4.0p) with ESMTP id WAA25049 for ; Sun, 11 May 1997 22:54:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from watterwo@localhost) by sobek.Colorado.EDU (8.8.5/8.8.5/Unixops/Hesiod/(SDM)) id WAA19372; Sun, 11 May 1997 22:54:37 -0600 (MDT) Date: Sun, 11 May 1997 22:54:36 -0600 (MDT) From: Jay Watterworth To: Beth Schaefer Caniglia cc: socgrad@csf.colorado.edu Subject: Re: Introduction & Stuff In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Beth, You might consider joining the e-mail list, PSN (progressive sociologists network). They might offer you some information in your field. I is run out of the University of Colorado, but has a world-wide base. Folks are more than helpful in supplying information. If you would like subscription info, drop me a line. There is also TEACHSOC which is a wonderful source of information on teaching sociology on a number of levels. Sounds like you have your work cut out for you. Jay Watterworth On Sat, 10 May 1997, Beth Schaefer Caniglia wrote: > Hi Everyone, > > I've been away from this list for a while, so I thought I would introduce > myself. I'm just finishing my fourth year in the soc department at Notre > Dame - pretty cool department, well-known for providing four years of > funding to incoming graduate students. My thesis used GSS data to analyze > the socioeconomic and attitudinal predictors of environmental behavior > (e.g. recycling, use of mass transit, joining environmental groups, etc.); > and I survived area exams in organizations and social movements. In > August, I'll be defending my dissertation proposal, which uses network > analysis to explore the relationship between elite alliances (with United > Nations agencies) and social network positions in a population of > environmental transnational social movement organizations. Essentially, > the question is whether organizations with elite alliances gain central, > powerful or brokering positions among their peers. > > About a month ago, I received a lot of suggestions from members of this > list regarding where to find cheap living accommodations in New York. > Thanks to everyone who made suggestions! I ended up staying at the > Carmelite Sister's house for women students on 14th Street, between 7th > and 8th Ave. It cost $40 per day, with breakfast and dinner included. > The sisters and the women students were very gracious, and the supper was > outstanding! On a scale from 1-10, I'd give it a 7 - mostly because 8th > Ave at 14th isn't the safest area (although there are clearly worse areas > in NYC). > > If anyone's working on similar projects or interested in ND for graduate > school, drop me a line. > > Beth > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Beth Schaefer Caniglia Office: (219) 631-6463 > Department of Sociology Home: (219) 259-3723 > University of Notre Dame Internet: eschaefe@bach.helios.nd.edu > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > > From DAVIDSON@UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU Mon May 12 07:24:32 1997 Received: from UConnVM.UConn.Edu (uconnvm.uconn.edu [137.99.26.3]) by csf.Colorado.EDU (8.7.6/8.7.3/CNS-4.0p) with SMTP id HAA09927 for ; Mon, 12 May 1997 07:24:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU by UConnVM.UConn.Edu (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with BSMTP id 0205; Mon, 12 May 97 09:24:29 EDT Received: from UConnVM.UConn.Edu (NJE origin DAVIDSON@UCONNVM) by UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU (LMail V1.2c/1.8c) with BSMTP id 7605; Mon, 12 May 1997 09:24:29 -0400 Date: Mon, 12 May 97 09:15:38 EDT From: Alan Subject: Re: "Ideology" To: Dale Albers , socgrad@CSF.COLORADO.EDU, Alan In-Reply-To: Message-Id: <970512.092429.EDT.DAVIDSON@UConnVM.UConn.Edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT What Postmodernism is is more of a critique than it is an actual technique. It basically attempts to recast what is knowable and what is worth asking by tying social science to discourse (how things are talked about), both the discourse of sociologists and the discourse of those we study. The most direct root in America is Ethnomethodology and the interactionist sociology of science, the most direct roots in Europe being Critical Theory and French Structuralism. It usually takes the form of critically analyzing how the discourses we use (and people use) when dealing with reality guides what people consider worth asking and paying attention to -- basically viewing the conduct of science as more of an interpretive process than as an application of a set of hard and fast rules. From glenn@sobek.Colorado.EDU Mon May 12 08:09:55 1997 Received: from sobek.Colorado.EDU (sobek.Colorado.EDU [128.138.151.62]) by csf.Colorado.EDU (8.7.6/8.7.3/CNS-4.0p) with ESMTP id IAA11190 for ; Mon, 12 May 1997 08:09:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from glenn@localhost) by sobek.Colorado.EDU (8.8.5/8.8.5/Unixops/Hesiod/(SDM)) id IAA21811; Mon, 12 May 1997 08:09:53 -0600 (MDT) Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 08:09:53 -0600 (MDT) From: "Glenn W. Muschert" To: socgrad@csf.colorado.edu Subject: Re: Introduction & Stuff In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Hi everyone, If you want information about any of the other lists ont he CSF server, including PSN, visit the follwoing web site: http://csf.colorado.edu/listproc.html >From this site, you can get information and/or join any of the lists. Glenn On Sun, 11 May 1997, Jay Watterworth wrote: > Beth, > You might consider joining the e-mail list, PSN (progressive sociologists > network). They might offer you some information in your field. I is run > out of the University of Colorado, but has a world-wide base. From M.AMOAH@lse.ac.uk Mon May 12 08:21:28 1997 Received: from res.lse.ac.uk (res.lse.ac.uk [158.143.96.63]) by csf.Colorado.EDU (8.7.6/8.7.3/CNS-4.0p) with ESMTP id IAA11937 for ; Mon, 12 May 1997 08:20:49 -0600 (MDT) From: M.AMOAH@lse.ac.uk Received: from smtplink.lse.ac.uk by res.lse.ac.uk with SMTP (PP); Mon, 12 May 1997 15:20:00 +0100 Received: from ccMail by smtplink.lse.ac.uk (SMTPLINK V2.11.01) id AA863472543; Mon, 12 May 97 19:12:44 GMT Date: Mon, 12 May 97 19:12:44 GMT Message-Id: <9704128634.AA863472543@smtplink.lse.ac.uk> To: socgrad@csf.colorado.edu Subject: Re: Society for Applied Sociology (fwd) Hi folks, what exactly is ethnomethodology as stated in the conference theme below? Thanks, Frisky. ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Society for Applied Sociology (fwd) Author: socgrad@csf.colorado.edu at :external_mail Date: 5/11/97 18:33 ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- Date: Sat, 10 May 1997 07:42:29 -0700 From: "Stephen F. Steele" Reply-To: TEACHSOC@maple.lemoyne.edu Subject: SAS MEETING: CALL FOR PARTICIPATION - EARLY REGISTRATION- SAVINGS! -- 1997 Annual Meeting BURSTING THE BOUNDARIES: New Theories and Methods in Applied Sociology 15th Annual Meeting of the Society for Applied Sociology Hyatt Regency Oak Brook, Oak Brook, IL October 30 - November 2, 1997 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Call for Participation --------------------------------------------------------------------------- THE CONFERENCE THEME: As the world around us changes rapidly, so must applied sociology. We can no longer rely on standard theories and research methods to provide the answers needed to answer critical questions. During the 1997 meetings, we plan to open a discussion on the ways that new theories such as chaos/complexity theory and methods such as ethnomethodology can help applied sociologists provide better solutions to the problems they research. THE PROGRAM: The program will contain a diverse collection of papers and presentations. More importantly, we will offer a number of workshops and other types of professional training sessions. Both academic and non-academic sociologists will find that SAS welcomes their contributions to the discipline. WE ENCOURAGE STUDENTS! Graduate and undergraduates students find our professional meetings friendly and supportive. We offer a student mentoring program, a paper competition, workshops on job seeking and opportunities to fully take part in out program. SUBMIT YOUR PROPOSAL NOW! Submit your proposal on the SAS web pages on URL: http://www.indiana.edu/~appsoc/97meetng.htm Click on Call for Participation OR request a submission by email: ssteele@clark.net FOR MORE INFORMATION: Explore the breadth of the application of sociology. Types of proposals: paper, panels, workshops, roundtable and other formats. Deadline for papers, presentations and special sessions is June 30, 1997. Contact: Steve Steele Acting Executive Officer, Society for Applied Sociology Anne Arundel Community College Division of Social Sciences 101 College Parkway Arnold, MD 21012 or Call 410-541-2369 Fax 410-541-2239 email: ssteele@clark.net ---------------------------------------- From DAVIDSON@UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU Mon May 12 08:26:21 1997 Received: from UConnVM.UConn.Edu (uconnvm.uconn.edu [137.99.26.3]) by csf.Colorado.EDU (8.7.6/8.7.3/CNS-4.0p) with SMTP id IAA12177 for ; Mon, 12 May 1997 08:26:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU by UConnVM.UConn.Edu (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with BSMTP id 0428; Mon, 12 May 97 10:26:17 EDT Received: from UConnVM.UConn.Edu (NJE origin DAVIDSON@UCONNVM) by UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU (LMail V1.2c/1.8c) with BSMTP id 2118; Mon, 12 May 1997 10:26:17 -0400 Date: Mon, 12 May 97 10:25:29 EDT From: Alan Subject: Ethnomethodology To: socgrad@CSF.COLORADO.EDU Message-Id: <970512.102616.EDT.DAVIDSON@UConnVM.UConn.Edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Ethnomethodology basically refers to understanding the meaning systems and procedures people use in doing what they do. From M.AMOAH@lse.ac.uk Mon May 12 09:01:12 1997 Received: from res.lse.ac.uk (res.lse.ac.uk [158.143.96.63]) by csf.Colorado.EDU (8.7.6/8.7.3/CNS-4.0p) with ESMTP id JAA13217 for ; Mon, 12 May 1997 09:01:09 -0600 (MDT) From: M.AMOAH@lse.ac.uk Received: from smtplink.lse.ac.uk by res.lse.ac.uk with SMTP (PP); Mon, 12 May 1997 16:00:24 +0100 Received: from ccMail by smtplink.lse.ac.uk (SMTPLINK V2.11.01) id AA863474934; Mon, 12 May 97 19:56:42 GMT Date: Mon, 12 May 97 19:56:42 GMT Message-Id: <9704128634.AA863474934@smtplink.lse.ac.uk> To: socgrad@csf.colorado.edu Subject: Re: Ethnomethodology You mean it's got nothing to do with ethinicity, ethnography and all the ethnic stuff? ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Ethnomethodology Author: socgrad@csf.colorado.edu at :external_mail Date: 5/12/97 10:25 Ethnomethodology basically refers to understanding the meaning systems and procedures people use in doing what they do. From jmccorke@UDel.Edu Mon May 12 09:24:30 1997 Received: from copland.udel.edu (copland.udel.edu [128.175.13.92]) by csf.Colorado.EDU (8.7.6/8.7.3/CNS-4.0p) with ESMTP id JAA14864 for ; Mon, 12 May 1997 09:24:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (jmccorke@localhost) by copland.udel.edu (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA03291 for ; Mon, 12 May 1997 11:24:10 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 11:24:10 -0400 (EDT) From: Jill Ann McCorkel To: Sociology Graduate Students -- International Subject: Re: a comment about Jonathan Turner and ideology In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Here, here Tom Conroy!!! I couldn't have said it better myself... Jill McCorkel University of Delaware From jjanosko@vt.edu Mon May 12 10:15:15 1997 Received: from quackerjack.cc.vt.edu (quackerjack.cc.vt.edu [198.82.160.250]) by csf.Colorado.EDU (8.7.6/8.7.3/CNS-4.0p) with ESMTP id KAA17348 for ; Mon, 12 May 1997 10:15:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sable.cc.vt.edu (sable.cc.vt.edu [128.173.16.30]) by quackerjack.cc.vt.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA21741 for ; Mon, 12 May 1997 12:15:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from Default ([151.199.67.121]) by sable.cc.vt.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA32274 for ; Mon, 12 May 1997 12:15:08 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199705121615.MAA32274@sable.cc.vt.edu> X-Sender: jjanosko@mail.vt.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 12:15:15 +0600 To: socgrad@csf.colorado.edu From: Jeff Janosko Subject: Re: Ethnomethodology I think Alan's definition of ethnomethodology is essentially correct, but too general. Certainly, ethnomethodology is the study of phenomena from the perspective of the participant. That perspective, however, is profoundly influenced by one's social location; so, "all that ethnic stuff" is significant. A discussion of phenomenology may help you to better understand ethnomethodology. Basically, phenomenology views reality in terms of subjective experience. In this sense, there are multiple realities; reality is constituted by one's view of it. Ethnomethodology is related to phenomenology. Ethnomethodologists, however, are particularly interested in the ways that people produce meaning. In other words, individuals do not create their views of reality in a vacuum; they utilize systems of meaning that they create through interaction with others. You should read _The Social Construction of Reality_ by Berger and Luckmann for a detailed discussion of ethnomethodology. Jeff At 07:56 PM 5/12/97 GMT, you wrote: > You mean it's got nothing to do with ethinicity, ethnography > and all the ethnic stuff? > > >______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ >Subject: Ethnomethodology >Author: socgrad@csf.colorado.edu at :external_mail >Date: 5/12/97 10:25 > > >Ethnomethodology basically refers to understanding the meaning systems and >procedures people use in doing what they do. > > From conroyt@bu.edu Mon May 12 10:39:30 1997 Received: from acs4.bu.edu (ACS4.BU.EDU [128.197.154.40]) by csf.Colorado.EDU (8.7.6/8.7.3/CNS-4.0p) with ESMTP id KAA18700 for ; Mon, 12 May 1997 10:39:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from conroyt@localhost) by acs4.bu.edu (8.8.4/) id MAA55156; Mon, 12 May 1997 12:38:22 -0400 Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 12:38:21 -0400 (EDT) From: thomas conroy Subject: Re: Ethnomethodology To: socgrad@csf.colorado.edu cc: Sociology Graduate Students -- International In-Reply-To: <199705121615.MAA32274@sable.cc.vt.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Mon, 12 May 1997, Jeff Janosko wrote: > I think Alan's definition of ethnomethodology is essentially > correct, but too general. Certainly, ethnomethodology is the study of > phenomena from the perspective of the participant. That perspective, > however, is profoundly influenced by one's social location; so, "all that > ethnic stuff" is significant. Sorry, but I must disagree, in that ethnomethodology (EM) is not so much the "study of phenomena from the perspective of the participant," which would be the assumption of such programs as symbolic interactionism, Weberian historical reconstruction, narrative analysis, and as you say below, phenomenology and social constructionism. EM abstains (ie., brackets) individual participant's "meanings." One way to see this is to read thwe work of conversational analysis, in which what an utterance "means" can be seen through its semantic content, its linguistic or para-linguistic form of expression, and perhaps most significantly, its structured location (within a system of turns). Analysts, when doing CA, avoid assigning particular subjectivities on interactants, unless these are somehow made publicly available, as, for instance, in emotion displays. > A discussion of phenomenology may help you to better understand > ethnomethodology. Basically, phenomenology views reality in terms of > subjective experience. In this sense, there are multiple realities; reality > is constituted by one's view of it. Agreed, but the whole point of Garfinkel's famous "breaching experiments" was that not any subjective experience goes. I may suddenly shift my constitutive expectancies of what I am doing while sitting at the dining room table with my family. I may play a game of taking what others say completely literally and responding to them as such. As Garfinkel says, however, I would be breaching the intersubjectively established order. What I would be doing would be weird and, in the first instance, rejected by my audience. Not anything goes. I need to see how the constitutive rules work and how they are used in any given instance. > Ethnomethodology is related to phenomenology. Ethnomethodologists, > however, are particularly interested in the ways that people produce > meaning. In other words, individuals do not create their views of reality > in a vacuum; they utilize systems of meaning that they create through > interaction with others. You should read _The Social Construction of > Reality_ by Berger and Luckmann for a detailed discussion of ethnomethodology. Two comments: Berger & Luckmann (or at least Berger, with whom I've studied some) are more or less hostile to EM, which they see as trivial. Also, while it is true that EM is, in part, dervived from phenomenology, another root is the logical grammer work of Wittgenstein, Ryle, Austin, Malcolm, Winch and others, a program which sees human science as the study of rule governed activity systems. The Manchester school of EM has developed this particular line within EM; one primary example of this within EM is Harvey Sacks' studies of membership categorization, the current works compiled in the recent publication CULTURE IN ACTION. Tom Conroy Boston University From dcoon@ksu.edu Mon May 12 11:46:26 1997 Received: from mailhub.cns.ksu.edu (grunt.ksu.ksu.edu [129.130.12.17]) by csf.Colorado.EDU (8.7.6/8.7.3/CNS-4.0p) with ESMTP id LAA00335 for ; Mon, 12 May 1997 11:46:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from abc (dcoon@abc.ksu.ksu.edu [129.130.12.3]) by mailhub.cns.ksu.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5/mailhub+tar@ksu.edu) with SMTP id MAA15319 for ; Mon, 12 May 1997 12:46:21 -0500 (CDT) Received: by abc (SMI-8.6/1.34) id MAA22948; Mon, 12 May 1997 12:46:21 -0500 Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 12:46:20 -0500 (CDT) From: "Dave Alan Coon (:" X-Sender: dcoon@abc.ksu.ksu.edu To: socgrad@csf.colorado.edu cc: Sociology Graduate Students -- International Subject: Re: Ethnomethodology In-Reply-To: <199705121615.MAA32274@sable.cc.vt.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Is ethnography one form of ethnomethodology? Sincerely, David Coon http://www-personal.ksu.edu/~dcoon MA Student & Graduate Teaching Asst. Dept. of Sociology, Anthropology, & Social Work http://www.ksu.edu/sasw/ Kansas State University From jjanosko@vt.edu Mon May 12 11:54:38 1997 Received: from quackerjack.cc.vt.edu (quackerjack.cc.vt.edu [198.82.160.250]) by csf.Colorado.EDU (8.7.6/8.7.3/CNS-4.0p) with ESMTP id LAA00662 for ; Mon, 12 May 1997 11:54:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sable.cc.vt.edu (sable.cc.vt.edu [128.173.16.30]) by quackerjack.cc.vt.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA28019 for ; Mon, 12 May 1997 13:54:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from Default ([151.199.67.121]) by sable.cc.vt.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id NAA16632 for ; Mon, 12 May 1997 13:54:21 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199705121754.NAA16632@sable.cc.vt.edu> X-Sender: jjanosko@mail.vt.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 13:54:27 +0600 To: socgrad@csf.colorado.edu From: Jeff Janosko Subject: Re: Ethnomethodology Thomas, Thanks for the excellent critique of my comments. I must admit, I'm jealous of your opportunity to study with Peter Berger. Jeff At 12:38 PM 5/12/97 -0400, Thomas Conroy wrote: > >On Mon, 12 May 1997, Jeff Janosko wrote: > >> I think Alan's definition of ethnomethodology is essentially >> correct, but too general. Certainly, ethnomethodology is the study of >> phenomena from the perspective of the participant. That perspective, >> however, is profoundly influenced by one's social location; so, "all that >> ethnic stuff" is significant. > >Sorry, but I must disagree, in that ethnomethodology (EM) is not so much >the "study of phenomena from the perspective of the participant," which >would be the assumption of such programs as symbolic interactionism, >Weberian historical reconstruction, narrative analysis, and as you say >below, phenomenology and social constructionism. EM abstains (ie., brackets) >individual participant's "meanings." One way to see this is to read thwe >work of conversational analysis, in which what an utterance "means" can >be seen through its semantic content, its linguistic or para-linguistic >form of expression, and perhaps most significantly, its structured >location (within a system of turns). Analysts, when doing CA, avoid >assigning particular subjectivities on interactants, unless these are >somehow made publicly available, as, for instance, in emotion displays. > >> A discussion of phenomenology may help you to better understand >> ethnomethodology. Basically, phenomenology views reality in terms of >> subjective experience. In this sense, there are multiple realities; reality >> is constituted by one's view of it. > >Agreed, but the whole point of Garfinkel's famous "breaching experiments" >was that not any subjective experience goes. I may suddenly shift my >constitutive expectancies of what I am doing while sitting at the dining >room table with my family. I may play a game of taking what others say >completely literally and responding to them as such. As Garfinkel says, >however, I would be breaching the intersubjectively established order. >What I would be doing would be weird and, in the first instance, rejected >by my audience. Not anything goes. I need to see how the constitutive >rules work and how they are used in any given instance. > >> Ethnomethodology is related to phenomenology. Ethnomethodologists, >> however, are particularly interested in the ways that people produce >> meaning. In other words, individuals do not create their views of reality >> in a vacuum; they utilize systems of meaning that they create through >> interaction with others. You should read _The Social Construction of >> Reality_ by Berger and Luckmann for a detailed discussion of ethnomethodology. > >Two comments: Berger & Luckmann (or at least Berger, with whom I've >studied some) are more or less hostile to EM, which they see as trivial. >Also, while it is true that EM is, in part, dervived from phenomenology, >another root is the logical grammer work of Wittgenstein, Ryle, Austin, >Malcolm, Winch and others, a program which sees human science as the >study of rule governed activity systems. The Manchester school of EM has >developed this particular line within EM; one primary example of this >within EM is Harvey Sacks' studies of membership categorization, the >current works compiled in the recent publication CULTURE IN ACTION. > >Tom Conroy >Boston University > From DAVIDSON@UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU Mon May 12 12:00:19 1997 Received: from UConnVM.UConn.Edu (uconnvm.uconn.edu [137.99.26.3]) by csf.Colorado.EDU (8.7.6/8.7.3/CNS-4.0p) with SMTP id MAA00989 for ; Mon, 12 May 1997 12:00:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU by UConnVM.UConn.Edu (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with BSMTP id 1174; Mon, 12 May 97 14:00:11 EDT Received: from UConnVM.UConn.Edu (NJE origin DAVIDSON@UCONNVM) by UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU (LMail V1.2c/1.8c) with BSMTP id 9510; Mon, 12 May 1997 14:00:11 -0400 Date: Mon, 12 May 97 13:54:34 EDT From: Alan Subject: Ethnomethodology To: socgrad@CSF.COLORADO.EDU Message-Id: <970512.140011.EDT.DAVIDSON@UConnVM.UConn.Edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT To clarify things a bit, I never intended to state or argue that ethnomethodology studies things from the viewpoint of the participant (definitely not as an atomistic actor -- read Blumer). What Ethnomethodology does do is seek to recognize the embeddedness in what actors do and say within the meaning systems and organizational constraints both existing and defined by actors as existing within particular settings and situations. As for a distinction with Phenomenology, Ethnomethodology is generally more structuralist, very much in a Parsonian way -- but so is PostModernism for that matter. From jjanosko@vt.edu Mon May 12 12:13:01 1997 Received: from quackerjack.cc.vt.edu (quackerjack.cc.vt.edu [198.82.160.250]) by csf.Colorado.EDU (8.7.6/8.7.3/CNS-4.0p) with ESMTP id MAB01408 for ; Mon, 12 May 1997 12:12:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sable.cc.vt.edu (sable.cc.vt.edu [128.173.16.30]) by quackerjack.cc.vt.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA29189 for ; Mon, 12 May 1997 14:12:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from Default ([151.199.67.121]) by sable.cc.vt.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA26667 for ; Mon, 12 May 1997 14:12:48 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199705121812.OAA26667@sable.cc.vt.edu> X-Sender: jjanosko@mail.vt.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 14:13:00 +0600 To: socgrad@csf.colorado.edu From: Jeff Janosko Subject: Re: Ethnomethodology Alan, I doubt that anyone thought that you intended to state that EM is synonymous with the "viewpoint of the participant". I think it was your intention to give a brief definition of EM...something that seems to be more difficult than either of us imagined. Jeff At 01:54 PM 5/12/97 EDT, Alan wrote: >To clarify things a bit, I never intended to state or argue that >ethnomethodology studies things from the viewpoint of the participant >(definitely not as an atomistic actor -- read Blumer). What Ethnomethodology >does do is seek to recognize the embeddedness in what actors do and say within >the meaning systems and organizational constraints both existing and defined >by actors as existing within particular settings and situations. As for >a distinction with Phenomenology, Ethnomethodology is generally more >structuralist, very much in a Parsonian way -- but so is PostModernism >for that matter. > From jcalabro@osf1.gmu.edu Mon May 12 22:22:15 1997 Received: from osf1.gmu.edu (osf1.gmu.edu [129.174.1.13]) by csf.Colorado.EDU (8.7.6/8.7.3/CNS-4.0p) with SMTP id WAA25349 for ; Mon, 12 May 1997 22:22:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from osf1.gmu.edu by osf1.gmu.edu (5.65v4.0/1.1.8.2/07Sep94-1001AM/GMUv3) id AA11516; Tue, 13 May 1997 00:22:06 -0400 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970513012248.0069f118@osf1.gmu.edu> X-Sender: jcalabro@osf1.gmu.edu Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 01:22:48 -0400 To: socgrad@csf.colorado.edu From: "Jeanne A.B. Calabro" Subject: Re: Virtual Identities and Communities ...refs ??? Cc: Ocean In-Reply-To: <3373FE7F.1FA5@csc.canterbury.ac.nz> References: <199705092008.OAA23671@csf.Colorado.EDU> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" This may not help at all, but it may. I did some research, not on virtual communities, but making use of a virtual community, a listserv used by parents of children with Down Syndrome as well as professionals, physicians, therapists, journalists, teachers, who served these children, many of whom also were parents of children with Downs Syndrome. My project was on the use of cosmetic surgery in these children, a quite controversial practice with uncertain therapeutic benefits that has been little researched, although it is very popular and common in Germany and Israel especially, both countries with authoritarian medical systems, and less common, although still done, in Australia, Canada and the United States. Anyway, since the group of parents who have had their children undergo this surgery is not large and is widely dispersed, and because it is hard to get a parent to admit that they had this surgery done on their child because of the frequent criticism (it's almost as bad as admitting that you committed infanticide in many circles in this country), it is hard to get any but a very anecdotal and idiosyncratic study going on this. However, through the internet, where people feel anonymity and can construct identities, I ironically found a great degree of honesty in the many responses I received. Thus much information that cannot be accessed by traditional methods or means, can often be accessed via the internet. There are of course several limitations and considerations that must be made which do not exist with face-to-face interviews, but there are ways to confirm and validate information, and also ways to compare if perhaps two or three cases are available to be interviewed face-to-face. The honesty and helpfulness I encountered was amazing. I had to be very careful not to disclose my research purpose, hypothesis, or personal position or opinions. I just asked for people to give me the facts and the story in a directed series of questions. Perhaps it is easier to actually imagine and construct a community in virual reality that one really longs for in reality. Perhaps the sense of vulnerability, competition and anxiety are less in virtual reality. I do not know, but I do know that it is a great way for people to find a voice when they are afraid of speaking in other contexts, and so a lot of people overcome the silence that is either self-imposed or imposed because of some marginal status. A lot of people worry about the current self-selection of membership in these communities, because there is a threshold of skills and education and economics in order to have the means to access the internet. After my research, however, I am really excited about the potential for the internet to overcome many of the inequalities experienced by marginal populations in terms of having voice, cultural authority, and access, that is, once computers are more readily available to all. In my study, I had one respondent who was a single mother who did exotic dancing at night to support her son with Down Syndrome. I got people of all ages and backgrounds from physicians to elderly couples to members of a marginal religious group. It is also true that people with severe disabilities who are often unable, because of chronic illness or lack of an accessible environment, to access many community settings, activities and forums, can access virtual communities quite well. There are talking computers, visible signals for the deaf, dictation programs for those who cannot use the keyboard as well as special adaptive keyboards and other sophisticated input devices. Mobility impairments are seamlessly accommodated by virtual communities. I had a mentor in my previous program, Thomasina Borkman, who was the President of the International Organization on Research on Self-Help Groups. There is not much research at all on self-help groups on the internet, although the number of just AIDS self-help groups on the internet is staggering by itself, not even including other kinds of services accessed on the internet specifically designed to serve populations with AIDS. I would suggest that marninal groups are more likely to form virtual communities, and also people with impaired immunity, chronic illness, or limiting disabilities are also more likely to form virtual communities. The internet may also provide a unique and advantageous medium for accessing these populations, although it poses some risks to confidentiality because of security concerns. Anyway, I just thought I would tell you my experience with this virtual medium, and maybe you would have a light bulb go off at some point concerning an area of interest. If you have any questions, please e-mail me. Jeanne Calabro _____________________________________________________________________________ Jeanne A.B. Calabro Home Phone: 703/450-5460 104 Norwood Place E-mail: jcalabro@osf1.gmu.edu Sterling, Virginia 20164-8503 Affiliation: Brandeis University ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Sociology changes the world." Personal opinion _____________________________________________________________________________ From ziggy@princeton.edu Tue May 13 00:38:57 1997 Received: from outbound.Princeton.EDU (outbound.Princeton.EDU [128.112.128.84]) by csf.Colorado.EDU (8.7.6/8.7.3/CNS-4.0p) with ESMTP id AAA29839 for ; Tue, 13 May 1997 00:38:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ponyexpress.Princeton.EDU ([128.112.129.131]) by outbound.Princeton.EDU with ESMTP id <541385-1243>; Tue, 13 May 1997 02:38:45 -0400 Received: from tucson.Princeton.EDU (tucson.Princeton.EDU [128.112.131.153]) by ponyexpress.Princeton.EDU (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id CAA08524 for ; Tue, 13 May 1997 02:38:37 -0400 Received: from localhost (ziggy@localhost) by tucson.Princeton.EDU (SMI-8.6/8.6.12) with SMTP id CAA22004 for ; Tue, 13 May 1997 02:38:37 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: tucson.princeton.edu: ziggy owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 02:38:36 -0400 (EDT) From: Ziggy Rivkin-Fish To: Sociology Graduate Students -- International Subject: Re: Ethnomethodology In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Mon, 12 May 1997, Dave Alan Coon (: wrote: > Is ethnography one form of ethnomethodology? It could be, but usually is not. The "ethno-" part certainly refers to studying people in 'natural action' situations, but ethnomethodology has room for an experimental approach (via breeching actions taht serve to bring out taken-for-granted assumptions of action by intentinally acting agaist expectations and thereby shaking your informants taken-for-granted notion of reality) that is usually a no-no in the deep-immersion anthropological ethnography, or the interview-based sociological variant. The suffix "-methodology" is quite important because it refers to examining the methodologies that interactants use to create, infer, and act in social situations (very much like the social scientist, hence also a reflexive emphasis on the scientist's own ethnomethodologies). The interactive assumptions of doings in social situations seems to me to be a different level of analysis than anthropologists' emphasis on larger (extra-situational) strategies and culture or sociologists' emphases on aggregate (and thus individual) beliefs and values (I know I am painting very broad brushes about anthro and soc here). Ziggy Rivkin-Fish Sociology, Princeton From TR.Young@uvm.edu Tue May 13 05:05:17 1997 Received: from smtpgate.uvm.edu (smtpgate.uvm.edu [132.198.101.121]) by csf.Colorado.EDU (8.7.6/8.7.3/CNS-4.0p) with SMTP id FAA06546 for ; Tue, 13 May 1997 05:05:15 -0600 (MDT) Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 05:05:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 8N9J6 (208.18.225.15) by smtpgate.uvm.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1a) with SMTP id <0.00FC6960@smtpgate.uvm.edu>; Tue, 13 May 1997 7:05:13 -0400 Message-Id: <1.5.4.16.19970513070456.37573936@pop.uvm.edu> X-Sender: tryoung@pop.uvm.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: socgrad@csf.colorado.edu From: TR Young Subject: jobs* (fwd) >fyi, TR >---------- Forwarded message ---------- >Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 11:24:07 -0700 >From: Adrienne Carey Hurley >Reply-To: ethnicstudies@uci.edu >To: Multiple recipients of list >Subject: jobs* (fwd) > >JOBS at Chicago, >pass it on > > > >Dear Friends, >Please help disseminate this message as widely as possible, in Korea as >well as here and in other communities of English-speaking Korean scholars. > >Thank you for your help. >Norma Field > > The University of Chicago seeks to fill two or three tenure-track >positions with scholars with expertise in Korea. Applications are invited >from those working in social science and humanities disciplines as well as >newer programs such as film studies, cultural studies, gay and >lesbian studies or gender studies. Innovative scholarship and willingness >to assume collaborative leadership in developing Korean studies at the >University are crucial criteria. Interest in Asian American studies is >most welcome. The successful applicant will be housed in a department in >the humanities and social sciences division. Preference will be given to >applicants with PhD in hand. Send letter stating research and teaching >interests, c.v., writing sample, and three letters of recommendation to >Norma Field, Chair, Interdivisional Search Committee in Korean Studies, >University of Chicago, Center for East Asian Studies, 5828 South University >Avenue, Chicago, Illinois 60637 by September 15. The University of Chicago >is an equal opportunity employer and encourages applications from women and >minorities. > > > > TR Young Sociology U/Vermont TR.Young@uvm.edu From TR.Young@uvm.edu Tue May 13 05:33:22 1997 Received: from smtpgate.uvm.edu (smtpgate.uvm.edu [132.198.101.121]) by csf.Colorado.EDU (8.7.6/8.7.3/CNS-4.0p) with SMTP id FAA07330 for ; Tue, 13 May 1997 05:33:21 -0600 (MDT) Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 05:33:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 8N9J6 (208.18.225.15) by smtpgate.uvm.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1a) with SMTP id <0.ED65C690@smtpgate.uvm.edu>; Tue, 13 May 1997 7:33:18 -0400 Message-Id: <1.5.4.16.19970513073301.3757a720@pop.uvm.edu> X-Sender: tryoung@pop.uvm.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: socgrad@csf.colorado.edu From: TR Young Subject: Re: Ethnomethodology Good job, Z R-F: best succinct presentation of ethnomethodology I seen so far... ....and now for a Harold Garfinkel story. Once upon a time, I had a very bright student. His name was Bill B. Bill took a course with me in SocPsych and, in passing, learned a bit about EM and breeching techniques as an intellectual tool with which to make visible the sociology of it all which lurks behind so much human behavior. Bill finished college, drifted around a while, came back for the Ph.D program at a land grant university in colorado which we can call, CSU. Bill hung around a while then dropped out to play his guitar some more; and to learn about life in less sheltered venues. But Bill came back and finished his doctorate...much to my great pleasure. I had worked with his uncle, Charlie Brown, a Catholic Priest, in the 60's on a variety of interesting things so had taken both an avuncular as well as mentoring interest in Bill. His doctorate was in social psychology...and focussed upon the folk methods by which social realities are created...and the meaning of the process for postmodern sociology. One day, Bill mentioned that he had sent a letter to Harold Garfinkel along with a few questions and a few ideas upon which he, Bill, would like colleagial comment. I nodded and asked to see what reply HG made. A week or so later, Bill brought in a letter from HG. It was simple and succinct. 'Fuck off,' HG had written. My heart sank; my sympathies rose on behalf of Bill. What a terrible thing to do to a budding ethnomethodologist. After my initial anger wore off, I began to wonder why Harold G. would do such a thing. Was it in the form of a breeching experiment...if so, what normative structure did G. wish to expose and how would he know the experiment paid off. Maybe he expected Bill to say/do something. Maybe he expected Bill's Committee to do something. Maybe he expected ASA to censure him for his gross ill temper. Then, it came to me. It was not a breeching experiment at all. Harold Garfinkel was simply being himself....a first class ass-hole. The years went by. Whenever I heard from Bill or whenever the name Garfinkel came up, I reflected upon that nasty little note. I knew that, one day, our paths would cross. That Garfinkel would be in the same room as some meeting or another and that I would have a chance to ask him, insincerely, about the point of that 'breeching experiment'...and in public forum, embarrass the hell out of HG. 15 years or more later, my chance came. 'Twas in Detroit...or maybe S.F.; Garfinkel was featured speaker in a session. I drifted down to the room about the time he was scheduled to speak...went early so I could get a good seat...visible to one and all...then I would stand and ask as many nasty questions about the episode in as friendly and innocence manner as could I muster. The room began to fill. Eager young grad students came first. Then older, more established academics filed in to worship before the master. I glowed with eager anticipation of suitable end to the breeching experiment...I would ask him, in all good will, what purpose had he in such message...what consequence did he expect ....what justification might one have to risk destruction of a grad student...as though I were merely curious. Garfinkel came in. I was appalled. He was a shrunken, doddering husk of a man. I could not bring myself to rip and rend as such a helpless critter. Before he began to speak, I got up, left the room and walked away. I smiled to myself and thought of Bill B. I wondered if Bill would approve my decision to leave G. to die in peace. Wondered if he could have made the meeting memorable; made the lost exchange interesting in either scholarly or polemic terms. I shrugged. Such a critter was not worth either mercy or cruelty. End of Story ....or is it. TRYoung At 02:38 AM 5/13/97 -0400, you wrote: >On Mon, 12 May 1997, Dave Alan Coon (: wrote: > >> Is ethnography one form of ethnomethodology? > >It could be, but usually is not. The "ethno-" part certainly refers to >studying people in 'natural action' situations, but ethnomethodology has >room for an experimental approach (via breeching actions taht serve to >bring out taken-for-granted assumptions of action by intentinally >acting agaist expectations and thereby shaking your informants >taken-for-granted notion of reality) that is usually a no-no in >the deep-immersion anthropological ethnography, or the interview-based >sociological variant. The suffix "-methodology" is quite important because >it refers to examining the methodologies that interactants use to create, >infer, and act in social situations (very much like the social scientist, >hence also a reflexive emphasis on the scientist's own >ethnomethodologies). The interactive assumptions of doings in social >situations seems to me to be a different level of analysis than >anthropologists' emphasis on larger (extra-situational) strategies and >culture or sociologists' emphases on aggregate (and thus >individual) beliefs and values (I know I am painting very broad brushes >about anthro and soc here). > >Ziggy Rivkin-Fish >Sociology, Princeton > > > TR Young Sociology U/Vermont TR.Young@uvm.edu From TR.Young@uvm.edu Tue May 13 07:44:02 1997 Received: from smtpgate.uvm.edu (smtpgate.uvm.edu [132.198.101.121]) by csf.Colorado.EDU (8.7.6/8.7.3/CNS-4.0p) with SMTP id HAA12624 for ; Tue, 13 May 1997 07:44:01 -0600 (MDT) Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 07:44:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 8N9J6 (208.18.225.29) by smtpgate.uvm.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1a) with SMTP id <0.2A958340@smtpgate.uvm.edu>; Tue, 13 May 1997 9:43:52 -0400 Message-Id: <1.5.4.16.19970513094335.11e7405a@pop.uvm.edu> X-Sender: tryoung@pop.uvm.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: socgrad@csf.colorado.edu From: TR Young Subject: New Address for Red Feather Those of you who would like to visit prior mini-lectures will find a link on the Red Feather Home Page at its new address: http//www.tryoung.com Also find other directories/files which might be of interest especially the stuff on non-linear social dynamics in the Chaos Directory. Cheers, TR TR Young Sociology U/Vermont TR.Young@uvm.edu From DMC96005@UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU Tue May 13 09:11:15 1997 Received: from UConnVM.UConn.Edu (uconnvm.uconn.edu [137.99.26.3]) by csf.Colorado.EDU (8.7.6/8.7.3/CNS-4.0p) with SMTP id JAA15678 for ; Tue, 13 May 1997 09:11:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU by UConnVM.UConn.Edu (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with BSMTP id 0699; Tue, 13 May 97 11:11:10 EDT Received: from UConnVM.UConn.Edu (NJE origin DMC96005@UCONNVM) by UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU (LMail V1.2c/1.8c) with BSMTP id 6998; Tue, 13 May 1997 11:11:10 -0400 Date: Tue, 13 May 97 11:09:36 EDT From: danielle Subject: Re: Virtual Identities and Communities ...refs ??? To: jeanne In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19970513012248.0069f118@osf1.gmu.edu> Message-Id: <970513.111109.EDT.DMC96005@UConnVM.UConn.Edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Jeanne -- wow, I just got asked to do some summer research on 2 web sites/chat lines devoted to those with moebius syndrome (and those in their lives). The woman I will be working with (most likely, if funding comes through) is Gaye Tuchman. She might be someone for you to contact. I hope you don't mind, but I forwarded parts of your message to her. -danielle at uconn From M.AMOAH@lse.ac.uk Tue May 13 09:19:57 1997 Received: from res.lse.ac.uk (res.lse.ac.uk [158.143.96.63]) by csf.Colorado.EDU (8.7.6/8.7.3/CNS-4.0p) with ESMTP id JAA15941 for ; Tue, 13 May 1997 09:19:55 -0600 (MDT) From: M.AMOAH@lse.ac.uk Received: from smtplink.lse.ac.uk by res.lse.ac.uk with SMTP (PP); Tue, 13 May 1997 16:18:14 +0100 Received: from ccMail by smtplink.lse.ac.uk (SMTPLINK V2.11.01) id AA863562304; Tue, 13 May 97 16:09:22 GMT Date: Tue, 13 May 97 16:09:22 GMT Message-Id: <9704138635.AA863562304@smtplink.lse.ac.uk> To: socgrad@csf.colorado.edu Subject: Re: Ethnomethodology Is ethnomethodology postmodernist? >To clarify things a bit, I never intended to state or argue that >ethnomethodology studies things from the viewpoint of the participant >(definitely not as an atomistic actor -- read Blumer). What >Ethnomethodology does do is seek to recognize the embeddedness in what >actors do and say within the meaning systems and organizational >constraints both existing and defined by actors as existing within >particular settings and situations. As for a distinction with >Phenomenology, Ethnomethodology is generally more structuralist, very >much in a Parsonian way -- but so is PostModernism for that matter. From DAVIDSON@UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU Tue May 13 09:23:07 1997 Received: from UConnVM.UConn.Edu (uconnvm.uconn.edu [137.99.26.3]) by csf.Colorado.EDU (8.7.6/8.7.3/CNS-4.0p) with SMTP id JAA16087 for ; Tue, 13 May 1997 09:23:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU by UConnVM.UConn.Edu (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with BSMTP id 0735; Tue, 13 May 97 11:23:05 EDT Received: from UConnVM.UConn.Edu (NJE origin DAVIDSON@UCONNVM) by UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU (LMail V1.2c/1.8c) with BSMTP id 8017; Tue, 13 May 1997 11:23:05 -0400 Date: Tue, 13 May 97 11:21:39 EDT From: Alan Subject: Ethnomethodology To: socgrad@CSF.COLORADO.EDU Message-Id: <970513.112304.EDT.DAVIDSON@UConnVM.UConn.Edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Ethnomethodology is definitely NOT postmodernist in terms of denying the possibilities of formalized theory and truths, it is definitely a precursor to postmodernist approaches in its treatment of discourse as social-factual. From ziggy@princeton.edu Tue May 13 09:55:02 1997 Received: from outbound.Princeton.EDU (outbound.Princeton.EDU [128.112.128.84]) by csf.Colorado.EDU (8.7.6/8.7.3/CNS-4.0p) with ESMTP id JAA17000 for ; Tue, 13 May 1997 09:55:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ponyexpress.Princeton.EDU ([128.112.129.131]) by outbound.Princeton.EDU with ESMTP id <541591-1238>; Tue, 13 May 1997 11:54:58 -0400 Received: from tucson.Princeton.EDU (tucson.Princeton.EDU [128.112.131.153]) by ponyexpress.Princeton.EDU (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id LAA06990 for ; Tue, 13 May 1997 11:54:51 -0400 Received: from localhost (ziggy@localhost) by tucson.Princeton.EDU (SMI-8.6/8.6.12) with SMTP id LAA27428 for ; Tue, 13 May 1997 11:54:49 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: tucson.princeton.edu: ziggy owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 11:54:48 -0400 (EDT) From: Ziggy Rivkin-Fish Reply-To: Ziggy Rivkin-Fish To: Sociology Graduate Students -- International Subject: Re: Ethnomethodology In-Reply-To: <9704138635.AA863562304@smtplink.lse.ac.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Tue, 13 May 1997 M.AMOAH@lse.ac.uk wrote: > Is ethnomethodology postmodernist? > > >As for a distinction with > >Phenomenology, Ethnomethodology is generally more structuralist, very > >much in a Parsonian way -- but so is PostModernism for that matter. Parsonian structural-functionalism is structural like postmodernism!??? Garfinkel wrote his book in explicit challenge to Parsons (see Heritage's excellent exposition of Garfinkel). Garfinkel sought to solve the problem that Parsons had sought out to tackle before (Hobbes' problem of how social order is possible), but Garfinkel sought to show that order is contructed and is endemic to micro-level interactions and therfore does not need to be integrated on a macro-functional level via a mystical form of integration. Garfinkel also rejected Parsons notion of norm and showed how interactive regularities and order derives from expectations that can be amended, challenged, rejected, appropriated, used etc. If there is a structuralism in Garfinkel I fail to see it. Indeed, the disparate elements and rules taht make up the Garfinkelean universe seems much less structuralist than Berger and Luckmann's monumental treatise which is integrated. On Tue, 13 May 1997, Alan wrote: > Ethnomethodology is definitely NOT postmodernist in terms of denying > the possibilities of formalized theory and truths, it is definitely > a precursor to postmodernist approaches in its treatment of discourse > as social-factual. I aggree with the first part of the statement, but which forms of sociology do not treat discourse as social-factual (incuding Parsonian, Weberian, Marxian, Durkheimian, Simmelian...)? Treating ethnomethodology as pre-postmodern is reaching a little, but some similarities include 1) The narrative construction of the subject (Garfinkel's study of Agnes, post-hoc accounts of reality etc.) 2) Destabilized social reality (not made out of fixed norms, but challengable, fragile expectations that can break down) 3) Emphasis on the situation (as opposed to macro-structural approaches, which tend to see the situation as a derivative of macro-structures) 4) Rejection of grand narratives for social explanations 5) Rejection of positivist causal framework for social science 6) Reflexivity of method (that the social scientist is not external to the sitation that s/he studies, but is deeply embedded in it, and thus there is a potential need to examine the scientist as part of the explanation/situation, ot explicate the criteria by which the scientist makes his/her judgements) Postmodernism has many different incarnations and versions, but it tends to focus more on power (in a Foucaultian sense rather than Weberian one) than ethnomethodology originally did. But most later users of ethnoemthodology have seen it as a useful tool to explicate larger power formations from the micro level or the micro-techniques of power that Foucault examined (Giddens, Bourdieu, Cicourel, Collins, West etc.) An early brilliant use of ethnomethodology was done by Candace West and Don Zimmerman to show how interactants 'do gender'. Ziggy =++++++++++++++++++++++= ^ Ziggy Rivkin-Fish ^ ^ Dept of Sociology ^ ^ 2-N-1 Green Hall ^ ^ Princeton University ^ ^ Princeton, NJ 08544 ^ =++++++++++++++++++++++= From DAVIDSON@UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU Tue May 13 10:06:31 1997 Received: from UConnVM.UConn.Edu (uconnvm.uconn.edu [137.99.26.3]) by csf.Colorado.EDU (8.7.6/8.7.3/CNS-4.0p) with SMTP id KAA17285 for ; Tue, 13 May 1997 10:06:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU by UConnVM.UConn.Edu (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with BSMTP id 0876; Tue, 13 May 97 12:06:27 EDT Received: from UConnVM.UConn.Edu (NJE origin DAVIDSON@UCONNVM) by UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU (LMail V1.2c/1.8c) with BSMTP id 1726; Tue, 13 May 1997 12:06:27 -0400 Date: Tue, 13 May 97 12:03:39 EDT From: Alan Subject: Ethnomethodology To: socgrad@CSF.COLORADO.EDU Message-Id: <970513.120627.EDT.DAVIDSON@UConnVM.UConn.Edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Garfinkel wrote as a critique of Parsons only as a critique of the 1951 and later Parsons -- social systems and integration without actors, etc. One should remember though that Garfinkel was a student of Parsons, and the notion of cultures as integrated systems (regardless of how constructed) is a very important element of both Garfinkel's Ethnomethodology and later versions in the form of Conversation Analysis. From ziggy@princeton.edu Tue May 13 12:45:21 1997 Received: from outbound.Princeton.EDU (outbound.Princeton.EDU [128.112.128.84]) by csf.Colorado.EDU (8.7.6/8.7.3/CNS-4.0p) with ESMTP id MAA23991 for ; Tue, 13 May 1997 12:45:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ponyexpress.Princeton.EDU ([128.112.129.131]) by outbound.Princeton.EDU with ESMTP id <541746-1238>; Tue, 13 May 1997 14:44:59 -0400 Received: from oscar.Princeton.EDU (oscar.Princeton.EDU [128.112.129.179]) by ponyexpress.Princeton.EDU (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id OAA11252 for ; Tue, 13 May 1997 14:44:15 -0400 Received: from localhost (ziggy@localhost) by oscar.Princeton.EDU (950413.SGI.8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id OAA16992 for ; Tue, 13 May 1997 14:44:02 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: oscar.Princeton.EDU: ziggy owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 14:44:02 -0400 (EDT) From: Ziggy Rivkin-Fish Reply-To: Ziggy Rivkin-Fish To: Sociology Graduate Students -- International Subject: Re: Ethnomethodology In-Reply-To: <970513.120627.EDT.DAVIDSON@UConnVM.UConn.Edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Tue, 13 May 1997, Alan wrote: > Garfinkel wrote as a critique of Parsons only as a critique of the 1951 > and later Parsons -- social systems and integration without actors, etc. > One should remember though that Garfinkel was a student of Parsons, and > the notion of cultures as integrated systems (regardless of how constructed) > is a very important element of both Garfinkel's Ethnomethodology and later > versions in the form of Conversation Analysis. I cannot really aggree with this. Conversation Analysis (Sacks, Schlegloff etc.) does not employ a notion of culture as far as I recall, and most certainly not a unitary and integrated one. Garfinkel did not himself do CA, only his students. His later work shifted to studies of practical science and work. And the only time (as far as I recall) that he ever mentioned the notion of culture in *Studies in Ethnomethodology* was in reference to the term "cultural dope": a critique of the Parsonian model of culture as goal oriented values that people are socially programmed to follow (actually some of Parsons latest stuff is far more interesting and less deterministic in this respect). Garfinkel argued that people are perfectly capable of making judgements even as they are guided by taken-for-granted notions. Considering the chapter in which this term emerges, it is quite clear that Garfinkel did NOT believe in an integrated, unitary notion of culture. In micro-sociology, symbolic interactionists, I believe, have been much better at getting at the cultural level because their starting point is a symbolic meaning system that is not reducible to the situation. Giddens' and Bourdieu's uses of ethnomethodology are also creative attempts to develop a notion of culture that incorporates the brilliant insights of Garfinkel (after all, his approach is practice-based before practice-based theories became in vogue as a result of the post-structuralist rebellion against Levi-Strauss and his followers on the culture-structure side, and Parsons (and other macro theorists) on the social-structure side). Ziggy =++++++++++++++++++++++= ^ Ziggy Rivkin-Fish ^ ^ Dept of Sociology ^ ^ 2-N-1 Green Hall ^ ^ Princeton University ^ ^ Princeton, NJ 08544 ^ =++++++++++++++++++++++= From qiuzq@pku.edu.cn Tue May 13 13:40:11 1997 Received: from sunrise.pku.edu.cn (sunrise.pku.edu.cn [202.112.7.11]) by csf.Colorado.EDU (8.7.6/8.7.3/CNS-4.0p) with ESMTP id NAA26231 for ; Tue, 13 May 1997 13:40:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from qiuzq ([202.112.8.129]) by sunrise.pku.edu.cn (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id DAA25055 for ; Wed, 14 May 1997 03:40:20 -0800 (GMT) Received: by qiuzq with Microsoft Mail id <01BC601B.E235EE60@qiuzq>; Wed, 14 May 1997 04:04:13 +-800 Message-ID: <01BC601B.E235EE60@qiuzq> From: Qiu Zeqi To: "'socgrad@csf.colorado.edu'" Subject: RE: Ethnomethodology Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 04:02:31 +-800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BC601B.E23F1620" ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC601B.E23F1620 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Can anyone help me to leave this list? ---------- From: Alan Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 1997 12:03 AM To: Sociology Graduate Students -- International Subject: Ethnomethodology Garfinkel wrote as a critique of Parsons only as a critique of the 1951 and later Parsons -- social systems and integration without actors, etc. One should remember though that Garfinkel was a student of Parsons, and the notion of cultures as integrated systems (regardless of how constructed) is a very important element of both Garfinkel's Ethnomethodology and later versions in the form of Conversation Analysis. ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC601B.E23F1620 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+Ig0UAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAAqAMAAAAAAACrAAENgAQAAgAAAAIAAgABBJAG ADQBAAABAAAADAAAAAMAADADAAAACwAPDgAAAAACAf8PAQAAAE8AAAAAAAAAgSsfpL6jEBmdbgDd AQ9UAgAAAABzb2NncmFkQGNzZi5jb2xvcmFkby5lZHUAU01UUABzb2NncmFkQGNzZi5jb2xvcmFk by5lZHUAAB4AAjABAAAABQAAAFNNVFAAAAAAHgADMAEAAAAZAAAAc29jZ3JhZEBjc2YuY29sb3Jh ZG8uZWR1AAAAAAMAFQwBAAAAAwD+DwYAAAAeAAEwAQAAABsAAAAnc29jZ3JhZEBjc2YuY29sb3Jh ZG8uZWR1JwAAAgELMAEAAAAeAAAAU01UUDpTT0NHUkFEQENTRi5DT0xPUkFETy5FRFUAAAADAAA5 AAAAAAsAQDoBAAAAAgH2DwEAAAAEAAAAAAAAA9k7AQiABwAYAAAASVBNLk1pY3Jvc29mdCBNYWls Lk5vdGUAMQgBBIABABUAAABSRTogRXRobm9tZXRob2RvbG9neQCaBwEFgAMADgAAAM0HBQAOAAQA AgAfAAMADwEBIIADAA4AAADNBwUADgAEAAIADAADAPwAAQmAAQAhAAAAQzExRTREMDkwQkNDRDAx MThEMUY0NDQ1NTM1NDAwMDAA7gYBA5AGACgFAAASAAAACwAjAAAAAAADACYAAAAAAAsAKQAAAAAA AwA2AAAAAABAADkA4HBxl9hfvAEeAHAAAQAAABUAAABSRTogRXRobm9tZXRob2RvbG9neQAAAAAC AXEAAQAAABYAAAABvF/Yl2kJTR7CzAsR0I0fREVTVAAAAAAeAB4MAQAAAAUAAABTTVRQAAAAAB4A HwwBAAAAEQAAAHFpdXpxQHBrdS5lZHUuY24AAAAAAwAGEDVlYdwDAAcQ8AEAAB4ACBABAAAAZQAA AENBTkFOWU9ORUhFTFBNRVRPTEVBVkVUSElTTElTVD8tLS0tLS0tLS0tRlJPTTpBTEFOU0VOVDpX RURORVNEQVksTUFZMTQsMTk5NzEyOjAzQU1UTzpTT0NJT0xPR1lHUkFEVUEAAAAAAgEJEAEAAACw AwAArAMAAOoGAABMWkZ1moThsf8ACgEPAhUCqAXrAoMAUALyCQIAY2gKwHNldDI3BgAGwwKDMgPF AgBwckJxEeJzdGVtAoMzRxEFE1IRVzEzNAMwJzZjDDAV8GUV4QDgJ2W6NQKDNBEMFa8Ws30KgMsI zwnZOxpfMjUW0QqBkw2xC2BuZwHQNTIAABcLgAIQAABoBbB6ZG8UYyACkSoRVSAhKQgsLjoYYDNi P1z0fV0YYGEAUCBgErAgZK8UUCBkFzAgZDUgVTYgVao3IFU4IFU5IFVhIFW/FhEgcxaRIHMLMCBk ZiBU7mIggicCIUViIkUBsCbVVSRFYiVFYiZFYibFY/8hQiFGIUIgwiFCI0IhQiRC3yFCJcIhQhZR ITJiJMIugu8lQi6CJsIhQWQmQiFBCmDFHsNsHyQoW1wAACBkXy5CJwIN8CbkIMViIcVivSLFYiPF LrMnAiXFYi5F9yOzMAIvRWYvRTI2IbAZclMK+xcxczEjwGMAQCAWQwORAHB5AiBlIGgQZWxwIAeA IHRvoCBsZWF2O6FoBADzO+AEAHQ/CoUKizygOiCCMALRaS0xNDQN8K8M0D7TOXwTUG8T0GMFQL4t QPcKhzmLDDBAdkYDYc8fwD+fQKMMgiBBHUFBn7dCrQZgAjA6Rk5E21cJgME7EHNkYXksBdBKcIYg PtBKkDE5OTdK4NAyOjAzRZBNRe9CraxUb0gvRNtTHpBpGeGSZ0rQR3ImMHVhE9B5BgB0dQ2wAjAE IEDwIL5JAjAEkVDwUDBSQGxMD3FG/nViakCxTi9E20X9PFBuA3ARwB5AHoBQUjz/2T4DMzY/f0CF RwrAPqDkbms7UCB3QII6wAQgLGEgBQFSYHEKUCBveGYgUBGRAiAEIAIgbJ9K0FwfPFA7IEswNTEK hf0AcGQ74FDxBcBdJlHBXVD/UCAHQGEwE7NcIWABC4AT0N8JwFJTW6BcgB5AdQVAANBPO8ARoEqQ EcBjLgqFT/U7EXNjYWxgEBpgB4AG0PNgYWNSZ2g8QVDwWwpd8/8TwFFTXOlKkF/xCoVfAldA+2Lj XPFjZVBRQBpgXCEEINdidgmAYacoGmBnCxE78D8EEVzxHkAH4AWgAIB0cvZ1QMAJgCkKhTxxXEA8 IPZyStAHcHAaAQBwBUA7UN9loWg0BuA8UFsIJwQgVx7/X+gKhW9BAJBdYguAXvMCEGxybVziCFBu dAJi1EF/UpETsAQAZGZYH1ktHUIxX0uwFFFADQqFGYEAe5ADABAQAAAAAAMAERABAAAAQAAHMCD6 0YvYX7wBQAAIMCD60YvYX7wBHgA9AAEAAAAFAAAAUkU6IAAAAAAngQ== ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC601B.E23F1620-- From DAVIDSON@UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU Tue May 13 15:12:54 1997 Received: from UConnVM.UConn.Edu (uconnvm.uconn.edu [137.99.26.3]) by csf.Colorado.EDU (8.7.6/8.7.3/CNS-4.0p) with SMTP id PAA01710 for ; Tue, 13 May 1997 15:12:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU by UConnVM.UConn.Edu (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with BSMTP id 1790; Tue, 13 May 97 17:12:52 EDT Received: from UConnVM.UConn.Edu (NJE origin DAVIDSON@UCONNVM) by UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU (LMail V1.2c/1.8c) with BSMTP id 5395; Tue, 13 May 1997 17:12:52 -0400 Date: Tue, 13 May 97 17:03:22 EDT From: Alan Subject: Ethnomethodology To: socgrad@CSF.COLORADO.EDU Message-Id: <970513.171252.EDT.DAVIDSON@UConnVM.UConn.Edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT It is not an issue of concepts used as much as an issue of underlying assumptions. Sure, according to Garfinkel the focus should be on practice and on how "social forces" such as social structure and culture are implicated through practice -- however, according to Garfinkel and especially according to the European borrowers of Ethnomethodolgy, this does not deny that social action is socially patterned according to the situation. If anything, symbolic interactionists only began using culture and meaning systems and the like after the "astructural" critiques coming from both structural sociologists and from more structural qualitative theorists such as Goffman. If one wants free actors, look at Blumer and some American Rational Choice theory, don't look at Garfinkel. To a certain extent, Garfinkel's point was a trivial one -- the necessities of particular situation (as perceived by actors) often leads to practice departing from mandated scripts -- but this doesn't make the mandated scripts irrelevant or completely negotiable (as some Symbolic Interactionists would have it). As for a Poststructural rebellion against Levi-Strauss, there was a critique of Levi-Strauss within French Social science, but Foucault, Baudrillard, Lyotard and company are every bit as deterministic as Levi-Strauss and Durkheim and his students were -- the vehicle (discourse) is different, but Foucault's social actors are no freer (even in Giddens' sense of agency) than are Parson's actors. From tombrown@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu Tue May 13 16:08:49 1997 Received: from jhuml2.hcf.jhu.edu (jhuml2.hcf.jhu.edu [128.220.2.87]) by csf.Colorado.EDU (8.7.6/8.7.3/CNS-4.0p) with ESMTP id QAA04310 for ; Tue, 13 May 1997 16:08:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu by jhmail.hcf.jhu.edu (PMDF V5.0-7 #13870) id <01IITW8PZYXC94DOOJ@jhmail.hcf.jhu.edu> for socgrad@csf.colorado.edu; Tue, 13 May 1997 18:08:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu by jhmail.hcf.jhu.edu (PMDF V5.0-7 #13870) id <01IITW8QL77U934PI8@jhmail.hcf.jhu.edu> for socgrad@csf.colorado.edu; Tue, 13 May 1997 18:07:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu by jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu id <265-5>; Tue, 13 May 1997 18:07:28 -0400 Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 18:07:24 -0400 From: Thomas F Brown Subject: Re: Ethnomethodology To: socgrad@csf.colorado.edu Message-id: <97May13.180728edt.265-5@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu> Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Of what use is ethnomethodology? How can it help me understand the world? How can it help me change the world? It strikes me so far as trivial in these respects, although perhaps more information would change my view. From conroyt@bu.edu Tue May 13 17:00:03 1997 Received: from acs4.bu.edu (ACS4.BU.EDU [128.197.154.40]) by csf.Colorado.EDU (8.7.6/8.7.3/CNS-4.0p) with ESMTP id RAA08314 for ; Tue, 13 May 1997 17:00:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from conroyt@localhost) by acs4.bu.edu (8.8.4/) id SAA42377; Tue, 13 May 1997 18:42:16 -0400 Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 18:42:16 -0400 (EDT) From: thomas conroy Subject: Re: Ethnomethodology To: socgrad@csf.colorado.edu cc: Sociology Graduate Students -- International In-Reply-To: <97May13.180728edt.265-5@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Tue, 13 May 1997, Thomas F Brown wrote: > Of what use is ethnomethodology? It's useful for deep sociological analysis which avoids neo-positivist assumptions. > How can it help me understand the world? By showing how practical action is socially organized. > How can it help me change the world? Change it into what? To what ends? For whose use? > It strikes me so far as trivial in these respects, although perhaps more > information would change my view. That may be because it is so often misunderstood. Anyway, what is motivating your questions? I'd like to know more about how you'd want to use it. From tombrown@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu Tue May 13 18:37:36 1997 Received: from jhuml1.hcf.jhu.edu (jhuml1.hcf.jhu.edu [128.220.2.86]) by csf.Colorado.EDU (8.7.6/8.7.3/CNS-4.0p) with ESMTP id SAA10671 for ; Tue, 13 May 1997 18:37:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu by jhmail.hcf.jhu.edu (PMDF V5.0-7 #13870) id <01IIU1FX9E1C934RIG@jhmail.hcf.jhu.edu> for socgrad@csf.colorado.edu; Tue, 13 May 1997 20:37:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu by jhmail.hcf.jhu.edu (PMDF V5.0-7 #13870) id <01IIU1FTFP58934PI8@jhmail.hcf.jhu.edu> for socgrad@csf.colorado.edu; Tue, 13 May 1997 20:36:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu by jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu id <923-2>; Tue, 13 May 1997 20:36:42 -0400 Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 20:36:40 -0400 From: Thomas F Brown Subject: Re: Ethnomethodology To: socgrad@csf.colorado.edu Message-id: <97May13.203642edt.923-2@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu> Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT >> Of what use is ethnomethodology? >It's useful for deep sociological analysis which avoids neo-positivist >assumptions. What sorts of findings has EM produced that could not be obtained otherwise? >> How can it help me understand the world? >By showing how practical action is socially organized. How is it superior or distinct from other sociological methods in that regard? >> It strikes me so far as trivial in these respects, although perhaps more >> information would change my view. >Anyway, what is motivating your questions? I'd like to know more about >how you'd want to use it. The problem is that I have no motivation to use it at all until I see what it's good for. What findings can it produce that are otherwise unobtainable or more difficult to obtain? My exposure to EM is minimal. I have read about the breaching (correct spelling) experiments, which struck me as perverse, borderline cruel, and ultimately unproductive. I have not been motivated to learn more, although I try to remain open-minded since I am fairly ignorant about the topic. PS: Garfinkel wrote a wonderful article in the mid-50s on degradation rituals. It was beautifully ironic in that it was obviously an ethnographical take on the McCarthy hearings even though it was written as theory and never once mentioned a specific social setting. So having seen that he can turn out great work like that, I actually do remain open to being convinced with regards to the EM stuff. From dkatz@wpo.it.luc.edu Wed May 14 15:45:51 1997 Received: from wpo.it.luc.edu (wpo.it.luc.edu [147.126.110.24]) by csf.Colorado.EDU (8.7.6/8.7.3/CNS-4.0p) with SMTP id PAA14126 for ; Wed, 14 May 1997 15:45:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from LUCHICAGO-Message_Server by wpo.it.luc.edu with Novell_GroupWise; Wed, 14 May 1997 16:45:22 -0500 Message-Id: Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 15:32:13 -0500 From: David Katz To: socgrad@csf.colorado.edu, jcalabro@osf1.gmu.edu Subject: Re: Virtual Identities and Communities ...refs ??? -Reply Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Jeanne-- I agree with you that the Internet is a medium in which marginalized groups can build community--I have found this to be the case in my own research on Neo-Pagans. However, I am highly skeptical of any claim that the Internet can be used to overcome inequalities. Let's face it, outside of Bill Gates' fantasy land, economic class (and associated educational opportunities) will continue to be a significant factor in who gets Internet access. Also, I'm not sure how forming virtual communities translates into the "cultural authority" that you speak of. A marginalized group that has a strong sense of community identity is still marginalized. David Katz Graduate Student Loyola University Chicago --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> "Jeanne A.B. Calabro" 05/13/97 12:22am >>>A lot of people worry about the current self-selection of membership in these communities, because there is a threshold of skills and education and economics in order to have the means to access the internet. After my research, however, I am really excited about the potential for the internet to overcome many of the inequalities experienced by marginal populations in terms of having voice, cultural authority, and access, that is, once computers are more readily available to all. From rgriffin@wsu.edu Wed May 14 16:30:01 1997 Received: from cheetah.it.wsu.edu (cheetah.it.wsu.edu [134.121.1.8]) by csf.Colorado.EDU (8.7.6/8.7.3/CNS-4.0p) with ESMTP id QAA15174 for ; Wed, 14 May 1997 16:29:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rgriffin.yakama.wsu.edu (apt242195.yakama.wsu.edu [134.121.242.195]) by cheetah.it.wsu.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id PAA28822 for ; Wed, 14 May 1997 15:29:56 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 15:29:56 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199705142229.PAA28822@cheetah.it.wsu.edu> X-Sender: rgriffin@mail.wsu.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Sociology Graduate Students -- International From: Rob Griffin Subject: Re: Virtual Identities and Communities ...refs ??? -Reply David, I believe Jeanne is aware of that (see below). I think, though, one needs to look beyond that to the "what if." For example, Portland public libraries (oregon) have computers that anyone can use that allow use of the WWW. If you combine that with things like Hotmail (if you're not familiar with this, its a free, web-based email system that only requires WWW). Suddenly, anybody who can get to a free computer has access to email. I'm not saying that this is perfect, or that everyone will have access today, or even tomorrow, but there is room for a good "what if" here.... At 03:32 PM 5/14/97 -0500, David Katz wrote: >Jeanne-- >that the Internet can be used to overcome inequalities. Let's face it, >outside of Bill Gates' fantasy land, economic class (and associated >educational opportunities) will continue to be >a significant factor in who gets Internet access. >>>> "Jeanne A.B. Calabro" 05/13/97 12:22am : >authority, and access, that is, once computers are more readily available >to all. --Rob http://www.wsu.edu:8080/~rgriffin "We have to compromise." "No. Not even in the face of armageddon. Never compromise." From daniel.ryan@yale.edu Wed May 14 18:58:49 1997 Received: from mail-relay2.its.yale.edu (mail-relay2.its.yale.edu [130.132.21.73]) by csf.Colorado.EDU (8.7.6/8.7.3/CNS-4.0p) with ESMTP id SAA22287 for ; Wed, 14 May 1997 18:58:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from aeternitas.cis.yale.edu (root@aeternitas.cis.yale.edu [130.132.143.31]) by mail-relay2.its.yale.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA12702 for ; Wed, 14 May 1997 20:58:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from hud03.som.yale.edu (hud03.som.yale.edu [130.132.152.116]) by aeternitas.cis.yale.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA02219 for ; Wed, 14 May 1997 20:58:18 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <337A5FA2.2649@yale.edu> Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 20:58:11 -0400 From: DJR Reply-To: daniel.ryan@yale.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 To: socgrad@csf.colorado.edu Subject: virtual communities -- a skeptical note References: <199705142229.PAA28822@cheetah.it.wsu.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I suspect that access alone is not the issue. People for whom technology solves "real problems" are easily convinced that the solutions that are relevant to them would also be relevant to those "less fortunate" than themselves. In other words, we project our problems and our solutions (and even more so when we are purveyors of the solutions) onto others rather than trying to understand the actual situation of others. In my work in New Haven I've been impressed by how much the internet is a solution in search of a problem. My ground rule is that the first step has to be to clearly articulate the problem at hand and then to explain why and how the technology is the right tool for the job. Think about it: where in the hierarchy of problems facing a poor family would you find the ones for which email is a good solution? -- Dan Ryan Yale University Insitution for Social and Policy Studies P.O. Box 208209 New Haven, CT 06520-8209 daniel.ryan@yale.edu New Haven On Line http://statlab.stat.yale.edu/nhol From dcoon@ksu.edu Wed May 14 21:02:02 1997 Received: from mailhub.cns.ksu.edu (grunt.ksu.ksu.edu [129.130.12.17]) by csf.Colorado.EDU (8.7.6/8.7.3/CNS-4.0p) with ESMTP id VAA26962 for ; Wed, 14 May 1997 21:02:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from abc (dcoon@abc.ksu.ksu.edu [129.130.12.3]) by mailhub.cns.ksu.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5/mailhub+tar@ksu.edu) with SMTP id WAA11419 for ; Wed, 14 May 1997 22:01:57 -0500 (CDT) Received: by abc (SMI-8.6/1.34) id WAA20987; Wed, 14 May 1997 22:01:57 -0500 Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 22:01:56 -0500 (CDT) From: "Dave Alan Coon (:" X-Sender: dcoon@abc.ksu.ksu.edu To: socgrad@csf.colorado.edu cc: Sociology Graduate Students -- International Subject: Re: Virtual Identities and Communities ...refs ??? -Reply In-Reply-To: <199705142229.PAA28822@cheetah.it.wsu.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Clifford Stoll, who helped design the Internet back when it was the ARPAnet, in his book, "Silicon Snake Oil" mention many of the resons why the net still cannot be accessed by minorities, wealther highly educate men are still make the majority of net users according to Stoll. Sincerely, David Coon http://www-personal.ksu.edu/~dcoon MA Student & Graduate Teaching Asst. Dept. of Sociology, Anthropology, & Social Work http://www.ksu.edu/sasw/ Kansas State University From dcoon@ksu.edu Wed May 14 21:04:09 1997 Received: from mailhub.cns.ksu.edu (grunt.ksu.ksu.edu [129.130.12.17]) by csf.Colorado.EDU (8.7.6/8.7.3/CNS-4.0p) with ESMTP id VAA27245 for ; Wed, 14 May 1997 21:04:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from abc (dcoon@abc.ksu.ksu.edu [129.130.12.3]) by mailhub.cns.ksu.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5/mailhub+tar@ksu.edu) with SMTP id WAA11864 for ; Wed, 14 May 1997 22:04:03 -0500 (CDT) Received: by abc (SMI-8.6/1.34) id WAA21158; Wed, 14 May 1997 22:04:02 -0500 Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 22:04:02 -0500 (CDT) From: "Dave Alan Coon (:" X-Sender: dcoon@abc.ksu.ksu.edu To: socgrad@csf.colorado.edu Subject: Re: Virtual Identities and Communities Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII This is quite similar to what I plan on doing my Master's Thesis on, here are two additional URLs. THey refer to the same document, an honors thesis done on the IRC as a community (The IRC, Internet Relay Chat) is a part of the internet with chat rooms. Maybe we should trt corresponding with one another as we find various soucres or URLs. BTW, do you know of any other printed soucres besides the ones I have listed about COMMUNITY and INTERNET? I am aware of Niel Postman's "Technopoly", of Mwyrowitz's "No Sense of Place" and Sherry Turkle's two books, but are there any other sources I could use other than the URL's you listed or than the sources I listed below We might consider starting a special listeserv just on this topic. http://www.well.com/user/hlr/vircom/index.html http://www.ee.mu.oz.au/papers/emr/ I have a list of sources here: References Allen, Christina. 1996. Virtual Identities:The Social Construction of Cybered Selves. Dissertation. Evanston, Illinois:Northwestern University. Braddle, 1993. Virtual Communities:Computer-Mediated Communication and Communities of Association. Dissertation. Bloomington, Indiana:Indiana University. Dalaimo, Denise. 1995. The Simulation of Selfhood in Cyberspace. Master's thesis. Las Vegas:University of Nevada. Doheny-Farina, Stephen.1996. The Wired Neighborhood. New Haven:Yale University Press. Fischer, Claude. 1977. Networks and Places : Social Relations in the Urban Setting. New York : Free Press. Fisher, Bonnie, Michael Margolis, and David Resnick. "Breaking Ground on the Virtual Frontier: Surveying Civic Life on the Internet."American Sociologist Summer 1996 Giese, Jon. 1996. Place without Space, Identity without Body:The Role of Cooperative Narrative in Community and Identity Formation in a Text-Based Electronic Community. Dissertation. Altonia, Pennsylvania:Pennsylvania State University. Gussfield, Joseph. 1975. Community: A Critical Response. New York: Harper and Row. Hillery, George A. 1955. "Definitions of Community: Areas of Agreement." Rural Sociology 20:111-123 Hiltz, Starr Roxanne and Turoff, Murray. 1978. The Network Nation:Human Communication via Computer. Reading, Massachusetts: Addison-Wesley Publishing Company, Inc. (there is also a much newer revised edition, Barry Wellman's notion of community networks is used in this text) Jones, Steven, ed. 1995.CyberSociety:Computer-Mediated Communication and Community. Thousand Oaks, California:SAGE Publications Ltd. Ludlow, Peter. 1996. High Noon on the Electronic Frontier: Conceptual Issues in Cyberspace. Cambridge, Massachusetts:MIT Press. Reid, Elizabeth. 1991. Communication and Community:On Internet Relay Chat. Honours thesis. Melbourne, Australia:University of Melbourne. Rheingold, Howard. 1993. The Virtual Community. Reading, Massachusetts:Addison-Wesley Publishing Company. Shields, Rob, ed. 1996. Cultures of Internet:Virtual Spaces, Real Histories, Living Bodies. Thousand Oaks, California:SAGE Publications Ltd. (this book is a collection of articles, a few of which are about the USENET, one of them about community on ALT.TV.SOAPS) Surratt, Carla. 1996. The Sociology of Everyday Life in Computer-Mediated Communities. Arizona:Arizona State University. Wellman, Barry. 1979. "The Community Question: The Intimate Networks of East Yonkers."American Journal of Sociology. 84:1201-1231. Sincerely, David Coon http://www-personal.ksu.edu/~dcoon MA Student & Graduate Teaching Asst. Dept. of Sociology, Anthropology, & Social Work http://www.ksu.edu/sasw/ Kansas State University From jvaughn@nimbus.ocis.temple.edu Thu May 15 04:34:56 1997 Received: from nimbus.ocis.temple.edu (nimbus.ocis.temple.edu [155.247.166.101]) by csf.Colorado.EDU (8.7.6/8.7.3/CNS-4.0p) with ESMTP id EAA19248 for ; Thu, 15 May 1997 04:34:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from jvaughn@localhost) by nimbus.ocis.temple.edu (8.8.5/8.6.12) id GAA11422 for socgrad@csf.colorado.edu; Thu, 15 May 1997 06:34:35 -0400 (EDT) From: Jennifer Vaughn Message-Id: <199705151034.GAA11422@nimbus.ocis.temple.edu> Subject: Re: Virtual Identities and Communities To: socgrad@csf.colorado.edu Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 06:34:35 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: from Dave Alan Coon at "May 14, 97 10:04:02 pm" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dave (and others interested in this topic), I was going to redo my webpage this summer, and I am going to make a page with links and a bibliography for works done on the internet. I already have quite a collection of URLs and book titles, but I'm sure there are many that I'm missing. Anyway, I'd love to have some help on this project. If anyone is interested in working with me, especially if you know any html, please let me know. I'm not actually going to start on this for a couple of weeks because I have to go home to Illinois to plan my wedding. :) And my parents aren't hooked up to the internet yet, so I won't be able to access my email, but once I get back I'll start working. So let me know everyone! :) I'm not leaving until Saturday so you can all write me back soon. Jen From dcoon@ksu.edu Thu May 15 05:49:50 1997 Received: from mailhub.cns.ksu.edu (grunt.ksu.ksu.edu [129.130.12.17]) by csf.Colorado.EDU (8.7.6/8.7.3/CNS-4.0p) with ESMTP id FAA20987 for ; Thu, 15 May 1997 05:49:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from nbc (dcoon@nbc.ksu.ksu.edu [129.130.12.5]) by mailhub.cns.ksu.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5/mailhub+tar@ksu.edu) with SMTP id GAA25785 for ; Thu, 15 May 1997 06:49:46 -0500 (CDT) Received: by nbc (SMI-8.6/1.34) id GAA01929; Thu, 15 May 1997 06:49:45 -0500 Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 06:49:45 -0500 (CDT) From: "Dave Alan Coon (:" X-Sender: dcoon@nbc.ksu.ksu.edu To: socgrad@csf.colorado.edu cc: Sociology Graduate Students -- International Subject: Re: Virtual Identities and Communities In-Reply-To: <199705151034.GAA11422@nimbus.ocis.temple.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I know quite a bi about HTML and I know al list of about 9 or 10 URLs related to this topic, I have an Intersession course unitl JUne 6. After June 6 I will be glad to help you develop your page of related sites. Sincerely, David Coon http://www-personal.ksu.edu/~dcoon MA Student & Graduate Teaching Asst. Dept. of Sociology, Anthropology, & Social Work http://www.ksu.edu/sasw/ Kansas State University From cassell@frosty.irss.unc.edu Thu May 15 06:43:53 1997 Received: from frosty.irss.unc.edu (frosty.irss.unc.edu [152.2.32.82]) by csf.Colorado.EDU (8.7.6/8.7.3/CNS-4.0p) with SMTP id GAA26674 for ; Thu, 15 May 1997 06:43:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from cassell@localhost) by frosty.irss.unc.edu (8.6.12/8.6.10) id IAA28951; Thu, 15 May 1997 08:42:44 -0400 Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 08:42:43 -0400 (EDT) From: Jim Cassell To: Sociology Graduate Student Discussion , Teaching Sociology Subject: "Talk of the Nation" program on academic careers today (5/15) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII The second hour of today's Talk of the Nation will look at the "college faculty system." From the description on NPR's web site (http://www.npr.ogr/programs/totn/rundowns/1997/May/totn.05.15.97) they'll be focusing on the use of "teaching assistants to fill in for professors busy with research and publishing." One of the panelists, Michelle Mueller, is a graduate instructor of sociology at Michigan. Check with your local NPR affiliate for the TOTN air time in your area. Best, Jim ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ James Cassell Institute for Research in Social Science e-mail: cassell@irss.unc.edu University of North Carolina Ph: 919/962-0782 Fx: 919/962-4777 Chapel Hill, NC 27599-3355 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From TR.Young@uvm.edu Thu May 15 07:10:54 1997 Received: from smtpgate.uvm.edu (smtpgate.uvm.edu [132.198.101.121]) by csf.Colorado.EDU (8.7.6/8.7.3/CNS-4.0p) with SMTP id HAA28781; Thu, 15 May 1997 07:10:53 -0600 (MDT) Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 07:10:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 8N9J6 (208.18.225.22) by smtpgate.uvm.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1a) with SMTP id <0.DF0790F0@smtpgate.uvm.edu>; Thu, 15 May 1997 9:10:45 -0400 Message-Id: <1.5.4.16.19970515091027.30d7407e@pop.uvm.edu> X-Sender: tryoung@pop.uvm.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: socgrad@csf.colorado.edu From: TR Young Subject: Richard Quinney Cc: ahs-talk@ncsu.edu I have recieved news from Richard Quinney. He will retire from Northern Illinois as of 31 December this year. But, with a bit of luck, he will not retire from the quest for knowledge, wisdom and a being-at-home-in-the-world...which is his present and future work. Richard is undecided about how he will pursue this larger, wiser goal. I will write to him today suggesting he adopt my game plan...to visit, meet and get to know as many faculty and students in as many places as possible the next 10 or 20 years...as health and energy permit. For me, such visit is enlivening. While I am always glad to come home again; and while moving and settling into new places with new challenges is a high-energy process, still the students I meet make it all worth while...all the small problems. I expect that Quinney would find the same joie d'vivre as do I find on such new faculties. For my generation, Richard has been inspiration. He gave to American Criminology, a larger and more sociological dimension. While others were teaching a narrow and one-sided social psychology, Quinney was looking at the larger political economies in which law was produced, policing was pre-shaped and prisons were built. While most criminologists subscribed to punishment as the solution to crime, Quinney taught that the proper path toward a low-crime society involved peace-making more than infliction of pain. So...my suggestion to those of you on the three networks to which I send this post, is that you consider the possibility of inviting Richard Quinney to join your faculty for a semester and to share his gentle wisdoms with your students; graduate and undergraduate alike. For that to happen, a faculty needs to know that Richard has gone beyond criminology...such a faculty would have to be a bit more flexible in course design and course content than would be the case for most visiting professors. Quinney uses photography as both a means and a method to the knowing of a social life world. Quinney is now more oriented to the sociology of peace than that of crime and punishment; to a knowledge process aimed more at '...empathy and caring than explanation and mastery.' In responding to a friendly critic, Richard has accepted that the old, now-of-date mission of the knowledge process; that of a spectator approach, of '...knowledge at a distance...' was more a source of alienation and despair than affirmation and joie d'vivre. He now sees '... knowledge as a practical social skill...' more so than as an intellectual enterprize. As do I...as do all affirmative post- modern scholars and writers. I have good reason to think that Richard would be most receptive to an invitation at a university with a rich cultural and artistic community from which to draw inspiration and to which to give of his own talent in such endeavor. Most universities support a creative spirit such as his; most would find him, as do I, a national treasure from which to upon and to which to make contribution. I expect that good weather and adequate accomodations would have especial appeal to Richard and his wife. If one is a graduate student, one might print out this post and give it to the proper committee or to a friendly faculty person. I think you might find such an effort to be a source of satsifaction for the rest of your life. TR Young TR Young Sociology U/Vermont TR.Young@uvm.edu From jstein@ucla.edu Thu May 15 12:13:38 1997 Received: from rho.ben2.ucla.edu (rho.ben2.ucla.edu [164.67.131.31]) by csf.Colorado.EDU (8.7.6/8.7.3/CNS-4.0p) with ESMTP id MAA18720 for ; Thu, 15 May 1997 12:13:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from oid ([164.67.142.39]) by rho.ben2.ucla.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id LAA36998 for ; Thu, 15 May 1997 11:13:36 -0700 Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 11:13:36 -0700 Message-Id: <2.2.16.19970515110735.08f7d126@pop.ben2.ucla.edu> X-Sender: jstein@pop.ben2.ucla.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: socgrad@csf.colorado.edu From: Jill Marie Stein Subject: re: Harold Garfinkel As a student of Harold Garfinkel's here at UCLA, I can't resist telling some HG stories myself, from one who "sat at the foot of the master". Personally TR, I like to think of Harold as being more of a "character" than an "ass-hole", but either way he is definitely NOT an easy person. When I decided to enroll in his grad course on Ethnomethodology, I did so knowing that there was as much a chance of getting an "F" as an "A", (he had been known to fail otherwise excellent students) and that I was willing to risk that just for the experience of working with him. The entire class was like an experiment in EM. I had the sensation the whole time that I was chasing a mirage... just as I started to come upon something that I could grasp, my previous understanding would disappear as I took another step forward. It was absolutely exhilarating. Harold often created his own vocabulary for referring to things (I suppose he found the given language too constraining), and once you got the meaning of the words, he would make up new ones. He would give us vexing assignments (ie: go home and watch the phone ringing), which he would rarely explain or discuss even after we completed them. He patently disavowed not only others' interpretations of his work (and their own EM studies), but the value of almost anything he had ever done up until what he was currently working on (scientific discovery). During the semester he took each of his students (only a half dozen or so had survived past the first weeks), individually, to lunch and discussed what we were interested in. His encouragement to continue in radical or controversial pursuits was something I will always treasure. He told me to learn to play the game but to look for those (subversive) compatriots where I could find them. His final assignment for the course was for us to write a "Dear Harold" letter telling him what we got out of it. I called him to ask whether I could turn the paper in late and he hung up on me. I took that as a "no" and made the deadline. I won't say here what grade I got, it wasn't the point. What I can say is that studying with him was one of the great highlights of my career as a sociologist, and perhaps beyond. JILL From cassell@frosty.irss.unc.edu Thu May 15 13:48:29 1997 Received: from frosty.irss.unc.edu (frosty.irss.unc.edu [152.2.32.82]) by csf.Colorado.EDU (8.7.6/8.7.3/CNS-4.0p) with SMTP id NAA24035 for ; Thu, 15 May 1997 13:48:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from cassell@localhost) by frosty.irss.unc.edu (8.6.12/8.6.10) id PAA04472; Thu, 15 May 1997 15:47:21 -0400 Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 15:47:20 -0400 (EDT) From: Jim Cassell To: Sociology Graduate Student Discussion Subject: job notice (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII FYI - Jim ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ James Cassell Institute for Research in Social Science e-mail: cassell@irss.unc.edu University of North Carolina Ph: 919/962-0782 Fx: 919/962-4777 Chapel Hill, NC 27599-3355 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 15:42:37 -0500 From: Nancy Marshall To: ESSOC-L@UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU Subject: job notice ** please post ** please post ** please post ** please post ** please post ** POSITION DESCRIPTION Position Title: Quantitative Social Science Methodologist Deadline for Applications: July 1, 1997 PRIMARY FUNCTION: To provide expert methodological assistance to research projects at the Wellesley Centers for Women, which includes the Stone Center for Developmental Services and Studies and the Center for Research on Women. The Methodologist reports directly to the Executive Director of the Wellesley Centers for Women. Duties/Responsibilities: 1. Advise Project Directors at the Stone Center and the Center for Research on Women on appropriate research design, statistical methods, sampling techniques, scale development and psychometrics, etc. for research projects conducted at the centers. 2. Participate in the development and preparation of research proposals. 3. Participate in data analysis for research projects at the centers. 4. Co-author papers as part of participation in research projects. 5. Other tasks as agreed upon with the Executive Director of WCW. Organizational Relationships: The Methodologist is a member of the staff of the Wellesley Centers for Women. As such, the Methodologist has both internal and external organizational relationships. The Methodologist will work closely with multiple Project Directors at the Center for Research on Women and the Stone Center, as well as with the Executive Director of the Wellesley Centers for Women. The Methodologist will also represent the organization at professional meetings, and to colleagues at other institutions. Minimum Position Requirements: Doctorate in developmental psychology, social psychology, sociology, or related field preferred, ABD considered. Substantive background in the social sciences required, background in child development, women's development over the life span, or ethnic studies preferred. Must have extensive experience in quantitative data analysis, study design and psychometrics. Candidate must be knowledeable in one or more of the following areas: growth modeling, structural equations, confirmatory factor analysis, survival analysis, and measurement development. Must be organized, flexible, able to set priorities, and to work on multiple projects simultaneously. Must have good oral and written communication skills. Must be able to work with colleagues from multiple disciplines and cultural backgrounds, and in a culturally-diverse environment. Send letter of application and CV or resume to: Nancy Marshall Wellesley Centers for Women Wellesley College Wellesley, Ma 02181 NO PHONE CALLS. We will set up interviews for selected candidates by July 15th. From TR.Young@uvm.edu Thu May 15 14:41:47 1997 Received: from smtpgate.uvm.edu (smtpgate.uvm.edu [132.198.101.121]) by csf.Colorado.EDU (8.7.6/8.7.3/CNS-4.0p) with SMTP id OAA25992 for ; Thu, 15 May 1997 14:41:44 -0600 (MDT) Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 14:41:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 8N9J6 (208.18.225.38) by smtpgate.uvm.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1a) with SMTP id <0.DE5B9AE0@smtpgate.uvm.edu>; Thu, 15 May 1997 16:41:42 -0400 Message-Id: <1.5.4.16.19970515164124.0f7f3e28@pop.uvm.edu> X-Sender: tryoung@pop.uvm.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: socgrad@csf.colorado.edu From: TR Young Subject: re: Harold Garfinkel I accept your friendly amendment to my characterization of HG; in general...in the particular instance of which I spoke crude, insensitive, uncolleagial and/or other synomyns are acceptable. ....and it is good to know that working with him was a high- light in your program... TR At 11:13 AM 5/15/97 -0700, you wrote: >As a student of Harold Garfinkel's here at UCLA, I can't resist telling some >HG stories myself, from one who "sat at the foot of the master". Personally >TR, I like to think of Harold as being more of a "character" than an >"ass-hole", but either way he is definitely NOT an easy person. When I >decided to enroll in his grad course on Ethnomethodology, I did so knowing >that there was as much a chance of getting an "F" as an "A", (he had been >known to fail otherwise excellent students) and that I was willing to risk >that just for the experience of working with him. The entire class was >like an experiment in EM. I had the sensation the whole time that I was >chasing a mirage... just as I started to come upon something that I could >grasp, my previous understanding would disappear as I took another step >forward. It was absolutely exhilarating. Harold often created his own >vocabulary for referring to things (I suppose he found the given language >too constraining), and once you got the meaning of the words, he would make >up new ones. He would give us vexing assignments (ie: go home and watch >the phone ringing), which he would rarely explain or discuss even after we >completed them. He patently disavowed not only others' interpretations of >his work (and their own EM studies), but the value of almost anything he had >ever done up until what he was currently working on (scientific discovery). >During the semester he took each of his students (only a half dozen or so >had survived past the first weeks), individually, to lunch and discussed >what we were interested in. His encouragement to continue in radical or >controversial pursuits was something I will always treasure. He told me to >learn to play the game but to look for those (subversive) compatriots where >I could find them. His final assignment for the course was for us to write >a "Dear Harold" letter telling him what we got out of it. I called him to >ask whether I could turn the paper in late and he hung up on me. I took >that as a "no" and made the deadline. I won't say here what grade I got, it >wasn't the point. What I can say is that studying with him was one of the >great highlights of my career as a sociologist, and perhaps beyond. JILL > > > TR Young Sociology U/Vermont TR.Young@uvm.edu From lmiller@weber.ucsd.edu Thu May 15 14:42:52 1997 Received: from weber.ucsd.edu (weber.ucsd.edu [132.239.147.2]) by csf.Colorado.EDU (8.7.6/8.7.3/CNS-4.0p) with ESMTP id OAA26082 for ; Thu, 15 May 1997 14:42:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from lmiller@localhost) by weber.ucsd.edu (8.8.3/8.8.3) id NAA20820 for socgrad@csf.colorado.edu; Thu, 15 May 1997 13:42:48 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 13:42:48 -0700 (PDT) From: Laura Miller Message-Id: <199705152042.NAA20820@weber.ucsd.edu> To: socgrad@csf.colorado.edu Subject: Talk of the Nation Thanks Jim for alerting us to the Talk of the Nation program. I found it quite interesting, but was amazed that a program about the use of grad students in teaching roles did not have any grad students among their main panelists. We're supposed to listen to some physics prof talk about teaching assistants? What a surprise that he'd never come across grad students acting as lecturers, since I assume that it almost entirely occurs in the humanities & social sciences. I think the most eloquent and honest statements came from two sociology grad students (1 from Michigan, 1 from Madison) who we heard from briefly. But of course sociology grads would know how to explain exploitation. :) People on the list may be interested in checking out an article in this week's Chronicle of Higher Education (May 16 issue). There's a long piece on Cary Nelson and the book he's just published which, among other things, really goes after the university's exploitation of grad student labor. Laura Miller From conroyt@bu.edu Thu May 15 16:30:19 1997 Received: from acs4.bu.edu (ACS4.BU.EDU [128.197.154.40]) by csf.Colorado.EDU (8.7.6/8.7.3/CNS-4.0p) with ESMTP id QAA05251 for ; Thu, 15 May 1997 16:30:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from conroyt@localhost) by acs4.bu.edu (8.8.4/) id SAA160334; Thu, 15 May 1997 18:29:10 -0400 Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 18:29:10 -0400 (EDT) From: thomas conroy Sender: thomas conroy Reply-To: thomas conroy Subject: Re: Ethnomethodology To: Thomas F Brown cc: Sociology Graduate Students -- International In-Reply-To: <97May13.203642edt.923-2@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII On Tue, 13 May 1997, Thomas F Brown wrote: TB: Of what use is ethnomethodology? TC: It's useful for deep sociological analysis which avoids neo-positivist assumptions. TB: What sorts of findings has EM produced that could not be obtained otherwise? Ethno, which calls the results of its studies "demonstrations" rather than "findings" (so as to differentiate itself from what it calls "formal analytic" sociology and its orientation toward the logic of experimental methods) is useful for showing how the facticity of social order (ie., the sorts of conceptual understandings of social order which are used to theoretically highlight them) rests upon a series of taken-for-granted, "seen but unnoticed" intersubjectively coordinated practical actions (including the action of accounting) and schemes of practical action. For example, the fundamental sociological concept of the "role" is a specification of what ethnomethodologists call "membership categories." Membership categories are ordered by a series of constitutive rules for their use. Whereas sociological analysts may seek to determine and to specify the roles of, let's say, some organization, the study of membership categorization, of the rules and "devices" by which they are used could be quite useful toward uncovering how users of various role terms might purposively shift back and forth, and to do so based not on "subjective meanings" of terms, but instead on the social logic of how categories are used. To speak of roles is, in a sense, to be employing analysts' constructs; that may be useful for certain purposes, but to seek out membership categories is to locate something which is a phenomenon in its own right. TB: How can it help me understand the world? TC: By showing how practical action is socially organized. TB: How is it superior or distinct from other sociological methods in that regard? I don't want to claim that it is superior in toto; it's simply a superior way of studying "ethno methods." It is however distinctive in such ways as (a.) offering different forms of explanation (procedural rather than quasi-causal or probabilistic) (b.) remaining "indifferent" to the distinction between sociological and common sense explanations/accounts of phenomena, (c.) preferring to demonstrate rather than to represent social order, through a detailed analysis of mundane, concrete examples (d.) being disconcerned with "subjective meaning" and (e.) being, in its aim, anti-dualist (ie., being indifferent toward such frameworks as - objective/subjective, macro/micro, causal/interpretive, etc. Of course, I should add that it often gets lumped in with the rest of "interpretive" or "interactionist" sociology, but the differences between it and the rest of them are profound. TB: It strikes me so far as trivial in these respects, although perhaps more information would change my view. TC: Anyway, what is motivating your questions? I'd like to know more about how you'd want to use it. TB: The problem is that I have no motivation to use it at all until I see what it's good for. What findings can it produce that are otherwise unobtainable or more difficult to obtain? You may remain unsatisfied. However, I'd recommend the book ETHNOMETHODOLOGY AND THE HUMAN SCIENCES, 1991, Cambridge University Press, edited by Graham Button. It will offer a careful elaboration of many of the points I've made above (as well as a bunch more that I haven't even touched upon). The theme of the book is "respecification," and the studies show how such topics as logic, ethics, measurement, language, culture, etc., might be made available for seeing them as bound to systems of practical action. TB: My exposure to EM is minimal. I have read about the breaching (correct spelling) experiments, which struck me as perverse, borderline cruel, and ultimately unproductive. I have not been motivated to learn more, although I try to remain open-minded since I am fairly ignorant about the topic. Well, people often associate the breaching experiments with ethno because they are vivid. Of course, the Milgrim experiments - which have attained exemplar status in experimental social psychology - strike me as no less cruel and perverse. But, as a student of ethno for more than 10 years, I can assure you that there is much more to it than simply one set of demonstrations. You might also want to check out the "ethno hotline". You can access it at: `ethno@cios.llc.rpi.edu' TB: PS: Garfinkel wrote a wonderful article in the mid-50s on degradation rituals. It was beautifully ironic in that it was obviously an ethnographical take on the McCarthy hearings even though it was written as theory and never once mentioned a specific social setting. So having seen that he can turn out great work like that, I actually do remain open to being convinced with regards to the EM stuff. I'm glad to hear your positive attitude and hope that my comments have helped and encouraged you to look further. Cheers Tom Conroy Sociology Boston University From conroyt@bu.edu Thu May 15 16:36:39 1997 Received: from acs4.bu.edu (ACS4.BU.EDU [128.197.154.40]) by csf.Colorado.EDU (8.7.6/8.7.3/CNS-4.0p) with ESMTP id QAA05664 for ; Thu, 15 May 1997 16:36:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from conroyt@localhost) by acs4.bu.edu (8.8.4/) id SAA79686; Thu, 15 May 1997 18:34:55 -0400 Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 18:34:55 -0400 (EDT) From: thomas conroy Sender: thomas conroy Reply-To: thomas conroy Subject: Re: Talk of the Nation To: Laura Miller cc: Sociology Graduate Students -- International In-Reply-To: <199705152042.NAA20820@weber.ucsd.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII On Thu, 15 May 1997, Laura Miller wrote: > People on the list may be interested in checking out an article in this > week's Chronicle of Higher Education (May 16 issue). There's a long > piece on Cary Nelson and the book he's just published which, among other > things, really goes after the university's exploitation of grad student > labor. > Laura, in addition to Nelson's work, there is also a book coming out edited by people associated with the journal "Social Text," called WILL TEACH FOR FOOD. This is an elaboration of Social Text's recent issue on the Yale TA Strike and will offer both analysis and suggestion for action. Should be interesting. Tom Conroy From watterwo@sobek.Colorado.EDU Fri May 16 00:06:25 1997 Received: from sobek.Colorado.EDU (sobek.Colorado.EDU [128.138.151.62]) by csf.Colorado.EDU (8.7.6/8.7.3/CNS-4.0p) with ESMTP id AAA29885 for ; Fri, 16 May 1997 00:06:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from watterwo@localhost) by sobek.Colorado.EDU (8.8.5/8.8.5/Unixops/Hesiod/(SDM)) id AAA18610; Fri, 16 May 1997 00:06:12 -0600 (MDT) Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 00:06:11 -0600 (MDT) From: Jay Watterworth To: Jill Marie Stein cc: Sociology Graduate Students -- International Subject: re: Harold Garfinkel In-Reply-To: <2.2.16.19970515110735.08f7d126@pop.ben2.ucla.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Nice way of putting your experiences. Jay On Thu, 15 May 1997, Jill Marie Stein wrote: > As a student of Harold Garfinkel's here at UCLA, I can't resist telling some > HG stories myself, from one who "sat at the foot of the master". Personally > TR, I like to think of Harold as being more of a "character" than an > "ass-hole", but either way he is definitely NOT an easy person. When I > decided to enroll in his grad course on Ethnomethodology, I did so knowing > that there was as much a chance of getting an "F" as an "A", (he had been > known to fail otherwise excellent students) and that I was willing to risk > that just for the experience of working with him. The entire class was > like an experiment in EM. I had the sensation the whole time that I was > chasing a mirage... just as I started to come upon something that I could > grasp, my previous understanding would disappear as I took another step > forward. It was absolutely exhilarating. Harold often created his own > vocabulary for referring to things (I suppose he found the given language > too constraining), and once you got the meaning of the words, he would make > up new ones. He would give us vexing assignments (ie: go home and watch > the phone ringing), which he would rarely explain or discuss even after we > completed them. He patently disavowed not only others' interpretations of > his work (and their own EM studies), but the value of almost anything he had > ever done up until what he was currently working on (scientific discovery). > During the semester he took each of his students (only a half dozen or so > had survived past the first weeks), individually, to lunch and discussed > what we were interested in. His encouragement to continue in radical or > controversial pursuits was something I will always treasure. He told me to > learn to play the game but to look for those (subversive) compatriots where > I could find them. His final assignment for the course was for us to write > a "Dear Harold" letter telling him what we got out of it. I called him to > ask whether I could turn the paper in late and he hung up on me. I took > that as a "no" and made the deadline. I won't say here what grade I got, it > wasn't the point. What I can say is that studying with him was one of the > great highlights of my career as a sociologist, and perhaps beyond. JILL > > From vigil@mail.sdsu.edu Fri May 16 01:29:01 1997 Received: from mail.sdsu.edu (mail.sdsu.edu [130.191.25.3]) by csf.Colorado.EDU (8.7.6/8.7.3/CNS-4.0p) with ESMTP id BAA02805 for ; Fri, 16 May 1997 01:28:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (vigil@localhost) by mail.sdsu.edu (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id AAA14000 for ; Fri, 16 May 1997 00:28:49 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 00:28:49 -0700 (PDT) From: John V To: Sociology Graduate Students -- International Subject: Re: "Talk of the Nation" program on academic careers today (5/15) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > The second hour of today's Talk of the Nation will look at the "college > faculty system." From the description on NPR's web site > (http://www.npr.ogr/programs/totn/rundowns/1997/May/totn.05.15.97) For those of you whose schedules run counter to the mainstream of humanity, and can't catch TOTN on the radio, the Internet is HERE TO SERVE YOU. Real Audio provides 24 hour a day access to back shows of TOTN. You have to have a sound card, the free real audio software installed, and a web browser pointed to: http://www.real.com/contentp/npr/totn.html If you try accessing it many moons from now, the archive index is at: http://www.real.com/contentp/npr/totn_index.html Gee, can anybody tell I like Talk of the Nation a lot? From cassell@frosty.irss.unc.edu Fri May 16 05:47:59 1997 Received: from frosty.irss.unc.edu (frosty.irss.unc.edu [152.2.32.82]) by csf.Colorado.EDU (8.7.6/8.7.3/CNS-4.0p) with SMTP id FAA10976 for ; Fri, 16 May 1997 05:47:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from cassell@localhost) by frosty.irss.unc.edu (8.6.12/8.6.10) id HAA08095; Fri, 16 May 1997 07:46:51 -0400 Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 07:46:50 -0400 (EDT) From: Jim Cassell To: socgrad@csf.colorado.edu Subject: Re: Talk of the Nation In-Reply-To: <199705152042.NAA20820@weber.ucsd.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Thu, 15 May 1997, Laura Miller wrote: > Thanks Jim for alerting us to the Talk of the Nation program. I found it > quite interesting, but was amazed that a program about the use of grad > students in teaching roles did not have any grad students among their > main panelists. We're supposed to listen to some physics prof talk about > teaching assistants? What a surprise that he'd never come across grad > students acting as lecturers, since I assume that it almost entirely > occurs in the humanities & social sciences. I think the most eloquent > and honest statements came from two sociology grad students (1 from > Michigan, 1 from Madison) who we heard from briefly. But of course > sociology grads would know how to explain exploitation. :) Michelle Mueller, the grad student from Michigan, _was_ a regularly scheduled person on the program (as opposed to a someone who called in). I'm not sure why she wasn't on the panel, but it is not unusual for one or more of the "guests" to do a short interview as she did. Could be an issue of timing (since the show is done in real-time). To be honest, I'm embarrassed about recommending this show. I usually like TOTN because it features intelligent, _civil_ discourse. Yesterday's program needed a stronger referee. I would like to have heard more from O'Brien and a helluva lot less from the physicist (who name escapes me) and Martin Andersen. It seemed to me that the physicist had an ax to grind with Martin--he dug into him at every opportunity. Now I've never been fond of the Hoover Institution either, but this really got in the way of the topic. Note, also, one of the proclaimed foci of the program was the effect of "TA as teachers" on undergraduate students. This kinda got lost also. I think there were some useful bits in the program (I was working at the time, so I may have missed some stuff), but overall it sounded too much like _Crossfire_ for my tastes. More heat than light. > > People on the list may be interested in checking out an article in this > week's Chronicle of Higher Education (May 16 issue). There's a long > piece on Cary Nelson and the book he's just published which, among other > things, really goes after the university's exploitation of grad student > labor. > > Laura Miller > Thanks for the tip. One of the things missing from a lot of this discussion (especially in the general media) is any sense of the _diversity_ among post-secondary ed institutions. Like our physicist "friend," everyone looks at the institutions in their own experience and think they define the universe. (See Time Magazine's cover from a few weeks back for a good example of this.) A couple of yesterday's panelists tried to talk a bit about this, but not very much. Has anyone read Neil Rudenstine's book "In pursuit of the PhD?" One of the panelists mentioned it as a good compliation of trends and actual data. (Yes, I have empiricist tendencies; mea culpa, mea culpa, maxima mea culpa. :->) George Dennis O'Brien, the quiet member of the panel, also has a book title "All the essential half-truths about higher education" coming out from U. Chicago Press. That might also be interesting. Jim ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ James Cassell Institute for Research in Social Science e-mail: cassell@irss.unc.edu University of North Carolina Ph: 919/962-0782 Fx: 919/962-4777 Chapel Hill, NC 27599-3355 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From daniel.ryan@yale.edu Fri May 16 06:27:48 1997 Received: from mail-relay1.cis.yale.edu (mail-relay1.cis.yale.edu [130.132.21.199]) by csf.Colorado.EDU (8.7.6/8.7.3/CNS-4.0p) with ESMTP id GAA12409 for ; Fri, 16 May 1997 06:27:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from aeternitas.cis.yale.edu (root@aeternitas.cis.yale.edu [130.132.143.31]) by mail-relay1.cis.yale.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA05694 for ; Fri, 16 May 1997 08:27:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from hud03.som.yale.edu (hud03.som.yale.edu [130.132.152.116]) by aeternitas.cis.yale.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id IAA14633 for ; Fri, 16 May 1997 08:27:42 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <337C52B3.5D33@yale.edu> Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 08:27:31 -0400 From: DJR Reply-To: daniel.ryan@yale.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 To: socgrad@csf.colorado.edu Subject: "Talk of the Nation" References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit John V wrote: > > For those of you whose schedules run counter to the mainstream of > humanity, and can't catch TOTN on the radio, the Internet is HERE TO SERVE > YOU. Just to clarify -- TOTN is not carried by all NPR affilliates. It's not always our counter-main streamism that makes us depend on WWWNPR! I'm thinking it might be interesting to do a map of the US showing what NPR programs are available where. daniel.ryan@yale.edu New Haven On Line http://statlab.stat.yale.edu/nhol From TR.Young@uvm.edu Sat May 17 05:27:02 1997 Received: from smtpgate.uvm.edu (smtpgate.uvm.edu [132.198.101.121]) by csf.Colorado.EDU (8.7.6/8.7.3/CNS-4.0p) with SMTP id FAA08807; Sat, 17 May 1997 05:26:58 -0600 (MDT) Date: Sat, 17 May 1997 05:26:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 8N9J6 (208.18.225.30) by smtpgate.uvm.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1a) with SMTP id <0.B2DCF170@smtpgate.uvm.edu>; Sat, 17 May 1997 7:26:56 -0400 Message-Id: <1.5.4.16.19970517072639.0e9711c0@pop.uvm.edu> X-Sender: tryoung@pop.uvm.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: ahs-talk@ncsu.edu From: TR Young Subject: Current Issue of Humanity and Society Cc: Psn@csf.colorado.edu There are several articles in the current Issue of Humanity & Society deserving of your attention: A. Frank Lindenfeld, incoming President of AHS, discusses The Cooperative CommonWealth as an alternative to Corporate [privatized] capitalism as well as to State [bureaucratized] socialism. B. Elizabeth Mustaine and Richard Tewksbury study differences in male and female victimization in the work domain. They find that the sources are different; Wome are more at risk if they are more highly educated and if their work requires late hours. Men are at risk when they work in a metropolitan area and there is little security on the job. Their conclusion is interesting to both theory and policy in criminology: different variables produce crime for men and women; efforts to prevent crime must vary with time and place. In a word, monothetic theories of crime are not helpful nor are post hoc efforts to punish. C. William Du Bois shares his wise counsel with us on how to do applied sociology. In brief, his article shares ideas about how and why to be an activist sociologist. D. Barbara Ryan looks at identity politics with regret that it sometimes has the effect of dividing the women's movement more than promoting the well being of given sectors of the movement. While Professor Ryan acknowledges that gender politics... before identity politics...looked very much like a white middle class heterosexual politics... ...and while she more than concedes the need to support minority group affirmations, still she urges upon us coalition politics since the divisions are killing the movement. Ryan concludes her essay with a poem by Charlotte Perkins Gilman written more than 80 years ago: The Socialists and the Suffragists Your work is all the same Work together or apart Work, each of you with all your heart. Just get in the Game. E. Gino Petonito, my good colleague down at Alma College, explores hegemonic tendencies in texts on race/ethnicity. She counsels us to not impose our own categories of race/ethnicity on the changing, constantly re-constructing multiple and situated realities in and with which people must work and live. TR Young, Editor FROM THE LEFT The Summer Issue of FROM THE LEFT is in preparation. Send announcements to me at the email address above until further notice... TRY TR Young Sociology U/Vermont TR.Young@uvm.edu From qiuzq@pku.edu.cn Sat May 17 06:52:18 1997 Received: from sunrise.pku.edu.cn (sunrise.pku.edu.cn [202.112.7.11]) by csf.Colorado.EDU (8.7.6/8.7.3/CNS-4.0p) with ESMTP id GAA12872 for ; Sat, 17 May 1997 06:52:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from qiuzq ([202.112.8.129]) by sunrise.pku.edu.cn (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA00121 for ; Sat, 17 May 1997 20:52:36 -0800 (GMT) Message-Id: <199705180452.UAA00121@sunrise.pku.edu.cn> From: "QIU ZEQI" To: Subject: Re: Harold Garfinkel Date: Sat, 17 May 1997 20:41:44 +0800 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I really appreciate if anyone can help me to unsubscribe this listserver. From TR.Young@uvm.edu Sun May 18 05:03:40 1997 Received: from smtpgate.uvm.edu (smtpgate.uvm.edu [132.198.101.121]) by csf.Colorado.EDU (8.7.6/8.7.3/CNS-4.0p) with SMTP id FAA18690 for ; Sun, 18 May 1997 05:03:38 -0600 (MDT) Date: Sun, 18 May 1997 05:03:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 8N9J6 (208.18.225.34) by smtpgate.uvm.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1a) with SMTP id <0.9AE1F4F0@smtpgate.uvm.edu>; 18 May 1997 7:03:36 -0400 Message-Id: <1.5.4.16.19970518070319.392f5704@pop.uvm.edu> X-Sender: tryoung@pop.uvm.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Stephen E Philion From: TR Young Subject: Re: Current Issue of Humanity and Society Cc: ahs-talk@ncsu.edu At 02:46 PM 5/17/97 -1000, you wrote: >Hi TR, > >Thanks for this notice. Could you tell me the title of the article by >Barbara Ryan? I'm trying to find it through our library search system, >but nothing under her name shows up. > >Cheers!! > >Steve > ***************************** Steve: Apologies to BR; here is the full citation: Ryan's article is: How Much Can I Divide Thee, Let Me Count the Ways: Identity Politics in the Women's Movement. Humanity & Society, V.21, No. 1, Feb., 1997 TR TR Young Sociology U/Vermont TR.Young@uvm.edu From TR.Young@uvm.edu Sun May 18 07:06:39 1997 Received: from smtpgate.uvm.edu (smtpgate.uvm.edu [132.198.101.121]) by csf.Colorado.EDU (8.7.6/8.7.3/CNS-4.0p) with SMTP id HAA21253 for ; Sun, 18 May 1997 07:06:37 -0600 (MDT) Date: Sun, 18 May 1997 07:06:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 8N9J6 (208.18.225.34) by smtpgate.uvm.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1a) with SMTP id <0.C8751210@smtpgate.uvm.edu>; 18 May 1997 9:06:34 -0400 Message-Id: <1.5.4.16.19970518090616.392f8e28@pop.uvm.edu> X-Sender: tryoung@pop.uvm.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: socgrad@csf.colorado.edu From: TR Young Subject: Teaching Criminology: Part II Cc: TEACHSOC@maple.lemoyne.edu In Part I of this last series for socgrad, I made the case that most of the theories celebrated in crim textbooks and used to ground social policy have serious flaws; the best of the lot are those social psychological theories which stress symbolic interaction, societal reaction, identity transformations and in-group dynamics. But, these too are flawed in that they are: 1. one-sided. They do ignore that fact that such processes are common in all forms of human behavior, not just crime. 2. reductionist. They ignore the larger social context in which such group dynamics emerge and presevere. 3. exculpatory. They give a gloss of legitimacy to larger social forms and practices by treating them as unproblematic in something called a criminology. 4. politically safe. They do not engage the vast power of those who benefit from existing social arrangements which call forth/ encourage/promote crime. 5. inefficacious. Social policy grounded upon these do not help create/move us toward a low crime society. 6. mis-directing. The strong truth value they have in explaining human behavior generally, mis-direct us. We conflate between truth value and truth realm. The theories to which I refer are, again, differential association theory, labelling theory, sub-culture theory, control theory, as well as one genre which I left out, socio-biology. A word about socio- biology later. Just now, I want to lay out five kinds of crime promoted by capitalism. It is well to remember, as you think about these, that capitalism as an economic form, has made and is making many contributions to the human project; most of us have learned these in some depth: it is the most productive, the most creative, the most flexible, the most responsive and the most enlivening of the major political economies so far instituted within and between societies. It drives a wonderful knowledge process; it tends to destroy ancient systems of inequality which challenge or are useless to its goals of profit, control and growth. It is the negativities of capitalism; especially those which make the most capitalist society of all, at the same time, the most crime- ridden society of all advanced industrialized societies. And it is essential to remember that other forms of inequality drive other forms of crime and feed-back into market dynamics to produce very, very complex and non-linear dynamical processes...but that is another mini-lecture...to come. Five kinds of crime and their connections to market dynamics: 1. Street crime: by street crime, I mean those forms of crime which involve direct, face-to-face, use of force or stealth to extract value from a target outside of consent, knowledge, reciprocity or contract. They include: theft, burglary, robbery, arson, some portion of the murders we see, as well as some forms of assault. Generally, they are the Part I crimes in which the FBI is so interested and to which local police forces, rightly enough, give so much attention. a. The separation of production and distribution. Of the five major economic forms in human history, capitalism is the only one which separates production from distribution. Primitive communism, slaverly, feudalism and socialism all produce in ' order to consuem...and those who produce wealth have a permanent relationship to the wealth they produce. Women, children, slaves, serfs, peasants, and peons cannot be excluded from the distribution of clothing, food, shelter, health care or other basic resources. They can, of course, be exploited; they can be battered; they can be killed but as long as they have standing/stande/status they must be nourished. The case in not that these economic forms are better; only that, for some, the connection to the means of production depends upon market dynamics. Those who have no relationship to the means of production or have but a tenuous, relatively marginal relationship have several parallel economic systems to which they may turn for the essentials of life: 1. There is first the labor market...they can sell their labor power in competition with other marginal workers. 2. There is the kinship system...most of us depend upon kin much more than we might like to admit. This exchange system is parallel and may be larger in terms of value exchanged than the market itself. 3. Private Charity. A good many churches, communities, private individuals collect and re-distribute goods and services to the needy...the deserving poor. 4. state welfare. Since the Elizabethian Poor Laws; since the time of Bismarck especially, the county, state and nation has become ever more involved in re-dist- ributing wealth. Generally, the state collects taxes from the working class and re-distributes it to the surplus population...at which we shall now look, b. The surplus population. Capitalism is the only economic system which produces a surplus population...indeed, the very success of capitalism in improving the MEANS of production reduces the need for human labor; as Marx put it, dead capital replaces living capital. It is important to understand that the under-class is not surplus to their family; they are not surplus to their church; they are not surplus to the human project...to art, music, play or love. They are/become surplus to the production needs of factories, offices, shops, mills, mines and farms owned by private individuals whose only relationship to the under-class is that is provides a surplus labor reserve with which to keep labor costs down. c. Surplus Production. Capitalism produces far more than workers--as a class--can possibly buy back. In the first instance, with such improved technology, capitalism can produce 10, 100, 1000, 100,000 times as many pots, pans, knives, spoons, shirts, socks, scarves, pens, pencils, books or pills than can the craftsperson working with hand tools. In agriculture, in transportation, in communication, in pharmaceuticals and in fabrics, machinery ever improves; ever increases production. And, given the fact that workers do not earn 100% of the value of the wealth they produce--as a class, they cannot possibly buy back 100% of the wealth they produce. And, given pricing agreements, still more people are excluded from the market...and thus become surplus to the profit needs of private capital. All this produces a surplus which cannot be sold on the 'free' market. It is important to remember that 'surplus' food is not surplus to human need; surplus transport is not surplus to human desire; surplus housing is not surplus to human misery...it is simply surplus to market dynamics. The very fact of surplus produces second order dislocations which, given a more substantive definition of crime...would be criminal. These secondary dis-locations include: a. ruthless competition between large capitalists and small capitalists for markets leading to wave after wave of bankruptcy...leading to the ever-greater concentration of wealth and power. b. ruthless competition for markets between capitalists states leading to wave after wave of warfare...leading to economic imperialism and trans-national exploitation so come between first and third-world economies. c. ruthless competition between workers leading to the ugly identity politics which we call racism, ethno-centricism and scab-labor. d. ruthless competition between domestic and foriegn workers leading to xenophobia, national chauvinism, mean-spirited religion and a readiness to engineer the death of whole peoples...with high tech, impersonal means of destruction...as well as, d. The Colonization of Desire. A large and growing surplus of clothing, cars, cosmetics, beverages, guns, jewelries, television sets, radios, stoves, refrigerators, tires, bicycles, houses and pharmaceuticals...surplus in these commodities leads capitalists to devote some portion of their income to the colonization of desire. As Marcuse put it, layer after layer of 'false needs' are generated. Count the number of shoes, shirts, sweaters, radios, dishes and pills in your closets and cupboards...if you have more than five of any, your psyche is well colonized. As long as one has discretionary income with which to purchase goods surplus to human need [but not human desire], both market and customer are well matched. While a great many people benefit from their part in colonizing desire, such colonization creates problems...especially for those in the under- class or those at the margins of the economy...for poor women with children in particular...to which we return in a moment. For those whose great talent, great genius, great beauty or great wit lends itself to the colonization of desire, the rewards are great. The salaries of ball players come not so much from the strategic importance sports has to the functional integrity of the whole society, as sociologists such as Davis and Moore have told us, but rather to the profit needs of capital intensive lines of production...or labor intensive lines when those lines have available cheap labor. Michael Jordan is case in point...one cannot but admire the grace, dignity, genial good humor of a Michael Jordan...he is, in my opinion, one of the greatest athletes to come along in a long time...Pele, Babe Tarkinson, Gayle Sayers, Babe Ruth and Magic Johnson all have the easy grace of the natural athlete which so engages our esteem and admiration. Yet for those whose desire for lifeless goods is engaged by such as Jordon or Johnson, serious psychological distortions are enjoined. For those in the underclass, desire joined with joblessness becomes a serious problem for society...this is, in marxian theory summed up by... e. The Problem of Re-Unification. If one is a priest or a puritan, the problem of re-unification is small indeed. As Thoreau said, we make ourselves wealthy by making our wants few. If one is immersed in modern, market societies with all its great skill in creating the dramaturgical impression of need, of agency, of excellence, of efficacy and of the normalcy of possessive materialism, the problem becomes; How to re-unite production by other and consumption by self. The four solutions above suffice for most: family, charity, state welfare and the odd job. For those in the under-class whose desire matches those in the middle class but whose means do not, there are several solutions which contribute to the indices of street crime: 1. We can steal what we want/desire/need. Middle classs kids have economic power via their parents which which to satisfy desire. Under-class kids have physical power and sometime use it. They may mug others more vulnerable; small children, aging women, or mature adults vulnerable in time or space. As my good friend, Bill Chambliss pointed out, middle class kids also steal, mug, assault and ravage...but those dynamics come more from the arrogance of power unconfined within values than from the arrogance of desire unconfined to market dynamics. 2. One can sell one's body for what we want/desire/need. Male and female prostitution alike serve to gain the means to match market to desire...to get the transport, the housing, the entertainment we desire so much; we owe so much to celebrities who sell their soul to advertizers. 3. We can sell our labor power to organized crime. If the wages of honest labor are low in legitimate labor markets, there is a large and growing labor market for those whose desire exceeds their grasp. 4. We can join 'deviant sub-cultures' which use 'innovative' means to achieve cultural goals...as so many crim texts tell so many students. f. Female crime. If one is a woman in the under-class; a woman with children; a woman with basic needs and/or with desires which outrun one's income, there are several solutions. These were summed up by an anonymous woman who, just before the french revolution in 1789, said that, in order to feed her children, she had to work when she could; steal when she couldn't and sell her body in between times. Again, most poor women do not use these solutions to the re-unification problem...and a good many middle class men and women do so resort when their needs/desires are less pressing. In summary, the USA has one of the highest crime rates in developed societies; has the largest surplus in shops and stores; the largest population surplus to legitimate mechanisms with which to re-unify production and distribution. The USA has a mean-spirited cheap-jack welfare system which degrades and debases the poor while supporting the wealthy in honor and dignity. This is the seedbed for street crime. Different dynamics are involved in the other four kinds of crime promoted by market dynamics. I will discuss organized crime in Part III; White Collar Crime in Part IV; corporate crime in Part V and political crime in Part VI...then will conclude this series and the lectures themselves with a discourse on postmodern criminology. Much of what is in this mini-lecture and in those to come can be found on my home page: http://www.tryoung.com TR Young Sociology U/Vermont TR.Young@uvm.edu From DMC96005@UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU Sun May 18 13:37:47 1997 Received: from UConnVM.UConn.Edu (uconnvm.uconn.edu [137.99.26.3]) by csf.Colorado.EDU (8.7.6/8.7.3/CNS-4.0p) with SMTP id NAA01926 for ; Sun, 18 May 1997 13:37:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU by UConnVM.UConn.Edu (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with BSMTP id 8932; Sun, 18 May 97 15:37:45 EDT Received: from UConnVM.UConn.Edu (NJE origin DMC96005@UCONNVM) by UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU (LMail V1.2c/1.8c) with BSMTP id 4857; Sun, 18 May 1997 15:37:45 -0400 Date: Sun, 18 May 97 15:34:09 EDT From: danielle Subject: Re: "Talk of the Nation" program on academic careers today (5/15) To: jim c In-Reply-To: Message-Id: <970518.153745.EDT.DMC96005@UConnVM.UConn.Edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT I listened to that program and they had some good points and some weaknesses. For those of you who don't listen to it, you should try sometime -- it is a great program that deals with a lot of different issues. The one thing they said that really irritated me had to do with their assumption that grad students cannot teach as well as more experienced professors. I would disagree and say that in many cases, particularly at Research I institutions, the grad students are actually the ones connecting with the students and getting them interested in sociology. That has been my experience in my two years of teaching. My students love the fact that I am accessible, and that I care, and that I am still very much excited about what I am studying and learning. The "exploitation" issue is very real however. There are many schools that totally take advantage of their grad students and justify it in some stupid and self-serving way. UCONN is good about it, in my opinion. We don't get much cash, but we get full tuition waivers and health insurance!! Any thoughts on this whole issue? -danielle at UCONN From cmsnikki@uga.cc.uga.edu Sun May 18 14:09:27 1997 Received: from dns2.uga.edu (dns2.uga.edu [128.192.1.193]) by csf.Colorado.EDU (8.7.6/8.7.3/CNS-4.0p) with ESMTP id OAA03066 for ; Sun, 18 May 1997 14:09:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sherlock.dac.uga.edu (sherlock.dac.uga.edu [128.192.31.2]) by dns2.uga.edu (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id QAA18906 for ; Sun, 18 May 1997 16:09:26 -0400 Received: from soc03 (socugadv.dac.uga.edu [128.192.31.113]) by sherlock.dac.uga.edu (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id PAA09216 for ; Sun, 18 May 1997 15:59:00 -0400 Message-Id: <199705181959.PAA09216@sherlock.dac.uga.edu> From: "Nicole Pallotta" To: socgrad@csf.colorado.edu Date: Sun, 18 May 1997 16:09:41 -500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: "Talk of the Nation" program on academic careers today Reply-to: cmsnikki@uga.cc.uga.edu X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.42a) I don't know anything about this show, but did they mention Martin Anderson's (1996), _Imposters in the Temple_? Although the exploitation aspect with which he deals is very real, he has an irritating chapter called "Children Teaching Children", in which he says, among other offensive generalizations, that "Students might even take more interest in their courses if they were taught by real professors, not one of their beer-drinking buddies." (63) Much of the typification schema he uses to describe graduate students is insulting and flat out wrong, not to mention his blatant age-ism, assuming all graduate students are "children", only 2 years older than the "children" they are teaching. As if all graduate students are these little wet- behind- the- ears- fresh- out- of- college- beer -drinking yahoos who can't teach, grade or resist the temptation to date their students and take them out for drinks!!!! Please. As if a person of twenty-three or four is a "child" anyway -- even if that were the average age of graduate students. His attitude is soooo condescending, which is really too bad because the issues he raises are important and need to be dealt with. However, they need to be handled in a more responsible and less sensationalistic way. He does well with the exploitation part, but when he gets around to painting a picture of the average graduate student teaching Mr. and Mrs. America's "wide eyed and hopeful" children , the effect is absolutely nauseating. quite irritating. Nicole R. Pallotta Department of Sociology University of Georgia Athens, Ga. 30602-1611 (706) 542-3192 From DAVIDSON@UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU Sun May 18 14:27:55 1997 Received: from UConnVM.UConn.Edu (uconnvm.uconn.edu [137.99.26.3]) by csf.Colorado.EDU (8.7.6/8.7.3/CNS-4.0p) with SMTP id OAA03508 for ; Sun, 18 May 1997 14:27:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU by UConnVM.UConn.Edu (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with BSMTP id 8951; Sun, 18 May 97 16:27:54 EDT Received: from UConnVM.UConn.Edu (NJE origin DAVIDSON@UCONNVM) by UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU (LMail V1.2c/1.8c) with BSMTP id 5671; Sun, 18 May 1997 16:27:54 -0400 Date: Sun, 18 May 97 16:15:41 EDT From: Alan Subject: Talk of the Nation To: socgrad@CSF.COLORADO.EDU Message-Id: <970518.162754.EDT.DAVIDSON@UConnVM.UConn.Edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT I didn't hear the show (although I might try to call it up at some point), but one must keep in mind where most of the discourse is coming from. One should keep in mind that Martin Anderson is a "scholar-in-residence" at the Hoover Institution, along with such eminent notables as Thomas Sowell. One hears similar concerns about graduate students teaching (versus faculty) from cost-conscious Board of Trustees, state legislators, and the like. However, looking around UCONN (where, at one time or another almost all graduate students have relatively good evaluations -- at least pre-dissertation writing), there are some faculty (in the soc. department and others) that we are doing a favor keeping undergrads. away from. Perhaps in an ideal world, a faculty member who is strongly committed to teaching is better than a graduate student who, while they might be highly committed, might lack experience and have an occasional lecture where "the students just don't get it." Likewise, graduate students sometimes are too busy or too tired to teach well -- I made a personal decision to back out for the Fall after 9 consecutive years). On the other hand, there is the issue of the internal political economy of academe in the 1990's -- the only folks who are going to be interested in teaching at research 1's and who are also going to be high on recruitment committee lists are folks who primarily wish to do research and only secondarily teach. There are tons of good teachers who either never get their Ph.D.'s, spend 20 years to do so, or never get tenure -- and this message is very clearly stressed both to graduate students and junior profs. Hence, in order for faculty to get the grants and do the research and get the superstar pubs. expected of them for tenure, there isn't much of a choice but to have graduate students teach -- and, if you have faculty for whom teaching is a secondary priority, then it is probably best for all concerned. From JHuber1069@aol.com Mon May 19 08:01:15 1997 Received: from emout09.mail.aol.com (emout09.mx.aol.com [198.81.11.24]) by csf.Colorado.EDU (8.7.6/8.7.3/CNS-4.0p) with ESMTP id IAA11846 for ; Mon, 19 May 1997 08:01:13 -0600 (MDT) From: JHuber1069@aol.com Received: (from root@localhost) by emout09.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id KAA19325 for socgrad@csf.colorado.edu; Mon, 19 May 1997 10:01:12 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 10:01:12 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970519100107_-1934011199@emout09.mail.aol.com> To: socgrad@csf.colorado.edu Subject: Re: "Talk of the Nation" program on academic careers today (5/15) I heard the program too and was especially offended by Anderson's condescending attitude toward grad students, especially because it seemed to based so much on stereotype and less on reality. I agree with Danielle and the other commentators on the program that grad students are in many cases not only better teachers but undervalued in general. Having been a grad student myself for three years, I know firsthand that in many cases grad students are more enthusiastic about their material, better organized, and more in touch with reality than some tenured dinosaurs. Considering also the sacrifices grad students must make (i.e. opportunity costs in the job market, low income plus high levels of student loans, etc.) to train in a field such as sociology with its grim job prospects (recall Dr. Hale's appearance on the earlier NPR program about careers in science), I think grad students are vulnerable enough without Anderson's slander making things harder for us. I really think grad students are an undervalued asset and that people should stop giving us a hard time and express some appreciation for our dedication. From kwehr@ssc.wisc.edu Mon May 19 10:25:19 1997 Received: from duncan.ssc.wisc.edu (duncan.ssc.wisc.edu [144.92.190.57]) by csf.Colorado.EDU (8.7.6/8.7.3/CNS-4.0p) with SMTP id KAA17669 for ; Mon, 19 May 1997 10:25:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from guy.ssc.wisc.edu by duncan.ssc.wisc.edu; (5.65v3.2/1.1.8.2/10May96-0433PM) id AA25604; Mon, 19 May 1997 11:25:17 -0500 Received: from localhost by guy.ssc.wisc.edu; (5.65v3.2/1.1.8.2/17May96-0330PM) id AA18913; Mon, 19 May 1997 11:24:42 -0500 Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 11:24:42 -0500 (CDT) From: Kevin Wehr To: Sociology Graduate Students -- International Subject: Re: "Talk of the Nation" program on academic careers today (5/15) In-Reply-To: <970519100107_-1934011199@emout09.mail.aol.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I agree with JHuber, et al regarding this issue of grad students teaching. I for one have seen TA's and Grad student instructors who were a damned sight more enthusiastic than prof.'s about getting up in front of a class several times a week, getting questions in office hours, etc etc. But I think we need to recall that yes, it certainly has to do with the political economy of the academy, but also the focus that the department has. Her at wisconsin I have seen a few grad instructors go through three or four semesters of teaching wihtout any oversight: no sit-ins by the responsible prof., no final evaluation...only the routine student evals to go on. Inexcusable if you ask me. The point is not just to do research. The point is also to teach...at least it is for some of us!! As far as the exploitation thing goes, I would urge all of you to get involved with your teaching assistant association. The TAA can be a powerful organization if enough people are involved. We are in the middle of an action here right now, and let me tell you, the more people we have out there the better...the nation and world over. So get organized to fight exploitation! --Kevin Kevin Wehr kwehr@ssc.wisc.edu 608.256.8961 From TR.Young@uvm.edu Mon May 19 11:39:13 1997 Received: from smtpgate.uvm.edu (smtpgate.uvm.edu [132.198.101.121]) by csf.Colorado.EDU (8.7.6/8.7.3/CNS-4.0p) with SMTP id LAA24993 for ; Mon, 19 May 1997 11:39:06 -0600 (MDT) Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 11:39:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 8N9J6 (208.18.225.41) by smtpgate.uvm.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1a) with SMTP id <0.02417610@smtpgate.uvm.edu>; Mon, 19 May 1997 13:39:00 -0400 Message-Id: <1.5.4.16.19970519133842.0dff10d0@pop.uvm.edu> X-Sender: tryoung@pop.uvm.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: socgrad@csf.colorado.edu From: TR Young Subject: Teaching Criminology Cc: TEACHSOC@maple.lemoyne.edu Organized Crime: Part III of a Series especially written for graduate students in sociology by TRYoung, Director, the Red Feather Institute for Advanced Studies in Sociology. A. Definition: Organized Crime may be defined as the production and distribution of sacred supplies for profane use. While organized criminal companies commit murder, assault, theft, arson, as well as hi-jacking, the central activity of organized crime is the business of selling drugs, sex, usury, gambling and pornography. B. Theory: One needs Marx, Weber, Durkheim and a lot of anthropology to understand the complexities of organized crime. Simplistic theories such as Sutherland, Merton, Hirschi, Lemert, Cohen and the usual theoretical suspects are not very helpful in that they tend to assume the political economy of organized crime; in that they tend to assume the sanctity of the goods and services delivered; in that they tend to assume the alienated sexuality and monochromatic versions of social life embedded in the protestant ethic. C. Durkheim is central to an understanding of organized crime. The very raison d'etre for organized crime is that the supplies they produce and distribute have been, for centuries and for millenia past, used in those dramas of the holy which call forth mechanical solidarity among men and women...mostly men. 1. Psychogens: for most of human history, psychogens have been used as pathways to the holy. Their use for private, non-solidarity purpose has been and is being defined as sinful, corrupt, evil, criminal and pathological...depending on whether it is priests, politicians or physicians doing the defining. 2. Corruption: there are several rules involved in definitions of corruption/crime/pathology which give organized crime a virtual monopoly on the highly profitable production and distribution of these otherwise sacred supplies. a. solidarity supplies are used in and only in those dramas of the holy in which the sacred is approached. Use by those who would otherwise be eligible in non-social/sacred times is defined as perversion/pathology. b. solidarity supplies are forbidden to non-persons: usually children, women, strangers and others with low/marginal standing in the sociology at hand. c. solidarity supplies used by other cultures to connect to other divinities are forbidden; their use is also defined as corrupt/criminal. Most Christians use alcohol as the primary pathway to the holy; use of it outside depends not so much on quantity or incapacitation but upon the degree to which is threatens social solidarity activities. Since the time of Colubus, tobacco has been assimilated as a male solidarity supply...one of the few which Christians have added to their own inventory. Islamic cultures define the use of alcohol as evil/corrupt/criminal. The pathway to the holy in Islam is, primarily prayer, meditation chanting and other physical activity which bring about 'natural' physiological changes which as with external psychogens, alter body states and thus, may be defined as proof demonstrative of the holy spirit...or as Durkheim put it, presence of the superorganic. We define hashhish, coca derivatives, opium derivatives as well and marijuana, peyote and other psychogens as addictive drugs and ` proscribe their use even though alcohol and tobacco are more addictive and may be more harmful to physiology than these. D. The Political Economy of Organized Crime. Organized crime groups depend upon the sanctity of several solidarity supplies for its monopoly and its profit margins. The Protestant State acts in direct opposition to the capitalist state in this regard. The logic of capitalism is to commodify all, as Marx put it, all that is holy...but in their protestant incarnation, legislators define the non-social use; the non-person use; the non-cultural use of sacred supplies as criminal. Corporate liberals want to decriminalize all solidarity supplies and let a much freer market work to eliminate the worse negativities of organized crime monopolies. The case is that the state could tax; the state could regulate purity; the state could replace organized crime and extract surplus value with which to manage its fiscal problems. Organized crime depends upon the Protestant ethic more than the Spirit of capitalism if Weber will forgive me. a. Major Solidarity Supplies: The five solidarity supplies we Christian societies use and which we Christians qua christians want regulated to protect our own patriarchal dramas of the holy: 1. Gambling. For most of human history, the throwing of stones and bones was used as a way to 'read' the will of god/gods. When we are in touch with the gods, the bones/stones/sticks fall in such a way that we win. Those who lose are, presumably, dis-favored of the gods. 2. Smoking. Any number of plants carry enough natural toxins to alter body states and create altered consciousness. While smoking is traditional, injecting, ingesting, sniffing and absorbing such toxins can alter body/mind states. In the drama of the holy, one has visions which, after Durkheim, are defined as messages from the gods in answer to the central questions of being: a) who am I b) what shall I/we do about exigencies of life death, disaster, famine, drought and pestilence. c) where do we come from...and d) what is our destiny. Now, modern science answers such questions and market liberals feel that the private use of such sacred supplies 3) Drinking. Alcohol/wine/spirits. These are also toxins derived from plants altered a bit by bacteria to produce the necessary extra-ordinary body/mind states. 4) Sex/sensuality. Sexual activity has been used as a solidarity suppy to sanctify several social forms: marriage, male solidarities, communal, and sometimes, congregations. in the USA, males use food, sex, alcohol, violence and gambling in varying combination to solve solidarity problems...odd that police solidarities do so as much as those not charged with enforcing protestant values. 5) Violence alters body states and, among workers, students, soldiers, and small boys, is used as a solidarity supply. Football began as sport among workers otherwise competing with each other for jobs, sexual access to scarce females, status and attention. Today, large universities use football to create solidarity with which to cope with the alienation of massified education. 6). Other. Eating, dancing, breathing, singing, chanting, jumping out of airplanes, skiing running, bungeing, and a thousand variations alter body states; produce testosterone, adrenalin and other natrual endorphins can create that sense of the 'other-world' which so many of us take to be proof of the super-natural. E. The Religiousity of Organized Crime. What bothers most of us about organized crime is that it shatters the process by which we sanctify each to the other...is that it profanes that which we have been socialized to view as sacrament to those dramas of the holy in which we invest so much as both persons and as societies. A Durkheimian sociology of religion does not assume the facticity of supernatural world...but it does assume the facticity of the social process called, in pre-modern sensibilities, sanctification. In brief, those of us who wish to reserve the possibility to sanctify peoples, places and processes take the view, erroneous, that profanation of the particular ways we create solidarity cum religiousity are essential to religion. That is, in postmodern religious sensibility, not the case. It is entirely possible to 'be/being' religious without claiming corruptions about this that or the other supply used in social solidarity. Nor does organic solidarity suffice to the purpose. Psychological states are essential to authentic religiousity pre-, post- or modern understandings alike. We need to believe, to trust, to hope, to love, to be compassionate and to be able to transcend our own private needs and worlds. A postmodern social philosophy would be able to make those distinctions and define as crime and corruption all that degrades and debases; not just the privatized use of psychogens to escape a painful world. F. Finally, I want to focus on Weber and his great insights; and translate then to a theory of organized crime in more explicit ways than might he wish. 1. Most of the time, when we think of Weber and the Protestant ethic, we think of how he connected it to capitalism...and in particular, upon the accumulation of wealth. And that is a most valuable in- sight not to be lost in the following discussion. 2. Were we less protestant; less oriented to wealth and power, we might well focus upon the frugality and discipline which Weber says is the social psychology fostered by Protestantism. And, were we to transmute that to questions of the color of life; the sheer joy and great zest for life that is suppressed in this most bleak religious sensibility, we might find understanding of why the demand for sex, drugs, violence/risk, gambling and other sacred supplies continues and indeed is magnified by those whose must, perforce, live out their lives in the underclass; or those who must perforce, live out their lives in a sexually repressive work, school, church, and politics. 3. Given the capacity of psychogens...whether we learn to define their effects as ecstasy or whether they provide natural highs as do running, violence/risk and perhaps some street drugs...given those capacities to produce highs in a racist, class-ravaged, repressive sexual social life world, recourse to alcohol, heroin gang violence and other putatively sacred supplies makes sense. Protestantism in its more puritanical formulations, provides the grounds for escape to a more exhilerating spirit world...even though we must return; even though we must suffer the physical/ physiological consequence of our efforts to transform the ugli- ness of social life into the false richness of purely private divinities. [I want to say that I've never used drugs...nor do I want to be understood or used to justify such use. I get enough natural highs from work, teaching and the love of friends to suffice. Please look at these passages as anthropological explanations rather than self-serving apologies. My own view is that one should never put anything in one's body which does long term harm. It is just that I can understand why, in the absence of a multi-colored social life world, one would be reduced to the pale horses provided by organized crime] CONCLUSION: Organized crime now has a virtual monopoly over the production and distribution of psychogens which brighten and redeem the bitter imperfections of life for some of us. Many market liberals want to de-criminalize those sacred supplies and allow customers to buy whatever they demand; and look aside from the efforts of marketeers to use dramaturgy to expand desire and demand. Many social liberals agree but want to replace the monopolies of organized crime with the monopolies of the state...as a way to resolve the fiscal crisis of advanced monopoly capitalism Most crim texts pass the economics, the theologies, the anthropolies of organized crime while they focus upon the micro-sociologies of group dynamics or a safely depoliticized symbolic interactional theory. Most criminologists, especially those in Criminal Justice Programs join with their protestant brethen to push for more control and the infliction of more pain upon a world all ready stripped of too much joie d'vivre. If we want to move toward a low-crime society, we must have social policy which reduces the great negativities of organized crime. Transferring monopolies in gambling, prostitution, drugs and violence to the state or to the market place is, in my opinion, a most narrow solution. Far better, it seems to me, is to work toward a social justice which redeems the imperfections of social life by removing them...rather than profitting from the management and temporary escapes from those negativities. In a word, if we don't like the profanations of organized crime, then we have to think about the re-sanctifications of organized social life. TR Young TR Young Sociology U/Vermont TR.Young@uvm.edu From jcalabro@osf1.gmu.edu Mon May 19 15:31:04 1997 Received: from osf1.gmu.edu (osf1.gmu.edu [129.174.1.13]) by csf.Colorado.EDU (8.7.6/8.7.3/CNS-4.0p) with SMTP id PAA07943 for ; Mon, 19 May 1997 15:31:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from osf1.gmu.edu by osf1.gmu.edu (5.65v4.0/1.1.8.2/07Sep94-1001AM/GMUv3) id AA11762; Mon, 19 May 1997 17:30:48 -0400 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970519153038.007019cc@osf1.gmu.edu> X-Sender: jcalabro@osf1.gmu.edu Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 15:30:38 -0400 To: David Katz From: "Jeanne A.B. Calabro" Subject: Re: Virtual Identities and Communities ...refs ??? -Reply Cc: socgrad@csf.colorado.edu In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >I agree with you that the Internet is a medium in which marginalized >groups can build community--I have found this to be the case in my own >research on Neo-Pagans. However, I am highly skeptical of any claim >that the Internet can be used to overcome inequalities. Let's face it, >outside of Bill Gates' fantasy land, economic class (and associated >educational opportunities) will continue to be >a significant factor in who gets Internet access. I said I was excited about the *potential" that the internet can be used to overcome inequalities "that is, once computers are more readily available to all." Many public libraries and certainly facilities at community colleges and state universities provide internet access to their communities. My son's (very poor) public high school did (of course, he went to school early or left late in order to use the computer facilities). You do not necessarily need to *own* a computer or have it in your home in order to enjoy access. (I have one provided by a grant I work on) Community-based resources may well be an area to focus some attention on. I am not talking from a theoretical base, or fantasyland experience here. I went to a ghetto high school with no college prep track, running out of courses to take early in my junior year. I worked three part-time jobs, one as lab assistant during school hours, to save money for college and certainly didn't have a lot of spare money. But I LIVED in the public library, and when I finished reading the books that interested me there, I discovered interlibrary loan or took the subway to the MIT library or the Beth Israel Hospital library (I networked to get permission). I also took courses at MIT taught by MIT grad students for next-to-nothing, and walked to a nearby school to be tutored by volunteers from Boston College in geometry for which no course existed in my high school. I went to programs put on by the Boston Globe for high school newspaper editors where I got to meet Washington political correspondents, or jazz festival directors and Herbie Mann. I attended free lecture series at the Museum of Science. When I interviewed for college, I found that I was considered "disadvantaged." There are certainly not enough of these resources, and early damage to self-esteem can often blind children to their potential and so make them impervious to the resources that do exist. Rural communities present even greater challenges because of a paucity of public resources in these communities, although sharing among community members who know each other is often greater in such communities. However, I find buying into the stereotypes of stratification and the victimization of have-notism is a problematic total dismissal of the strengths of communities. It seems to be only the privileged that regard lack of privilege as epiphenomenal and deterministically dooming. The internet has a great potential for making knowledge and access more equally available, if and when computers are more readily accessible (whether in the home or the community). >Also, I'm not sure how >forming virtual communities translates into the "cultural authority" that you >speak of. A marginalized group that has a strong sense of community >identity is still marginalized. Cultural authority and political authority are two different things. Cultural authority is the power to define oneself, to claim and define one's own problems, and to characterize oneself, one's goals, one's needs, or, more particularly to define the group or subculture to which one belongs, to claim and define it's problems, to characterize it, it's goals, it's needs, and how it wants to be be addressed and responded to by other groups or the dominant culture, rather than to have the dominant culture project it's own perspective and position and identity (often the reverse negative) into the group or subculture. This can be accomplished on the internet, given access, with the use of one's voice. Cultural authority is claimed when a parent of a child with Down syndrome says "I'm not going to let the school psychologist or my family or my neighbors see my child as a tragedy, because after I got over the initial shock that is not how I feel." Or, "I am not going to let the therapists keep telling me my daughter with Down Syndrome will never be able to read, because she knew the alphabet at age 3 and began to read store sign's to me when she was in kindergarten and she is playing word games on our computer." Cultural authority is gained when therapists and parents are speculating about sexual development of their children with Down Syndrome and someone with Down Syndrome enters the discussion and starts talking about his marriage and how he is raising a normal child he had with his wife, supporting his family as a computer programmer. Or when parents and builders and others are discussing living arrangements for their adult children with Down syndrome, and a person with Down Syndrome sends a very thoughtful, sensitive message about how it feels to only be considered for a group home when they have just gotten an undergraduate degree from college and really want to live independently on their own. It also happens when parents are wringing their hands over the pathetic future earnings of their baby with Down Syndrome in a sheltered workshop, and a girl with Down Syndrome reports that she is active in the disability rights movement at the law school she is attending. Marginalized people who are labeled as incompetent to speak for themselves in society at large, and so are never asked what they think or feel, or desire or need, can gain voice via the internet, and their input is encountered by others who would never come across it in normal everyday discourse. Politicians are asked about the needs of their constituents, deans are asked about the needs of the faculty, school boards are asked about the needs of teachers and students, doctors are asked about the needs of patients, administrators are asked about what the insured want and need, social workers are asked about the needs and behavior of people who are poor, single mothers, or pregnant teens, and so on. I have encountered someone from all of these groups, and I mean all. on the internet. I have heard perspectives I had never heard elsewhere. Especially I have heard people speaking for themselves to a wide audience who may never have been heard before outside their own intimate circle. Patients often complain about the imputed attitudes of doctors, and I have heard doctors state their own feelings and attitudes directly. The internet or virtual reality is a much more open forum for participants. And yes, the groups may still be marginalized, but their members are not shy about rejecting the authority of others to name them, and talk about their needs and motivations, and desires, and so on, and to claim the cultural authority to speak for themselves, and to do it very effectively and competently. Political authority is another thing, but perhaps the ability of powerful actors to "represent" marginalized groups will erode as these groups find a forum to speak for themselves. Again, political authority is something else, but certainly, not just perhaps, the ability of powerful actors to speak for marginalized groups erodes as these groups find a forum to speak for themselves, and so members of these marginaluzed groups lay claim to cultural authority. Jeanne Calabro > >David Katz >Graduate Student >Loyola University Chicago > >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------ >>>> "Jeanne A.B. Calabro" 05/13/97 12:22am >>>>A lot of people worry about the current self-selection of membership >in these communities, because there is a threshold of skills and >education and economics in order to have the means to access the >internet. After my research, however, I am really excited about the >potential for the internet to overcome many of the inequalities >experienced by marginal populations in terms of having voice, cultural >authority, and access, that is, once computers are more readily available >to all. > > _____________________________________________________________________________ Jeanne A.B. Calabro Home Phone: 703/450-5460 104 Norwood Place E-mail: jcalabro@osf1.gmu.edu Sterling, Virginia 20164-8503 Affiliation: Brandeis University ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Sociology changes the world." Personal opinion _____________________________________________________________________________ From jcalabro@osf1.gmu.edu Mon May 19 15:31:09 1997 Received: from osf1.gmu.edu (osf1.gmu.edu [129.174.1.13]) by csf.Colorado.EDU (8.7.6/8.7.3/CNS-4.0p) with SMTP id PAA07969 for ; Mon, 19 May 1997 15:31:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from osf1.gmu.edu by osf1.gmu.edu (5.65v4.0/1.1.8.2/07Sep94-1001AM/GMUv3) id AA26460; Mon, 19 May 1997 17:30:56 -0400 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970519174214.007019cc@osf1.gmu.edu> X-Sender: jcalabro@osf1.gmu.edu Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 17:42:14 -0400 To: socgrad@csf.colorado.edu From: "Jeanne A.B. Calabro" Subject: Re: virtual communities -- a skeptical note Cc: daniel.ryan@yale.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 08:58 PM 5/14/97 -0400, DJR wrote: > In other words, we project our >problems and our solutions (and even more so when we are purveyors of >the solutions) onto others rather than trying to understand the actual >situation of others. I agree that this sometimes happens. > >Think about it: where in the hierarchy of >problems facing a poor family would you find the ones for which email is >a good solution? I and my son have used the internet to access an encyclopedia. We can't afford to own an encyclopedia, and our library does not have a *current* set because of budgetary constraints. He had a very poor chemistry teacher, but he could access the science magnet school by e-mail and ask his question, or any of a number of listservs used by chemists. Ability to access information that is unavailable in one's physical community is one important benefit of the internet. However, when I mentioned *potential* equality of access, and its *potential* elimination of many barriers, I was not speaking of poverty, which is mistakenly believed to be the predominant or ONLY basis of inequality (with gender or racial or even age inequality sometimes also recognized, but there are of course no necessity for race or gender or age to be part of virtual identities unless desired). I was speaking of disabilities, which are far more predictive of discrimination in employment and access, among those who can demonstrate an ability to do the job. For people with speech impairments, due to cerebral palsy, throat cancer, or MS or for other reasons, or for people who are deaf, they may not be able to communicate with others without a sign language interpretor at all. For these people, the internet affords easy access to communication that is otherwise impossible. In many communities, grocery orders can be faxed in and delivered to homebound people or people with immune deficiency. Attendance at meetings via the web can be used to accommodate people who cannot otherwise attend for a variety of reasons: mobility impairments, inability to express themselves except electronically, parents with small children and inability to afford childcare, or an unavailable or sick babysitter, a temporary or chronic illness and so on. Actually, I don't know how it is in New Haven, but it is so violent in DC, and the ghetto neighborhood I grew up in Boston (Dorchester), that to show your face was to risk death, especially if you were a good student. No-one suspected that my son stayed after school to access the internet on the computer, because he could just as easily have been serving detention. He was able to explore a whole world without actually being able to go anywhere. I am legally blind half the time, but I can "read" journals by scanning them in and having the computer read them to me. The same goes for e-mail. When I teach, I have my students send their questions to me by e-mail. Then I can answer them and distribute my answers if appropriate, to all the students in the class at once, many of whom probably had the same question, or perhaps misunderstood the assignment totally and did not even realize they needed the question answered. I have them submit papers on disk. I have screen magnification software and I can then easily grade them and annotate my comments or corrections at the same time. If the roads are iced and snowed over (the university never closes!), they know they can send assignments due by e-mail. Not all limitations are physical disabilities! Students with cognitive disabilities or learning disabilities can often compensate by use of a computer, and there are even programs specifically designed to develop targetted areas of the brain to help correct these disabilities. Frankly many with visual or other impairments would not be able to work without a computer. I know a man who became a quadriplegic due to an automobile accident, who was able to continue his job by telecommuting from home with his computer. I would not be able to teach college without my computer. There are many more needs searching for solutions than you realize! And many more inequalities than poverty! And there are many people with rare diseases, who can't even find a doctor who can explain what a diagnosis is or what it means, or whether a treatment exists, but they can perhaps connect with NORD's (National Organization of Rare Diseases) database, and locate a researcher doing a study on that disease or with knowledge or expertise in it. Or they can perhaps link up with other people with a similar diagnosis and perhaps find a simple treatment that works, or something that helps them live with their situation. At the very least, they will find someone who can validate their experience. This is how experiential knowledge emerges. Experiential knowledge does not exist as long as people only understand their experiences to be idiosyncratic and anecdotal. But experiential knowledge develops by people with similar experiences coming to see those experiences as being shared by others in a similar situation, and as bearing knowledge important to understand a shared condition. Experiential knowledge can develop from listservs devoted to common themes, i.e., via the internet. Experiential knowledge also empowers. That is the point. Inequalities of all kinds equate to inequality of power and unequal access to the knowledge required to gain power, to gain employment and to gain economic stability. Parents of children with disabilities are all the time sharing things that work to get the educational resources their child needs. If computer access were more readily available poor parents of children with disabilities would be able to gain the same knowledge. The day will (hopefully) come when poor people can get their food stamps printed out by the computer at the public library down the block, rather than having to pay bus fare or walk miles to line up for hours at the welfare office across town, or maybe where they will have an ID card to swipe at the console at the grocery store rather than have physical food stamps at all. The day will perhaps come where a single mother will be loaned a computer to study from home rather than being unable to access an education or have to find childcare of wait for years on a waiting list for an ESL program, or a GED program at the high school across town, or give up on a chance for a college education as training programs become limited to six months prior to job placement. I am however not sure that a lot of focus in the area of computer development and programming is being placed on addressing these needs at present, but perhaps as people with needs gain understanding of the potential, they will start thinking about the possibilities. Your point about computers being a solution in search of a problem overlooks the problems experienced by people without physical access at present. However, it is a point well-taken in reference to our society at large. Other than those with disabilities, does computer access accomplish anything that could not be accomplished by other means, albeit more slowly? I think it does but only for a few things, not the many that the computer has become popular for, but by having a computerized society, or one that communicates and accomplishes other tasks by computer, more complete integration of those with disabilities becomes possible, since those with disabilities may only be able to perform many, even basic, functions with computers, whereas others who could do some or maybe most of these functions without computers (thus segregating or making conspicious or isolated those with disabilities) use computers for these functions because it is easier, faster, more fun, more popular, or they just prefer, to do so. It is obvious that you use a computer, and use e-mail. If you didn't like to do so, didn't want to do so, or found no purpose or benefit in doing so, it is fair to presume that you would not do so. If you are doing so under duress, because you are "required" to do so, then it is fair to assume that if you could succeed in this world without using the computer or e-mail that you would. Would it not be arrogant to assume that those "less fortunate" than you, are less likely to like using a computer, or to benefit or find purpose in using a computer? Isn''t it unrealistic to assume that, if you need to use the computer to succeed in this world that others "less fortunate" can succeed without it? Or should? Are you assuming that they don't want to succeed in the same way you want to? When talking about inequality it is important to not incorporate the problematic distinctions into the sociological response. There is not really much difference between the poor and the nonpoor, or those with disabilities and others in society, all of which are subject to some kind of limitation. As those with virtual identities meet in electronic communities, differences in economics, appearance, gender, age, race, physical ability and so on are not apparent, and do not factor in unless they are asserted. People with common interests, or aspirations will exchange e-mail and share opinions, who would not even shake hands or even meet in the real world. Just a little food for thought. Jeanne Calabro _____________________________________________________________________________ Jeanne A.B. Calabro Home Phone: 703/450-5460 104 Norwood Place E-mail: jcalabro@osf1.gmu.edu Sterling, Virginia 20164-8503 Affiliation: Brandeis University ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Sociology changes the world." Personal opinion _____________________________________________________________________________ From MITRA@VM.TEMPLE.EDU Mon May 19 20:04:05 1997 Received: from VM.TEMPLE.EDU (vm.temple.edu [155.247.14.2]) by csf.Colorado.EDU (8.7.6/8.7.3/CNS-4.0p) with SMTP id UAA20341 for ; Mon, 19 May 1997 20:04:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from VM.TEMPLE.EDU by VM.TEMPLE.EDU (IBM VM SMTP V2R3) with BSMTP id 0549; Mon, 19 May 97 22:04:00 EDT Received: from VM.TEMPLE.EDU (NJE origin MITRA@TEMPLEVM) by VM.TEMPLE.EDU (LMail V1.2b/1.8b) with BSMTP id 1841; Mon, 19 May 1997 22:04:01 -0400 Date: Mon, 19 May 97 22:03:09 EDT From: diditi Subject: Re: Ethnomethodology To: socgrad@CSF.COLORADO.EDU In-Reply-To: Message of Tue, 13 May 97 17:03:22 EDT from Message-Id: <970519.220400.EDT.MITRA@VM.TEMPLE.EDU> a friend of mine is interested in subscribing. i forget the address to which the subscription message needs to be sent. any help will be appreciated. thanks, diditi From daniel.ryan@yale.edu Mon May 19 20:31:04 1997 Received: from mail-relay2.its.yale.edu (mail-relay2.its.yale.edu [130.132.21.73]) by csf.Colorado.EDU (8.7.6/8.7.3/CNS-4.0p) with ESMTP id UAA21614 for ; Mon, 19 May 1997 20:31:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from aeternitas.cis.yale.edu (root@aeternitas.cis.yale.edu [130.132.143.31]) by mail-relay2.its.yale.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA15208 for ; Mon, 19 May 1997 22:30:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from hud03.som.yale.edu (hud03.som.yale.edu [130.132.152.116]) by aeternitas.cis.yale.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id WAA20287 for ; Mon, 19 May 1997 22:30:27 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <33810CCC.7D87@yale.edu> Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 22:30:37 -0400 From: DJR Reply-To: daniel.ryan@yale.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 To: socgrad@csf.colorado.edu Subject: Followup: virtual communities -- a skeptical note References: <3.0.1.32.19970519174214.007019cc@osf1.gmu.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks to Jeanne for her thoughtful response, especially the concrete examples. I agree with almost all the points she raises with regard to particular utilities of new electronic media, especially her point about considering forms of inequality other than economic. My purpose was not simply to be a skeptic, but to suggest a rule of thumb for thinking about this stuff so as not to be taken in by our own enthusiasm. For the record, I'm a big fan of the stuff and my current work involves, among other things, using technology as a tool in community development. I stand by my "skeptical point," though: be sure we can identify and understand real problems and see how the technology is actually the appropriate tool. Jeanne has done pretty much that with several of her examples. My original point was that I believe caution is often in order. Many technologies have arrived with the potential to "overcome inequalities" (and the folks who stand to make millions off of them are often the ones most enthusiastically pointing this out) -- e.g., moveable type printing, automobile, television, birth control pill, plumbing -- and many of these have made a tremendous difference. The distinction I'm (still) trying to think through, though, is between looking at how the technology can be used as a TOOL to solve real problems and counter inequalities, rather than as a mere treatment for symptoms of inequality. An example: many people want to wire City Hall and put terminals "in the neighborhoods" so that citizens will have a more direct voice with which to speak to the mayor. This suggests that the "energy barrier" for using telephone or writing a note is higher than sending email. Maybe so, may not, but the real communication problem here is not speaking to the mayor, it is speaking to fellow citizens so that you can know that you all have something similar to speak to the mayor about. Setting up a mechanism for doing that that really lowers the "cost" of listening to one another's fellow citizens WOULD be using the technology to address a real problem and it has radical potential. Guess which one City Hall, public utilities and local corporations are touting. -- Dan Ryan Yale University Insitution for Social and Policy Studies P.O. Box 208209 New Haven, CT 06520-8209 daniel.ryan@yale.edu New Haven On Line http://statlab.stat.yale.edu/nhol From cassell@frosty.irss.unc.edu Tue May 20 05:31:50 1997 Received: from frosty.irss.unc.edu (frosty.irss.unc.edu [152.2.32.82]) by csf.Colorado.EDU (8.7.6/8.7.3/CNS-4.0p) with SMTP id FAA13257 for ; Tue, 20 May 1997 05:31:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from cassell@localhost) by frosty.irss.unc.edu (8.6.12/8.6.10) id HAA06049; Tue, 20 May 1997 07:30:44 -0400 Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 07:30:44 -0400 (EDT) From: Jim Cassell To: Sociology Graduate Student Discussion Subject: Updated Position Announcement (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII FYI - Jim ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ James Cassell Institute for Research in Social Science e-mail: cassell@irss.unc.edu University of North Carolina Ph: 919/962-0782 Fx: 919/962-4777 Chapel Hill, NC 27599-3355 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 14:02:49 -0700 From: Fred Solop To: aapornet@usc.edu, por@unc.edu, PSRT-L@h-net.msu.edu, field-dir@majordomo.ucs.indiana.edu Subject: Updated Position Announcement I posted a Post-doctoral fellowship position last week. In the interim, the position has been reclassified as Visiting Instructor/Assistant Professor (see below). Please excuse any inconvenience caused by reposting this position. Fred Solop Northern Arizona University ============================================================================ ===== POSITION AVAILABLE Northern Arizona University: The College of Social and Behavioral Science seeks qualified candidates for an 11 month position at the level of Visiting Instructor/Assistant Professor. This is a benefit eligible, temporary, non tenure-track position. Responsibilities include managing applied research projects (telephone surveys, mail surveys, focus groups) for the Social Research Laboratory, providing methodological and statistical assistance to the Social Research Laboratory, and teaching four courses per year for the College of Social and Behavioral Sciences in the areas of research methods and introductory-level statistics. Minimum qualifications include (1) a Ph.D. degree in any social science discipline or completion of all course-work toward a Ph.D. degree in any social science discipline, (2) substantial experience in a social science research organization, preferably an academic survey research organization, and (3) university-level teaching experience. Please send a letter of interest describing your qualifications, a vita and the names and telephone numbers of three professional references to Dr. Fred Solop, Social Research Laboratory, Box 15301, Northern Arizona University, Flagstaff, AZ 86011. A review of applications will begin on June 15, 1997 and will continue until the position is filled. Northern Arizona University is a committed Equal Opportunity/Affirmative Action institution. Minorities, women, persons with disabilities, and veterans are especially encouraged to apply. From amullen@pantheon.yale.edu Tue May 20 09:46:41 1997 Received: from mail-relay1.cis.yale.edu (mail-relay1.cis.yale.edu [130.132.21.199]) by csf.Colorado.EDU (8.7.6/8.7.3/CNS-4.0p) with ESMTP id JAA27122 for ; Tue, 20 May 1997 09:46:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from morpheus.cis.yale.edu (amullen@morpheus.cis.yale.edu [130.132.143.248]) by mail-relay1.cis.yale.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA18251 for ; Tue, 20 May 1997 11:46:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (amullen@localhost) by morpheus.cis.yale.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id LAA26623 for ; Tue, 20 May 1997 11:46:30 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 11:46:29 -0400 (EDT) From: "Ann L. Mullen" X-Sender: amullen@morpheus.cis.yale.edu To: Sociology Graduate Students -- International Subject: RE: Negotiation tips for Women on the job market In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Hi - A friend of mine mentioned to me a website which helps prepare women for negotiating academic positions. He found it from a posting on this list and I'm wondering whether anyone could direct me to it. Thanks very much in advance - Ann From TR.Young@uvm.edu Tue May 20 10:40:31 1997 Received: from smtpgate.uvm.edu (smtpgate.uvm.edu [132.198.101.121]) by csf.Colorado.EDU (8.7.6/8.7.3/CNS-4.0p) with SMTP id KAA02059 for ; Tue, 20 May 1997 10:40:28 -0600 (MDT) Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 10:40:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 8N9J6 (208.18.225.23) by smtpgate.uvm.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1a) with SMTP id <0.F9C00F80@smtpgate.uvm.edu>; Tue, 20 May 1997 12:40:19 -0400 Message-Id: <1.5.4.16.19970520124000.0e2f10d0@pop.uvm.edu> X-Sender: tryoung@pop.uvm.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: socgrad@csf.colorado.edu From: TR Young Subject: Teaching Criminology: Part IV. White Collar Crime Cc: TEACHSOC@maple.lemoyne.edu Part IV: White Collar Crime. WCC is often conflated, in texts and in law, with corporate crime...yet the sociology is very different as are the forms of crime involved. Then too, WCC is one form of human behavior which resists easy theorizing and broad generalizing. Efforts to generate formal, axiomatic, predictive theory fail here as much or more than with other forms of crime. Yet there are some commonalities within the genre which help sort out those differences and, thus, provide some leverage for those interested in equitable reciprocities as well as in social policy oriented to low crime relationships. A. Definition. White collar crime is that crime which involves a betrayal of trust implied in the holding of an office or other position of trus. 1. Street crime; burglary, robbery, theft, arson and other forcible forms of economic gain do not involve existing relationships between persons requiring trust, faith, hope and patience. Those victimized by street thugs do not suspend doubt nor are they betrayed by trusting...other than the civil inattention required in public places which Goffman discussed so well, social relation- ship and all the vulnerability such imply does not exist in the forms of street crime mentioned in Part II. Customers of organized crime suspend doubt and suspicion of exploitation and falsification as they enter into contractual relationships with drug pushers, prostitutes, lenders or other providers of forbidden goods and services discussed in Part III. 2. Doctors, lawyers, employees, public officials, teachers, brokers and buyers do enjoy unsuspended trust. Patients, clients, employers, citizens and students have to trust providers of services and goods else most formal organizations would collapse from the want. While the logic of a completely free market of goods and services warns the buyer to beware, such advice ignores the armor of social honor and the fabric of social innocence essential to social relationship. 3. Doctors, lawyers, middle and top management as well as brokers and public officials on the take steal or convert to their own use, many times as much wealth as do street thugs. And, as we shall see, corporate crime makes beggers of both. B. Forms of white collar crime. Again, simple and encompassing categories do not suffice to inventory the range of white collar crime. Every day, new defaults of trust and new violations of belief are invented with which to exploit the organic solidarity essential to a division of labor in a complex, high-tech society. But we can do an inventory of forms with which to sensitize the student and the public of American Criminology: 1. Health Care: Doctors take kick-backs on the prescriptions they write; doctors prescribe questionable and expen- sive surgical routines, doctors refer patients to a circle of friends not on the basis of merit but on the basis of mutual gain. Physicians, psychologists, psychiatrists and hospital administrators over-bill both patient and third-party carriers of health insurance. They bill for services not provided and for patients not existing. They bill for invented clinical entities and they bill for inflated regimes of therapy. 2. Law and the Court. Police sell out the trust implicit in their office by taking bribes from organized crime. Police subvert the idea of law and order as they over-police minorities and under-police the middle class. Lawyers enter into pricing conspiricies to charge for services; they bill for hours not given to a client; they convert funds belonging to a trust to their own use or invest such funds for favors granted by the banking/investment firms with which they deal. Judges seek sexual, economic or career advantage in dealing with the public and the trust placed in the office they hold. Judges reproduce the structures of racist, gender and class inequality in the kinds of evidence they hear, the kinds of motions they honor the kinds of judgements they make and the kind of sentences they hand out. In the CJS, the tort system, the military justice system, the private justice system as well as the administrative regulatory system, class, status and power distort the quest for criminal justice as for social justice. Law-makers too violate the public trust. They take bribes from those with wealth; they take gifts from those with high status; they permit corporations to write public policy on auto insurance, rental law, pollution law and liability law. 3. Employees steal more from the stores and shops in which they hold position of trust than do all the theives, shop-lifters, boosters and false billing con schemes put together. And the greater the position of trust, the greater the magnitude of the theft. C. Motives for White Collar Crime. The student will note that I used the term, motive, rather than cause. Causal analysis is useful in discussing the behavior of simple systems but not of complex, open systems...more about which in the last of the series. a. Life style. Much in the way of white collar crime can be attributed to efforts of white collar criminals to attain and maintain a middle class life style. Homes can cost hundreds of thousands of dollars. Sending children to college requires tens of thousands of dollars. Equipping a home with furnishings, art, electronics and other appliances can be very costly. Middle class families buy and maintain two, three four or more automobiles. Middle class families buy and maintain two or three domiciles. Middle class families take vacations in Europe, Australia, South Pacific and Africa. Transportation, lodging, food and amenities can run into tens of thousands of dollars. b. Life crisis. Even middle class families face life crises; divorce is very costly...especially to the women in the family. Legal services for other exigencies eat up family reserves. Engineers, professors, doctors, and lawyers can find themselves dis-employed as the economy shrinks or as the fiscal crisis of the state expands into the middle classes. c. Retirement Portfolios. Social security may pay a doctor, lawyer, professor or engineer $800/month...$1000/month or even $1200 month. That would cover the cost of transport, food, mortgage, or vacation but not all of these. Around age 40-45, middle class professionals can see the future and see that it will reduce their circum- stances to those of the lower middle class...so they begin to think about how they might expand their investment portfolios. Doctors can always prescribe hysterectomies or tonsilectomies; Lawyers can always overbill; professors can take on consultancies and thus default on teaching. Administrators can form REITs to buy and sell land they know their university their corporation, their state agency will soon acquire. They can take bribes for letting contracts. They can divert public and corporate funds to private companies. Investment Schemes....doctors, lawyers, brokers and other not excluding professors get involved in risky investment schemes...and sometime must come up with large sums in order to cover/protect investment. d. Existential Anger. As Weber put it, bureaucracies are iron cages into which clients and staff alike are trapped. Once in that trap, an employee suffers all sorts of humiliations. Arrogant bosses; blatant discrimination--usually upon behalf of favored status person--usually white well educated males; unacknow- ledged work, unkind comment, ill-kept temper, unfair evaluations. All these and more alienate the employee and, as with those in the underclass, may produce pre-theoretical rebellion and resistence. Embezzlement, fraud, theft and sale of company secrets all these and more provide some small measure of revenge; some small satisfaction from the thousand slings and arrows found in any bureaucracy from the state prison to the fortune 500. 3. Corporate Modelling. Many major corporations require their employees to lie, cheat, steal and betray customers, competitors, inspectors and other employees. Sears requires employees to bait and switch; Wards requires employees to sell worthless insurance; Penney's buys from sweat shops in Indonesia Mexico, Thailand and Korea. From such model behavior on the part of the company, employees learn. If the company steals from customers; if the company violates pollution laws; if the company converts pension plans to corporate purpose, the moral base is lost and, being lost, renders the company fair game to the dis-enchanted, de-sanctified employee. D. Solutions to White Collar Crime. Policing, punishment, shame and other forms of degradation have but limited reach and duration. Regulatory agencies, civil torts, criminal liability, malpractice suits do not prevent white collar crime...at best they give pause to the deed and craft to the act. Education, social controls, religiousity, as well as other standard solution alleged to reduce street crime fail for white collar crime. We professionals/employees are already well educated; we already live within a well-organized normative structure; we go to church and condemn those who profane our gods and scandalize our religious values. In a postmodern criminology, the solutions to white collar crime follow closely the motives for white collar crime. The student can review those and undertake your informal field assignment: generate social policy in both public and private sector which negates the motives. TRYoung TR Young Sociology U/Vermont TR.Young@uvm.edu From lmiller@weber.ucsd.edu Tue May 20 12:05:18 1997 Received: from weber.ucsd.edu (weber.ucsd.edu [132.239.147.2]) by csf.Colorado.EDU (8.7.6/8.7.3/CNS-4.0p) with ESMTP id MAA04973 for ; Tue, 20 May 1997 12:05:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from lmiller@localhost) by weber.ucsd.edu (8.8.3/8.8.3) id LAA26465 for socgrad@csf.colorado.edu; Tue, 20 May 1997 11:05:15 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 11:05:15 -0700 (PDT) From: Laura Miller Message-Id: <199705201805.LAA26465@weber.ucsd.edu> To: socgrad@csf.colorado.edu Subject: address for getting on/off list ******** Requests to either subscribe or unsubscribe from Socgrad should be sent to: listproc@csf.colorado.edu To subscribe, in the body of the message type: subscribe socgrad Your Name To unsubscribe, just send the message: unsubscribe socgrad From ldoerr@U.Arizona.EDU Wed May 21 11:29:32 1997 Received: from aruba.u.arizona.edu (aruba.U.Arizona.EDU [128.196.137.30]) by csf.Colorado.EDU (8.7.6/8.7.3/CNS-4.0p) with ESMTP id LAA00731 for ; Wed, 21 May 1997 11:29:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (ldoerr@localhost) by aruba.u.arizona.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id KAA77958 for ; Wed, 21 May 1997 10:26:55 -0700 Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 10:26:54 -0700 (MST) From: Laurel Smith-Doerr To: socgrad@csf.colorado.edu Subject: Grad Student Paper Competition Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII For those of you working on a paper in the areas of science, knowledge and technology, here's an opportunity you should know about... >THE HACKER-MULLINS GRADUATE STUDENT AWARD > >SKAT, the ASA section on Science, Knowledge and Technology, invites >nominations for the Hacker-Mullins Award. This award is given to >a graduate student for a published article or unpublished paper >completed in the past twelve months. The awardee will be presented >with the award during the SKAT business meeting at the ASA annual >convention in Toronto in August 1997. The deadline for nominations >is June 1, 1997. The nominated paper must accompany the letter of >nomination, which should be sent to: Stephen Hilgartner, Chair, >SKAT Awards Committee, Department of Science & Technology Studies, >Cornell University, 632 Clark Hall, Ithaca, NY 14853. If you have any other questions about the competition or SKAT, drop me a line (ldoerr@u.arizona.edu). *********************** Laurel Smith-Doerr University of Arizona Department of Sociology Tucson, AZ 85721 520-621-3531 *********************** From umcepane@cc.UManitoba.CA Wed May 21 12:45:34 1997 Received: from electra.cc.umanitoba.ca (electra.cc.umanitoba.ca [130.179.16.23]) by csf.Colorado.EDU (8.7.6/8.7.3/CNS-4.0p) with ESMTP id MAA02929 for ; Wed, 21 May 1997 12:45:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from castor.cc.umanitoba.ca (umcepane@castor.cc.umanitoba.ca [130.179.16.20]) by electra.cc.umanitoba.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA02654 for ; Wed, 21 May 1997 13:45:26 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from umcepane@localhost) by castor.cc.umanitoba.ca (8.8.4/8.8.4) id NAA11483 ; Wed, 21 May 1997 13:45:23 -0500 (CDT) Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 13:45:23 -0500 (CDT) From: umcepane@cc.UManitoba.CA To: socgrad@csf.colorado.edu Subject: New to List Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII As a new member to this list I would like to introduce myself. My name is Diane Cepanec and I am a masters student in Sociology at the University of Manitoba. For my masters thesis I am exploring facial cosmetic surgery among aging women and am drawing upon insights from the sociology of the body in my analysis. If anyone shares similar interests or would like to discuss any issues pertaining to health, aging and the sociology of the body, feel free to e-mail me at any time... Diane Cepanec University of Manitoba From cassell@frosty.irss.unc.edu Thu May 22 05:27:01 1997 Received: from frosty.irss.unc.edu (frosty.irss.unc.edu [152.2.32.82]) by csf.Colorado.EDU (8.7.6/8.7.3/CNS-4.0p) with SMTP id FAA18519 for ; Thu, 22 May 1997 05:26:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from cassell@localhost) by frosty.irss.unc.edu (8.6.12/8.6.10) id HAA23963; Thu, 22 May 1997 07:25:53 -0400 Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 07:25:52 -0400 (EDT) From: Jim Cassell To: Sociology Graduate Student Discussion Subject: job posting/Washington Post (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE FYI - Jim ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~= ~~ James Cassell Institute for Research in Social Scien= ce e-mail: cassell@irss.unc.edu University of North Caroli= na Ph: 919/962-0782 Fx: 919/962-4777 Chapel Hill, NC 27599-33= 55 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~= ~~ ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 19:48:45 -0400 (EDT) From: Rich Morin To: por@frosty.irss.unc.edu Subject: job posting/Washington Post Job Opening: The Washington Post=20 =20 =20 The Washington Post is looking for a smart, experienced survey researcher to work in its two-person newsroom polling unit. The person we=92re looking for would work for Richard Morin, director o= f polling for the newsroom. She or he would help write survey questionnaires, analyze survey data, work with reporters and editors on poll stories, oversee the preparation of survey graphics as well as handle some administrative and clerical tasks related to Post polling projects. This is a full-time position in the newsroom. And while it's=92 not a reporting position, the person who fills this job should be a good writer and will be encouraged to write for the paper on an occasional basis. High energy and a creative intelligence are a must. Applicants should be comfortable working with numbers and working with people. Experience and/or formal academic training in polling is essential; a background in the social sciences (particularly political science, sociology or psychology) would be useful.=20 Applicants also should be computer literate and familiar with one or more of the commonly used statistical software packages such as SPSS or SAS, and have a working knowledge of at least one spreadsheet and word processing program. This is a terrific job at an important newspaper that serves one of the most interesting and livable metropolitan areas in the world.=20 Applicants should send a letter with resume by mail or e-mail to:=20 =20 Richard Morin Director of Polling The Washington Post 1150 15th St. NW Washington, D.C. 20071=20 e-mail address: morinr@clark.net +----------------------------------------------+ | Richard Morin morinr@clark.net | | The Washington Post 202 334-7331 (voice) | | 1150 15th St. NW 496-3544 (fax) | | Washington, D.C. 20071 | +----------------------------------------------+ From koski@prairie.nodak.edu Thu May 22 06:18:14 1997 Received: from prairie.nodak.edu (prairie.nodak.edu [134.129.111.80]) by csf.Colorado.EDU (8.7.6/8.7.3/CNS-4.0p) with ESMTP id GAA19719 for ; Thu, 22 May 1997 06:18:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from koski@localhost) by prairie.nodak.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id HAA10834; Thu, 22 May 1997 07:18:11 -0500 (CDT) Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 07:18:11 -0500 (CDT) From: Michelle A Koski To: socgrad@csf.colorado.edu cc: Sociology Graduate Students -- International Subject: Re: Social Theory In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Greetings from Europe! Just a quick note to say "hello" from cold and rainy England! Am over here at present interviewing for PhD programmes and have fallen in love with the country. Only downfall is the rain -- suppose one gets used to it after a bit, but coming from ND, the only thing that I am used to is snow! Great system for criminology study here and am very excited to begin here. Am attending a symposium this afternoon on sex offenders (large prison in the middle of town) and am really excited about it. Any suggestions on places to see of things to do over here? Will check back later on in the weekend. Cheers! Shelley ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Shelley Koski~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ koski@prairie.NoDak.edu~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "A pocket is no place for a smile anyway" - B. Sheehan, but made famous by J. Popper -Blues Traveler From maxine@waikato.ac.nz Thu May 22 15:40:50 1997 Received: from mailserv.waikato.ac.nz (mailserv.waikato.ac.nz [130.217.66.61]) by csf.Colorado.EDU (8.7.6/8.7.3/CNS-4.0p) with ESMTP id PAA20547 for ; Thu, 22 May 1997 15:40:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from soci14.ijk.waikato.ac.nz (socio14.ijk.waikato.ac.nz [130.217.163.188]) by mailserv.waikato.ac.nz (8.8.4/8.8.0) with SMTP id JAA64258 for ; Fri, 23 May 1997 09:39:25 +1200 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19970522212843.00685cd4@mailserv.waikato.ac.nz> X-Sender: maxine@mailserv.waikato.ac.nz Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 09:28:43 +1200 To: socgrad@csf.colorado.edu From: Maxine Campbell Subject: tim lucas Hi Tim I am a doctoral student at Waikato University in New Zealand and fairly new to this list - or any list. Most postings I receive are general (ie sent to everyone on the list, as this one will be) but some people include a personal email address for individual contact. As we seem to have similar interests, I thought I would send you mine - though I have no objection to anyone else using it. My thesis takes a rights-based approach to family legislation in New Zealand, particularly the potential for conflict between children's rights and parents' rights. My other main interests are law/crime (TR Young has posted some interesting mini lectures in this area on the list - much appreciated), poverty, welfare, hegemony and politics. I'm afraid I can't help you with instructions on the use of HELP, but hopefully some kind soul will enlighten us all. Cheers, Maxine Maxine Campbell University of Waikato Hamilton, N.Z. maxine@waikato.ac.nz *This is my second attempt at posting this as the first - using the reply facility - was unsuccessful. Hopefully directing to the Colorado list will work. From TR.Young@uvm.edu Sun May 25 08:11:19 1997 Received: from smtpgate.uvm.edu (smtpgate.uvm.edu [132.198.101.121]) by csf.Colorado.EDU (8.7.6/8.7.3/CNS-4.0p) with SMTP id IAA17644 for ; Sun, 25 May 1997 08:11:18 -0600 (MDT) Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 08:11:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 8N9J6 (208.18.225.47) by smtpgate.uvm.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1a) with SMTP id <0.FA616600@smtpgate.uvm.edu>; 25 May 1997 10:11:14 -0400 Message-Id: <1.5.4.16.19970525101056.0dff3b44@pop.uvm.edu> X-Sender: tryoung@pop.uvm.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: socgrad@csf.colorado.edu From: TR Young Subject: Teaching Criminology: Part IV: Corporate Crime Cc: TEACHSOC@maple.lemoyne.edu A. Definition: Corporate crime is those actions by corporate management and employees which harm workers, customers, competitors or communities. Unlike white collar or street crime, the direct beneficiaries of corporate crime are not those who engineer the many crimes found in modern corporate life. Employees do benefit indirectly; they keep their jobs, they get promoted, they secure the economic base upon which their livlihood depends. Direct beneficiaries are removed and remote from the actual criminal activity; those of us who own stock, who own annuities based upon stocks; who own mutual funds, the performance of which affects our investment decisions. B. The fluidity and variability of causality can be seen nowhere as readily as in corporate crime. Yet there are three generic and interacting sources of corporate crime which, in all their human genius and well-developed skills, corporate executives pursue: 1. Increase of Profits/decrease in costs 2. Increase in demand/decrease in competition 3. Control of markets, workers, supplies and the governing apparatus...especially in democratic societies. C. In its more pro-social moments, capitalism well serves the human interests in food, shelter, communication, transport, knowledge and recreation. Even at its worse, capitalism provides enough surplus which makes poverty in advanced capitalist societies more tolerable than in slavery, feudalist, and some horticultural political economies. It is this capacity to provide goods and services which make those victimized by corporate crime more tolerant and less critical than radical criminologists might expect. D. Yet there are many factors which drive corporations to crime, especially in democratic societies. In democratic societies, elected officials as well as state functionaries depend upon the electorate to keep their jobs...thus, there remains tension between contra- dictory goals of the capitalist state: 1. Political legitimacy [with workers, customers] 2. Capital acculumulation [for owners] 3. Social Stability [for both workers and owners] E. Forms of Corporate Crime: 1. Crimes against workers: Dangerous working conditions, exploitation of labor power, alienation of social power as well as moral power are among the more generic crimes to be found within corporate life...these vary with strata but even the highest officers lose moral agency in pursuit of corporate goals above. 2. Crimes against customers: price fixing, abandonment of low profit but essential lines of production, dangerous additives/products, default on guarantees, colonization of consciousness via advertizing/subversion of social/ human values--institution of desire for material goods. 3. Crimes against competitors: price wars, industrial espionage, patent/copyright infringement, false rumors/false claims, resource monopolies, super-exploitation of suppliers, as well as hostile take-overs and more. 4. Crimes against the state/governance processes: bribery of legislators/inspectors, evasion of taxes, externalization of costs to the state [education, capital construction, environmental pollution], abandonment of low-profit lines, purchase of the political process, subversion of fiscal monetary, currency laws/policies among others. F. Magnitude of Corporate Crime. The number of deaths engineered by corporations by unsafe working conditions, unsafe products, recourse to military intervention in other countries for markets, raw materials cheap labor and 'favorable' marketting conditions outstrip street crime by orders of magnitude; multiple the number of murders committed by street thugs by 1000 and the magnitude of theft by 10,000 and one get some idea of how well done corporate criminals do their crime. G. Motives for Corporate Crime in Advanced Monopoly Societies. The sources of corporate crime mirror the areas in which corporations had free reign in earlier, pre/semi-democratic political systems. 1. Taxation. As the costs of keeping the underclass docile, more and more taxes are needed. As the costs of maintaining a false peace in other countries increase, taxes for military goods increase. As the state absorbs costs of reproducing labor and capital in high-tech societies, tax burdens increase. At some point, increase in tax rates pass critical values and create problems for capitalist in competing for capital in the stock market and in competing for markets in the global economic system. 2. Environmental Laws. As long as only workers, minorities and the poor are adversely affected by pollution, the democratic state does little to control it...when middle class neigh- borhoods/amenities are affected, legislators respond and, again, profits and investment capital is threatened. The more costs of environment safeguards absorbed by corporations, the more reason to violate such laws. 3. Job Security/fringe benefits. Job security threatens profits since workers with seniority get higher wages and more benefits. The benefits themselves add 30, 50, 70% to the costs of labor. When the state begins to intervene on behalf of workers with legal enactments, corporate executives try to absorb costs; when markets and investment capital markets are threatened, they begin to violate labor law. Minimum wage laws are a particular problem when the economy is globalized; local corporations compete with goods made by workers not protected by those same 'friendly' governments abroad. 4. Anti-monopoly laws. It is a dilemma for the capitalist state; capitalism as a system requires competition; particular firms require market growth and security. As democracy expands to include more and more consumers, law-makers pass laws which restrict monopoly practices. This results in bribery, purchase of the political process, movement of investment overseas and/or secrecy in price fixing. G. Solutions to Corporate Crime. There are many factors to consider when thinking about how to minimize corporate crime. 1. How to retain the more positive features of capitalism: flexibility, innovation, productivity, improvement of knowledge processes, unconcern for ancient structures of privilege and power. 2. How to extend agency to those exluded from the political process by the costs/economics of participation. 3. How to extend benefits to workers, underclass, third-world rather than only/primarily to stock-owners/favored employees. 4. How to control advertizing such that human consciousness remains oriented first of larger human values more so than privatized consumption. 5. How to fit production of essential goods into continuously declining resources. 6. How to insulate the political process from existing inequalites in wealth and power. H. These and more problems await affirmative postmodern criminology as we move into the 21st century. Criminology has made a lot of progress since the days we talked of instincts, body types, physiological/chemical causes of crime...yet there is much, much more to be done. I have a few answers and the beginnings of others...along with Louk Hulsman, Ron Kramer, Dragan Milovanovic, Richard Quinney, Ray Michalowski, The Schwendingers, Tony Platt and a hunderd other radical, feminist, marxist, postmodern criminologists. TR Young The Red Feather Institute 8085 Essex, Weidman, Mi., 48893 [517] 644 3089 From TR.Young@uvm.edu Mon May 26 05:13:24 1997 Received: from smtpgate.uvm.edu (smtpgate.uvm.edu [132.198.101.121]) by csf.Colorado.EDU (8.7.6/8.7.3/CNS-4.0p) with SMTP id FAA29499 for ; Mon, 26 May 1997 05:13:17 -0600 (MDT) Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 05:13:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 8N9J6 (208.18.225.24) by smtpgate.uvm.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1a) with SMTP id <0.47B50550@smtpgate.uvm.edu>; Mon, 26 May 1997 7:13:15 -0400 Message-Id: <1.5.4.16.19970526071257.0d9fa608@pop.uvm.edu> X-Sender: tryoung@pop.uvm.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: spti-list@webcoach.com From: TR Young Subject: address of non-linear sociology web-site Cc: socgrad@csf.colorado.edu >Sender: "Chaos, Complexity, & Related Theories as they relate to Social Science" TR Young The Red Feather Institute 8085 Essex, Weidman, Mi., 48893 [517] 644 3089 From TR.Young@uvm.edu Mon May 26 06:56:03 1997 Received: from smtpgate.uvm.edu (smtpgate.uvm.edu [132.198.101.121]) by csf.Colorado.EDU (8.7.6/8.7.3/CNS-4.0p) with SMTP id GAA02647 for ; Mon, 26 May 1997 06:56:02 -0600 (MDT) Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 06:56:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 8N9J6 (208.18.225.24) by smtpgate.uvm.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1a) with SMTP id <0.9EE90DE0@smtpgate.uvm.edu>; Mon, 26 May 1997 8:55:55 -0400 Message-Id: <1.5.4.16.19970526085536.0def3624@pop.uvm.edu> X-Sender: tryoung@pop.uvm.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: socgrad@csf.colorado.edu From: TR Young Subject: Teaching Criminology: Part VI: Political Crime Cc: TEACHSOC@maple.lemoyne.edu A. Political crime seldom appears in crim texts. Intro texts and social problems texts make mention of genocide but mostly descriptive/exemplary cases are given. In this outline of a postmodern criminology, I would like to define and list the forms of political crime. Most of what appears in this section and prior discourse on postmodern criminology presumes some substantive definition of crime grounded upon a very different social philosophy than is ordinarily the case...I will go on to this more affirmative approach to postmodern sensibility in the next series of lectures...which will appear on the Red Feather Institute Home Page---with but a paragraph abstract posted on socgrad as promised last Fall. B. Definition: Political crime is that use of power to reproduce structures of domination. there are five major structures which inform/fuel most of the political crime in the 21st century; 1. Patriarchy 2. Racism 3. National Chauvinism 4. Class exploitation/alienation 5. Ageism Notice I did not mention inequality as do most radical crimin- ologists. I think that some inequality may well be helpful to the human estate; I accept the notion of necessary repression and as with Marcuse, prefer to speak of surplus repression in the use of power inequalities. IN the final part of this series, I will lay out a philosophy of science/knowledge which I use to ground affirmative postmodern criminology....in it, there is the notion of a bifurcation of key variables which tend to create new magnitudes and new forms of crime. It is the point at which inequality [as one such key variable] bifurcates that we should be looking for rather than inequality per se. C. Forms of power. I use four forms of power with which to sort out political crime: 1. Social power...that power to shape the behavior of others who occupy/share status-roles. Social power is essential to all social life. And power differentials are essential to all socialization and all 'necessary' repression. However, some uses of social power are oriented to surplus repression...to exploitation...to degradation of the human project. When social power is thus used, political crime takes substantive form. 2. Moral power. Even without specific social relationships, we can shape the behavior of unknown others by recourse to moral power. I define moral power as that response to the moral structure to which people are socialized. Usually moral systems have a religious grounding. Even so, given moral systems are, in part, criminal. Patriarchy is a moral system in which women are subordinated and in which men arrogate social power to male domination. Many religions support, in part, criminality. Those which permit believers to exploit other peoples; to repress other religious forms; to gloss racism, sexist preferences, slavery and economic exploitation take on a criminality not well registered in most crim texts/theories. 3. Economic power. Those who control access to real or acquired needs have great power to shape the behavior of others. In our time, economic power is registered in currencies but there are many non-market goods and services which can be used to coerce people to demean and degrade themselves and others. Much of the crime in class inequality comes about through the deployment of wealth in such a way to reproduce structures of domination. I want to make it clear that capitalism, per se, does not fuel economic crime...market systems, investment schemes, economic inequality could be harnessed to larger social purpose than is now the case in the 20th century but one should not confuse between economic inequality per se and the degrading uses of inequality itself. 4. Physical power. I disagree that all power reduces to physical power; indeed, my view is that legitimacy, social peace and domestic tranquility derives more from social justice and egalitarian norms than gun-powder, coercion or battering. Physical power can, indeed, generate short-term compliance and reluctant co-operation but the social process, requiring belief, trust, faith and compassion is hostile to the tenure of coercive systems. Then too, those at the bottom of stratification systems; class, race, gender and ethnic...retain physical power as a last resort to social emancipation. Much street crime can be understood in these terms; middle class and/or dominant groups have social, moral and economic power with which to meet desire and demand. Those in the underclass retain physical power and more often then not, deploy it in pre-theoretic ways...in ways we call street crime. That middle class people don't commit robbery, burglary, mug or rape people does not yield moral superiority when they abuse trust to embezzle, defraud, exploit or coerce. It is true that high-tech systems of power--military power in particular are a problem to the powerless...but even in the most racist, ethno-centric systems, there are people who criticize the deployment/alienation of all forms of power. D. Forms of Political Crime. I usually make distinction between privatized political crime and institutionalized political crime. Rape is an example of the first while warfare exemplar of the second. Personalized Political Crime: Assault, rape, battering, beating, mugging, robbery, extortion, murder and threat of violence generally. Institutional political crime: racism, sexism, religious bigotry; elitist forms of governance, of work, of education and of communications. Elitist forms of art, science, music, drama, dance, cinema, play, poetry and literature generally are political crime when other, different forms of culture are denigrated, discouraged and/or ranked using putatively universal norms and standards. warfare deserves special attention in affirmative postmodern criminology. I identify six waves/forms of warfare which interact and overlap in human history...most devoted to exploitation of wealth and/or imposition of honorific stratifications: 1. Predatory warfare: from the raiding parties of clan and tribe to the periodic excursions into gang warfare, predatory crime reaches across history and bursts out in putatively modern societies. 2. Wars of Feudal Conquest: periodic predation converts into feudal domin- \ ation when some part of a victorious army is left behind to extract feudal taxes and labor. 3. Wars of Commercial Colonialism: Core countries send armies to far away places to guarantee access to land, resources, markets and labor. 4. Wars of Capitalist Rebellion: from the time of Cromwell in 1640 to the German revolution in 1840, capitalists join with peasants to over- throw feudalities. 5. Wars of Colonial Liberation: From the American Revolution to the present, wars against colonial/capitalist core countries have marked the last two hundred years or so. 6. Wars of Socialist 'liberation:' From the October Revolution in Russia to the victory last week in Zaire/Congo, marxist/socialist revolutionaries have sought state power in order to change relations of production. E. Most crim texts ignore most political crime; especially warfare leaving it to political science and to history texts. Most theories of crime focus upon low-level psychological variables/orientations. Addition of political crime to the inventory/content of crim texts would require major revisions/upgrades of theory. Conclusion: More people die in warfare than any other form of crime; more property is vandalized; more wealth stolen in warfare than in all other forms of crime combined. Why it is ignored by most criminologists is testimony to the ideological flaws and defaults in American Criminology inherited from socio-biology, physiology, reductionist psychology and depoliticized social psychology. A major task for postmodern crim in the 21st century is to add content and theory to the discipline. Next and last, a postmodern criminology grounded upon the new sciences of chaos/complexity. TR Young TR Young The Red Feather Institute 8085 Essex, Weidman, Mi., 48893 [517] 644 3089 From dalbers@runet.edu Mon May 26 07:53:34 1997 Received: from ruacad.runet.edu (ruacad-gw.runet.edu [137.45.128.4]) by csf.Colorado.EDU (8.7.6/8.7.3/CNS-4.0p) with ESMTP id HAA03620 for ; Mon, 26 May 1997 07:53:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from dalbers@localhost) by ruacad.runet.edu (8.7.5/8.7.5) id JAA01641; Mon, 26 May 1997 09:53:30 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 09:53:30 -0400 (EDT) From: Dale Albers To: socgrad@csf.colorado.edu Subject: Need Reference (s) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Good Morning. I am trying to get my hands on an article(s) or book that puts forth a pretty clear exposition on social constructionism and socal constructivism. My sense is that some people use them as though they are the same; I doubt this is so. Something that does point to any similarieites as well as differences that would be suitable for upper level undergraduates or beginning graduate students would be most appreciaed. With thanks. Dale Albers From harlowc@cats.ucsc.edu Mon May 26 11:14:50 1997 Received: from cats.ucsc.edu (rumpleteazer.UCSC.EDU [128.114.129.45]) by csf.Colorado.EDU (8.7.6/8.7.3/CNS-4.0p) with ESMTP id LAA10816 for ; Mon, 26 May 1997 11:14:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cats-po-1 (root@cats-po-1.UCSC.EDU [128.114.129.22]) by cats.ucsc.edu (8.8.5/8.8.4.cats-athena) with SMTP id KAA21297 for ; Mon, 26 May 1997 10:14:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from harlowc.ucsc.edu by cats-po-1 (8.6.13/4.8) id KAA03587; Mon, 26 May 1997 10:14:45 -0700 Message-ID: <31A890A5.6156@cats.ucsc.edu> Date: Sun, 26 May 1996 10:11:01 -0700 From: Christian Harlow Reply-To: harlowc@cats.ucsc.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 To: socgrad@csf.colorado.edu Subject: Re: Need Reference (s) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dale Albers wrote: > > Good Morning. > > I am trying to get my hands on an article(s) or book that puts forth a > pretty clear exposition on social constructionism and socal > constructivism. My sense is that some people use them as though they are > the same; I doubt this is so. Something that does point to any > similarieites as well as differences that would be suitable for upper > level undergraduates or beginning graduate students would be most appreciaed. > > With thanks. > > Dale Albers How about the seminal text on the issue: The Social Construction of Reality, by Pete Berger and Thomas Luckman... From TR.Young@uvm.edu Mon May 26 11:24:55 1997 Received: from smtpgate.uvm.edu (smtpgate.uvm.edu [132.198.101.121]) by csf.Colorado.EDU (8.7.6/8.7.3/CNS-4.0p) with SMTP id LAA11078 for ; Mon, 26 May 1997 11:24:54 -0600 (MDT) Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 11:24:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 8N9J6 (208.18.225.22) by smtpgate.uvm.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1a) with SMTP id <0.2FB31850@smtpgate.uvm.edu>; Mon, 26 May 1997 13:24:49 -0400 Message-Id: <1.5.4.16.19970526132431.0eff1bb2@pop.uvm.edu> X-Sender: tryoung@pop.uvm.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: TEACHSOC@maple.lemoyne.edu From: TR Young Subject: Social Psychology Cc: socgrad@csf.colorado.edu The idea that symbolic interaction theory ala Mead, Cooley Blumer et al pre-empts social psychology is most unwelcome to me. If one looks only at the traditional social psych textbooks in which a safe and depoliticized interaction/constructionist point of view is presented, one would naturally presume that there is one and only one god and that the name of that god is symbolic interactional theory. But, for some time, there have been competing, more powerful social psychologies...not excluding my own 'reading' of symbolic interactional theory in 'The Dramaturgical Society,' Transaction Books, 1991. For those who would like enliven a officially sponsored social psychology, one might want to explore: Cultural marxism, a fine social psychology which looks at: alienation ideological hegemony false consciousness ruling ideas and the ruling class social location and personal views as well as authoritarian personalities class consciousness and revolutionary ideas...to mention just a few topics central to progressive sociologists. Critical Theory which looks at the way media shape/pre-shape attitudes, images, understandings, opinions and the dialectics of self and society; racism, sexism, elitism and social position. Postmodern social psychology and its concern for the politics and poetics of the knowledge process as well as the human agendas which shape/mis-shape it. The politics have to do with standards imposed in art, music, literature and science itself. Affirmative postmodern social psychology is concerned with empowering those who 'voice' is excluded from the knowledge/ political process as well as deconstructing those established standards/truth claims/theories. The last meetings of the Stone Symposium went a long way to expand social psychology to include postmodern sensibility...still there is much to do if the listings presented so far are indicative. TR Young TR Young The Red Feather Institute 8085 Essex, Weidman, Mi., 48893 [517] 644 3089 From conroyt@bu.edu Mon May 26 13:42:05 1997 Received: from acs4.bu.edu (ACS4.BU.EDU [128.197.154.40]) by csf.Colorado.EDU (8.7.6/8.7.3/CNS-4.0p) with ESMTP id NAA15603 for ; Mon, 26 May 1997 13:42:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from conroyt@localhost) by acs4.bu.edu (8.8.4/) id PAA51929; Mon, 26 May 1997 15:40:45 -0400 Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 15:40:45 -0400 (EDT) From: thomas conroy Subject: Re: Need Reference (s) To: Dale Albers cc: Sociology Graduate Students -- International In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Have a look at a book called CONSTRUCTING THE SOCIAL, 1994, Sage, edited by T. Sarbin and J. Kitsuse. In the introductory chapter, the editors provide an overview of constructionism's history in sociology and psychology. My own gloss on the constructionism - constructivism distinction is that, even though they are often used interchangably, the former tends to come out of sociological discussions (e.g., Berger and Luckmann, Spector and Kitsuse's CONSTRUCTING SOCIAL PROBLEMS, etc.), whereas the latter term tends to be associated more with psychology and more purely cognitivist accounts. Of course, I'm sure that there are lots of exceptions, since the term "construction," like "social structure," has can mean just about anything its user wants it to mean (not that I necessarily approve of this slide toward conceptual anarchy). Tom Conroy Boston University On Mon, 26 May 1997, Dale Albers wrote: > > Good Morning. > > I am trying to get my hands on an article(s) or book that puts forth a > pretty clear exposition on social constructionism and socal > constructivism. My sense is that some people use them as though they are > the same; I doubt this is so. Something that does point to any > similarieites as well as differences that would be suitable for upper > level undergraduates or beginning graduate students would be most appreciaed. > > With thanks. > > Dale Albers > From harvey@math.ucla.edu Mon May 26 15:27:42 1997 Received: from carson.stat.ucla.edu (carson.stat.ucla.edu [128.97.86.52]) by csf.Colorado.EDU (8.7.6/8.7.3/CNS-4.0p) with ESMTP id PAA21686 for ; Mon, 26 May 1997 15:27:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from harvey@localhost) by carson.stat.ucla.edu (8.8.3/8.8.3) id OAA09654 for socgrad@csf.colorado.edu; Mon, 26 May 1997 14:27:39 -0700 (PDT) From: Tyrone Linell Harvey Message-Id: <199705262127.OAA09654@carson.stat.ucla.edu> Subject: Re: Teaching Criminology: Part VI: Political Crime To: socgrad@csf.colorado.edu Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 14:27:39 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.16.19970526085536.0def3624@pop.uvm.edu> from "TR Young" at May 26, 97 06:56:02 am MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In your political crime model you list patriarchy, racism, national chauvinism, class exploitatin/alienation and agesim as the structures of domination. You then point that you didn't mentinon inequality because you recognize that, as Marcuse did, some inequality is necessary. What form of inequality do you have in mind that might be "necessary" which doesn't fit into one of your major categories? > tl harvey > A. Political crime seldom appears in crim texts. Intro texts > B. Definition: Political crime is that use of power to reproduce > structures of domination. there are five major structures > which inform/fuel most of the political crime in the 21st > century; > > 1. Patriarchy 2. Racism 3. National Chauvinism > 4. Class exploitation/alienation 5. Ageism > > Notice I did not mention inequality as do most radical crimin- > ologists. I think that some inequality may well be helpful to the > human estate; I accept the notion of necessary repression and > as with Marcuse, prefer to speak of surplus repression in the > use of power inequalities. > From BJR49@student.canterbury.ac.nz Mon May 26 16:45:18 1997 Received: from cantva.canterbury.ac.nz (cantva.canterbury.ac.nz [132.181.30.3]) by csf.Colorado.EDU (8.7.6/8.7.3/CNS-4.0p) with ESMTP id QAA23788 for ; Mon, 26 May 1997 16:45:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from bjr49.tacacs.canterbury.ac.nz ("port 1030"@bjr49.tacacs.canterbury.ac.nz) by csc.canterbury.ac.nz (PMDF V5.1-7 #17207) with SMTP id <01IJD0V5PECM8WXG83@csc.canterbury.ac.nz> for socgrad@csf.colorado.edu; Tue, 27 May 1997 10:45:11 +1200 Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 10:35:34 +1300 From: Ocean Subject: MUDs To: socgrad@csf.colorado.edu Message-id: <338A0226.ABA@csc.canterbury.ac.nz> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Hi again everyone! Thanks to all those people who gave me the excellent references, URLs on virtual identities and communities etc. Thankfully I have now been able to narrow my research down to focusing mainly on social interaction in MUDs. I have a few readings from the net and library on MUDs, but would appriciate it if annyone could give me any more. Thanks, Belinda ************************ University of Canterbury New Zealand ************************ From TR.Young@uvm.edu Tue May 27 05:35:09 1997 Received: from smtpgate.uvm.edu (smtpgate.uvm.edu [132.198.101.121]) by csf.Colorado.EDU (8.7.6/8.7.3/CNS-4.0p) with SMTP id FAA21048 for ; Tue, 27 May 1997 05:35:08 -0600 (MDT) Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 05:35:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 8N9J6 (208.18.225.18) by smtpgate.uvm.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1a) with SMTP id <0.7EF09A30@smtpgate.uvm.edu>; Tue, 27 May 1997 7:35:05 -0400 Message-Id: <1.5.4.16.19970527073447.333f407c@pop.uvm.edu> X-Sender: tryoung@pop.uvm.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: socgrad@csf.colorado.edu From: TR Young Subject: Forms/Levels of Inequality TL Harvey asked me to explain/defend my contention that some forms of inequality were helpful to the human project: here is my reply. TRY ************** TLH: Good question...I did not develop that point; glad you caught it...it is very important to specify levels and forms of inequality if we are to institutionalize them. The forms of inequality which I regard as helpful to the human project include power, wealth and status. The degree to which they may, repeat may, be helpful depends upon the uses to which inequality is put: 1. Power inequality: a. socialization: I think power is essential to the socialization process as between parents and child; as between teacher and student; as between mentor and acolyte. Use of power inequality becomes a political crime, in substantive terms, when that power is used for privatized, non-social reasons. Sexual exploit- tation, brutalization and degradation are case in point./ b. necessary repression of adults: the social realism of marxist criminology does not see street crime as emancipatory/oppository...rather MSR requires it be suppressed; robbery, rape, assualt and other uses of physical power against the human process is, I believe, essential. c. control of formal institutions: corporate crime, genocide, pollution and other forms of organizational crime must be subordinate to the social power/interests of society in general. B. Wealth: Gradients in wealth can be most helpful to the social process: a. capital accumulation: provision for research, infra- structure and collective needs generally requires accumulation of capital. Different communities, different countries, different groups have different priorities. These differences result in differing levels of capital accumulation. b. reward/motivation: Economic planning requires different rewards assigned to jobs/programs for which there is little interest. Teaching is much more rewarding than administration; its a dirty job but someone has to do it. Cuba and other socialist countries set a 5:1, 10:1 ratio between high and low paid jobs...I would go for that. Capitalism has no intrinsic limit of wealth inequality; last time I looked CEO's of major US corporations got over 1000 times as much income as basic workers...that kind of inequality is most dangerous to economic integrity of a society as to the political process. c. status: Racism, sexism, ageism and ethnic 'cleansing' makes us suspicious, rightly so, of claims of social honor/social superiority. But there are other dimensions of social honor which might well be deployed to honor those whose art, music, science, drama and philosophy ennobles the human spirit. In Japan, skilled artisans are treated as national treasure and so honored. I tend to think that each major form of endeavor should be organized to recognize exceptional effort/talent/work. Nor should these be held to embody 'universal' norms of excellence; simply excellence which some people in some societies at some point in history see merit. D. What do you think?? What kinds/levels/domains would you suggest on the question?? and do note my new email address, TR At 02:27 PM 5/26/97 -0700, you wrote: >In your political crime model you list patriarchy, racism, national chauvinism, class >exploitatin/alienation and agesim as the structures of domination. >You then point that you didn't mentinon inequality because you recognize >that, as Marcuse did, some inequality is necessary. What form of >inequality do you have in mind that might be "necessary" which doesn't fit >into one of your major categories? >> > >tl harvey > >> TR Young The Red Feather Institute 8085 Essex, Weidman, Mi., 48893 [517] 644 3089 Email: tr@tryoung.com From cassell@frosty.irss.unc.edu Tue May 27 05:46:06 1997 Received: from frosty.irss.unc.edu (frosty.irss.unc.edu [152.2.32.82]) by csf.Colorado.EDU (8.7.6/8.7.3/CNS-4.0p) with SMTP id FAA21553 for ; Tue, 27 May 1997 05:46:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from cassell@localhost) by frosty.irss.unc.edu (8.6.12/8.6.10) id HAA28793; Tue, 27 May 1997 07:44:57 -0400 Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 07:44:57 -0400 (EDT) From: Jim Cassell To: Sociology Graduate Student Discussion , asascan Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Thought some of you might be interested in this item from Edupage. - Jim ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ James Cassell Institute for Research in Social Science e-mail: cassell@irss.unc.edu University of North Carolina Ph: 919/962-0782 Fx: 919/962-4777 Chapel Hill, NC 27599-3355 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 18:22:59 -0400 (EDT) From: Edupage Editors To: EDUCOM Edupage Mailing List Subject: Edupage, 25 May 1997 ************************************************************ Edupage, 25 May 1997. Edupage, a summary of news about information technology, is provided three times a week as a service by Educom, a Washington, D.C.-based consortium of leading colleges and universities seeking to transform education through the use of information technology. ************************************************************ RESOURCE CENTER FOR CYBERCULTURE A University of Maryland graduate student has developed a Web site that serves as a networking center for academics dealing with cybercultural issues. The Resource Center for Cyberculture Studies has a variety of areas for teachers to explore, including an area where they can post information on their classes or areas of study. Professors from other institutions have found the site useful: "It's a good filter. The stuff I've seen there is helpful," says a professor at the University of Virginia. "One of the big challenges here is fighting link rot," he adds. (Wired News 14 May 97) http://otal.umd.edu/~rccs Edupage is written by John Gehl & Suzanne Douglas . Voice: 404-371-1853, Fax: 404-371-8057. Technical support is provided by Information Technology Services at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. ************************************************************ Edupage ... is what you've just finished reading. To subscribe to Edupage: send mail to: listproc@educom.unc.edu with the message: subscribe edupage William Shakespeare (if your name is William Shakespeare; otherwise, substitute your own name). To unsubscribe send a message to: listproc@educom.unc.edu with the message: unsubscribe edupage. (If you have subscription problems, send mail to manager@educom.unc.edu.) Educom Review ... is our bimonthly print magazine on information technology and education ... Subscriptions are $18 a year in the U.S.; send mail to offer@educom.edu. When you do, we'll ring a little bell, because we'll be so happy! Choice of bell is yours: a small dome with a button, like the one on the counter at the dry cleaners with the sign "Ring bell for service"; or a small hand bell; or a cathedral bell; or a door bell; or a chime; or a glockenspiel. Your choice. But ring it! Educom Update ... is our twice-a-month electronic summary of organizational news and events. To subscribe, send mail to: listproc@educom.unc.edu with the message: subscribe update Edward de Vere (if your name is J. Edward de Vere; otherwise, substitute your own name). Archives & Translations ... Edupage is translated into Chinese, Estonian, German, Greek, Hebrew, Italian, Hungarian, Korean, Lithuanian, Portuguese, Romanian, Slovak and Spanish. Send mail to translations@educom.unc.edu for info on subscribing to any of these translations. Today's Honorary Subscribers are William Shakespeare (1564-1616) and the nobleman Edward de Vere, seventeenth Earl of Oxford (1550-1604). Shakespeare is, of course, renowned as the author of "Hamlet," "King Lear," "The Tempest," and other great plays, yet those plays may have really been written by Oxford -- courtier, poet, athlete, scholar, theater patron, and dandy -- rather than by Shakespeare. Why did Oxford hide behind Shakespeare -- a member of Oxford's acting company -- rather than use his own identity? In the new book "Alias Shakespeare: Solving The Greatest Literary Mystery Of All Time," Joseph Sobran explains: "As Oxford was a nobleman of high rank and ancient lineage, it would have been scandalous if he had been known to be slumming in the theater -- not the sort of news that would have been fit to print." ************************************************************ Educom -- Transforming Education Through Information Technology ************************************************************ From TR.Young@uvm.edu Tue May 27 06:59:08 1997 Received: from smtpgate.uvm.edu (smtpgate.uvm.edu [132.198.101.121]) by csf.Colorado.EDU (8.7.6/8.7.3/CNS-4.0p) with SMTP id GAA26948 for ; Tue, 27 May 1997 06:59:05 -0600 (MDT) Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 06:59:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 8N9J6 (208.18.225.18) by smtpgate.uvm.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1a) with SMTP id <0.36DB9360@smtpgate.uvm.edu>; Tue, 27 May 1997 8:58:58 -0400 Message-Id: <1.5.4.16.19970527085840.383f5988@pop.uvm.edu> X-Sender: tryoung@pop.uvm.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: socgrad@csf.colorado.edu From: TR Young Subject: Part VII: Postmodern Criminology Cc: TEACHSOC@maple.lemoyne.edu A. This is the final part of a seven part series on teaching criminology. The series was prepared for graduate students in sociology as part of the Transforming Sociology Series of the Red Feather Institute for Advanced Studies in Sociology. Many of prior lectures prepared and posted on Socgrad are available on-line as well as several articles on affirmative postmodern sociology and chaos theory at: http://www.tryoung.com B. PostModern Philosophy of Science. Postmodern science has very attributes from the modern science which, 300 years after the death of Newton, continues to inform sociology in general and criminology in particular. In this and other work, posted on-line at the address above, I use the new sciences of chaos and complexity with which to sort out the dynamics of crime, change, class and other topics of interest to sociology. Among the very different attributes are: 1. Non-linear Dynamics which reduce the epistemological efficacy of modernist/newtonian scientific tools: prediction, replicability, statistical inference of causality, generalizability, logically coherent theoretical models, 2. A Fractal Geometry of social forms which are product of those non-linear dynamics and... 3. A complex and changeable feedback between fractal forms--which take three forms: positive, negative and non-linear...these feedback patterns replace the standard notions of causality. Both positive and negative feedback patterns do, indeed, permit one to speak, poetically, of causality; however, most complex systems exhibit non-linear feedback between systems. 4. These, together, constitute a postmodern philosophy of science which can be set in opposition to the more nihilistic versions/assertions in postmodern scholar- ship which deny the possibility of objective know- ledge. In a word, there is enough order even in the most chaotic regimes to permit some degree of insight about what is happening. C. Postmodern Criminology. The research design used in all modern science is set up in order to eliminate understanding of non-linear dynamics and fractal facticities. In a recent comment in the LA Times, James Q. Wilson is quoted as saying '...real science involves testing theories by repeated and independent experiments.' Wilson uses research in DNA, a simple system with linear dynamics as the model for battered women and children who live--and die--in very complex and nonlinear systems. He urges that courts use the truth standards appropriate for simple, linear systems in criminal cases. Until we set in place quite a different research design, one which looks for changing truth values as key variables make small changes, both human understanding and social policy are hostage to this simplistic science. a. Bifurcations. A postmodern criminology grounded chaos/complexity theory begins with the concept of the bifurcation. 1) Key variables bifurcate, change from displaying one track for a given kind of behavior to having two tracks. This is monumentally different from the kind of science Wilson presumes. A small change in a key varible can produce qualitatively different behavior for some of the systems involved. Think of it; it is not the intervention of a new variable which produces new behavior but a small change in an ordinary variable which, at a different setting, did not entail that behavior. 2) In criminology, a small change in salary/income may produce a big change in crime. While most people in given circumstances did not steal at time one, some unpredictable portion of those well socialized well educated, white collar professionals begin to steal from employers, exploit patients, embezzle from clients and/or turn to entirely new and creative forms of crime. 3. With each bifurcation, causality fades and fails. With one, ` two, or four tracks a system might take, causality is tight enough to support modernistic models of science. When there are four, eight, sixteen or thirty-two tracks produced by two, four, eight bifucations, criminality of given doctor, lawyer, broker, or banker becomes very uncertain indeed. The same can be expected for corporations; small changes in profit/loss ratios may trigger new and innovate ways of cheating customers, endangering workers, subverting competitors and evading taxes. Social life still occurs; order is found still; society still survives but non-linear research techniques are appropriate. Replication, falsification, statistical inference, theory-building and predication fail as knowledge tools. And, as more and more uncertainty enters the lives of human beings, social control tactics fail as a solution to the problem of order. But social control is possible; this time, control of key variables; macro-structural processes are the proper target of affirmative postmodern criminology rather than increase of pain and costs to particular individuals. 4. Key variables: I have tried to suggest some of the key variables which may be involved in the cascade toward criminality in each part of this series. Key variables for street crime appear to be employment, income, desire, and social power. For white collar crime, the key variables may be income, life- style, life crisis and job satisfaction. Corporate crime is fueled by, I think, small changes in interest rates, taxes, demand, prices, and investment. Political crime is affected, I believe in small changes in macro-structural variables; population, kondratieff/kutznets cycles, infra-structure costs, taxe base, climate/agricultural productivity...prod- uctivity generally. b. Attractors. Each bifurcations produces a new set of attactors for human beings who, perforce, must live out their lives in systems with changing variables. In criminality, the attractors at hand are one or more new ways to reducing uncertainty; new ways of behaving; new patterns of working, stealing, helping or hurting each other. 1. Fractal Facticity. As bifurcations increase, the geometry of social forms become ever more fuzzy and fragmented. In criminology, the social boundaries between 'criminals' vs 'law-abiding' citizens becomes less and less clear. And for a given person, the routines of life become less and less predictable...while criminality may be a life-style in one outcome field, it may be very episodic in another...for the very same people with the very same socialization/character/ genes/menstrual cycle/religious beliefs. 2. Cascading Uncertainties. While a given person may be able to handle one, two or three uncertainties in family, at work, in school and/or in health, each new uncertainty brings evermore creative ways to handle social-life...some of which may be very helpful + to the human project; some less so. c. Feedback. In the postmodern science with which I work, feedback replaces the concept of causality. Causal connection may well exist but, in social life, they are very different from the simple physical systems with which Newton worked and changed the world. There are three kinds of feedback one must think about in postmodern criminology. 1. Linear and Positive feedback. If a system is designed such that positive feedback results as between systems and sub-systems, great peril for the integrity of the system ensues. Positive feedback tends to explode the outcome field and fill it with evermore attractors. Systems tend to fill the causal space available to them. Think of the screech of sound when there is positive feedback between a speaker and a microphone. Think of the chaos which linear feedback brings in economics; income gaps between rich and poor continue to increase until revolution breaks out. Think of the violence which occurs when racism continues to increase the status differences between majority and minority. Linear feedback is a recipe for the deep chaos so hostile to the sensibility of those who argue for law and order. Yet linearity in policing, in trying, in judging, and in sentencing people is said to be a solution to crime. 2. Linear and Negative Feedback. Positive feedback results in deep chaos; negative feedback results in death. Both are hostile to the transcending stability of social life. In populations as in physics, negative feedback fulfills the prophecy of death in the second law of thermodynamics...every system tends to fall apart. 3. Non-linear feedback. If we want to maintain the stability of a social life world, then we must consider at what point we must change from linear feedback to non-linear in our social policies. Market dynamics work on the basis of positive feedback to firms, investors, inventors and workers. The same price for the same item permits mass marketting; the same process for the same product permit mass production; the same rate for each hour worked makes mass employment possible; the same sentences for the same crime produces a certain rationality in the criminal justice system. yet human beings live in qualitatively different life circumstances. Rationality becomes enemy to social stability for such people. At some point, social policy must transcend the thin rationality of mechanistic logic and deploy the larger rationality of mercy, compassion, hope and faith in things not known with certainty. d. Algorithms: an algorithms is a set of 'instructions' which shape the destiny of a system...non-linear algorithms have two parts; one or more variables which are constant and one or more which settings vary. 1) Racism is a constant in the lives of many people...job opportunity, health, police response, relationships are variable... With such an algorithm, a given cohort of young minority persons, Afro-Americans, Native Indians, Migrants and others who constantly face racist, ethno-centric discrimination find themselves in non-linear social settings. Given, say, 10,000 young minorities children in, say, Chicago, the sociologist would know that which each bifurcation in key variables...health, job, policing for example, new attractors would emerge. Some would be pro-social; some not. The important methodological point is that while we could predict a fairly stable sub-set of kids would go to a given attractor, we could not predict which would...small changes at bifurcation points in key variables would send similar kids in quite different directions. 2) Income is a constant in the lives of young, middle class children as is high status for white kids...one would see much less uncertainty in the lives of these kids; fewer new attractors, good, bad or indifferent. 3) Ratios between desire and resources vary greatly; both are variable while racism is a constant. In such non-linear dynamics, we could be sure that efforts to reduce mismatch between desire and resouces would entail a great deal more surprize in the lives of those whose devices are limited but whose desire, fueled by adverizing is not limited. e. Iterations. Daily, weekly, seasonal and yearly cycles are such iterations. In non-linear iterations, self-similarity replaces the sameness found in linear iterations. Ordinary epistemological tools do not work in non- linear criminology; High correlations are not helpful to the knowledge process; replication does not prove falsity/valdity; formal axiomatic theory is not possible/useful in non-linear dynamcis. Given the same set of kids in the same conditions each cycle would produce slightly new behaviors in class, in play, in crime or in family life would be expected. Given the same set of doctors in the same conditions, each new cycle would produce different rates of crime. Given the same set of corporations with the same labor costs, the same tax table, the same level of demand, the same level of competition, crime rates would vary if even one key variable made a small change. At critical settings; those close to bifurcation points, great increases in white collar, corporate and political crime would be triggered by small changes in key variables. CONCLUSION: A postmodern criminology is as much concerned with preventing crime as with charting and theorizing about it. Postmodern criminology looks for changing correlations rather than high correlations. Postmodern criminology looks for ways to keep a society with enough order to serve the human need for dependable scheduling of social interaction while maintaining enough disorder to permit change, flexibility, adaptation and creativity. Postmodern crime policy is not oriented so much to control, pain and punishment as to careful, light and strategic adjustments of key variables which affect the kind and number of attractors. Postmodern crime policy is not concerned so much with individuals but with kind and degree of linearity of structural variables: racism, class inequality, gender oppressions as well as national/transnational exploitations. In a word, postmodern criminology is more oriented to social justice than to criminal justice. TR Young TR Young The Red Feather Institute 8085 Essex, Weidman, Mi., 48893 [517] 644 3089 Email: tr@tryoung.com From jmccorke@UDel.Edu Tue May 27 09:22:23 1997 Received: from copland.udel.edu (copland.udel.edu [128.175.13.92]) by csf.Colorado.EDU (8.7.6/8.7.3/CNS-4.0p) with ESMTP id JAA02561 for ; Tue, 27 May 1997 09:22:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (jmccorke@localhost) by copland.udel.edu (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA10785 for ; Tue, 27 May 1997 11:22:20 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 11:22:20 -0400 (EDT) From: Jill Ann McCorkel To: Sociology Graduate Students -- International Subject: Re: Forms/Levels of Inequality In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.16.19970527073447.333f407c@pop.uvm.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII It seems to me that you are conflating "private" with "non-social"--are you suggesting that gender oppression, for example, is not institutionalized in the "private" sphere of family and personal relations? What would constitute a non-social form of oppression and concomintanly, inequality? Are you taking up a functional analysis to distinguish social from the non-social? Jill McCorkel University of Delaware > some forms of inequality were helpful to the > human project: here is my reply. TRY > > caught it...it is very important to specify levels and forms > of inequality if we are to institutionalize them. > > > Use of power inequality becomes a political crime, > in substantive terms, when that power is used for > privatized, non-social reasons. Sexual exploit- > tation, brutalization and degradation are case in > point./ > > From conroyt@bu.edu Tue May 27 10:30:24 1997 Received: from acs5.bu.edu (ACS5.BU.EDU [128.197.154.50]) by csf.Colorado.EDU (8.7.6/8.7.3/CNS-4.0p) with ESMTP id KAA07029 for ; Tue, 27 May 1997 10:30:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from conroyt@localhost) by acs5.bu.edu (8.8.4/) id MAA145078; Tue, 27 May 1997 12:29:22 -0400 Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 12:29:22 -0400 (EDT) From: thomas conroy Sender: thomas conroy Reply-To: thomas conroy Subject: Sociology of Everyday Life To: teachsoc list cc: list , tom conroy Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII I'm going to be teaching a course at nearby Wheelock College in the `Sociology of Everyday Life' this Fall, and have put together the following reading list. This is a tentative list at the moment, and I am wondering what others think about it: has anyone taught any of these readings before? Are there suggestions about what I should add, or what I should remove from here? Basically, I want to teach the course from an ethnomethodological/social constructionist perspective, but bringing in such additional perspectives as SI, Goffmanian sociology, cultural studies, and postmodernism, as these pertain to relevant areas. Also, my reason for including two of my own unpublished papers is not that they are the pinnacle of work in their topics, but that I know what I wrote very well and can use them to generate further discussion. Also, some of these articles are published in the reader, THE PRODUCTION OF REALITY: ESSAYS AND READINGS IN SOCIAL PSYCHOLOGY, 1994 I should mention that this will be a course primarily for first year, first semester students. The way Wheelock is structured is that all students double major, with one concentration being in a core area (social science, natural science, humanities, or art) and in an applied area (human services, early childhood development, etc.) Anyway, here is my list; any comments or suggestions will be greatly appreciated. Tom Conroy Boston University ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Reading List: Sociology of Everyday Life (as of 5/27/97) Fall 1997 Wheelock College Instructor: T Conroy OVERVIEW 1. Adler, PA, P Adler, and A. Fontana - "Everyday Life Sociology" 1987 2. Davis, Fred - "Of Maid's Uniforms and Blue Jeans: The Drama, Status, and Ambivalence in Clothing and Fashion" 1989 3. Psathas, George - "Approaches to the Study of the World of Everyday Life" -from, PHENOMENOLOGY AND SOCIOLOGY: THEORY AND RESEARCH 1989 4. Smith, Dorothy - "Researching the World of Everyday Life" -from, THE EVERYDAY WORLD AS PROBLEMATIC 1987 SELF AND MEMBERSHIP 5. Leiter, Ken - "The Members' Sense of Social Structure" from, A PRIMER ON ETHNOMETHODOLOGY 1979 6. Goffman, Erving - "The Individual as a Unit" from, RELATIONS IN PUBLIC 1971 7. Fuchs, HR - "Creating the Ex-Role" 1988 INTERACTIONAL DYNAMICS 8. Conroy, TM - "Notes on Greeting Behavior" 1988 9. Kollock, Peter, Philip Blumstein, and Pepper Schwartz - Sex and Power in Interaction: Conversational Privileges and Duties" 1985 10. Pollner, Mel and Lynn McDonald-Wickler - "The Social Construction of Unreality: A Case Study of a Family's Attribution of Competence to a Severely Retarded Child" 1985 11. Simon, Robin, Donna Eder, and Cathy Evans - "The Development of Feeling Norms Underlying Romantic Love among Adolescent Females" 1992 MUNDANE AND CRITICAL PRACTICES 12. Scheflen, Albert - "With and Non-With Spaces" -from, HUMAN TERRITORIES: HOW WE BEHAVE IN SPACE-TIME, 1976 13. Ryave, A. Lincoln and James Schenkein - "Notes on the Art of Walking" -from, R. Turner (Ed.) ETHNOMETHODOLOGY, 1974 14. Conroy, TM - "The Practical Accomplishment of Lines" 1991 15. de Certeau, Michel - "Walking in the City" -from, THE PRACTICE OF EVERYDAY LIFE, 1984 From czerlinski@mpipf-muenchen.mpg.de Tue May 27 10:55:26 1997 Received: from canetoad.mpipf-muenchen.mpg.de (canetoad.mpipf-muenchen.mpg.de [192.129.1.30]) by csf.Colorado.EDU (8.7.6/8.7.3/CNS-4.0p) with SMTP id KAA09912 for ; Tue, 27 May 1997 10:55:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mac29.mpipf-muenchen.mpg.de by canetoad.mpipf-muenchen.mpg.de; (5.65v3.2/1.1.8.2/25Oct95-1145AM) id AA07974; Tue, 27 May 1997 18:55:20 +0200 X-Sender: rjean@canetoad.mpipf-muenchen.mpg.de Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 18:55:28 +0200 To: socgrad@csf.colorado.edu From: czerlinski@mpipf-muenchen.mpg.de (Jean Czerlinski) Subject: Re: Sociology of Everyday Life I don't know exactly what soc. of everyday life is, but here are two possibly relevant books: * Habits of the Heart, by a group of people including Ann Swidler. A history and survey, cultural style with interviews, of how Americans choose to live their lives. How much does career matter? How much does family matter? From where does one get one's identity (e.g. being in clubs)? * The Managed Heart, by ___. (Sorry, I'm bad on names today.) This is a story of how flight attendants are trained, especially how they are taught to manage their emotions and always look happy no matter how frustrating things get. The customer is always right, etc.. But at what cost to the flight attendants' themselves? Best of luck with your course, Jean Jean Czerlinski Max Planck Institute for Psychological Research From m.hoover@csu-e.csuohio.edu Tue May 27 11:03:20 1997 Received: from csu-e.csuohio.edu (csu-e.csuohio.edu [137.148.49.12]) by csf.Colorado.EDU (8.7.6/8.7.3/CNS-4.0p) with SMTP id LAA10290 for ; Tue, 27 May 1997 11:03:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from myhost.csuohio.edu (gradstud1.asic.csuohio.edu [137.148.25.41]) by csu-e.csuohio.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id NAA00922 for ; Tue, 27 May 1997 13:03:16 -0400 Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 13:03:16 -0400 Message-Id: <199705271703.NAA00922@csu-e.csuohio.edu> X-Sender: m.hoover@popmail.csuohio.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: socgrad@csf.colorado.edu From: Matthew Hoover Subject: Re: Sociology of Everyday Life Tom, I think that you have an excellent reading list for your students. Under the "self and membership" category, I would suggest Cooley's classic article "The Looking Glass Self". The article offers a good way to introduce symbolic interactionism. The first chapter of Goffman's _Presentation of Self in Everyday Life_ might also be helpful. If you are looking for a good overall introduction to the work of Goffman I would suggest Philip Manning's _Erving Goffman and Modern Sociology_. Matt m.hoover@popmail.csuohio.edu From TR.Young@uvm.edu Tue May 27 11:04:05 1997 Received: from smtpgate.uvm.edu (smtpgate.uvm.edu [132.198.101.121]) by csf.Colorado.EDU (8.7.6/8.7.3/CNS-4.0p) with SMTP id LAA10371 for ; Tue, 27 May 1997 11:04:03 -0600 (MDT) Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 11:04:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 8N9J6 (208.18.225.13) by smtpgate.uvm.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1a) with SMTP id <0.722CD8D0@smtpgate.uvm.edu>; Tue, 27 May 1997 13:04:01 -0400 Message-Id: <1.5.4.16.19970527130343.33df41ca@pop.uvm.edu> X-Sender: tryoung@pop.uvm.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: socgrad@csf.colorado.edu From: TR Young Subject: New Msc in Gender, Agriculture and Rural Development >fyi...TR **** >Subject: New Msc in Gender, Agriculture and Rural Development >X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.0 -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN > >International Msc in Gender, Agriculture and Rural Development > >Wageningen Agricultural University is now accepting applicants for the >first International Masters Degree Programme in Gender, Agriculture and >Rural Development (GARD) to be inaugurated in September 1998. This M.Sc. is >the first in the world to focus on gender, rural change processes, the >environment and sustainable agricultural development in developed and >developing countries, providing students with conceptual and methodological >approaches to research, policies, programmes and project formulation and >implementation that permit these to become more gender sensitive. > >The programme is organized into three blocks. The first block consists of >required courses in Gender Studies, Rural Sociology and Economics, where >students are exposed to the principle theories, concepts, comparative >empirical research, research methods and related debates in Gender, >Agriculture and Rural Development. > >The second block consists of optional courses which permit students to >pursue a specialization. The three possibilities are: > * Gender, Environment and Natural Resources Management > * Gender, Institutions and Development Interventions, or > * An Independent Specialization. >In the Independent Specialization, students can create their own area of >special concentration, for example in rural marketing, employment, credit, >extension, animal production, irrigation, land use, plant protection, etc. > >The third block consists of thesis preparation. With the support of special >courses, workshops and supervision, students will design and carry out in >their area of specialization a field research project usually conducted in >the home country, which will culminate in the presentation of a Master's >thesis. > >A social science background is not required, but students are expected to >have a vivid interest in social questions and be committed to the subject >matter. Applicants from both developed and developing countries worldwide >are welcome. The Programme will prepare students for professional academic >or development work as gender and agriculture/rural development specialists >with a strong social science emphasis, able to professionally apply a >gender perspective in their particular technical or social >agriculture/rural development specialization. Graduates of Gender Studies >in Agriculture at WAU currently hold positions in international >organizations, government institutions, universities, research institutes, >consultancy firms, and NGOs. > > >Wolffensperger, Gender, Agriculture and Rural Development, Wageningen >Agricultural University, De Leeuwenborch/Hollandseweg 1, 6706 KN >Wageningen, The Netherlands, Fax ++31-317-483990, Email >Joan.Wolffensperger@alg.vsl. wau.nl or visit the WAU website at: >http://www.wau.nl > > > > TR Young The Red Feather Institute 8085 Essex, Weidman, Mi., 48893 [517] 644 3089 Email: tr@tryoung.com From TR.Young@uvm.edu Tue May 27 11:05:28 1997 Received: from smtpgate.uvm.edu (smtpgate.uvm.edu [132.198.101.121]) by csf.Colorado.EDU (8.7.6/8.7.3/CNS-4.0p) with SMTP id LAA10502 for ; Tue, 27 May 1997 11:05:26 -0600 (MDT) Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 11:05:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 8N9J6 (208.18.225.13) by smtpgate.uvm.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1a) with SMTP id <0.A3A5A450@smtpgate.uvm.edu>; Tue, 27 May 1997 13:05:24 -0400 Message-Id: <1.5.4.16.19970527130506.33df78a8@pop.uvm.edu> X-Sender: tryoung@pop.uvm.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: socgrad@csf.colorado.edu From: TR Young Subject: Funded PhD Place (Medical Sociology) fyi...TR ***** >Subject: Funded PhD Place (Medical Sociology) >X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.0 -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN > >Could you please pass this on to anyone who may be interested (e.g. >finals students, research assistants, etc). > >ADVERT - Funded PhD place (urgent deadline for applications Tuesday >10th June 1997.) > >RESEARCH STUDENTSHIP >MRC MEDICAL SOCIOLOGY UNIT, >UNIVERSITY OF GLASGOW >GLASGOW >SCOTLAND > >Lay perceptions of inequalities in health: aetiology and salience of >class and gender differences > >Supervisors: Kate Hunt (MRC) and Jenny Kitzinger (Glasgow University) > > >Applications are invited for an MRC PhD Studentship in Medical >Sociology. > >There has been much interest in health inequalities in the 1980s and >1990s, but, although there is a some research on lay perceptions of >health, little is known about lay perceptions of inequalities in >health. What levels of social inequality do people perceive, what >aspects do they perceive to be health-damaging, and with whom do they >compare themselves? A particular interest is in class and gender. > >The Medical Sociology Unit provides excellent support for students and >has a strong tradition of research in health inequalities and in >qualitative and quantitative methods. The project will inform the >health inequalities debate, and could also link with studies on the >public understanding of science. > >Applicants should have, or expect to have, a class 2(i) Honours degree >or better in the social sciences. Further particulars are available >from Kate Hunt, MRC Medical Sociology Unit, 6 Lilybank Gardens, G12 >8RZ (Tel: (0141) 357-3949)(email: kate@msoc.mrc.gla.ac.uk ) to whom >applications with C.V. and the names of two referees should be sent by >Tuesday 10th June 1997. >______________________________________________ >Dr. Simon Carter >MRC Medical Sociology Unit >6 Lilybank Gardens >University of Glasgow >Glasgow G12 8RZ > >Tel: 0141-357-3949 >Fax: 0141-337-2389 >e-mail: simon@msoc.mrc.gla.ac.uk >Talk : simon@medsoc-6.mrc.gla.ac.uk > > TR Young The Red Feather Institute 8085 Essex, Weidman, Mi., 48893 [517] 644 3089 Email: tr@tryoung.com From jmccorke@UDel.Edu Tue May 27 11:31:40 1997 Received: from copland.udel.edu (copland.udel.edu [128.175.13.92]) by csf.Colorado.EDU (8.7.6/8.7.3/CNS-4.0p) with ESMTP id LAA12133 for ; Tue, 27 May 1997 11:31:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (jmccorke@localhost) by copland.udel.edu (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA03908 for ; Tue, 27 May 1997 13:31:37 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 13:31:37 -0400 (EDT) From: Jill Ann McCorkel To: Sociology Graduate Students -- International Subject: Re: Sociology of Everyday Life In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Tue, 27 May 1997, Jean Czerlinski wrote: > * The Managed Heart, by ___. (Sorry, I'm bad on names today.) > This is a story of how flight attendants are trained, especially how they > are taught to manage their emotions and always look happy no matter how > frustrating things get. The customer is always right, etc.. But at what > cost to the flight attendants' themselves? Sounds like a great course--I think the Managed Heart is a great addition--Arlie Hochschild (1983). I think it's Univ. Calif. press Jill McCorkel University of Delaware From dcoon@ksu.edu Tue May 27 11:38:36 1997 Received: from mailhub.cns.ksu.edu (grunt.ksu.ksu.edu [129.130.12.17]) by csf.Colorado.EDU (8.7.6/8.7.3/CNS-4.0p) with ESMTP id LAA12283 for ; Tue, 27 May 1997 11:38:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cbs (dcoon@cbs.ksu.ksu.edu [129.130.12.4]) by mailhub.cns.ksu.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5/mailhub+tar@ksu.edu) with SMTP id MAA16247 for ; Tue, 27 May 1997 12:38:19 -0500 (CDT) Received: by cbs (SMI-8.6/1.34) id MAA25273; Tue, 27 May 1997 12:38:17 -0500 Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 12:38:17 -0500 (CDT) From: "Dave Alan Coon (:" X-Sender: dcoon@cbs.ksu.ksu.edu To: socgrad@csf.colorado.edu cc: Sociology Graduate Students -- International Subject: Re: Sociology of Everyday Life In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII How about George Ritzer's McDonaldization of Society (Pine Forge Press) and Ritzer's "Expressing America, a Critique of the GLobal Credit Card Society" ? These two sources are more about Sociology IN Everyday Life rather than sociology OF everyday life, but they are a great way for students to realize that sociology is a very valuble tool for analyzing what is going on around the. I imagine that you should use phenomeonlogy quite a bit in a couse about Sociology OF everyday Life... Sincerely, David Coon http://www-personal.ksu.edu/~dcoon MA Student & Graduate Teaching Asst. Dept. of Sociology, Anthropology, & Social Work http://www.ksu.edu/sasw/ Kansas State University From m.hoover@csu-e.csuohio.edu Tue May 27 12:00:36 1997 Received: from csu-e.csuohio.edu (csu-e.csuohio.edu [137.148.5.27]) by csf.Colorado.EDU (8.7.6/8.7.3/CNS-4.0p) with SMTP id MAA12855 for ; Tue, 27 May 1997 12:00:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from myhost.csuohio.edu (gradstud1.asic.csuohio.edu [137.148.25.41]) by csu-e.csuohio.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id OAA03633 for ; Tue, 27 May 1997 14:00:28 -0400 Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 14:00:28 -0400 Message-Id: <199705271800.OAA03633@csu-e.csuohio.edu> X-Sender: m.hoover@popmail.csuohio.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: socgrad@csf.colorado.edu From: Matthew Hoover Subject: Re: Sociology of Everyday Life Phil Manning is my professor here at CSU, his email address is p.manning@csuohio.edu. He is the one responsible for my interest in social theory and especially Erving Goffman. >Hi Matt, > > Thanks for the suggestions. I am still tinkering, and may try to >incorporate such classics. I also like Phil Manning and his work; in >fact, years ago, he and I played softball together (I was a grad student >and he was a post-doc at Wisconsin Madison); what I most remember about >this is everyone yelling at him to hold his bat up, not down like a >cricket bat. But as a Brit from Cambridge, that was how he held his bat > > Take care > > Tom From lklein@uhavax.hartford.edu Tue May 27 13:38:34 1997 Received: from uhavax.hartford.edu (uhavax.hartford.edu [137.49.1.150]) by csf.Colorado.EDU (8.7.6/8.7.3/CNS-4.0p) with SMTP id NAA18421 for ; Tue, 27 May 1997 13:38:32 -0600 (MDT) From: lklein@uhavax.hartford.edu Received: by uhavax.hartford.edu (MX V4.2 VAX) id 43; Tue, 27 May 1997 15:35:14 EDT Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 15:35:14 EDT To: socgrad@csf.colorado.edu Message-ID: <009B4E3C.08E54880.43@uhavax.hartford.edu> Subject: Re: Sociology of Everyday Life The Managed Heart was authored by Arlie Hochschild. You might also want to look at her other book entitled "The Second Shift." Her latest book on the relationship between work and family continues an interesting analytical thread examining individuals and their environment. Lloyd Klein From tombrown@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu Tue May 27 14:32:28 1997 Received: from jhuml2.hcf.jhu.edu (jhuml2.hcf.jhu.edu [128.220.2.87]) by csf.Colorado.EDU (8.7.6/8.7.3/CNS-4.0p) with ESMTP id OAA20480 for ; Tue, 27 May 1997 14:32:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu by jhmail.hcf.jhu.edu (PMDF V5.0-7 #13870) id <01IJDCY0DEDS94DTS7@jhmail.hcf.jhu.edu> for socgrad@csf.colorado.edu; Tue, 27 May 1997 16:31:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu by jhmail.hcf.jhu.edu (PMDF V5.0-7 #13870) id <01IJDCXY386694DQ2U@jhmail.hcf.jhu.edu> for socgrad@csf.colorado.edu; Tue, 27 May 1997 16:31:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu by jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu id <1014-1>; Tue, 27 May 1997 16:30:53 -0400 Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 16:30:42 -0400 From: Thomas F Brown Subject: Re: Sociology of Everyday Life To: socgrad@csf.colorado.edu Message-id: <97May27.163053edt.1014-1@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu> Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT I don't remember where I read this, but it seems that the style of wearing a baseball cap turned backwards may have originated in the gay subculture of Greenwich Village as a means of communicating sexual preferences. This little factoid might fit in with your unit on clothing styles. It's not terribly consequential, but it's fun to toss it into the discussion and rock those jocks back a notch or two. From slw@U.Arizona.EDU Tue May 27 14:44:46 1997 Received: from aruba.u.arizona.edu (aruba.U.Arizona.EDU [128.196.137.30]) by csf.Colorado.EDU (8.7.6/8.7.3/CNS-4.0p) with ESMTP id OAA21018 for ; Tue, 27 May 1997 14:44:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (slw@localhost) by aruba.u.arizona.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id NAA78102 for ; Tue, 27 May 1997 13:42:16 -0700 Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 13:42:14 -0700 (MST) From: Susan L Wenger To: Sociology Graduate Students -- International Subject: Arlie Hochschild In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Tue, 27 May 1997, Jean Czerlinski wrote: > * The Managed Heart, by ___. (Sorry, I'm bad on names today.) > This is a story of how flight attendants are trained, especially how they > are taught to manage their emotions and always look happy no matter how > frustrating things get. The customer is always right, etc.. But at what > cost to the flight attendants' themselves? The name of the author is Arlie Hochschild. Selections from _The Managed Heart_ would be good for a class like this. There are good, interesting insights, and undergrads will appreciate that she's a good read. Speaking of Hochschild, has anyone read her new book, _The Time Bind_? I just finished it and liked it a lot. Her research on employees working at all levels of a supposedly "family-friendly" corporation is a kind of sequel to _The Second Shift_. _Time Bind_ doesn't have as many new theoretical insights as _Second Shift_ did, but it explores some of the questions left unanswered by the first book and leaves the reader with a more complete understanding of the dynamics and tensions between work and family. Anyone interested in or teaching a course in the sociology of gender, work, or family should read it. I'm very psyched about the prospect of teaching it to my Soc of Gender class this summer. --Susan From tombrown@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu Tue May 27 14:47:38 1997 Received: from jhuml2.hcf.jhu.edu (jhuml2.hcf.jhu.edu [128.220.2.87]) by csf.Colorado.EDU (8.7.6/8.7.3/CNS-4.0p) with ESMTP id OAA21145 for ; Tue, 27 May 1997 14:47:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu by jhmail.hcf.jhu.edu (PMDF V5.0-7 #13870) id <01IJDDET7V0094DTVI@jhmail.hcf.jhu.edu> for socgrad@csf.colorado.edu; Tue, 27 May 1997 16:46:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu by jhmail.hcf.jhu.edu (PMDF V5.0-7 #13870) id <01IJDDESQ8AS94DQ2U@jhmail.hcf.jhu.edu> for socgrad@csf.colorado.edu; Tue, 27 May 1997 16:44:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu by jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu id <11-6>; Tue, 27 May 1997 16:44:31 -0400 Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 16:44:26 -0400 From: Thomas F Brown Subject: Re: Social Psychology To: socgrad@csf.colorado.edu Message-id: <97May27.164431edt.11-6@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu> Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT TR, thanks for the list of "alternative" social psychologies. I would add one more: the work and personality school of structural marxist social psychology, which examines the effects of class and stratification position on personality. From venise@gatepoly.co.ck Tue May 27 15:11:14 1997 Received: from papaioea.manawatu.gen.nz (papaioea.manawatu.gen.nz [202.36.148.67]) by csf.Colorado.EDU (8.7.6/8.7.3/CNS-4.0p) with SMTP id PAA21560 for ; Tue, 27 May 1997 15:11:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by papaioea.manawatu.gen.nz (8.6.12/8.6.12) with UUCP id IAA28144 for socgrad@csf.colorado.edu; Wed, 28 May 1997 08:51:09 +1200 Received: from gatepoly.co.ck. ([192.168.0.84]) by gatepoly.co.ck (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id JAA02619 for ; Tue, 27 May 1997 09:42:13 -1000 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19970526214344.00690f84@gatepoly.co.ck> X-Sender: venise@gatepoly.co.ck Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 09:43:44 +1200 To: socgrad@csf.colorado.edu From: Venise Subject: Re: Sociology of Everyday Life At 18:55 27/05/97 +0200, you wrote: >I don't know exactly what soc. of everyday life is, but here are two >possibly relevant books: > >* Habits of the Heart, by a group of people including Ann Swidler. >A history and survey, cultural style with interviews, of how Americans >choose to live their lives. How much does career matter? How much does >family matter? From where does one get one's identity (e.g. being in >clubs)? > >* The Managed Heart, by ___. (Sorry, I'm bad on names today.) >This is a story of how flight attendants are trained, especially how they >are taught to manage their emotions and always look happy no matter how >frustrating things get. The customer is always right, etc.. But at what >cost to the flight attendants' themselves? > > >Best of luck with your course, > >Jean > >Jean Czerlinski >Max Planck Institute > for Psychological Research > > The author of this book is Arlie Russell Hochschild and it is excellent. She writes clearly and mamages to convey what she is trying to without bombarding you with jargon and incomprehensible babble. From MMREDL0@UKCC.UKY.EDU Tue May 27 15:13:18 1997 Received: from UKCC.uky.edu (ukcc.uky.edu [128.163.1.170]) by csf.Colorado.EDU (8.7.6/8.7.3/CNS-4.0p) with SMTP id PAA21585 for ; Tue, 27 May 1997 15:13:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from UKCC.UKY.EDU by UKCC.uky.edu (IBM VM SMTP V2R3) with BSMTP id 4380; Tue, 27 May 97 17:12:35 EDT Received: from ukcc.uky.edu (NJE origin MMREDL0@UKCC) by UKCC.UKY.EDU (LMail V1.2a/1.8a) with BSMTP id 9988; Tue, 27 May 1997 17:12:36 -0400 Date: Tue, 27 May 97 17:08:21 EDT From: Meredith Subject: Re: Sociology of Everyday Life To: socgrad@CSF.COLORADO.EDU In-Reply-To: Message-Id: <970527.171235.EDT.MMREDL0@ukcc.uky.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Re: reading list for Soc of everyday life--I'm not sure all that you're covering either, and the list looks good. I've had success here with using Simmel--in particular, his "profile" essays, the adventurer, stranger, etc.-- in classes with similar students. Also, his "time/space" essays on the city, at the art museum, etc. Given the mix of contemporary theoretical persepctives you're trying to combine, Simmel might a strong "classical" base to use as well... Meredith Redlin UK From repko@server.uwindsor.ca Tue May 27 21:05:57 1997 Received: from naps.uwindsor.ca (dns.uwindsor.ca [137.207.232.1]) by csf.Colorado.EDU (8.7.6/8.7.3/CNS-4.0p) with SMTP id VAA04189 for ; Tue, 27 May 1997 21:05:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: tid XAA29836; Tue, 27 May 1997 23:05:59 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: naps: Host server.campus.uwindsor.ca claimed to be server.uwindsor.ca Received: from ibm-compatible (c1s0m16.student.uwindsor.ca [137.207.2.27]) by server.uwindsor.ca (950413.SGI.8.6.12/950213.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id XAA19402 for ; Tue, 27 May 1997 23:05:31 -0400 Message-ID: <338BA1E0.6A1@server.uwindsor.ca> Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 23:09:20 -0400 From: dave repko Reply-To: repko@server.uwindsor.ca MIME-Version: 1.0 To: socgrad@csf.colorado.edu Subject: Re: Sociology of Everyday Life References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit thomas conroy wrote: > > I'm going to be teaching a course at nearby Wheelock College in the > `Sociology of Everyday Life' this Fall, and have put together the > following reading list. This is a tentative list at the moment, and I am > wondering what others think about it: has anyone taught any of these > readings before? Are there suggestions about what I should add, or what > How about Erving Goffman - Frame Analysis:An Essay on the Organization of Experience From TR.Young@uvm.edu Wed May 28 05:50:31 1997 Received: from smtpgate.uvm.edu (smtpgate.uvm.edu [132.198.101.121]) by csf.Colorado.EDU (8.7.6/8.7.3/CNS-4.0p) with SMTP id FAA23212 for ; Wed, 28 May 1997 05:50:29 -0600 (MDT) Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 05:50:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 8N9J6 (208.18.225.2) by smtpgate.uvm.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1a) with SMTP id <0.CE7D4550@smtpgate.uvm.edu>; Wed, 28 May 1997 7:50:27 -0400 Message-Id: <1.5.4.16.19970528075009.0ed7e8de@pop.uvm.edu> X-Sender: tryoung@pop.uvm.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: socgrad@csf.colorado.edu From: TR Young Subject: Structural Social Psychology Yes; Tom Brown is correct: the correlates of class and social psychology are many and profound...from Marx' famous dictum that one's position in the social order determines/shapes one's ways of thinking, feeling, doing and being. This view is, of course, congenial to the Meadian dictum that mind, self and society are twin- born...except in most soc/psych texts, Mead is sanitized with examples/data drawn from homogenous middle class social life. In a Structural Marxist Social Psychology, human 'nature' changes as one changes one's position in the structures of class, race, gender and age...to mention just of few of the larger/macro-societal structures out of which come understandings, opinions, beliefs, interpretations and pre-dispositions to act. When one is 'promoted' from worker to foreman; from professor to Chair; from private to corporal, ways of thinking and acting shift dramatically. So much for genes, early socialization and physiological theories of criminal or saintly behavior. In a word, morality is located as much in the sociology of it all as in the psychology of it all. Yet one always retains some shifting responsibility for one's own actions; soldiers who rape and loot in wartime; police who beat and batter minorities in racist societies; actors who tout and push commodities in market societies--all these are at some level of moral culpability, responsible for the evil they do. Thank, Tom, TR At 04:44 PM 5/27/97 -0400, you wrote: >TR, thanks for the list of "alternative" social psychologies. >I would add one more: the work and personality school >of structural marxist social psychology, which examines >the effects of class and stratification position on personality. > > > > TR Young The Red Feather Institute 8085 Essex, Weidman, Mi., 48893 [517] 644 3089 Email: tr@tryoung.com From sampson@soc.umass.edu Wed May 28 06:45:55 1997 Received: from rfd1.oit.umass.edu (rfd1.oit.umass.edu [128.119.175.4]) by csf.Colorado.EDU (8.7.6/8.7.3/CNS-4.0p) with ESMTP id GAA25452 for ; Wed, 28 May 1997 06:45:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from oitvms.oit.umass.edu (austen.oit.umass.edu) by rfd1.oit.umass.edu (PMDF V5.1-8 #20973) with ESMTP id <0EAW64G4000MQN@rfd1.oit.umass.edu> for socgrad@csf.colorado.edu; Wed, 28 May 1997 08:45:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [198.70.41.29] (slipnet29.FOUR.net) by oitvms.oit.umass.edu (PMDF V5.0-6 #6523) id <01IJEAYJOX9A96VK0V@oitvms.oit.umass.edu> for socgrad@csf.colorado.edu; Wed, 28 May 1997 08:45:18 -0400 Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 08:45:32 -0500 From: sampson@soc.umass.edu (Dave Sampson) Subject: Re: Sociology of Everyday Life X-Sender: sampson@frost.oit.umass.edu To: socgrad@csf.colorado.edu Message-id: <01IJEAYTC2MS96VK0V@oitvms.oit.umass.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT >On Tue, 27 May 1997, Jean Czerlinski wrote: > >> * The Managed Heart, by ___. (Sorry, I'm bad on names today.) >> This is a story of how flight attendants are trained, especially how they >> are taught to manage their emotions and always look happy no matter how >> frustrating things get. The customer is always right, etc.. But at what >> cost to the flight attendants' themselves? Tom, In a similar vein, you might want to look at the article "Working at the Rat" from the Project on Disney's _Inside the Mouse_ (1995?). One part of this long essay in particular-subtitled "Shiny Happy People"-does a good job using first hand accounts to portray the experience(s) of being a "cast member" at Disney World. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ David Sampson Department of Sociology University of Massachusetts Amherst sampson@soc.umass.edu From conroyt@bu.edu Wed May 28 11:20:14 1997 Received: from acs5.bu.edu (ACS5.BU.EDU [128.197.154.50]) by csf.Colorado.EDU (8.7.6/8.7.3/CNS-4.0p) with ESMTP id LAA05553 for ; Wed, 28 May 1997 11:20:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from conroyt@localhost) by acs5.bu.edu (8.8.4/) id NAA120723; Wed, 28 May 1997 13:17:30 -0400 Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 13:17:29 -0400 (EDT) From: thomas conroy Sender: thomas conroy Reply-To: thomas conroy Subject: Re: Sociology of Everyday Life To: dave repko cc: Sociology Graduate Students -- International In-Reply-To: <338BA1E0.6A1@server.uwindsor.ca> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Firstly, I want to thank all who have been posting additions to this thread. Please keep them coming. On Tue, 27 May 1997, dave repko wrote: > How about Erving Goffman - Frame Analysis:An Essay on the Organization > of Experience Actually, I am already planning on using a chapter from Goffman's Relations in Public. I would be hesitant to use Frame Analysis, even though some of his conceptions are insightful (as always), for a number of reasons. For one, it's massive, and I don't want to overwhelm a class of freshmen with an unduly heavy reading load. Also, I want to be a bit more eclectic, combining Goffman, SI, Ethno, phenomenology and critical theory. I also think that in some ways, Frame Analysis is a bit more parasitic than usual on ethnomethodology and phenomenology; indeed, some have claimed that it represents Goffman's "answer" to Garfinkel. Whatever one's interpretation of it though, I'm just not sure that it would be the best way of introducing lower level undergraduates to Goffmanian analysis. I think, instead, that a rich example or two, along with his interpretations, will have a much greater impact. Tom Conroy From cassell@frosty.irss.unc.edu Wed May 28 12:40:32 1997 Received: from frosty.irss.unc.edu (frosty.irss.unc.edu [152.2.32.82]) by csf.Colorado.EDU (8.7.6/8.7.3/CNS-4.0p) with SMTP id MAA07149 for ; Wed, 28 May 1997 12:40:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from cassell@localhost) by frosty.irss.unc.edu (8.6.12/8.6.10) id OAA17649; Wed, 28 May 1997 14:39:23 -0400 Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 14:39:22 -0400 (EDT) From: Jim Cassell To: sos-data@frosty.irss.unc.edu, Sociology Graduate Student Discussion Subject: Forwarded mail.... Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII FYI - Jim ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ James Cassell Institute for Research in Social Science e-mail: cassell@irss.unc.edu University of North Carolina Ph: 919/962-0782 Fx: 919/962-4777 Chapel Hill, NC 27599-3355 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 16:45:30 -0400 From: Carl Schmertmann To: demographic-list@postbox.anu.edu.au CALL FOR PAPERS AND PROPOSALS 1997 Southern Demographic Association Annual Meetings in Orlando, Florida, September 25-27 (Thursday through Saturday). This year's annual meeting of the Southern Demographic Association will be held in Orlando, Florida, September 25-27, at the Travelodge Hotel in the Disney World Complex. SDA invites submissions from all interested individuals on demographic topics. We encourage paper submissions as well as proposals from individuals to organize sessions, roundtables, software demonstrations, panel discussions, or workshops. SDA welcomes graduate student participation. Students can submit papers to present and can request to be considered for the Student Paper Award, which honors the best paper presented at the meeting and pays $100. Students who wish to be considered for the award should submit an abstract by the June 15 deadline and a complete paper by August 15. The deadline for submitting program ideas and paper abstracts is June 15. Please send your information to: Rick Rogers Population Program Campus Box 484 University of Colorado Boulder, CO 80309 Phone: 303-492-2147 Email: Richard.Rogers@Colorado.edu Fax: 303-492-6924 ------------------------------------------------------------------ Carl Schmertmann Dept of Economics & Ctr for the Study of Population Florida State University Tallahassee FL 32306-4063 USA Ph +1 904 644 7100 Fax +1 904 644 8818 Email schmertmann@fsu.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------ From jmote@pewtrusts.com Thu May 29 08:43:49 1997 Received: from pewtrusts.com (pewtrusts.com [204.242.21.3]) by csf.Colorado.EDU (8.7.6/8.7.3/CNS-4.0p) with SMTP id IAA26812 for ; Thu, 29 May 1997 08:43:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from PEW-Message_Server by pewtrusts.com with Novell_GroupWise; Thu, 29 May 1997 10:46:33 -0500 Message-Id: Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 09:40:30 -0500 From: "Jonathon E. Mote" To: socgrad@csf.colorado.edu Subject: Part VII: Postmodern Criminology -Reply TR Young wrote-- >I use the new sciences of chaos and complexity with which to sort out >the dynamics of crime, change, class and other topics of interest to >sociology. I would be interested in hearing from others how prevalent this approach is in contemporary sociology. I am more familiar with the application of these approaches in economics, particularly the work being undertaken by folks at the Sante Fe Institute. It seems to me that chaos and complexity have been taken up by disciplines (like literary criticism, for example) other than where they originated, and are being applied with little thought about the implications. In fact, these approaches entail a much higher order of formalization, particularly in a modeling context, than usual linear and non-linear tools. Also, chaos and complexity are still characterized by an assumption of ergodicity, that is, that systems have a tendency towards stochastic probabilistic outcomes. Since such formalization has made economics rather sterile, I was surprised to see someone advocate for the unqualified use of chaos and complexity in this forum. The *language* of the two approaches is certainly intriguing and descriptive, but I can't help thinking that, to a certain extent, it is older ideas simply being gussied up in new scientismic language. Jonathon E. Mote jem@pewtrusts.com From lev@bloomington.in.us Thu May 29 12:51:19 1997 Received: from kirkwood.hoosier.net (kirkwood.hoosier.net [206.106.64.12]) by csf.Colorado.EDU (8.7.6/8.7.3/CNS-4.0p) with ESMTP id MAA13840 for ; Thu, 29 May 1997 12:51:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (lev@localhost) by kirkwood.hoosier.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id NAA29760; Thu, 29 May 1997 13:49:56 -0500 Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 13:49:56 -0500 (EST) From: P Kayak X-Sender: lev@kirkwood.hoosier.net Reply-To: P Kayak To: Jill Ann McCorkel cc: Sociology Graduate Students -- International Subject: Re: Forms/Levels of Inequality In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Am glad you said that. The language of "private" was getting out of balance. The private is not in all cases, Hobbsian disorder. Certain people could be reminded, the public is not either. On Tue, 27 May 1997, Jill Ann McCorkel wrote: > It seems to me that you are conflating "private" with "non-social"--are > you suggesting that gender oppression, for example, is not > institutionalized in the "private" sphere of family and personal > relations? What would constitute a non-social form of oppression and > concomintanly, inequality? Are you taking up a functional analysis to > distinguish social from the non-social? > > Jill McCorkel > University of Delaware > > > some forms of inequality were helpful to the > > human project: here is my reply. TRY - Paul "To have doubted one's first principles is the mark of a civilized man." |_Nine Stories_byJDSalinger=**** - O W Holmes From lisa.bohannan@ssc.msu.edu Thu May 29 12:55:44 1997 Received: from ssc.msu.edu (ssc.msu.edu [35.8.65.2]) by csf.Colorado.EDU (8.7.6/8.7.3/CNS-4.0p) with SMTP id MAA14131 for ; Thu, 29 May 1997 12:55:42 -0600 (MDT) From: lisa.bohannan@ssc.msu.edu Received: by ssc.msu.edu; Thu, 29 May 97 14:59:56 EDT Date: Thu, 29 May 97 14:58:32 EDT Message-ID: X-Priority: 3 (Normal) To: socgrad@csf.colorado.edu Subject: Need hotel room at RSS? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Hiya folks, Anyone want to share a room at RSS? One of my office mates is looking for someone to split the cost with her. You can email me direct, I'll pass on the info to her. Lisa Bohannan dept of sociology * 316 berkey hall * michigan state univ. * east lansing, mi 48824 tel: 517-355-5048 * fax: 517-432-2856 email: lisa.bohannan@ssc.msu.edu From Lantz1@midwest.net Thu May 29 14:22:27 1997 Received: from cdale3.midwest.net (cdale3.midwest.net [204.248.40.16]) by csf.Colorado.EDU (8.7.6/8.7.3/CNS-4.0p) with ESMTP id OAA17136 for ; Thu, 29 May 1997 14:22:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from lantz.home.uni.edu (marion27.midwest.net [206.158.71.27]) by cdale3.midwest.net (8.7.3/8.6.9) with ESMTP id PAA13138 for ; Thu, 29 May 1997 15:25:30 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199705292025.PAA13138@cdale3.midwest.net> Reply-To: From: "Glen Lantz" To: Subject: Poverty as a social problem Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 15:22:47 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I am looking for references on class differences on the perception of poverty as a social problem. does anyone have any suggestions? Glen L. Lantz lantz1@midwest.net Southern Illinois University "Civilization is the lamb's skin in which barbarism masquerades." T.B. Aldrich From dcoon@ksu.edu Thu May 29 16:50:08 1997 Received: from mailhub.cns.ksu.edu (grunt.ksu.ksu.edu [129.130.12.17]) by csf.Colorado.EDU (8.7.6/8.7.3/CNS-4.0p) with ESMTP id QAA22023 for ; Thu, 29 May 1997 16:50:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from nbc (dcoon@nbc.ksu.ksu.edu [129.130.12.5]) by mailhub.cns.ksu.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5/mailhub+tar@ksu.edu) with SMTP id RAA07284 for ; Thu, 29 May 1997 17:50:03 -0500 (CDT) Received: by nbc (SMI-8.6/1.34) id RAA16346; Thu, 29 May 1997 17:50:01 -0500 Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 17:50:00 -0500 (CDT) From: "Dave Alan Coon (:" X-Sender: dcoon@nbc.ksu.ksu.edu To: socgrad@csf.colorado.edu cc: Sociology Graduate Students -- International Subject: Re: Poverty as a social problem In-Reply-To: <199705292025.PAA13138@cdale3.midwest.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII How about using a Social Problems textbook... Sincerely, David Coon http://www-personal.ksu.edu/~dcoon MA Student & Graduate Teaching Asst. Dept. of Sociology, Anthropology, & Social Work http://www.ksu.edu/sasw/ Kansas State University