From leden@ccs.carleton.ca Fri Sep 2 08:41:58 MDT 1994 >From leden@ccs.carleton.ca Fri Sep 2 08:41:57 1994 Received: from alfred.ccs.carleton.ca (alfred.ccs.carleton.ca [134.117.1.1]) by csf.Colorado.EDU (8.6.9/8.6.9/CNS-3.5) with SMTP id IAA07971; Fri, 2 Sep 1994 08:41:55 -0600 Received: from superior.ccs.carleton.ca by alfred.ccs.carleton.ca (4.1/SMI-4.0) id AA09742; Fri, 2 Sep 94 10:43:09 EDT From: leden@ccs.carleton.ca (Lorraine Eden) Received: by superior.ccs.carleton.ca (4.1/Sun-Client) id AA28941; Fri, 2 Sep 94 10:43:07 EDT Message-Id: <9409021443.AA28941@superior.ccs.carleton.ca> Subject: Re: ISA discussant needed To: ipe@csf.colorado.edu Date: Fri, 2 Sep 94 10:43:07 EDT Cc: wsn@csf.colorado.edu (World Historical Systems Network), Lorraine_Eden@ccs.carleton.ca (Lorraine Eden), pew@csf.colorado.edu (PEW electronic email network), isaconf@ukanvm.cc.ukans.edu (1995 ISA Conference Program Chairs) In-Reply-To: ; from "Tony Porter" at Sep 1, 94 8:40 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Tony Porter writes: > > > A panel which I have organized for the International Studies Association > meeting in Chicago next February has had its chair and discussant > disqualified due to an ISA rule prohibiting anyone from having more than > two places on the program. I am therefore looking for replacements. The > topic is the relationship between private and inter-state regimes. Any > suggestions would be welcome. Please email them directly to me at the > address in the header or to tporter@mcmaster.ca. > > Thanks > Tony Porter > > Just a note to say that this is happening to several ISA panels. Evidently people submitted [1] the same paper abstract to more than one panel, and it got accepted for both, or [2] agreed to do more than two things on the program [the limit generally is two] and are now being bumped. If you would like to be a chair or discusssant there may be some room opening up, as has occured on Tony's panel. Please email a short CV, stating your interests and willing to chair and/or discuss in these particular areas to: Deborah Gerner and Philip Schrodt ISA Program Co-chairs email address: isaconf@ukanvm.cc.ukans.edu thanks, Lorraine Eden, IPE section president, ISA ------------- Lorraine Eden Professor of International Affairs The Norman Paterson School of International Affairs Carleton University 1125 Colonel By Drive Ottawa, Ontario K1S 5B6 CANADA Phone 613-788-2600x6661 Fax 613-788-2889 Email leden@ccs.carleton.ca 6$4?X, o"]F]_Ii]~2m/ _CZAfr RQy From DFAHEY@MIAMIU.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU Mon Sep 5 08:05:27 MDT 1994 >From DFAHEY@MIAMIU.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU Mon Sep 5 08:05:26 1994 Received: from MIAMIU.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU (miamiu.acs.muohio.edu [134.53.7.2]) by csf.Colorado.EDU (8.6.9/8.6.9/CNS-3.5) with SMTP id IAA25483 for ; Mon, 5 Sep 1994 08:05:26 -0600 Message-Id: <199409051405.IAA25483@csf.Colorado.EDU> Received: from MIAMIU by MIAMIU.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with BSMTP id 7839; Mon, 05 Sep 94 10:06:48 EST Received: from MIAMIU (DFAHEY) by MIAMIU (Mailer R2.08) with BSMTP id 0180; Mon, 05 Sep 94 10:06:47 EST Date: Mon, 05 Sep 94 10:03:30 EST From: David Fahey Subject: AFRICAN HISTORY JOB(S To: WSN@CSF.COLORADO.EDU Miami Univ., Oxford, OH 45056, USA, had two African history jobs: (1) visiting assistant professor (Jan.-May 1995), apply to Allan Winkler and (2) tenure-track assistant professor,subsaharan only, apply to Drew Cayton , to begin Aug. 1995. ***David Fahey (Miami)*** From mbhatia@arts.adelaide.edu.au Tue Sep 6 08:08:20 MDT 1994 >From mbhatia@arts.adelaide.edu.au Tue Sep 6 08:08:18 1994 Received: from esf.Colorado.EDU (esf.Colorado.EDU [128.138.173.17]) by csf.Colorado.EDU (8.6.9/8.6.9/CNS-3.5) with ESMTP id IAA22505; Tue, 6 Sep 1994 08:08:18 -0600 Received: from chomsky.arts.adelaide.edu.au (mbhatia@chomsky.arts.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.192.1]) by esf.Colorado.EDU (8.6.9/8.6.9/CNS-3.5) with SMTP id IAA09596; Tue, 6 Sep 1994 08:09:37 -0600 Received: by chomsky.arts.adelaide.edu.au (5.64+1.3.1+0.50+NF/UA-5.26) id AA21497; Tue, 6 Sep 1994 23:38:57 +0930 From: Manjit Bhatia Message-Id: <9409061408.AA21497@chomsky.arts.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Postdoc fellowships To: ipe@csf.colorado.edu Date: Tue, 6 Sep 1994 23:38:56 +0930 (CST) Cc: wsn@csf.colorado.edu X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL3] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Length: 2444 I am close to completing the first draft on my PhD thesis. The thesis is an imminent critique of neo-Gramscian IPE, in conjunction with the works of CSE and URPE folks on global capitalism and the nation state. My thesis, however, concentrates on East and Southeast Asia, taking a "broad picture" approach to problematising the political space of the nation state in the changing world political economy underscored by "economic globalisation". In particular, it seeks to delineate the break points in the interface between the nation state and the global economy which influence the changing form of the state and the exercise of state power. In the case of East and Southeast Asia, that analysis is located against the background of rampant industrialisation and economic growth. I take a critical political economy approach to the fusion or blurring of money capital and industrial capital since the Plaza Agreement and the contradictions this fusion generates for both global capitalism and for the nation state. I then draw implications for Asian regional integration and for the rise of a Pacific Century. I have two years left on my scholarship. But I am beginning to wonder about academic jobs in Australia - the lack of these. I would thus be grateful if anyone on the Net is able to help me with information on the possibility of picking up a postdoc fellowship in either Britain, US and Canada for a bloke who seeks to specialise on East and Southeast Asia. I am well versed in IR, IPE and Political Economy perspectives. I also have a tremendous interest in "critical" historical sociology and political-economic geography which informs much of my current work. Other interests include international finance, resource energy, global patterns of development and industrialisation, and global conglomerates. Any help appreciated, of course. -- Manjit Bhatia Graduate Student (PhD) Politics Department University of Adelaide Adelaide 5005 Australia mbhatia@chomsky.arts.adelaide.edu.au From leden@ccs.carleton.ca Wed Sep 7 18:56:34 MDT 1994 >From leden@ccs.carleton.ca Wed Sep 7 18:56:32 1994 Received: from esf.Colorado.EDU (esf.Colorado.EDU [128.138.173.17]) by csf.Colorado.EDU (8.6.9/8.6.9/CNS-3.5) with ESMTP id SAA10058; Wed, 7 Sep 1994 18:56:31 -0600 Received: from alfred.ccs.carleton.ca (alfred.ccs.carleton.ca [134.117.1.1]) by esf.Colorado.EDU (8.6.9/8.6.9/CNS-3.5) with SMTP id SAA14359; Wed, 7 Sep 1994 18:57:53 -0600 Received: from superior.ccs.carleton.ca by alfred.ccs.carleton.ca (4.1/SMI-4.0) id AA16875; Wed, 7 Sep 94 20:57:52 EDT From: leden@ccs.carleton.ca (Lorraine Eden) Received: by superior.ccs.carleton.ca (4.1/Sun-Client) id AA13765; Wed, 7 Sep 94 20:57:45 EDT Message-Id: <9409080057.AA13765@superior.ccs.carleton.ca> Subject: ISA nominations To: ipe@csf.colorado.edu (IPEnet), wsn@csf.colorado.edu (World Historical Systems Network), pew@csf.colorado.edu (PEW electronic email network) Date: Wed, 7 Sep 94 20:57:45 EDT Cc: Lorraine_Eden@ccs.carleton.ca (Lorraine Eden), louk@suvm.acs.syr.EDU X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Note to all ISA members: I am one of the members of the ISA Nominating Committee. Louis Kriesberg, Syracuse University, is chair [his email address is louk@suvm.syr.edu]. The committee is soliciting nominations for ISA president and three vice-presidents for 1996-97. The deadline for submitting nominations is October 1, 1994. Please send any nominations to Louis, or to me, or to any other member of the committee [Tsuneo Akaha, Linda Brady, Louis Goodman, Gail Osherenko] ASAP. A short note as to why you are recommending them would be helpful. Thanks, Lorraine Eden p.s. the full information is on the front page of the June/July ISA Newsletter. ------------- Lorraine Eden Professor of International Affairs The Norman Paterson School of International Affairs Carleton University 1125 Colonel By Drive Ottawa, Ontario K1S 5B6 CANADA Phone 613-788-2600x6661 Fax 613-788-2889 Email leden@ccs.carleton.ca From leden@ccs.carleton.ca Wed Sep 7 19:06:47 MDT 1994 >From leden@ccs.carleton.ca Wed Sep 7 19:06:46 1994 Received: from esf.Colorado.EDU (esf.Colorado.EDU [128.138.173.17]) by csf.Colorado.EDU (8.6.9/8.6.9/CNS-3.5) with ESMTP id TAA10290; Wed, 7 Sep 1994 19:06:45 -0600 Received: from alfred.ccs.carleton.ca (alfred.ccs.carleton.ca [134.117.1.1]) by esf.Colorado.EDU (8.6.9/8.6.9/CNS-3.5) with SMTP id TAA14503; Wed, 7 Sep 1994 19:08:06 -0600 Received: from superior.ccs.carleton.ca by alfred.ccs.carleton.ca (4.1/SMI-4.0) id AA17056; Wed, 7 Sep 94 21:07:59 EDT From: leden@ccs.carleton.ca (Lorraine Eden) Received: by superior.ccs.carleton.ca (4.1/Sun-Client) id AA14278; Wed, 7 Sep 94 21:07:52 EDT Message-Id: <9409080107.AA14278@superior.ccs.carleton.ca> Subject: IPE Senior Scholar at ISA 1995 To: ipe@csf.colorado.edu (IPEnet), wsn@csf.colorado.edu (World Historical Systems Network), pew@csf.colorado.edu (PEW electronic email network) Date: Wed, 7 Sep 94 21:07:52 EDT Cc: Lorraine_Eden@ccs.carleton.ca (Lorraine Eden), snid@cicero.spc.uchicago.edu (Duncan Snidal), isaconf@ukanvm.cc.ukans.edu (1995 ISA Conference Program Chairs) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Note to all ISA members: I am delighted to announce that the International Political Economy Distinguished Scholar award for 1995 will go to Robert Keohane of Harvard University. An outline of the IPE panel honouring Bob Keohane, which will be held as part of the ISA Convention in Chicago, February 21-25, 1995, follows. I hope you can all attend. After the session, there will be an IPE reception where members can meet the distinguished scholar, panel members, and other ISA members. Panel Chair: Duncan Snidal [Univ of Chicago] IPE Distinguished Scholar: Robert Keohane [Harvard] Participants: Helga Halftendorn [Free University of Berlin] Richard Higgott [Univ of Manchester] Peter Katzenstein [Cornell] Stephen Krasner [Stanford] Charles Lipson [Univ of Chicago] Respondent: Robert Keohane [harvard] -- Best wishes, Lorraine Eden, IPE section president, ISA ------------- Lorraine Eden Professor of International Affairs The Norman Paterson School of International Affairs Carleton University 1125 Colonel By Drive Ottawa, Ontario K1S 5B6 CANADA Phone 613-788-2600x6661 Fax 613-788-2889 Email leden@ccs.carleton.ca From mbhatia@arts.adelaide.edu.au Wed Sep 7 21:01:12 MDT 1994 >From mbhatia@arts.adelaide.edu.au Wed Sep 7 21:01:12 1994 Received: from chomsky.arts.adelaide.edu.au (chomsky.arts.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.192.1]) by csf.Colorado.EDU (8.6.9/8.6.9/CNS-3.5) with SMTP id VAA13475; Wed, 7 Sep 1994 21:01:06 -0600 Received: by chomsky.arts.adelaide.edu.au (5.64+1.3.1+0.50+NF/UA-5.26) id AA10586; Thu, 8 Sep 1994 12:31:47 +0930 From: Manjit Bhatia Message-Id: <9409080301.AA10586@chomsky.arts.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Cities & the New Global Economy - Conference To: ipe@csf.colorado.edu Date: Thu, 8 Sep 1994 12:31:47 +0930 (CST) Cc: wsn@csf.colorado.edu X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL3] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Length: 1329 "Cities and the New Global Economy". An international conference organised by the OECD and the Australian Government. The Regent Hotel (how appropriately bourgeois!), Melbourne, Australia. 20-23 November 1994. "As we move towards the new millennium, it is the relationship between urban centres that is emerging as a prime driver of global economic development. In the 21st Century the fate of cities will more than ever determine the well being of nations. With investment flows increasingly directed by regional and global competition between cities, urban policy is becoming an integral component of macro-economic strategy. Equally governments in both the industrialised and the developing world are now keenly aware that the social and environmental management of cities has economic and ecological impacts well beyond the boundaries of individual nation states." -- Manjit Bhatia Graduate Student (PhD) Politics Department University of Adelaide Adelaide 5005 Australia mbhatia@chomsky.arts.adelaide.edu.au From lgonick@mach1.wlu.ca Thu Sep 8 17:37:12 MDT 1994 >From CHRISCD@JHUVM.HCF.JHU.EDU Thu Sep 8 17:37:11 1994 Received: from JHUVM.HCF.JHU.EDU (jhuvm.hcf.jhu.edu [128.220.2.2]) by csf.Colorado.EDU (8.6.9/8.6.9/CNS-3.5) with SMTP id RAA09778 for ; Thu, 8 Sep 1994 17:37:10 -0600 Resent-Message-Id: <199409082337.RAA09778@csf.Colorado.EDU> Received: from JHUVM.HCF.JHU.EDU by JHUVM.HCF.JHU.EDU (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with BSMTP id 9810; Thu, 08 Sep 94 19:32:57 EDT Received: from JHUVM (NJE origin CHRISCD@JHUVM) by JHUVM.HCF.JHU.EDU (LMail V1.2a/1.8a) with BSMTP id 9809; Thu, 8 Sep 1994 19:32:57 -0400 Resent-Date: Thu, 08 Sep 94 19:32:41 EDT Resent-From: * PF03 UNDEFINED Resent-To: SYSTEMITES Received: from JHUVM (NJE origin JHUSMTP3@JHUVM) by JHUVM.HCF.JHU.EDU (LMail V1.2a/1.8a) with BSMTP id 6655; Thu, 8 Sep 1994 12:52:45 -0400 Received: from csf.Colorado.EDU by JHUVM.HCF.JHU.EDU (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with TCP; Thu, 08 Sep 94 12:52:43 EDT Received: from (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by csf.Colorado.EDU (8.6.9/8.6.9/CNS-3.5) with SMTP id KAA26548; Thu, 8 Sep 1994 10:50:20 -0600 Date: Thu, 8 Sep 1994 10:50:20 -0600 Message-Id: Reply-To: ipe@CSF.COLORADO.EDU Originator: ipe@csf.colorado.edu Sender: ipe@CSF.COLORADO.EDU Precedence: bulk From: "Lev S. Gonick" To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: New IPEnet Archive on Horn of Africa X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: INTERNATIONAL POLITICAL ECONOMY ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- NNS (NGO Networking Service) is a monthly newsletter from Addis Ababa covering many grassroots development from the Horn of Africa. NNS Notes and Position Papers are archived in the IPEnet under special arrangement between NNS Notes and IPEnet. NNS Notes can be found in both our Geographic_Archive (under africa) and in our Thematic_Archive under newsletters. To date there is a NNS position paper on Economic Structural Adjustment in the Horn of Africa and the August issue of Notes Update. ************************************ * Lev S. Gonick * * Internet: lgonick@mach1.wlu.ca * ************************************ From STEVEM@EINSTEIN.UNIPISSING.CA Thu Sep 8 18:10:38 MDT 1994 >From STEVEM@EINSTEIN.UNIPISSING.CA Thu Sep 8 18:10:38 1994 Received: from dns1.unipissing.ca (dns2.unipissing.ca [192.197.167.65]) by csf.Colorado.EDU (8.6.9/8.6.9/CNS-3.5) with SMTP id SAA10656 for ; Thu, 8 Sep 1994 18:10:37 -0600 Received: from smtpgate.unipissing.ca by dns1.unipissing.ca (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA11431; Thu, 8 Sep 1994 20:02:12 -0400 Received: by smtpgate.unipissing.ca with Microsoft Mail id <2E6FD250@smtpgate.unipissing.ca>; Thu, 08 Sep 94 20:11:12 PDT From: Steve Muhlberger To: "WSN (World systems)" Subject: Voll article in JWH Date: Thu, 08 Sep 94 20:10:00 PDT Message-Id: <2E6FD250@smtpgate.unipissing.ca> Encoding: 32 TEXT X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 I recently got a copy of the Journal of World History v. 5 n. 2 (because I have a review in it. I was interested to see an article by John Obert Voll on "Islam as a Special World-System." He argues that the existence of a post-Abbasid "discourse-based world-system" shows the limits of a world-system analysis based on "economic and material factors." It struck me that this article has a point, but seems to confuse things rather than clarify them. If Voll had said that "discourse" or "religion" can be factors that unify large parts of the world as effectively as economics, I would have no quarrel with him. But it seemed that he was drawing a contrast that was too absolute between Wallerstein's "capitalist" w-s (which by implication is concerned primarily with material things) and this earlier "discours-based" (Eastern and spiritual?) w-s. This comes awfully close to reviving ancient cliches about east and west. Think: for every person in the "west" who thought of himself as living in the capitalist world, there must have been hundreds who thought they lived in Christendom. A discourse-based w-s could be seen extending from the medieval monasteries and universities of Europe to the missionary compounds of the 19th century, not to mention our very own present century and year. Any one else have any comments? &&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&& Steve Muhlberger Department of History Nipissing University North Bay, Ont. P1B 8L7 (705) 474-3461 ext 4458 STEVEM@EINSTEIN.UNIPISSING.CA &&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&& From mbhatia@arts.adelaide.edu.au Thu Sep 8 19:32:54 MDT 1994 >From mbhatia@arts.adelaide.edu.au Thu Sep 8 19:32:53 1994 Received: from chomsky.arts.adelaide.edu.au (chomsky.arts.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.192.1]) by csf.Colorado.EDU (8.6.9/8.6.9/CNS-3.5) with SMTP id TAA13201; Thu, 8 Sep 1994 19:32:51 -0600 Received: by chomsky.arts.adelaide.edu.au (5.64+1.3.1+0.50+NF/UA-5.26) id AA18077; Fri, 9 Sep 1994 11:03:36 +0930 From: Manjit Bhatia Message-Id: <9409090133.AA18077@chomsky.arts.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Cities & New Global Economy Conference To: ipe@csf.colorado.edu Date: Fri, 9 Sep 1994 11:03:36 +0930 (CST) Cc: wsn@csf.colorado.edu X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL3] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Length: 5893 A number of folks have responded to the Cities and the New Global Economy conference to be held in Australia late November 1994. First of all, the conference is to be held in MELBOURNE, not Adelaide (nothing much ever happens in Adelaide, except for the Formula One Grand Prix, and even that will be hosted in Melbourne beginning 1995). Second, the organisers for the conference are the Australian Government and the OECD. Third, I have been provided a complete colour brochure of the conference, and will be happy to send those interested a xerox copy (black-and-white, I'm afraid!), if you'd care to send me your snail-mail addresses. Fourth, the following is an outline of the Conference programme: Nov. 20: Registration and Orientation. Tours/field visits available to major urban initiatives such as redevelopment of former industrial sites, port areas, city infrastructure systems development, etc. Cities of the Asia Pacific Exhibition and bourgeois cocktail party (might well include caviar). Dinner at the Regent Hotel, and keynote address. Nov. 21: The Changing Global Economic Environment and Cities Morning: Cities in the Global Economic Environment Afternoon: Economic and Urban Linkages - Cities and the Global Economy - Productivity and Economic Growth; - Corporate Decision-Making and Investment - Urban Hierarchies and Networks - Economic and Social Development and Urbanisation - Urban Governance Evening: State Reception (more caviar and champagne, I imagine). Nov. 22: Adaptation and Competitiveness Morning: The Evolving City Afternoon: How Cities Adapt - Cultural Diversity and Economic Development - Infrastructure and Productivity - Urban Environments - Creative Clusters and Competition - Design and Planning - Shaping and Polishing - Cities and Developing Economies Evening: Conference Dinner Nov. 23: Cities into the 21st Century Morning: Developing Strategies - Roles and Responsibilities - Urban Development Projects Closing Plenary: The Resurgent City in an International Economy Confirmed Speakers (as at June 1994): Olena Berg, Assistant Secretary, Dept of Labor, USA Frank Blount, CEO, Telecom Australia Michael Cohen, Chief, Urban Affairs Div., World Bank Choe Sang-Chuel, President, Seoul Development Inst. Lynn Curtis, President, Eisenhower Foundation Tommy Firman, Bandung Inst. of Technology, Indonesia Ed Glaeser, Economist, Harvard University Peter Hall, Author, World Cities & Cities of Tomorrow, UK Hartarto, Minister for Industry & Trade, Indonesia Stuart Hornery, Chairman, Lend Lease Corp., Australia Morjorie Jouen, Cellule de Prospective, EU Klaus Kunzman, Urbanist, Dortmund University Dorodjatun Kuntjoro Jakti, Inst. for Economic & Social Research, Indonesia Kyu Sik Lee, Principal Economist, Urban Affairs Div., World Bank Lim Lan Yuan, National University of Singapore Liu Thai Ker, Former CEO & Chief Urban Planner, Singapore Rodrigo Lopes, City of Rio de Janeiro, Brazil Pasqual Maragall, Mayor of Barcelona, Spain Om Prakash Mathur, National Inst. of Public Finance & Policy, India Don Mercer, President, Coalition of Service Industries, and CEO, Australia-New Zealand Bank, Australia Kenichi Ohmae, McKinsey & Co., Japan Peter Petrie, Advisor to Governor, Bank of England John Prescott, CEO, BHP Co., Australia Hugh Price, VC, Rockefeller Foundation Remy Prud'Homme, Economist, University of Paris Ngee Huat Seek, Managing Director. JLW Advisory Services, Australia Pierre Vinde, Dep Sec-General, OECD John Zetter, Chairman, Group on Urban Affairs, OECD Mike Stegman, Asst Sec., Dept of Housing & Urban Dev, USA Deyan Sudjic, Author, The 100 Mile City, UK Additional Speakers from China, Canada, France, Finland, Hongkong, Malaysia, Nigeria, Philippines, Thailand and Vietnam being finalised. Registration: "Early Bird" (before 7 Oct): AUD850 Standard Registration (after 7 Oct): AUD950 Accompanying Person: AUD200 For further information on the Conference: The Meeting Planners 108 Church Street Hawthorn, Victoria, 3122 Australia Tel: 61-3-819 3700 Fax: 61-3-819 5978 -- Manjit Bhatia Graduate Student (PhD) Politics Department University of Adelaide Adelaide 5005 Australia mbhatia@chomsky.arts.adelaide.edu.au From CHRISCD@JHUVM.HCF.JHU.EDU Tue Sep 13 09:28:12 MDT 1994 >From CHRISCD@JHUVM.HCF.JHU.EDU Tue Sep 13 09:28:12 1994 Received: from JHUVM.HCF.JHU.EDU (jhuvm.hcf.jhu.edu [128.220.2.2]) by csf.Colorado.EDU (8.6.9/8.6.9/CNS-3.5) with SMTP id JAA01924 for ; Tue, 13 Sep 1994 09:28:03 -0600 Message-Id: <199409131528.JAA01924@csf.Colorado.EDU> Received: from JHUVM.HCF.JHU.EDU by JHUVM.HCF.JHU.EDU (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with BSMTP id 3608; Tue, 13 Sep 94 11:28:54 EDT Received: from JHUVM (NJE origin CHRISCD@JHUVM) by JHUVM.HCF.JHU.EDU (LMail V1.2a/1.8a) with BSMTP id 3607; Tue, 13 Sep 1994 11:28:53 -0400 Date: Tue, 13 Sep 94 11:28:47 EDT From: CHRISCD@JHUVM.HCF.JHU.EDU To: wsn@CSF.COLORADO.EDU ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- JOB ANNOUNCEMENT! The Department of Political Science at Drake University invites applications for a tenure track position in international relations starting August 15, 1995. Position availability is dependent on budgetary approval. Applicants should be able to teach introductory and advanced courses in international relations in addition to sharing responsibility for the introductory course in American politics. Specializations of interest include international organization, international law, international security and defense policy, conflict resolution and peace studies. A secondary specialty in comparative politics is desirable but not essential. A Ph.D. is preferred but ABDs close to completion will be considered. Drake University is a medium sized, private institution with a six-course (ignore last word) six member Political Science Department offering undergraduate degrees in political science and international relations. The normal teaching load is three courses per semester. Salary and benefits are competitive. Drake is an Affirmative Action/Equal Opportunity employer and welcomes applications from women and minorities. The deadline for application is October 15. Applicants should provide a letter of application, curriculum vitae, transcripts, three current letters of recommendation, and a sample of their writing to: David Skidmore, Search Committee Chair, Department of Political Science, Drake University, 2507 University Ave., Des Moines, IA 50311. From CHRISCD@JHUVM.HCF.JHU.EDU Tue Sep 13 12:53:18 MDT 1994 >From CHRISCD@JHUVM.HCF.JHU.EDU Tue Sep 13 12:53:17 1994 Received: from JHUVM.HCF.JHU.EDU (jhuvm.hcf.jhu.edu [128.220.2.2]) by csf.Colorado.EDU (8.6.9/8.6.9/CNS-3.5) with SMTP id MAA08855 for ; Tue, 13 Sep 1994 12:53:14 -0600 Message-Id: <199409131853.MAA08855@csf.Colorado.EDU> Received: from JHUVM.HCF.JHU.EDU by JHUVM.HCF.JHU.EDU (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with BSMTP id 7110; Tue, 13 Sep 94 14:54:06 EDT Received: from JHUVM (NJE origin CHRISCD@JHUVM) by JHUVM.HCF.JHU.EDU (LMail V1.2a/1.8a) with BSMTP id 7108; Tue, 13 Sep 1994 14:54:05 -0400 Date: Tue, 13 Sep 94 14:53:51 EDT From: chris chase-dunn Subject: geoculture To: systemites X-Comment: WORLD SYSTEMS NETWORK On Sept. 8 Steve Muhlberger wrote: I recently got a copy of the Journal of World History v. 5 n. 2 (because I have a review in it. I was interested to see an article by John Obert Voll on "Islam as a Special World-System." He argues that the existence of a post-Abbasid "discourse-based world-system" shows the limits of a world-system analysis based on "economic and material factors." It struck me that this article has a point, but seems to confuse things rather than clarify them. If Voll had said that "discourse" or "religion" can be factors that unify large parts of the world as effectively as economics, I would have no quarrel with him. But it seemed that he was drawing a contrast that was too absolute between Wallerstein's "capitalist" w-s (which by implication is concerned primarily with material things) and this earlier "discours-based" (Eastern and spiritual?) w-s. This comes awfully close to reviving ancient cliches about east and west. Think: for every person in the "west" who thought of himself as living in the capitalist world, there must have been hundreds who thought they lived in Christendom. A discourse-based w-s could be seen extending from the medieval monasteries and universities of Europe to the missionary compounds of the 19th century, not to mention our very own present century and year. Any one else have any comments? &&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&& Steve Muhlberger Department of History Nipissing University North Bay, Ont. P1B 8L7 (705) 474-3461 ext 4458 STEVEM@EINSTEIN.UNIPISSING.CA A response from Chris Chase-Dunn: Steve raises a number of issues regarding the relationship between geopolitics, economics and geoculture. The Voll piece in the _Jounral of World-History_ contends that the author means by the idea of a "discourse-based" system something different from what has been studied by most civilizationists, but it is not made clear exactly what that difference is. If it reduces the the idea that world-systems and civilizations are related to one another, that is not a very new idea. Of course all world-systems are importantly composed of networks of people who share languages and cultural values, and nearly all world-systems are composed of multiple cultures. The relationships between economic, political and intermarriage networks and cultural networks also varies systematically across world-system types. In some, especially small scale stateless systems cultural relations are much more important precisely because specialized economic and political/ military institutions do not exist separately from socially constructed kinship structures. The modern world-system has an important component of geoculture and this has been the primary focus of the institutionalist "world polity" school developed in sociology by John W. Meyer and his colleagues. A recent collection that discusses the interaction between the approach of civilizationists and world-systemists is a special issue of _Comparative Civilizations Review_ (Spring,1994) edited by Stephen Sanderson. Islam was a powerful ideological force for expanding and intensifying the trade and political/military networks of the Central World-System. See Alice Willard's piece in _Comp. Civs Rev._ (Spring, 1993). But I doubt that the world-system that Islam was part of was uniquely (or even unusually) based on discourse. Discourse works best in an egalitarian system. Hierarchy requires that discourse be backed up by either economic or political/military coercion. This point is relevant for all discussions of cultural imperialism in the modern world-system and for our understanding of how the cheapening of communications technology affects politics. chris chase-dunn chriscd@jhuvm.hcf.jhu.edu From mbhatia@arts.adelaide.edu.au Thu Sep 15 09:14:10 MDT 1994 >From mbhatia@arts.adelaide.edu.au Thu Sep 15 09:14:10 1994 Received: from chomsky.arts.adelaide.edu.au (chomsky.arts.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.192.1]) by csf.Colorado.EDU (8.6.9/8.6.9/CNS-3.5) with SMTP id JAA07365 for ; Thu, 15 Sep 1994 09:14:08 -0600 Received: by chomsky.arts.adelaide.edu.au (5.64+1.3.1+0.50+NF/UA-5.26) id AA08391; Fri, 16 Sep 1994 00:44:56 +0930 From: Manjit Bhatia Message-Id: <9409151514.AA08391@chomsky.arts.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Ex-USSR and Capitalist Imperialism To: wsn@csf.colorado.edu Date: Fri, 16 Sep 1994 00:44:56 +0930 (CST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL3] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Length: 853 Any views out there re. the notion that the collapse of the Former Soviet empire has a significant bearing on the validity of the theory of capitalist imperialism? Specifically, does the demise of the Soviet Union also cease to challenge the hegemony of (neoliberal) capitalism? Does it make Marxist studies of the evolution of global capitalism and capitalist imperialism more or less applicable in the post Cold War world? Would appreciate some thoughts... -- Manjit Bhatia Graduate Student (PhD) Politics Department University of Adelaide Adelaide 5005 Australia mbhatia@chomsky.arts.adelaide.edu.au From ATPKM@ASUVM.INRE.ASU.EDU Thu Sep 15 17:36:09 MDT 1994 >From ATPKM@ASUVM.INRE.ASU.EDU Thu Sep 15 17:36:09 1994 Received: from POST1.INRE.ASU.EDU (post1.INRE.ASU.EDU [129.219.13.83]) by csf.Colorado.EDU (8.6.9/8.6.9/CNS-3.5) with ESMTP id RAA25054 for ; Thu, 15 Sep 1994 17:36:07 -0600 Received: from ASUVM.INRE.ASU.EDU (MAILER@ASUACAD) by asu.edu (PMDF V4.2-13 #2382) id <01HH5C9UXHPS8X6ZM2@asu.edu>; Thu, 15 Sep 1994 16:41:34 MST Received: from ASUACAD (NJE origin ATPKM@ASUACAD) by ASUVM.INRE.ASU.EDU (LMail V1.1d/1.7f) with BSMTP id 5429; Thu, 15 Sep 1994 16:37:33 -0700 Date: Thu, 15 Sep 1994 16:28:23 -0700 (MST) From: "Patrick J. McGowan" Subject: Job in International Relations To: wsn@CSF.COLORADO.EDU Message-id: <01HH5C9UXRDE8X6ZM2@asu.edu> Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Acknowledge-To: ARIZONA STATE UNIVERSITY INTERNATIONAL RELATIONS The Department of Political Science seeks to appoint a tenure-track Assistant P rofessor in the area of international relations. We seek candidates who bring strong theoretical and analytical skills to bear upon questions of security and conflict at the global level, including questions of war and peace; arms contr ol and disarmament; transnational phenomena such as religious, ethnic, and res istance movements; state terrorism; and global ecology. A Ph.D. in Political S cience with an emphasis in international relations or a Ph. D. in International Relations is required by the time of employment, which begins August 16, 1995. The most promising candidates will demonstrate strong theoretical and analyti cal training and interests and will complement the department's currentinterna tional relations faculty. The application deadline is November 30, 1994 and th e 30th of every month thereafter until the position is filled. Arizona State i s an equal opportunity/affirmative action employer. Send a letter of applicati on stating research plans and teaching interests, a complete CV, graduate schoo l transcripts, three letters of recommendation, samples of research and writing to: Professor Sheldon Simon, Chair, International Politics Search Committee, D epartment of Political Science, Arizona State University, Box 872001, Tempe, AZ 85287-2001. AA/EOE. From s-collins@uchicago.edu Fri Sep 16 14:05:37 MDT 1994 >From s-collins@uchicago.edu Fri Sep 16 14:05:37 1994 Received: from midway.uchicago.edu (midway.uchicago.edu [128.135.12.73]) by csf.Colorado.EDU (8.6.9/8.6.9/CNS-3.5) with SMTP id OAA23166 for ; Fri, 16 Sep 1994 14:05:23 -0600 Received: from DialupEudora (cc-tip-1.uchicago.edu) by midway.uchicago.edu for wsn@csf.colorado.edu Fri, 16 Sep 94 15:06:24 CDT Message-Id: <9409162006.AA19358@midway.uchicago.edu> Date: Fri, 16 Sep 1994 15:10:30 -0600 To: Multiple recipients of the list From: s-collins@uchicago.edu (steven collins) X-Sender: scollins@midway.uchicago.edu Subject: Geoculture These are comments provoked by the remarks from Steve Muhlberger and Chris Chase-Dunn, a propos Voll's article in Journal of World History 5.2. on Islam as a discourse-based World System. I don't have access to Comparative Civilizations Review, so what I say may be old hat to some folks. However, (i) much of Voll is anticipated in Richard Eaton's 'Islamic History as Global History', in Michael Adas (ed) 'Islamic and European Expansion (1993). E.g. p.31, in a section headed 'Dar-al-Islam as a World System': '...historians of Islam are beginning to realize that in the post-thirteenth century period, Muslims also constructed a world system, but one radically different from that modeled on Homo oeconomicus'. And he explains Dar-al-Islam as 'the inhabited earth where Muslims predominated, or failing that, where Muslim authorities are in power and could uphold the Shari'a' (p.32). (ii) certain parts of this debate, surely, are trivial matters of definition: e.g. in one way Voll simply begs the question (in the logical sense) by assuming from the outset that there is an 'Islam' which is an 'historical entity'. Were such an entity to exist, it would have to be, by definition, in some respects at least a matter of discourse (I would say ideology). As always, it depends on what is being compared with what. The natural comparative 'entities' for Islam are Christianity and Buddhism (on which see below). If there was/is such a thing as a 'European' civ. or WS, then it should be compared with other geographically-defined civs. and/or Ws-s., not with 'Islam', which (if it exists) is in a different category of existent. Sometimes Voll isn't clear about this. (iii) but not all is trivial. Chris Ch-D is wrong, I think, to say that it is not clear how Voll's discourse-based world system differs from what has been studied by most civilizationists: Voll p. 217 says 'by the 16th. century the Islamic entity was an intercivilizational entity, not an 'autonomous "civilization".' What --as I understand it--differentiates the postulated WS from common-or-garden 'civilizations' is the inter-civilizational, inter-'national' network of institutions (tariqah, etc.) which provided a practical correlate for the indigenous (emic) notion of Dar-al-Islam (translated by Eaton and Voll as 'Abode of Islam', but literally, it seems 'House of...'). [By the way, I think the transition from the singular to the plural of 'civilization' involves a category-shift - in the singular it's something you can have more or less of, depending on varous factors, as with 'pastoralism', agrarianism', etc. (cf. Marshall Hodgson's 'citied agrarianate civilization); when it's pluralized it becomes instantly difficult to individuate what constitutes 'a' civilization, how 'it' is related to other examples of the genre, etc..] The way forward, I suggest, is not to argue about vaguely-defined familiar and large-scale referring terms, but to find empirical means of comparison and contrast. Thus, if there is or are to be one or more 'discourse-based' WS-s, then we need in each case at least (i) an emic term within a given ideology which designates/hypostatizes such an entity, and (ii) a pattern of material-practical institutions which, from an etic perspective, make of that 'entity' more than just a figment of the ideological imagination. In the case of Buddhism (about which, unlike everything else here discussed, I actually know something), one can, to be sure, point to many inter-civilizational commonalities, but only at the level of signifiers: e.g. Buddha-images, technical terms such as nirvana, and so on (the signifieds are wildly different). And there is not, so far as I can see, anything anywhere near as strong as Dar-al-Islam as a unifying inter-civilizational concept, although the network of monasteries did enable some travelers --such as the famous Chinese Hsuan-Tsang and others in the mid-first millenium A.D.-- to offer counterparts to Ibn Battuta. So although 'Buddhism' can obviously be said to be a pan-Asian 'religion', I don't think that a good case could be made for seeing it as a 'system' (World or otherwise). And what of Christianity? Webster's gives for 'Christendom' '2. the portion of the world in which Christianity prevails or which is governed principally by Christian institutions' (n.b. the similarity to Eaton's definition of Dar-al-Islam). OED has '3c. the countries professing Christianity taken collectively; the Christian domain', citing a use from 1389. (Note ibid. a vintage piece of narcissism from 1849: 'a Christendom, commensurate with and almost synonymous with the civilised world'!) And of course, as Steve M. mentions, the network of Christian monasteries --but only in Europe-- were analogous institutions to those Voll discusses, and on which --as I see it-- rests the plausibility of speaking of Islam as more than just an ideological 'system'. But they were too geographically rerstricted to constitute a WS, in my opinion. And it would need empirical work in each case to see what any given writer thought was contained within 'Christendom'. (E,g, 'not those damned Papists, to be sure; Russian Orthodoxy - what's that? Nestorians - who?') In the case of Islam, for me at any rate, what is needed is more information (e.g. did Sunni Muslims include Shi'as in the concept Dar-al-Islam, and vice-versa? Ismailis?), and perhaps just a shade more definitional debate. A preliminary and evidently superficial foray into the Encyclopedia of Islam produces the following. 'Dar' indeed means 'house', in a simple physical sense; it can be used with other terms, e.g. Dar-al-Darb, 'mint', Dar-al-Hadith 'House of Hadith' (i.e. where they were taught), Dar-al-Sina'a, 'industrial establishment'. The relevant term for the issue of Islam as a WS begins from a simple dichotomy: Dar-al-Islam = territory under Islamic law, and its complementary opposite Dar-al Harb, 'Land of War' = land not yet under it, and thus the potential object of jihad. For some rigorists, apparently, this was all that was needed, since it covered, conceptually, the entire earth; but the exigencies of historical life produced two 'intermediate' concepts: Dar-al-'Ahd, 'Land of the Covenant', where the people paid kharadj (a kind of tax, I assume), but were not yet subject to Islamic rule/law; and Dar-al-Sulh, 'House of Truce', territories which paid tribute and were guaranteed an armistice. So it seems to me that Eaton and Voll make a good preliminary case for talking of Islam as a (discourse-based) World System, given that the indigenous postulation of such a thing can be supported by practical, institutional facts which outsiders can recognise as concstituting a 'system'; but it doesn't follow, either by definition or empirically, that there has been more than that one example of the genre. The generalization of the concept of 'World System' from Wallerstein's modern-capitalist sense to the pre-modern period seems promising; but let's not make it a precipitate rush which obliterates all differences, conceptual and historical. Or something like that... Steve Collins Dept. of South Asian Languages and Civilizations University of Chicago From STEVEM@EINSTEIN.UNIPISSING.CA Sat Sep 17 08:44:08 MDT 1994 >From STEVEM@EINSTEIN.UNIPISSING.CA Sat Sep 17 08:44:07 1994 Received: from dns1.unipissing.ca (dns2.unipissing.ca [192.197.167.65]) by csf.Colorado.EDU (8.6.9/8.6.9/CNS-3.5) with SMTP id IAA13031 for ; Sat, 17 Sep 1994 08:44:06 -0600 Received: from smtpgate.unipissing.ca by dns1.unipissing.ca (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA08742; Sat, 17 Sep 1994 10:36:01 -0400 Received: by smtpgate.unipissing.ca with Microsoft Mail id <2E7B2B20@smtpgate.unipissing.ca>; Sat, 17 Sep 94 10:45:04 PDT From: Steve Muhlberger To: wsn@csf.colorado.edu Subject: Geoculture Date: Sat, 17 Sep 94 10:43:00 PDT Message-Id: <2E7B2B20@smtpgate.unipissing.ca> Encoding: 44 TEXT X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 Thanks to Steve Collins for a substantial discussion of the idea of discourse based world systems. What any preliminary claim that Islam as a discourse-based w-s is different in kind or significance from other possible d-b w-ss (esp. "Christendom") lacks is a clear measurement that would distinguish between claimants. One suggestion Steve C. makes is that although there may have been a network of Christian monasteries, because they only existed in Europe. But do w-ss have to be a certain size to be ws-s? My reading of Wallerstein, Chase-Dunn, and Gunder Frank (and others I may have forgotten) suggests that absolute size has little to do with it. If a discourse-based w-s is based on "indigenous postulation" and backed up by "practical, institutional facts which outsiders can recognize," then Christendom certainly qualifies as a very long-lived and adaptable discourse-based entity of great influence. It's not just monasteries, but universities, missionary movements, and World councils of churches. The discourse-based system is often made up of different parts, and there are sometimes important rivalries between the parts (but are these more serious than Shiite wars against "corrupt" Sunni regimes?), but both the imagination and the institutions are there. And often enough the area covered is very substantial indeed. In the 14th century the bishop of Beijing was on the papal chancery's "CC" list to receive all important papal pronouncements. In the late 19th century, Canadian Presbyterian capitalists plowed much of their gain (ill-gotten or otherwise) into evangelizing both Toronto slums and distant China. I have done research into the Social Gospel movement in Canada, and you could never tell any of those people (some of whom are still alive) that they weren't part of and working for Christendom (though they might no longer use just that word). I think Voll's distinction boils down to comparing a more superficial knowledge of an "exotic" culture, where internal differences mean less to the observer, to a more detailed knowledge of something nearer at hand, where differences (Catholic vs. Protestant; clergyman vs. capitalist) are more keenly felt. Can anyone make an argument based on a good knowledge of Buddhist ideology and practice? Let me just say now that all of Buddhism is one big sangha made up of a great many locally or regionally based sanghas. It is all one big brotherhood, practically articulated into smaller, working brotherhoods. Steve Muhlberger From fredr@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu Sat Sep 17 13:05:54 MDT 1994 >From fredr@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu Sat Sep 17 13:05:53 1994 Received: from relay1.Hawaii.Edu (relay1.Hawaii.Edu [128.171.41.53]) by csf.Colorado.EDU (8.6.9/8.6.9/CNS-3.5) with SMTP id NAA19214 for ; Sat, 17 Sep 1994 13:05:50 -0600 Received: from uhunix3.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu ([128.171.44.52]) by relay1.Hawaii.Edu with SMTP id <11416>; Sat, 17 Sep 1994 09:07:19 -1000 Received: by uhunix3.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu id <148497>; Sat, 17 Sep 1994 09:07:07 -1000 Date: Sat, 17 Sep 1994 09:06:51 -1000 From: Fred Riggs Subject: Re: Geoculture To: Steve Muhlberger cc: Multiple recipients of list In-Reply-To: <2E7B2B20@smtpgate.unipissing.ca> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Thanks to Steve Muhlberger for a most suggestive comment which also needs to be pursued in the WSN context--at least, as a newcomer to the network who is sometimes perplexed by the language in use--I'd like to raise some questions that are more conceptual than substantive. First, I like "geoculture"--it seems to be a transparent term but it's not in any of my dictionaries. Would a little clarification of the word be useful--I know what "culture" means (more or less) and "geography" sets spatial contexts. But are these the ideas combined in this neologism? if so, with what specific meaning? More importantly, the message makes me wonder what you mean by "system." Let me reproduce portions to make my reactions more specific: On Sat, 17 Sep 1994, Steve Muhlberger wrote: > What any preliminary claim that Islam as a discourse-based w-s is different > in kind or significance from other possible d-b w-ss (esp. "Christendom") > lacks is a clear measurement that would distinguish between claimants. > > One suggestion Steve C. makes is that although there may have been a network > of Christian monasteries, because they only existed in Europe. But do w-ss > have to be a certain size to be ws-s? My reading of Wallerstein, Chase-Dunn, > and Gunder Frank (and others I may have forgotten) suggests that absolute > size has little to do with it. If absolute size has littled to do with the notion of a "world-system"--e.g., pre-Cook Hawaii was, according to Chris-Dunn, a world-system--what is the defining characterist of a world-system (as distinct from, say, a "world system" in which, I gather, "world" means global or planetary. Was that not how this discourse got started--as in "World Politics," a notion that in the world today there is one planet-wide "system" which embraces the earth. But clearly there are all kinds of systems, as General Systems theory has demonstated. Even a plant or an animal may be viewed as a "system." Is one characteristic of a "world-system" that it can be bounded? If so, the network of subscribers to WSN is a world system--at least at any given moment its host computer can list all of its subscribers--of course, the number grows (or diminishes), so the boundaries exists only in a time-frame as well as a spatial (geo-) frame. > > If a discourse-based w-s is based on "indigenous postulation" and backed up > by "practical, institutional facts which outsiders can recognize," then > Christendom certainly qualifies as a very long-lived and adaptable > discourse-based entity of great influence. It's not just monasteries, but > universities, missionary movements, and World councils of churches. If a system is "discourse-based," then is discourse not enough to support the claim that it is a system? No doubt artifacts (buildings, products, artifacts) normally accompany such systems but are then necessary features? Normally birds fly, but not always--consider the ostrich. I would have thought that evidence for the existence of a discourse-based system would be "discourse," i.e. the exchange of ideas through language and communication. Is there, then, a "world-system community" which contains members who are not lucky enough to have modems and access to WSN? In academia there are today all kinds of intellectual discourse communities made up of chemists, astronomers, economists, historians, etc. No doubt some of them have their laboratories, observatories, departmental offices, etc. but some are relatively poor and lack such material resources. I am thinking of Sanscritists, a very lively discourse community of pundits to be found geo-centrically in India where they almost totally lack buildings simply because the Western oriented Universities deny them any space--they don't fit our paradigm of a "religion" or a "language" or a "culture" each of which is able to get some accomodations in a university. Nevertheless, according to Daya Krishna of Punjam University this is a very lively and influential kind of almost invisible "discourse community." Consider the Tibetan discourse community. It used to be very concretely identifiable geographically and it certainly had physical assets--a host of lamaseries with gorgeous buildings, innumerable practitioners, and a rich discourse. Today, this community has become globally dispersed and many of its properties and members have been "liquidated". You can find Tibetan believers and centers almost everywhere--even in Hawaii--and its leaders are normally, though not always, Tibetan. Many are non-Tibetan converts who study Tibetan and engage in a lively discourse--indeed, they are a truly planetary discourse community (except, perhaps, in China!). In addition to spiritual matters--the Dalai Lama addressed a very large multi-cultural audience in Hawaii not long ago, speaking only of spiritual matters, not about Tibet. Nevertheless, he has promulgated a "democratic" constitution to be actualized when he returns to power in Lhasa and one of the topics lamas outside Tibet like to discuss is how that constitution will actually work. Clearly there is a Tibetan discourse-based world-system (community). But perhaps most WSN subscribers would not agree. Do you? > The > discourse-based system is often made up of different parts, and there are > sometimes important rivalries between the parts (but are these more serious > than Shiite wars against "corrupt" Sunni regimes?), but both the imagination > and the institutions are there. And often enough the area covered is very > substantial indeed. In the 14th century the bishop of Beijing was on the > papal chancery's "CC" list to receive all important papal pronouncements. In > the late 19th century, Canadian Presbyterian capitalists plowed much of their > gain (ill-gotten or otherwise) into evangelizing both Toronto slums and > distant China. I have done research into the Social Gospel movement in > Canada, and you could never tell any of those people (some of whom are still > alive) that they weren't part of and working for Christendom (though they > might no longer use just that word). > Although their scale of operations differs vastly, I would guess that the defining characteristics of "Tibet andom" are the same as those of "Christendom." Since, as Wallerstein has said, size is not essential, what's the conceptual difference? Perhaps an important difference involves the degree of internal cleavage. My experience of Tibetans is that they are remarkably homogeneous--perhaps because they share a common enemy. No doubt there was one schism involving a tiny pro-Chinese faction, but they are well divided geographically. As are (or were) the Armenians--another global discourse-based diaspora community, sharing ancestry, a (largely-forgotten) language, a religion, and many cultural traditions. However, internal cleavages have been severe. First because the secularized and religious Armenians; more importantly between the pro and anti Soviet Armenians (like the Tibetans). With the collapse of the Soviet (world-system?) that cleavage has lost much of its weight--it is easier for anti-communist Armenians to accept Armenia as a "homeland". However, many still think that their true homeland can only be recreated at the expense of Turkey. Some of them have killed Turks to demonstrate this belief but--I am told--even more Armenians have been killed because of their internal schisms. So when Protestants and Catholics war against each other (as in Ulster), or when Shiites kill Sunnis, or vice versa, as in Iran and Iraq, the pattern is familiar. Every discourse community seems to have its rival "schools of thought"--perhaps even among "world-system" enthusiasts. If we admit the possibility of a "discourse-based" w-s, then should we not accept other criteria for w-ss? I suppose economics, and especially "capitalism" has been the presupposed basic if not only criterion, for much of the w-s literature. If I am wrong, please correct me. The widespread presence of diaspora traders among even the earliest civilizations suggests the existence of economic world-systems long before there were discourse-based systems of equal extent, geographically. The Romans and Chinese were involved in trade relationships at a time when each was virtually unaware of the other's existence. Tom Carney has used content analysis of classic texts to chart the world view of the Greeks and Romans. By spotting place names he could tell you the size of the geo-space writers of that time were aware of. I believe it never included China--and, had he done the same with Chinese texts during the Chin or Han empires, he would surely have encountered no mentions of Roman or Greek places. Is it not useful, therefore, to specify whether or when we are talking about a "discourse-based w-s" or a "trade-based w-s" or a "capitalist w-s."? If so, what kinds of w-ss are worthy of analysis, and how do they overlap or connect with each other? Systems theorists distinguish between "open" and "closed" systems. A truly planetary world-system is about as closed as we can imagine, but almost all sub-planetary world systems are surely open. Chinese empires tried to enclose their own world-systems by building great walls, but they were always aware of Mongols and other "barbarians" outside the walls--or they would scarcely have bothered to build them. Many "Chinese" empires were, of course, ruled by non-Chinese, including the latest, the Manchu (Ching) dynasty. Political scientists talk about "party systems" which, in the U.S., include rival parties, notably Democrats and Republicans. Are they "organizations," and if so, do they constitute "political systems." Who are the Democrats--those who are dues-paying party members or registered to vote in primaries, those who vote for Democratic candidates, or those who don't vote but sympathize with Democratic party goals? Or take a corporation--is there an AT&T system? If one includes everyone who uses AT&T to make phone calls, I would guess this is a truly planetary system. But if one includes only AT&T employees, it's a small system (like the Tibetans) but perhaps even more globally dispersed. When anyone speaks of a capitalist world system, my guess is that they have in mind a multi-dimensional system that includes not only capitalists but also consumers, suppliers, governments, cultures, religions, ethnic communities--just about everything. Is that true? If so, is this not also reductionist? When so many dimensions of life affect and are affected by other dimensions, should we try to explain all non-economic dimensions by the economic dimension? Should we not accept the idea that all dimensions affect each other and, surely, the means and relations of production are among the most powerful dimensions. But discourse, what we think and say, is also powerful and not just a "superstructure" or "false consciousness." Well, no doubt this puts me into one of the "schools of thought" and perhaps not a "correct" one. But I find it makes life more interesting for me, as a political scientist. But also, as a political economist, I want to see how economic forces influence political behavior, and also how political institutions, practices and beliefs shape economic forces. To me that is the essence of a "systems" approach--it postulates interdependence between all parts of a system, not necessarily the domination of one part over all the others. > Can anyone make an argument based on a good knowledge of Buddhist ideology > and practice? Let me just say now that all of Buddhism is one big sangha > made up of a great many locally or regionally based sanghas. It is all one > big brotherhood, practically articulated into smaller, working brotherhoods. > > Steve Muhlberger Thank you, Steve, for provoking this response--at least I enjoyed myself writing it and I hope you will find it interesting. As for Buddhism, as one who has lived in Thailand and China, I can certify that there has been intense rivalry between different kinds of Buddhists, not only Theravada vs. Mahayana, but also geoculturally, between Thai, Tibetan, Chinese, Japanese, Mongol and American Buddhists, and also by sectarian convictions, especially in Japan--something like Protestants. Incidentally, Methodists and Presbyterians fight each other in Korea, though not as violently as Catholics fight Protestants in North Ireland. At this micro-level, it seems clear that economic interest reinforces contention between sects, but political rivalry between leaders and, yes, ideological clashes between doctrines, all enter the complex equation. In praise of Lord Buddha, however, let me add that if everyone followed the "eight-fold path," all Buddhists would, indeed, see themselves as members of a single discourse community--as would all Christians if they observed the Golden Rule. If "geoculture" makes sense, why not "ethnodiscourse"? The cultural boundaries which divide discourse communities, not only religiously but also academically, linguistically, and geographically deserve to be examined in their "world-system" contexts. In praise of cosmo-discourse. Yours, Fred Riggs FRED W. RIGGS, Professor Emeritus Political Science Department, University of Hawaii 2424 Maile Way, Honolulu, Hawaii 96822, U.S.A. Phone: (808) 956-8123 Fax: (808) 956-6877 e-mail: FREDR@UHUNIX.UHCC.HAWAII.EDU From STEVEM@EINSTEIN.UNIPISSING.CA Sat Sep 17 14:26:41 MDT 1994 >From STEVEM@EINSTEIN.UNIPISSING.CA Sat Sep 17 14:26:40 1994 Received: from dns1.unipissing.ca (dns2.unipissing.ca [192.197.167.65]) by csf.Colorado.EDU (8.6.9/8.6.9/CNS-3.5) with SMTP id OAA20519 for ; Sat, 17 Sep 1994 14:26:39 -0600 Received: from smtpgate.unipissing.ca by dns1.unipissing.ca (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA11343; Sat, 17 Sep 1994 16:18:35 -0400 Received: by smtpgate.unipissing.ca with Microsoft Mail id <2E7B7B6A@smtpgate.unipissing.ca>; Sat, 17 Sep 94 16:27:38 PDT From: Steve Muhlberger To: wsn@csf.colorado.edu Subject: Re: Geoculture Date: Sat, 17 Sep 94 16:26:00 PDT Message-Id: <2E7B7B6A@smtpgate.unipissing.ca> Encoding: 25 TEXT X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 Thanks, Fred, for your discussion. I think maybe that you have made my point better than I did. If there are such a multitude of easily discernable discourse-based communities, then how can it be shown that the Islamic one is special, so special that it can be characterized as a world-system that unlike others was based on something other than homo economicus? Many could make that claim, and the same person could be part of more than one large community. E.g. Sir James Woods of Toronto, millionaire and Christian philantropist. What I objected to in Voll's article was the lack of analytical rigor. The same thing might be said of Wallerstein, too. You are wrong, Fred, when you say that world-systems must include a huge part of the world. I think W. coined the term in analogy to the older term, world-empire. The problem is that both world-empires and world-systems do not include the whole world (except perhaps very recently) -- they merely claim to be unique in nature, so as to deserve comparison with the whole world, to the exclusion of all the rest of the real world. Wallerstein made his claim for his world system without any effort to prove it by comparison to other systems -- at least without much effort. Wallerstein may have provoked a lot of interesting work, but he was just restating the case for European exceptionalism. With Voll, European exceptionalism is countered by a claim to Islamic exceptionalism, but once again, has any attempt at rigor been made? Or has an interesting thought been stated as a proven fact prematurely? Steve Muhlberger From P34D3611@JHUVM.HCF.JHU.EDU Sun Sep 18 00:13:02 MDT 1994 >From P34D3611@JHUVM.HCF.JHU.EDU Sun Sep 18 00:13:02 1994 Received: from JHUVM.HCF.JHU.EDU (jhuvm.hcf.jhu.edu [128.220.2.2]) by csf.Colorado.EDU (8.6.9/8.6.9/CNS-3.5) with SMTP id AAA29691 for ; Sun, 18 Sep 1994 00:13:00 -0600 Message-Id: <199409180613.AAA29691@csf.Colorado.EDU> Received: from JHUVM.HCF.JHU.EDU by JHUVM.HCF.JHU.EDU (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with BSMTP id 1226; Sun, 18 Sep 94 02:13:40 EDT Received: from JHUVM (NJE origin P34D3611@JHUVM) by JHUVM.HCF.JHU.EDU (LMail V1.2a/1.8a) with BSMTP id 1218; Sun, 18 Sep 1994 02:13:40 -0400 Date: Sun, 18 Sep 94 02:13:06 EDT From: Peter Grimes Subject: WST & culture To: wsn@CSF.COLORADO.EDU After just now reading the exchange between Muhlberger, Collins, and Riggs where the question of the definition of world- system & its boundaries is raised several times, I thought of tossing in the following. By coincidence, Chris Chase-Dunn & I have just finished writing a piece on W-S theory for the '95 edition of Annual Review of Sociology, in which we had to present a section on some of the current definitions competing in the literature. In light of the exchange about "cultural"/ideological communities vs world-systems, that section seemed particularly apropo. It starts by reviewing Wallerstein, but goes on to include contemporary debates. -Peter Grimes * * * What are world-systems? The modern world-system is a set of nested and overlapping interaction networks that link individuals, households, neighborhoods, firms, towns and cities, classes and regions, national states and societies, transnational actors, international regions and global structures. It is all of the economic, political, social and cultural relations among the people of the earth. Thus the world-system is not just "international relations" or the "world market." It is the whole interactive system, where the whole is greater than the sum of the parts. All boundaries are socially structured and socially reproduced, as are the identities of individuals, ethnic groups and nations. The main concepts of the world-systems perspective were developed in order to interpret the history of the modern world- system. A world-system was originally defined by Wallerstein as a multicultural territorial division of labor in the production and exchange of basic goods and raw materials that are necessary for everyday life. It is thus composed of culturally different societies that are vitally linked together through the exchange of food and raw materials. Wallerstein contrasts world-systems with allegedly earlier, smaller, "mini-systems" in which production and exchange took place within single culturally integrated groups. Within the category of world-systems there are two main types: "world-economies" in which the economic division of labor is politically structured as a system of multiple and competing polities; and "world-empires" in which the economic division of labor between core and periphery is encompassed by a single overarching polity. Wallerstein does not specify whether or not all world-systems have core/periphery structures. His emphasis on the importance of the economic division of labor in the exchange of basic foods and raw materials is meant to exclude the consideration of the exchange of luxury goods, which Wallerstein calls "preciosities." He argues that the exchange of luxury goods is not important for systemic dynamics and therefore that spatial links based on the exchange of luxury goods should not be used to spatially bound world-systems. Regarding the spatial bounding of world-systems, Wallerstein contends that the mode of production (e.g. capitalism, tributary modes) should be used to distinguish between different systems. Thus, according to Wallerstein, the Ottoman Empire and India were not part of the European modern world-system until the nineteenth century because they were not yet predominantly capitalist, while capitalism had already emerged to predominance in the sixteenth century Europe-centered world-system. Alternative definitions of the world-system concept have emerged in more recent work with the effort to study change over longer periods of time, and to compare the modern system with earlier, smaller systems. Andre Gunder Frank and Barry Gills (1993:106) define world systems as follows: The transfer or exchange of economic surplus is the fundamental criterion of a world systemic relationship. Diplomacy, alliances, and conflict are additional, and perhaps derivative, criteria of systemic interaction. Following the lead of Jane Schneider (1977) and other anthropologists, Frank and Gills contend (contra Wallerstein) that the exchange of luxury goods is also important for the reproduction of local social structures. Thus, networks of the exchange of prestige goods should be used to bound world systems, and the Europe-centered system studied by Wallerstein becomes then redefined as a regional part of a much larger Afroeurasian world system. Frank and Gills use this widened concept to study the continuities that they see in the system that emerged out of Mesopotamia with the birth of cities and states five thousand years ago. Chase-Dunn and Hall (1993:855) widen the world-system concept even further. They define world-systems as intersocietal networks in which the interactions (e.g. trade, warfare, intermarriage) are important for the reproduction of the internal structures of the composite units and importantly affect changes that occur in these local structures. This approach was designed to facilitate comparisons between the modern global system with earlier, smaller intersocietal systems. Chase-Dunn and Hall separate the definition of the world-system concept from the existence of states and core/periphery relations. This revised conceptual apparatus makes it possible to examine structural differences as well as similarities between different types of world-systems. Very small systems of egalitarian hunter-gatherers (lacking both states and a core/periphery hierarchy) can be analytically compared with the modern global system, and the long-term processes of historical evolution can be studied using world-systems as the unit of analysis. Regarding the spatial bounding of world-systems Chase-Dunn and Hall (1993:860) contend that different kinds of interaction may be more or less important in different systems, and that different sorts of interaction may have different spatial characteristics. They propose a model of nested networks in which bulk goods exchanges are spatially restricted by transport costs to a small region, political/military interactions occur over a larger territory, and prestige goods exchanges are the largest important interaction networks. For any particular group it is the whole nested network with which it is interconnected that constitutes its "world-system." Systemic interaction is understood as regularized such that the connected actors come to depend and form expectations based on the connections. The use of data for spatially bounding world-system interactions is still in its infancy. The best work has been done by David Wilkinson (1987,1991) who studies the boundaries of political/military interaction networks (PMNs). Wilkinson conceptualizes "world systems/civilizations" primarily in terms of military alliances and conflicts among a group of states in a region. Using this type of interconnection Wilkinson produces a spatio-temporal map of the expansion of "Central Civilization", the world-system that was formed by the merging of the Mesopotamian and Egyptian world-systems in the fifteenth century BCE. Wilkinson shows how twelve regional world-systems became engulfed by the expanding Central system. He also discusses the boundaries of the larger "trade oikumene" and its expansion (Wilkinson,1992,1993). This is equivalent to the "prestige goods network," the largest network in Chase-Dunn and Hall's nested conceptualization of system boundaries.  From s-collins@uchicago.edu Mon Sep 19 09:32:50 MDT 1994 >From s-collins@uchicago.edu Mon Sep 19 09:32:49 1994 Received: from midway.uchicago.edu (midway.uchicago.edu [128.135.12.73]) by csf.Colorado.EDU (8.6.9/8.6.9/CNS-3.5) with SMTP id JAA02103 for ; Mon, 19 Sep 1994 09:32:43 -0600 Received: from DialupEudora (cc-tip-1.uchicago.edu) by midway.uchicago.edu for wsn@csf.colorado.edu Mon, 19 Sep 94 10:33:59 CDT Message-Id: <9409191533.AA21609@midway.uchicago.edu> Date: Mon, 19 Sep 1994 10:38:10 -0600 To: Multiple recipients of the list From: s-collins@uchicago.edu (steven collins) X-Sender: scollins@midway.uchicago.edu Subject: Geoculture, World systems and whatnot The section from the 1995 Annual Review of Sociology piece posted by Peter Grimes is very useful, and introduces some badly needed specificity into the discussion. The precise point in the evolution of the uses of the concept 'World System(s)' at which Eaton's and Voll's remarks about Islam enter is this (p.2): 'Chase-Dunn and Hall... define WS-s as intersocietal networks in which the interactions (e.g. trade, warfare, intermarriage) are important for the reproduction of the internal structures of the component units and importantly affect changes that occur in these local structures'. The Eaton/Voll suggestion about Islam, at least as I understand it, is that the material-pragmatic network of tariqah-s, and of Sufi institutions more widely, provides an example of such interactions in 'intersocietal networks', with both internal/local and cross- civilizational importance. They interlink with --and often bring about-- patron-client relationships in a patterned, continuous (hereditary) way. Here as elsewhere a vocabulary of friendship, devotion, commitment, etc., which can seem to moderns to be voluntary and individual in fact describes and prescribes something traditional and stable. And obviously such networks have all manner of economic and other practical functions and effects; and these can remain in place through various different levels of political organization (state, empire, disorder verging on statelessness, etc.) as they change over time. Such a network (and the discourse which it grounds) seems to me to provide, prima facie, a form of patterned and institutionalized interaction which remains within the conceptual orbit of the 'material exchanges and economic dimensions of social systems' on which Wallerstein (Voll p.219 and note 12) rightly insists. I have no special reason to want Islam to be seen as a special 'discourse-based' WS. My own interest in all this is from the angle of the social-cultural history of Buddhism, in South and Southeast Asia primarily, and specifically of forms of its discourse which are apparently universal in scope, but which of course were produced in a world of co-existence and boundedness. In the real world of intersocietal and intercultural contact, most obviously through trade, and its intrasocial importance, which the work of Schneider, Frank and Gills, et al. (cf. Helms, 'Ulysses' Sail') highlights, such material-pragmatic plurality and coexistence is particularly strikingly juxtaposed with the closed and unitary world projected by certain religious discourses. (In using the vocabulary of religious vs. pragmatic worlds here I am thinking, in part, of Maurice Bloch's 'The Past and the Present in the Present'.) And it seems to me that Eaton (especially) and Voll (to a lesser extent) are on to something relevantly useful in the Islamic case. It does seem to me that in the premodern world Islam, in its geographical location and spread, has a special claim on our attention in these matters. Yes, Christian monasteries and, to a lesser extent, universities in medieval Europe were a very important intersocietal fact; and so, if this is an acceptable use of the concept of WS, then call it that. But in that case to call something a WS is to say very little about its historical specificity. 'Christendom' only extended over a similarly large --'world- wide'--territory as did Islam during the period of, and within the process of, early modern and modern European expansion: missionaries as court jesters and magicians in the (economic, not political) capitalist empire, so to speak. Steve Collins. From STEVEM@EINSTEIN.UNIPISSING.CA Mon Sep 19 09:53:57 MDT 1994 >From STEVEM@EINSTEIN.UNIPISSING.CA Mon Sep 19 09:53:56 1994 Received: from dns1.unipissing.ca (dns2.unipissing.ca [192.197.167.65]) by csf.Colorado.EDU (8.6.9/8.6.9/CNS-3.5) with SMTP id JAA02875 for ; Mon, 19 Sep 1994 09:53:55 -0600 Received: from smtpgate.unipissing.ca by dns1.unipissing.ca (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA08954; Mon, 19 Sep 1994 11:45:47 -0400 Received: by smtpgate.unipissing.ca with Microsoft Mail id <2E7DDE7A@smtpgate.unipissing.ca>; Mon, 19 Sep 94 11:54:50 PDT From: Steve Muhlberger To: wsn@csf.colorado.edu Subject: Geoculture, World systems and whatnot Date: Mon, 19 Sep 94 11:54:00 PDT Message-Id: <2E7DDE7A@smtpgate.unipissing.ca> Encoding: 16 TEXT X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 Steve Collins dismisses "missionaries as court jesters and magicians in the (economic, not political) capitalist empire, so to speak." This remains to be proved, i.e., I'd like to see some reasonably objective measure that missionaries, bishops, and theologians in Europe were any more peripheral than the Islamic scholars everyone is so fond of, and that religion or "discourse" was less important in the European sphere than it was in the Islamic. Steve Muhlberger From CHRISCD@JHUVM.HCF.JHU.EDU Tue Sep 20 18:00:22 MDT 1994 >From CHRISCD@JHUVM.HCF.JHU.EDU Tue Sep 20 18:00:22 1994 Received: from JHUVM.HCF.JHU.EDU (jhuvm.hcf.jhu.edu [128.220.2.2]) by csf.Colorado.EDU (8.6.9/8.6.9/CNS-3.5) with SMTP id SAA27957 for ; Tue, 20 Sep 1994 18:00:21 -0600 Message-Id: <199409210000.SAA27957@csf.Colorado.EDU> Received: from JHUVM.HCF.JHU.EDU by JHUVM.HCF.JHU.EDU (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with BSMTP id 7079; Tue, 20 Sep 94 20:01:05 EDT Received: from JHUVM (NJE origin CHRISCD@JHUVM) by JHUVM.HCF.JHU.EDU (LMail V1.2a/1.8a) with BSMTP id 7075; Tue, 20 Sep 1994 20:01:04 -0400 Date: Tue, 20 Sep 94 20:00:55 EDT From: CHRISCD@JHUVM.HCF.JHU.EDU To: WSN@CSF.COLORADO.EDU ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- in some way, i am glad that this long-overdue discussion on the 'discourse-based' world system has ensued, although it may only lead to another set of terminological obfuscations/limits. for me, the important point about tthe idea od 'discourse' is not whether it provides an adequate 'measure' of the scope of any system of interactions, but rather that it provides a different (not necessarily superior or inferior) way of seeing. the idea of a 'system' seems to me to presuppose an analytical preference for 'objectively' assessing its existence from without , using economic and other historical data (but primarily economic ones). on the other hand, the notion of 'discourse' seems to entail a more experimental way of looking, wherby an effort is made to assess how whatever 'system' or body of interactons was there could have possibly been viewed by people involved. for this reason, i don't think it matters whether we call it a discourse- based 'world system', even though discourse could be what legitmates suhc a system. rather, we have here a historically expanding network of interdependencies and associations on the one hand, and a cultural effort to endow such associations with trans-local meaning on the other. the two processes do not necessarily have to have the same territoorial reach. the ntoion of dar al-islam , for instance, did not refer to a self-enclosed universe that had no interactions with its ideological nimesis. in the travels of ibn battuta, for instance, the mongol invasion of the eastern frontiers of dar al-islam is shown as a justifibale act on the part of mongol tribes, after they were blocked from westbound trade routes by muslim rulers in persia. this justification, offered from a muslim point of view, is extremely significant, i think, and goes against much of what we tend to accept in terms of the homogeneity of world outlook presupposed in a notion like 'the muslim world'. for ibn battuta, at least in this respect, the function of the muslim government consisted, among 'other things, of safeguarding communication and trade beyond dar al-islam proper. in parts of central asia, he even reports on intermittent multicultural markets which brought together muslims and others whose identities are not only unknown, but who culd very well have been 'ghosts and djinn.' thus, what was dar al-islam? i tend to think of it not as a world system, for it was never self-enclosed or free from significant cebtrifugal forces. rather, it seems to be that it is best thought of as a scheme of identification. if you had to travel for months, even years on trade expeditions within the premodern world systems, you had a disproportionate interest in a number of cultural categories that made the world a more predictable place, that established trustworthiness among people from vastly distant quarters, that involved expected rules of behavior, hospitality, and discharge of duties and obligations. unlike christianity, from its inception islam was a religion of traders (although it is not only so, or it did not evolve exclusively along these lines; the poiuint, however, is that it did include in its holy book as well as in the traditions, legal and otherwise, that emanated from it, a signifivant number of terms and regulations governing trade. it should not also be forhgotten that mecca, the cradle of islam, was a city that had built its wealth, even before muhammed, to a substantial degree on long-distance trade). this element of identification is central to the idea of islam as one discursive contour along which at least one of the dimensiosn of an emerging world system take shape. further evidence for this can be seen in the trade-based spread of islam along the saharan trade route into western africa, whereby it gradually replaced local animism at every point of the route. here, a 'world religion' becomes a sign for increasing engulfment in a lareger system whose tentacles reach distant, abstract regions and participants. thus in an inverse fashion, one can think of locally-relevant animism as the kind of discourse that signifies self-sufficiency, (which i ahve looked at in this fashion at more length in a recent monograph; see 'transnationalism,' in current sociology, 41 (3), 1993). the point of looking at 'discourse' as a basis for systemic structues or trends is that one needs to bandon some conceptual, 'objectivistic' habits for ths ake of discourse-anslysis; this, for me, means an investigation or an orientation that would hightlight not pure economic data and such abstractions, but actual narratyives+, travels, etc that at least partally reveal how thw 'world' was understood from the perspectiuve of participants in that system mohammmed bamyeh sociology univ. of massachusetts lowell, ma 01854 bamyehm@woods.uml.edu From CHRISCD@JHUVM.HCF.JHU.EDU Tue Sep 20 18:59:28 MDT 1994 >From CHRISCD@JHUVM.HCF.JHU.EDU Tue Sep 20 18:59:27 1994 Received: from JHUVM.HCF.JHU.EDU (jhuvm.hcf.jhu.edu [128.220.2.2]) by csf.Colorado.EDU (8.6.9/8.6.9/CNS-3.5) with SMTP id SAA29664 for ; Tue, 20 Sep 1994 18:59:26 -0600 Message-Id: <199409210059.SAA29664@csf.Colorado.EDU> Received: from JHUVM.HCF.JHU.EDU by JHUVM.HCF.JHU.EDU (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with BSMTP id 0561; Tue, 20 Sep 94 21:00:01 EDT Received: from JHUVM (NJE origin CHRISCD@JHUVM) by JHUVM.HCF.JHU.EDU (LMail V1.2a/1.8a) with BSMTP id 0560; Tue, 20 Sep 1994 20:58:19 -0400 Date: Tue, 20 Sep 94 20:39:44 EDT From: CHRIS CHASE-DUNN Subject: GEOCULTURE To: SYSTEMITES Thanks to Mohammed Bamyeh for pointing out the link between the spread of Islam and trade. A more general approach to this is Phillip Curtin's _Crosscultural Trade in World History_ (Cambridge UP, 1984). Curtin formulates the concept of a "trade diaspora." In some systems a particular ethnic group specializes in cross cultural (long distance) trade. Members of the same ethnicity take up residence in enclaves within distant locations and specialize in carrying goods across cultural boundaries. This enables traders to carry on long distance and long duration trust relationships with members of their own kin networks. World religions do the same thing by creating a different form of solidarity based on discourse, using the same words and concepts to signify trust relationships. This is especially important in a world of radical differences among cultures that are engaged in trade with one another. As Curtin points out, eventually a "trade ecumene" emerges in which the participating cultures come to share enough common concepts to enable trading without the mediation of trade diasporas. At that point specialized trading groups are no longer needed. This said, a trade ecumene need not be a system that is primarily normatively regulated (by consensus about rules). It is only necessary to agree on certain basic rules about exchange and contract, but not necessary to agree on everything. Regulation in the modern world-system is not primarily normative, though it is undoubtedly the case that there is more norma tive regulation than there used to be. the forms of regulation that rule the modern world-system are primarily the coercive elements that derive from geomilitary cooperation and conflict, and the forces that derive from the world market. these do have normative bases but they do not require consensus in the way that truly normative systems do. I tried to explain this in a comparative framework in Chapter 5 of _Global Formation_. chris chase-dunn From wxhst3+@pitt.edu Wed Sep 21 12:44:32 MDT 1994 >From wxhst3+@pitt.edu Wed Sep 21 12:44:31 1994 Received: from pop.pitt.edu (pop.pitt.edu [136.142.185.27]) by csf.Colorado.EDU (8.6.9/8.6.9/CNS-3.5) with SMTP id MAA25339 for ; Wed, 21 Sep 1994 12:44:30 -0600 Received: from unixs2.cis.pitt.edu by pop.pitt.edu with SMTP id AA02428 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4.5 for ); Wed, 21 Sep 1994 14:46:03 -0400 Date: Wed, 21 Sep 1994 14:46:02 -0400 (EDT) From: Bill Haller Subject: RE geoculture discussion: Islam, Arabic, and discourse To: wsn Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Having read something on the particular importance of the art of language in Arabic culture and how and that appreciation spread with Islam I have been looking for mention of that in this discussion of Voll's article. Since I haven't seen that in the discussion (even on a cursory review of my accumulated email) I decided to look up what I had read and share it. The following is one paragraph from __The Religions of Man__ by one of my past teachers, Huston Smith. As you may surmise from the gender-specific title, this book was first published decades ago. Unfortunately, the sexist title is paralleled by racist language in the sections that I remembered. (In all fairness to my former teacher, I'll add that I believe that aspect of his writing to be a reflection of the standards during the time he wrote this book). The preceding 3 paragraphs in the book are relevant to his point but the potentially offensive content is very noticable there so I'll just share this one paragraph: "Grant that the Arabs channeled their esthetic talents into words; grant their unique susceptibility [sic.] to the language they developed; grant finally that no one else has played on Arabic's deep-toned instrument with Muhammed's power, and we can begin to appreciate the insistence of many Muslims that the Koran cannot be translated. While Christian Bible Societies have been busy translating God's Word into every known tongue, Muslims have turned their primary efforts to teaching people of other tongues the language in which God spoke for all time with incomparable force and directness" (Smith, __Religions of Man__, 1986 reprint, p. 312). Could this explain why Voll decided to use the term, discourse-based, in reference to the Islamic world? I hope this is helpful to the current discussion. Bill Haller ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Bill Haller \/ University Center for Social Department of Sociology /\ and Urban Research (UCSUR) University of Pittsburgh \/ 121 University Place, 6th floor email: wxhst3+@pitt.edu.us /\ Pittsburgh, PA 15213-9972 ------------------------------------------------------------------- From mforstat@gettysburg.edu Thu Sep 22 18:25:52 MDT 1994 >From mforstat@gettysburg.edu Thu Sep 22 18:25:52 1994 Received: from popserver.jr.cc.gettysburg.edu (popserver.cc.gettysburg.edu [138.234.4.87]) by csf.Colorado.EDU (8.6.9/8.6.9/CNS-3.5) with SMTP id SAA18138 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 1994 18:25:51 -0600 From: mforstat@gettysburg.edu Received: from [138.234.5.237] (pgolfin.emac.cc.gettysburg.edu) by popserver.jr.cc.gettysburg.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA14828; Thu, 22 Sep 94 20:24:02 EDT Date: Thu, 22 Sep 94 20:24:01 EDT X-Sender: mforstat@popserver.cc.gettysburg.edu Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: wsn@csf.colorado.edu Subject: position- geog/econ/intern'l/africa *Position in Geography/Economics/International/Africa* Gettysburg College seeks an individual for a tenure track position in the Department of Economics. Duties include enthusiastic and effective teaching, commitment to a promising research agenda, and involvement in departmental and college governance. Candidates should have the Ph. D. or be nearing completion. Candidates must be prepared to teach two sections of Physical and Human Geography per year, as well as courses in International Economics/Finance and/or African/African American Economic History and Development. Good quantitative skills and knowledge of history of thought or heterodox theory are desirable. Gettysburg College, a four-year undergraduate liberal arts college, is located 80 miles northwest of Washington, DC, and 60 miles northwest of Baltimore, Maryland. As an equal opportunity/affirmative action employer, Gettysburg College actively seeks minority and female applicants. Representatives of the Economics Department will interview selected candidates at the January, 1995 ASSA meetings in Washington, DC. Review of applications will begin January, 15, 1995. Please send letter of application, curriculum vitae, and names of three references, at least one of whom can speak to the applicant's teaching ability to: Dr. Derrick K. Gondwe, Chair, Department of Economics, Box 391, Gettysburg College, Gettysburg, PA 17325. From U17043%UICVM.BITNET@vaxf.Colorado.EDU Fri Sep 23 21:41:35 MDT 1994 >From U17043@UICVM.CC.UIC.EDU Fri Sep 23 21:41:35 1994 Received: from vaxf.Colorado.EDU (vaxf.Colorado.EDU [128.138.129.9]) by csf.Colorado.EDU (8.6.9/8.6.9/CNS-3.5) with SMTP id VAA02544 for ; Fri, 23 Sep 1994 21:41:34 -0600 Received: from UICVM.CC.UIC.EDU (MAILER@UICVM) by VAXF.COLORADO.EDU (PMDF V4.2-12 #8140) id <01HHGT2AV1680005S8@VAXF.COLORADO.EDU>; Fri, 23 Sep 1994 21:41:21 MDT Received: from UICVM (NJE origin U17043@UICVM) by UICVM.CC.UIC.EDU (LMail V1.2a/1.8a) with BSMTP id 1200; Fri, 23 Sep 1994 22:37:10 -0500 Date: Fri, 23 Sep 1994 21:30:55 -0500 (CDT) From: "Daniel A. Foss" Subject: discourse vs ideology vs religion To: World Systems Network Message-id: <01HHGT2AV16A0005S8@VAXF.COLORADO.EDU> X-Envelope-to: wsn@CSF.COLORADO.EDU Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT [Please, though you have no good reason, be tolerant. This is my first effort] [at a Serious post on this list in many months. I've been mucking about with ] [rectifying the "circulationist" bias of W-S theory, and eg focusing upon the] [inadequately-considered, as I see it, intercivilizational-comparative study ] [of standards of living. Meaning, above all, food. ] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ I haven't read the Voll article, in large part because of its title, ie, purporting to characterize Islamic (or, following Hodgkin, "Islamicate") civilization as a "discourse-based world-system." What follows may accordingly be unfair in the particular instance, but points to a ghastly slovenliness in the overgeneralized usage of "discourse." The latter usage is not associated with any precise or memorizable definition. Its "historic" usage, that is, in the French gourmet theory whose practitioners may be credited with the ease of recognition and glamour it possesses, may be most closely rendered as: the specialized vocabulary, nomenclature, terminology, and tellingly meaningful jargon of a subculture, whereby that subculture is in large measure itself constituted. The discourse whereof "discourse" is or until recently was itself embedded also included now-familiar subculture-specific terms such as "gaze" (inferred from, or perhaps synonymous with, the "discourse" wherewith it is associated; cf also usages of *mentalite* in anthro-historical studies), and neologistic "archeologies"; the Foucauldian dialect, in other words. The Derridean dialect is richer if more diffuse: "decentered," where among the Californians decenter- ing a text is good and being a "centered person" is also good, "uni-" and "polyvocality," "logophallocentric," the reader may easily adduce many more at this time than I can (it's late, I'm tired, my books are a thousand miles away). A discourse was not, in the "pure" discourses of the Founding Fathers of this subcultural lingo (be it noted the white males in question are in growing numbers dead white males), an ideology itself; rather, it dovetailed with a more widespread condition generating mental structures as well as social structures and structures of power. **** Well-rested but with uneasy spirit, I suppose, that is, the following is sheer supposition, that the critical point in the descent of usages of "discourse" to polysemic diffuseness, thence inevitably to hyposemia (the state or condition of deficiency in meaning, meaning nothing, or worse) was the Gramsciization of poststructuralism. A subculture solidly, if suchlike diaphanous conceptualizations and usages may be characterized as possessing solidity, based in literary criticism, related fields of the humanities, and practitioners of social science yet to attain full respectability declared or styled itself a (or the) "counterhegemonic discourse." This may be accurately dated, should anyone wish to bother, by doing a content analysis of representa- tive, ie, poor-quality, texts circulated within the fantasy Left and counting the relative frequency of occurrences of "hidden agenda," a now-forgotten usage, and "subtext," its supplanter among the fashionably Paranoid. If there was to be a counterhegemonic discourse, then there most certainly, by crude, false analogy, the most effective form of mock-logic, a hegemonic discourse. The distinction between the latter and bourgeois ideology tout court is unclear, and getting unclearer, but well accords with the Tradition of the New. Perhaps, in these days of smart machines, it corresponds to the recogni- tion, in daily life, of the Fully-Axiomatic Self-Activating Self-Serving Rationalization, batteries not necessary, as comparably fashionable as the pop-up toaster. "The hegemonic discourse" is equivalent, more-or-lessly, to "commonsense," "the reality of everyday life" - cf Braudel, "The reality of a social order surrounds us like the air we breathe," with the Foss corrollary, "Should you, as in Los Angeles, be able to see the air, then something really stinks" - and "the selfevident, need I hafta say more." Yet it does exude the pizazz of authentically technical sociogibberish. Say that, on another list, there is an individual, Gerold F., who is employed, that is to say, generously remunerated by, Hewlett Packard Corporation at its Texas headquarters. Though he has never specified his educational credentials, span of managerial responsibility if any, or sources as to eg "human nature," obsolete sociobiology plus, latterly, Camille Paglia, he is accorded the legitimate right to speak out on any question of policy, foreign or domestic, with Authority, wherewith he propounds a psychologizing model of anything-and-everything: Rwandans should, for example, stop their External Blame, and Take Responsibility for their own Problems; if they'd been ruled by a racist-fascist quasi-totalitarian dictator- ship, this is noone's doing but their own. I couldn't resist, on the latter occasion, noting to the subscribers to the list in question that "what Gerold F. has just asserted is, technically, known as "the hegemonic discourse," roughly defined as the most vulgar level of commonsense, making no pretense to be other than the atheoretical blind preju- dice and sheer supposition that it is." The final stage of the debasement of the term "discourse" is its confounding with the entirety of the pervasive ideology, doctrinal (*doxa*) or heuristic inferential logic (*habitus*) alike, found in a civilizational area. Thuswise, bourgeois ideology becomes a "discourse," "Christendom" becomes a "discourse," "Islam" becomes a "discourse." This is going too far; this is off the wall; this is off the deep end. Before even venturing into the question of Islam qua religiopolitical, religiocultural, religioeconomic, whatever, soi-disant "discourse," let's take up Christendom, as analogous to Islam, and during the same period; see Judith Herrin, The Formation of Christendom, 1992[?]. As Steve Muhlberger noted that the notion of "discourse-based world-system" applied to "post-Abbasid" times, he may be alluding to the Abbasid Revolution of 747-750; else to the capture of Baghdad by Hulegu in 1258; else to epochal events in between such as the Buyid, then the Saljuk protectorates over the Caliphate, tenth and eleventh centuries. If, however, the critical period in the "Formation Of Christendom," dated as Late Antiquity, commencing with Diocletian (284-306); else with Constantine (choice of 306, proclaimed by the legions of Britain; 312, Milvian Bridge and Edict of Milan; 315, orthodoxy and heresy defined by law; 324, defeat of Licinius; 325, Nicaea; 330, foundation of Constantinople); else the Partition of Theodosius The Great (395); else the survival of the Eastern Empire under Zeno and Anastasius, 451-517; else the reign of Justinian, 527-565; else the assassination of Maurice, 602; else the overthrow of Phocas by Heraclius, 610: It becomes quite plausible, using the seventh-century benchmark, to fit the transition from the Christendom of Antiquity to a benchmark close to the lifespan of Muhammad (570-632) and the initial conquests of the caliphate (634-644). The Abbasid Revolution coincides precisely with the papal coronation of Pepin The Short; Charlemagne is coeval with Harun al-Rashid. The emergent point is, here, the nearly identical age and simultaneous emergence of the "rival civilizations," Christendom and dar-ul-Islam. We now take a hard look at the former. In the Western, Latin variant of Christendom, the state typically went into abeyance for decades or even centuries, giving way to feudal polities wherewith the reviving monarchical states contested sovereignty whilst posing as generalized guarantor of hereditary privilege. In the Eastern, Hellenophone variant, the central state apparatus persisted throughout, even carrying out a de facto social revolution by administrative fiat, given the annihilation of the urban ruling class, urban life in general, and a substantial percentage of the peasant masses in the Bubonic Plague which broke out in Constantinople in 542. This pandemic indeed swept Western Europe too, reaching England by 549; but its exogeneously induced labour shortage had greater impact upon technical dynamism than in the East. From this [slightly] greater [in degree] Latin-Western technical dynamism, albeit deficient in the patina of high culture and the forms of Serious Government, in counterposition to the Byzantine Greek haughtiness associated with their retention of the bureacratic state, the standing army, the court ceremonial, and the subservience of the Patriarchate of Constantinople to the political regime (something relegated to a figment in the Latin West during the seventh century, when from Pope Gregory The Great (590-604) onwards, in the absence of the Emperor to whose rule proper subjection might be proferred, were compelled to exercise autonomy, howevermuch against their visceral grain. With the brief Carolingian and Ottonian mirages over with, the emergent papal monarchy got the habit of ordering secular princes around insofar as this was feasible. By 1196, the Byzantines found the hordes of Crusading warriors led, if by anyone, at the behest of Pope Urban II, both horrible and incomprehensi- ble. Since 1054, moreover, the two Churches had been in schism. Differential development and divergent cultural change combined to divide the Christian Latin West from the Christian Greek East. In neither case was there a "discourse" in the orginal sense or usage of the poststructuralists; no standardized subculture with specialized vocabulary and structure of power prevailed in the West, even within the clergy and nobility as a whole, that is, taking in large regions of Europe. In the Greek East, the administration, both military and civilian, of the Byzantine state may provide material for discourse analysis, provided it be recognized that the static character of the Byzantine state is a retrospective illusion, with the ruling class at all times undergoing rapid change. Can we apply this rupturing of the bases for unified discourses to Islam? Surely. As the caliphate crumbled, the social-revolutionary Ismai'li Shi'a movement seized power in Ifriquiah (Tunisia) in 909; then, by carefully planned subversion by trained agitators (*da'is*, who called each other "comrade," says Hodgkin) from below, organized in a cell-structured revolutionary-conspirator- ial Party-structure, *al-Da'wa*, these alone initiated into the politico- theological intricacies of the revolutionaray-vanguard-elite-doctrine; by careful recruitment of talented members of the existing political regime in Egypt; and capitalizing to the utmost upon calamitous famines in Egypt and demoralization in the military, in 968 staged the first Vanguard Party-led revolution, nearly a thousand years prior to the independent invention of the same organizational-weapon technique attributed to Lenin, that is, the RSDRP(b), perhaps overcredited with the Russian Revolution of 1917. It should be noted, however, that the external military threat to the regime in Egypt which the Fatimids overthrew was supplied by themselves, not by a hostile major power which had already defeated the old regime prior to the revolution- ary offensive, as in 1917 Russia. The arcane and obscure gnostic theological doctrines of the Isma'ilis may properly be called a "discourse," in the original sense. The Twelver Shi'a Islam developing in Iran from Buyid times was so to a lesser extent perhaps. Persian emerged as a literary language alongside archaic Arabic. At this time, it is necessary to take very seriously Clifford Geertz' constrasts in styles and practices of Islam, Morocco vs Indonesia, perhaps. His point is that the identifiability of Moroccan Muslims by Indonesian Muslims as co-religionists is imaginary; both subscribe, in principle, to Islam, in some sense; and to the Indonesian the Moroccan's practices will cease to be acceptable should both be found in the same room, ie, in culture- contact. This piece has reached excessive length. I would insist that Voll's usages of "discourse" in the article in question be scrutinized again by, say, Steve Muhlberger, who may have suffered enough already, elsewise by someone else; and if it be demonstrated that Voll knows whereof he talks, I might even condescend to read the damned thing. With all the sanity in the world, I'd be turned into an intellectual cabbage by the undefined, ineffable, and whothehellcares-whattheymean neosociogibberish floating about these days. I say, take my hand, and I shall lead you to the opthalmic surgeon; though I myself am blind, figuratively. (Year or so ago, it was literally.) There are enough lacunae in our favourite school of theory without digging more pits and booby traps. Thank you. Daniel A. Foss From wxhst3+@pitt.edu Sat Sep 24 09:36:54 MDT 1994 >From wxhst3+@pitt.edu Sat Sep 24 09:36:53 1994 Received: from pop.pitt.edu (pop.pitt.edu [136.142.185.27]) by csf.Colorado.EDU (8.6.9/8.6.9/CNS-3.5) with SMTP id JAA12936 for ; Sat, 24 Sep 1994 09:36:53 -0600 Received: from unixs2.cis.pitt.edu by pop.pitt.edu with SMTP id AA12446 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4.5 for ); Sat, 24 Sep 1994 11:38:40 -0400 Date: Sat, 24 Sep 1994 11:38:39 -0400 (EDT) From: Bill Haller Subject: Re: discourse vs ideology vs religion To: "Daniel A. Foss" Cc: Multiple recipients of list In-Reply-To: <01HHGT2AV16A0005S8@VAXF.COLORADO.EDU> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII To everyone interested in this discussion: I think that in order assess whether Voll knows what he's talking about we do, indeed, have to delve into what is meant by "discourse" as it applies to his article. If someone else is willing to pursue the task that Dan Foss suggested (that "discourse" in the article in question be scrutinized again by, say, Steve Muhlberger, who may have suffered enough already, elsewise by someone else), I would be happy to speak with one or more of the numerous Muslims from various parts of the world living here in Pittsburgh to try to assess what "discourse" might actually mean in terms of Islam. I think also that it would also be beneficial for us all if anyone following this discussion who is fluent in the intricacies of the meaning of "discourse" among the specialists, and who is gifted enough to express the basic concepts in easily digestable English, to share that with us as well. Then perhaps we can draw some conclusions about Voll's use of the term "discourse" vis-a-vis current sociological thought, in relation to whatever "discourse" probably means (or the breadth of variation in meaning it may have or have had) in terms of Islam, and possibly even about the applicability of current sociological thought on "discourse" (or to what "discourse" may mean, or is likely to mean) in terms of Islam. That might put us in a better position to evaluate Voll's work. I hereby promise to read the article and check into "discourse" with regard to Islam if there are any other volunteers for checking into "discourse" as far as Voll's usageor current sociological thought is concerned. Any takers? (Of course, if there are any Muslims among you who could help clarify the matter I'm raising about the possible differences of the meaning of "discourse" in terms of Islam, current sociological thought, and how both may apply to Voll's article, please step in and share your thoughts; particularly, if I'm way off-base in even raising the question I'd like to know). ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Bill Haller \/ University Center for Social Department of Sociology /\ and Urban Research (UCSUR) University of Pittsburgh \/ 121 University Place, 6th floor email: wxhst3+@pitt.edu.us /\ Pittsburgh, PA 15213-9972 ------------------------------------------------------------------- From STEVEM@EINSTEIN.UNIPISSING.CA Sat Sep 24 11:33:56 MDT 1994 >From STEVEM@EINSTEIN.UNIPISSING.CA Sat Sep 24 11:33:55 1994 Received: from dns1.unipissing.ca (dns2.unipissing.ca [192.197.167.65]) by csf.Colorado.EDU (8.6.9/8.6.9/CNS-3.5) with SMTP id LAA15426 for ; Sat, 24 Sep 1994 11:33:54 -0600 Received: from smtpgate.unipissing.ca by dns1.unipissing.ca (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA07273; Sat, 24 Sep 1994 13:26:00 -0400 Received: by smtpgate.unipissing.ca with Microsoft Mail id <2E848D79@smtpgate.unipissing.ca>; Sat, 24 Sep 94 13:35:05 PDT From: Steve Muhlberger To: "WSN (World systems)" Subject: Discourse Date: Sat, 24 Sep 94 13:33:00 PDT Message-Id: <2E848D79@smtpgate.unipissing.ca> Encoding: 9 TEXT X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 I am glad this discussion has gone beyond my griping, which though satisfying in a minor way, doesn't do that much even for me. I don't think that I am the person to look into technical meanings of "discourse." I'm hoping that someone else, who has more of a commitment to these theoretical matters, will do the job. Steve Muhlberger From CHRISCD@JHUVM.HCF.JHU.EDU Tue Sep 27 09:21:42 MDT 1994 >From CHRISCD@JHUVM.HCF.JHU.EDU Tue Sep 27 09:21:41 1994 Received: from JHUVM.HCF.JHU.EDU (jhuvm.hcf.jhu.edu [128.220.2.2]) by csf.Colorado.EDU (8.6.9/8.6.9/CNS-3.5) with SMTP id JAA07264 for ; Tue, 27 Sep 1994 09:21:40 -0600 Message-Id: <199409271521.JAA07264@csf.Colorado.EDU> Received: from JHUVM.HCF.JHU.EDU by JHUVM.HCF.JHU.EDU (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with BSMTP id 1392; Tue, 27 Sep 94 11:24:57 EDT Received: from JHUVM (NJE origin CHRISCD@JHUVM) by JHUVM.HCF.JHU.EDU (LMail V1.2a/1.8a) with BSMTP id 1391; Tue, 27 Sep 1994 11:24:56 -0400 Date: Tue, 27 Sep 94 11:24:39 EDT From: CHRISCD@JHUVM.HCF.JHU.EDU To: wsn@CSF.COLORADO.EDU 7th CONFERENCE OF NORTH AMERICAN AND CUBAN PHILOSOPHERS AND SOCIAL SCIENTISTS Havana, Cuba, June 9-23, 1995. CALL FOR PAPERS; AN INVITATION TO PARTICIPATE North American philosophers and social scientists as well as social change activists are invited to participate along with Cuban counterparts in this annual event in Havana, Cuba. In past years as many as 75 North Americans have joined with 140 Cubans for a week of discussions, followed by another week of visits to various organizations and sites of interest. The 7th conference will take place at the University of Havana from June 12-16. CALL FOR PAPERS: Commissions are being organized on the following thematic areas: RENOVATION OF MARXISM; GLOBAL ECONOMY & GLOBAL CAPITALISM; MODELS OF SOCIALISM; CONSTRUCTION OF SOCIALISM/ PROBLEMS OF SOCIALISM; DEMOCRACY AND SOCIAL JUSTICE; POST-MODERNISM & MARXISM; EPISTEMOLOGY AND METHODOLOGY; ETHICS AND SOCIETY; EDUCATION AND SOCIETY; LITERATURE & POPULAR CULTURE; SCIENCE, TECHNOLOGY AND ECOLOGY; IDENTITY AND CULTURE; CLASS, RACE, GENDER AND SEXUALITY; SOCIAL POLICY; U.S. RELATIONS WITH CUBA & LATIN AMERICA; ANALYSIS OF CAPITALISM; POLITICAL ECONOMIC THEORY; and REVOLUTIONARY THINKERS. We are looking for papers and Commission organizers in these and other areas. Papers should be no more than 8 pages long so as to maximize discussion time at the conference. Commission proposals and paper abstracts are due January 23, 1995 with completed papers due March 1, 1995. As opportunities for oral presentation are limited, priority consideration will be given early applicants. Following the conference in Havana, a select group will carry the conference to other parts of Cuba. This will enable you to see more of the country: Matanzas, June 19-21; Camaguey, June 19-22; Holguin, June 23-27. COST: Approximately $900 for a basic 14 day stay in Havana at University accomodations, all group activities included from Miami departure to Miami return. There will be some additional cost for transportation outside of Havana. Some scholarship assistance may be available for those with limited means. DEADLINES: January 23, 1995: abstracts for papers & proposals for commissions (1-2 pages) March 1, 1995: completed papers (8 pages max.) April 1, 1995: completed application. For additional information or to request application materials, write Cliff DuRand, 1443 Gorsuch Ave., Baltimore MD 21218 phone 410-243-3118, FAX 410-235-5325 e-mail: DURAND@MORGANVX.BITNET From Dale.Wimberley@vt.edu Tue Sep 27 09:37:28 MDT 1994 >From Dale.Wimberley@vt.edu Tue Sep 27 09:37:27 1994 Received: from vtucs.cc.vt.edu (mail.bev.net [128.173.4.72]) by csf.Colorado.EDU (8.6.9/8.6.9/CNS-3.5) with SMTP id JAA08088 for ; Tue, 27 Sep 1994 09:37:26 -0600 Received: from [128.173.43.225] by vtucs.cc.vt.edu with SMTP (1.37.109.8/16.2) id AA27589; Tue, 27 Sep 1994 11:39:17 -0400 X-Sender: wimberly@mail.vt.edu Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 27 Sep 1994 11:39:32 -0500 To: World-System Network From: Dale.Wimberley@vt.edu (Dale W. Wimberley) Subject: Last call! PEWS needs more members for 1994 As Chris noted last month, the Section on the Political Economy of the World-System (PEWS) of the ASA needs to have 400 members on the books at the end of September 30 -- this Friday -- to have a third session scheduled at the 1995 ASA meetings. An up-to-the-minute membership count is not available, but I received word yesterday that ASA's Sept. 15 tally for PEWS was only 371. We need you! Student members of ASA can join PEWS for $5.00, and FACULTY CAN PAY FOR STUDENTS' PEWS MEMBERSHIPS. A lot of us have done this in the past; it is a good way to get students involved in world-system issues and in their discipline more generally. If you are faculty, I urge you to do this now if you haven't already for 1994! If you are faculty and a member of ASA, you can join for $10. Low-income ASA members (under $15,000 a year, as checked on your 1994 ASA membership application) can join PEWS for $8. Fax PEWS membership applications to ASA at (202) 785-0146 to the attention of ELIZABETH CZEPIEL, Section Coordinator (put her name on each page in case some pages get out of order). State that the listed individuals wish to join the Section on Political Economy of the World-System. They must be current ASA members to join PEWS (for ASA membership applications, see the end of this message). You must include in the fax: 1. Name, address, and membership classification (student, regular, regular/low-income, etc.) of each person 2. Total amount due 3. Name of the credit card holder paying for it 4. Indicate Visa or Mastercard; give card number, expiration date, and signature authorizing payment This must be received at ASA no later than Friday, September 30. If you are close enough to Washington that you can trust using snail-mail, the address is: Section Coordinator ASA 1722 N Street, NW Washington, DC 20036 (checks payable to ASA) For those not members of ASA, contact Sulu Ghoting, ASA Membership Dept., (202) 833-3410 extension 326 or at the above address, to fax or mail you an application form. Membership for students is $32 for 1994. (You might be amazed how many Soc grad students are not members!) Indicate that the application is for the 1994 year if this is what is desired. This application can be sent in with the PEWS section application. Dale W. Wimberley PEWS Secretary-Treasurer From INTT@MUSICB.MCGILL.CA Wed Sep 28 06:14:32 MDT 1994 >From INTT@MUSICB.MCGILL.CA Wed Sep 28 06:14:32 1994 Received: from vaxf.Colorado.EDU (vaxf.Colorado.EDU [128.138.129.9]) by csf.Colorado.EDU (8.6.9/8.6.9/CNS-3.5) with SMTP id GAA05853 for ; Wed, 28 Sep 1994 06:14:31 -0600 Received: from VM1.MCGILL.CA (MAILER@MCGILL1) by VAXF.COLORADO.EDU (PMDF V4.2-12 #8140) id <01HHMW7KZDLS000MLN@VAXF.COLORADO.EDU>; Wed, 28 Sep 1994 06:15:52 MDT Received: from MUSICB.MCGILL.CA by VM1.MCGILL.CA (Mailer R2.10 ptf000) with BSMTP id 7044; Wed, 28 Sep 94 08:15:21 EDT Date: Wed, 28 Sep 1994 08:15:15 -0400 (EDT) From: INTT000 Subject: RE: PEWS membership call To: wsn@csf.colorado.edu Message-id: <28SEP94.08914692.0070.MUSIC@MUSICB.MCGILL.CA> X-Envelope-to: wsn@csf.colorado.edu Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT This is a response to Dale Wimberley's call for more members of the PEWS. Maybe PEWS organizers should ask ASA to reconsider "the 400" rule. As I recall a large proportion of participants at the PEWS meetings at Irvine California were from outside of U.S. Correct me if I'm wrong. Accordin to ASA rules, foreign participants need not to be ASA members to participate its meetings. I know there are a lot of people in developing countries who are interested in WS research. Should they be given a chance? Besides I don't understand the ASA's practice of holding its annual meetings in luxurious hotels. Maybe they should consider the Canadian Learned Society's practice of holding meetings on university campus, which benefits both participants and universities. Tieting Su Department of Sociology McGill University Montreal, Canada From INTT@MUSICB.MCGILL.CA Thu Sep 29 13:29:48 MDT 1994 >From INTT@MUSICB.MCGILL.CA Thu Sep 29 13:29:47 1994 Received: from vaxf.Colorado.EDU (vaxf.Colorado.EDU [128.138.129.9]) by csf.Colorado.EDU (8.6.9/8.6.9/CNS-3.5) with SMTP id NAA00975 for ; Thu, 29 Sep 1994 13:29:47 -0600 Received: from VM1.MCGILL.CA (MAILER@MCGILL1) by VAXF.COLORADO.EDU (PMDF V4.2-12 #8140) id <01HHOPO3I2O0001V7S@VAXF.COLORADO.EDU>; Thu, 29 Sep 1994 13:30:44 MDT Received: from MUSICB.MCGILL.CA by VM1.MCGILL.CA (Mailer R2.10 ptf000) with BSMTP id 7136; Thu, 29 Sep 94 15:30:01 EDT Date: Thu, 29 Sep 1994 15:28:46 -0400 (EDT) From: INTT000 Subject: ASA meetings To: wsn@csf.colorado.edu Message-id: <29SEP94.16718135.0110.MUSIC@MUSICB.MCGILL.CA> X-Envelope-to: wsn@csf.colorado.edu Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT With regard to the question of feasibility of holding ASA meetings on campus, I have some immature thoughts I'd like to share with netters so that better ideas may come up. 1. Is it possible to have large conferences on campus? If a large university campus can accommodate thousands of students, (if not tens of thousands) I don't see any reason why it can't host 3000-4000 conference participants with careful planning of the use of available facilities. For example, UMass. Amherst, where I got my degree, has facilities for at least 20,000 students. Can the facilities be altered slightly to accommodate conference participants, like the Canadian Learned Society has been doing all these years? It has, on an average conference day, about 3000 participants. 2. Specifics a. Bedding In my opinion, this is probably the most difficult task. I suggest two options. Option 1: ask participants to bring their own blankets, etc. Of course not all of them are willing to do that. But don't rule out the possibility that many may do, especially the low income strata. Option 2: invite bidding. This way the supply can start at a low price and when the conference is finished, all the bedding can be shipped to the next conference site at a discount price. They can last for several years. For those who prefer luxurious hotels, they are usually available. b. Transportation I see this as a lesser problem. If a local public transit system can transport tens of thousands of students, it should be able to do the same for 3000-4000 participants. The same is true with conference rooms, overhead projectors, etc. c. Food Existing facilities should be able to meet needs of participants. Coupons could be provided to low income participants like what David Smith and Jozsef Borocz did in organizing the last PEWS meeting. To increase variety, local restaurants could be invited to have something like the "International Food Festival" held annually in Montreal (among its many summer festivals.) d. Entertainment Participatory and creative entertainment activities should be encouraged, such as crafts, sports, folk art, folk music, kite flying, chess, go, folk dance, inventions, software, etc., etc. Many children in developing countries can not afford to buy toys. But that does not prevent them from creating their own toys and games. e. Financing (1) With careful budgeting, the "conference economy" could be self sufficient. Even with a surplus. If there's a surplus, it should be shared by ASA (a democratic organization) and the host. (2) Invite big business to come to advertise their products and charge them commercial rates. (Don't raise money from them, make money from them.) I especially would like to see tobacco companies come as they may grab the opportunity which becomes more and more rare for them in North America. They should not be invited as "sponsors". Just give them a place and charge them. Participants may be outraged by this "commercial" intrusion. Wouldn't that be nice. Again, these are just some immature thoughts which are intended to invite better ideas. And I think the Canadian experience should be studied. Tieting Su Department of Sociology McGill University Montreal, Canada From STEVEM@EINSTEIN.UNIPISSING.CA Thu Sep 29 14:04:25 MDT 1994 >From STEVEM@EINSTEIN.UNIPISSING.CA Thu Sep 29 14:04:24 1994 Received: from dns1.unipissing.ca (dns2.unipissing.ca [192.197.167.65]) by csf.Colorado.EDU (8.6.9/8.6.9/CNS-3.5) with SMTP id OAA02134 for ; Thu, 29 Sep 1994 14:04:23 -0600 Received: from smtpgate.unipissing.ca by dns1.unipissing.ca (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA07996; Thu, 29 Sep 1994 15:56:32 -0400 Received: by smtpgate.unipissing.ca with Microsoft Mail id <2E8B4843@smtpgate.unipissing.ca>; Thu, 29 Sep 94 16:05:39 PDT From: Steve Muhlberger To: "WSN (World systems)" Subject: Conferences on campus Date: Thu, 29 Sep 94 16:05:00 PDT Message-Id: <2E8B4843@smtpgate.unipissing.ca> Encoding: 22 TEXT X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 There are many large conferences on campuses already. Many universities are glad to gear up their facilities at times of the year when they are underused and rent them out for a profit. An excellent example is the International Congress of Medieval Studies, which has been hosted at Western Michigan University in Kalamazoo for about 30 years. There were only a few dozen attendees at first, but now there are hundreds of sessions and thousands of people every year. The food and accommodations are rather spartan for many peoples' taste, but they are very cheap compared to hotel-based conferences, and this makes it possible for the lazy, dedicated or car-less to stay at the conference site for the whole four days. Also, the cost for the basic package (registration, food, accommodation) is considerably less than $500 US. The conference is also a lot of fun, with lots of opportunities for people to organize sessions on topics of the greatest obscurity or ambition. Steve Muhlberger From Edward.V.Miller@um.cc.umich.edu Thu Sep 29 17:58:34 MDT 1994 >From Edward.V.Miller@um.cc.umich.edu Thu Sep 29 17:58:33 1994 Received: from runningman.rs.itd.umich.edu (runningman.rs.itd.umich.edu [141.211.144.15]) by csf.Colorado.EDU (8.6.9/8.6.9/CNS-3.5) with ESMTP id RAA10165 for ; Thu, 29 Sep 1994 17:58:33 -0600 From: Edward.V.Miller@um.cc.umich.edu Received: from um.cc.umich.edu by runningman.rs.itd.umich.edu (8.6.9/2.25) with SMTP id UAA14864; Thu, 29 Sep 1994 20:00:29 -0400 Date: Thu, 29 Sep 94 19:58:12 EDT To: wsn@csf.colorado.edu Message-ID: <39156409@um.cc.umich.edu> X-MTS-Userid: RC9L Subject: conferences on campus even if asa continues to hold its conferences in large hotels does that mean that sections can't bow out and arrange to have their talks at a nearby university? it can still be relatively cheap for people to attend annual meetings, if they want a little hassle. i attended the asa conference in miami, stayed in a youth hostel in the art deco district for abot $10 per day & used public transportation to get to the fountainebleu. and since i was living in the art deco district, a sociological experience in itself, i didn't have to pay extra for the asa sponsored tour. From Dale.Wimberley@vt.edu Fri Sep 30 10:16:50 MDT 1994 >From Dale.Wimberley@vt.edu Fri Sep 30 10:16:49 1994 Received: from vtucs.cc.vt.edu (mail.bev.net [128.173.4.72]) by csf.Colorado.EDU (8.6.9/8.6.9/CNS-3.5) with SMTP id KAA26591 for ; Fri, 30 Sep 1994 10:16:48 -0600 Received: from [128.173.43.225] by vtucs.cc.vt.edu with SMTP (1.37.109.8/16.2) id AA18928; Fri, 30 Sep 1994 12:18:39 -0400 X-Sender: wimberly@mail.vt.edu Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 30 Sep 1994 12:19:02 -0500 To: World-System Network From: Dale.Wimberley@vt.edu (Dale W. Wimberley) Subject: Conferences on campus The meeting of the International Rural Sociological Association on Penn State's campus a couple of years ago worked quite well. The lower costs of lodging and food were a relief, and we didn't lack for anything that we really needed. The World Congresses of Sociology also typically meet on campuses (e.g., Bielefeld, Madrid) tho lodging was hotel-based in those two meetings -- local (and sometimes not so local!) transportation becomes a bigger issue, as participants at Bielefeld can attest! Campus-based conferences are an attractive idea, especially in these days of short funds on our HOME campuses. I think conferences are getting progressively more difficult for a lot of us in the _US_ to afford. Note new e-mail address: Dale.Wimberley@vt.edu. Dale W. Wimberley Department of Sociology Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University